What House is My Mercury In?

Pisces13

Banned
My mercury is less than 1 degree from the 8th house and had I been born 3-4 minutes earlier (maybe even a bit less) it would have been in the 8th house. Some online chart interpretations have said it's in the 8th house since it's less than 1 degree away while others have said it's in the 7th house because that's what it technically falls under (not to mention that a lot of people don't believe in "cusps"--as in they believe you're either one or the other, and the one that you look at is exactly what the chart shows).

I'm guessing it's in the 7th house because my birth time is accurate and it is technically in the 7th, so I guess that's right. But I've heard if it's less than a certain amount of degrees you attribute it as being in the next house. Would professional astrology say it's in the 8th because of that, or should I continue acknowledging it as in the 7th house because, again, that's where it *technically* is and if I were meant to be an 8th house Mercury person I would have been born those few minutes earlier?
 

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sibylline

Well-known member
I'd say 8th house. It's literally hugging the 8th cusp. Most astrologers would consider it 8th or at least in both houses.

And we have the same Sun, Moon, and Ascendant signs. Hello, friend. :) I have Mercury solidly in the 7th so if you're on the fence about it, we could compare notes.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My mercury is less than 1 degree from the 8th house
and had I been born 3-4 minutes earlier (maybe even a bit less) it would have been in the 8th house.
Some online chart interpretations have said it's in the 8th house since it's less than 1 degree away
while others have said it's in the 7th house because that's what it technically falls under
(not to mention that a lot of people don't believe in "cusps"
--as in they believe you're either one or the other,
and the one that you look at is exactly what the chart shows).

I'm guessing it's in the 7th house
because my birth time is accurate and it is technically in the 7th,
so I guess that's right.
But I've heard if it's less than a certain amount of degrees you attribute it as being in the next house.
Would professional astrology say it's in the 8th because of that,
or should I continue acknowledging it as in the 7th house because, again, that's where it *technically*
is and if I were meant to be an 8th house Mercury person I would have been born those few minutes earlier?
Fact is, the house location of a natal planet can change,
dependent on the house system chosen
easily verify that at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
there, fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use are available options
Placidus is simply the default
to view for yourself how that works in practice
simply create two versions of your natal chart

one using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES option
and another using the Placidus houses option

EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html


QUOTE

'..There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries
so that in effect there were no real houses as we know them today....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed or confused
as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites were definite power points or areas of intense focus
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant....'


'...Whole Sign House system, where the ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow
and the Ascendant point can then fall anywhere in the first house
and the midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart
was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus(who still use it today).
It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence
and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so....' :smile:


WHOLE SIGNS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42163
WHOLE SIGN OR PLACIDUS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39669



 

katydid

Well-known member
I'd read it as an 8th house placement too. I take into account that by progression and Solar Arc, your Mercury moved into the 8th when you were a toddler. It works effectively as an 8th house planet, in my opinion.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I'd read it as an 8th house placement too. I take into account that by progression and Solar Arc, your Mercury moved into the 8th when you were a toddler. It works effectively as an 8th house planet, in my opinion.

By progression, her Mercury would've moved farther into the seventh, not into the eighth, because it was retrograde when she was born. Only after turning direct would her progressed Mercury move toward the eighth. IMO, that's a stronger argument for a seventh house Mercury.

When a planet is straddling a house cusp--or when it's in one house by one system and another house by another, which this Mercury would be--at the very least, it's in the eighth house whole sign--I would look at both houses and especially consider where their meanings overlap. The seventh and eighth houses both have to do with intimacy, partnership, self in relation to other, and other people in your life.

I would say the seventh house deals more with the nuts and bolts of partnership--marriage, business partners, contracts, rights and responsibilities spelled out, clearly defined relationships. Eighth has more to do with the undercurrents of relationships: intimacy, shared resources, personal and/or sexual chemistry, social taboos and archetypes, that kind of thing. Seventh house is the part of the relationship that's visible to others and verbally defined; eighth house is the part that's more sensed than seen.

Since your Mercury is straddling those houses, its arena is in that overlapping area.
 

Pisces13

Banned
By progression, her Mercury would've moved farther into the seventh, not into the eighth, because it was retrograde when she was born. Only after turning direct would her progressed Mercury move toward the eighth. IMO, that's a stronger argument for a seventh house Mercury.

When a planet is straddling a house cusp--or when it's in one house by one system and another house by another, which this Mercury would be--at the very least, it's in the eighth house whole sign--I would look at both houses and especially consider where their meanings overlap. The seventh and eighth houses both have to do with intimacy, partnership, self in relation to other, and other people in your life.

I would say the seventh house deals more with the nuts and bolts of partnership--marriage, business partners, contracts, rights and responsibilities spelled out, clearly defined relationships. Eighth has more to do with the undercurrents of relationships: intimacy, shared resources, personal and/or sexual chemistry, social taboos and archetypes, that kind of thing. Seventh house is the part of the relationship that's visible to others and verbally defined; eighth house is the part that's more sensed than seen.

Since your Mercury is straddling those houses, its arena is in that overlapping area.

First of all, thank you to everyone who replied!

Osamenor--I see what you're saying about the mercury retrograde and I have a follow-up question...My mercury went direct when I was around 9 years old or so (although I still express myself better via writing rather than verbally). Would it going direct when I was 9 make it an 8th house mercury now that I'm in my 20s?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Progression is just a layer on top of your natal chart. It doesn't change the original chart. Mercury being definitively in your eighth house by progression puts a layer of eighth house meaning over the borderland meaning of natal Mercury, but your natal Mercury is still on the border and always will be.

Since your chart doesn't include your exact birthdate, I can't say for sure when this will happen, but your progressed Mercury will transit to Aries at some point. Based on the degree of your natal sun (which narrows down your birthdate to a few days' window, at the level I know) and tables from that year, that transit will probably happen when you're in your early thirties.

At that time, you might find yourself more driven to express yourself directly, maybe even forcefully, maybe more impulsive about speaking up--but your basic communication style will still have the traits of a retrograde Mercury in Pisces: intuitive, probably not that detail oriented, probably more of a listener than a talker, maybe deeply creative and seeing things on a deeper level. Most likely, what you say (whether it's by speaking or writing or non-verbal communication) will be based on that intuitive and non-linear perspective, but how you say it will be more Aries direct.

Something similar would be happening with the progressed house placement of your Mercury. Right now, how you live out the "Mercury" part of you may be more eighth house, but there's still, probably, some emphasis on the relationship/partnership aspect of the eighth house, more so than on the other things the eighth house stands for. However, you also have the natal sun in the eighth, which would make the eighth house extra strong for you right there.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
My mercury is less than 1 degree from the 8th house and had I been born 3-4 minutes earlier (maybe even a bit less) it would have been in the 8th house. Some online chart interpretations have said it's in the 8th house since it's less than 1 degree away while others have said it's in the 7th house because that's what it technically falls under (not to mention that a lot of people don't believe in "cusps"--as in they believe you're either one or the other, and the one that you look at is exactly what the chart shows).

I'm guessing it's in the 7th house because my birth time is accurate and it is technically in the 7th, so I guess that's right. But I've heard if it's less than a certain amount of degrees you attribute it as being in the next house. Would professional astrology say it's in the 8th because of that, or should I continue acknowledging it as in the 7th house because, again, that's where it *technically* is and if I were meant to be an 8th house Mercury person I would have been born those few minutes earlier?

Hi Pisces13,

Regardless of which house Mercury is in, your Mercury is in the 8th sign (which is why I use Whole Sign houses for charts). Mercury is hindered by being in Pisces and is retrograde in a square to Sagittarius Moon. Well, upon further review, your Mercury is locked in a trine with Cancer Mars.

I'd guess that communication is not a problem for you.
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
Oh just put it in 7th. It gains dignity there :lol:


The 8th house seems to have stronger arguments though. Which one do you identify with the best?
 

Pisces13

Banned
Hi Pisces13,

Regardless of which house Mercury is in, your Mercury is in the 8th sign (which is why I use Whole Sign houses for charts). Mercury is hindered by being in Pisces and is retrograde in a square to Sagittarius Moon. Well, upon further review, your Mercury is locked in a trine with Cancer Mars.

I'd guess that communication is not a problem for you.

Oh I wouldn't say that! I can express myself very well in writing but (although I don't have social anxiety) I can't verbally speak up in class unless I'm just having a really good day and I avoid confrontation unless I know the person because verbally I just can't when it's someone im not familiar with--way to intimidated to stick up for myself even if I'm right--unless it's via text or something. I am venomous and offensive when I know the person or if I'm able to express my anger through writing somehow. Then I go for the jugular. Otherwise I'd guess people who don't know me or know me but not so well, I'd guess they'd say I'm a bit quiet. I don't know what house that's fits. It may just be because I'm a pisces and my Mercury is retrogrsde (pisces is introverted and retrograde Mercury expresses thoughts best through writing rather than verbally). So I'm not sure if that detail about me really helps clarify anything. But then by that logic since my Saturn is so close to the 6th/7th house cusp, i could say that my Saturn is in the 6th rather than 7th house (i mean if I'm already gonna say that Mercury is in the 8th), but i feel the Saturn in 7th so much more. So I guess I'll say my mercury is in the 7th house. If I won't "move" Saturn, it wouldn't be logical to move Mercury either.
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
I am venomous and offensive when I know the person or if I'm able to express my anger through writing somehow. Then I go for the jugular.

That sounds more like a reflection of your Mars placement than your Mercury. Mars placement shows how and when we are likely to fight. Mars in Cancer = need for familiarity, probably more likely to express anger with family members and with people who are familiar enough to resonate like family.

But, since your Mars and Mercury are trine, they would team up on everything. What feeds one feeds the other, and what sets off one sets off the other.
 

Pisces13

Banned
Oh just put it in 7th. It gains dignity there :lol:


The 8th house seems to have stronger arguments though. Which one do you identify with the best?

I have very strong arguments and go to the core of things--im not proud of this and it takes a lot to anger me (either pent up anger or one sore spot) and when I'm off I go for the worst thing I can possibly say--I regret it later usually but yeah. I'm temperamental and go for what causes most psychological or emotional pain. I can do this better through text or FaceBook message because I can't in person. Not at all. Way too intimidated for that. Unless I know the person well. But I never provoke first because Im generally sociable and enjoy people and overall I just don't like drama as it stresses me. It just infuriates me if someone is in the wrong about something and is getting too upitty and rude with me for no reason (let's say a catty girl that just doesn't like me even though we've never spoken). I cant say anything at all in person. I'm so weak in person. I'd be too afraid it'll stArt a physical fight and frankly I don't do that trashy mess and I refuse to dirty up my record. If its through social media or text, I'll win--I guarantee it. I've never been confrontational as a person though so this stuff is hypothetical. I don't engage in that childish mess or associate with people who would. I'm just saying, if it came down to it, verbally I'd lose. I'd shy away and look weak. Can't stick up for myself and won't. Let me write it out though? I'll come out on top and I'll use anything even if it hurts me to say it. Am I proud of that? No. It's just my temper. It sounds 8th housy...but I'm also an 8th house sun. So who knows where that comes from? I use the placidus system. It says 7th house...I can see that too. I'm generally diplomatic and can see all sides of an argument even if I don't agree. At the same time im very opinionated.
 

Pisces13

Banned
That sounds more like a reflection of your Mars placement than your Mercury. Mars placement shows how and when we are likely to fight. Mars in Cancer = need for familiarity, probably more likely to express anger with family members and with people who are familiar enough to resonate like family.

But, since your Mars and Mercury are trine, they would team up on everything. What feeds one feeds the other, and what sets off one sets off the other.

Pretty much! When I know you, I know our verbal spat won't get trashy and physical. It won't get unnecessarily illegal. If I don't know you or your temperament, I certainly won't test it. Interesting. What in my chart suggests that I'm easily intimidated? I always think it's because I'm a Pisces. I withdraw and let people dominate even though on the inside I crave the power (sun trine pluto and leo rising). One wouldn't expect being easily intimidated or anything from a leo rising, but I am.
 

Pisces13

Banned
Guys--would a natal retrograde Mercury persons "mars trine Mercury" be different from someone with direct natal Mercury? (Suppose all other signs, houses, and aspects are identical.) Does it, for example, make any sense for me to look up "Venus square Uranus" and read the descriptions and apply them to myself if my natal venus is retrograde. I mean, those descriptions probably assume the readers Venus is direct. Would it (generally speaking of course) have the same outcome?
 

Pisces13

Banned
I agree and that is why I prefer the Whole Sign house system. It is unambiguous!

I like whole sign, but I'm so used to placidus. Furthermore, whole sign puts my chiron in the 1st house as opposed to 12th, but I really do have a suuuuper deep compassion for other people's suffering and kids especially (chiron in leo). But as with most things, that could also be my pisces sun and Leo rising. Chiron in the first makes sense in some ways yes...it's so confusing. I wish there was just one house system. Ughh. It also changes my moon and north nkde from the 4th house to the 5th house and yet I'm such a homebody (I don't want to be though, I have wander-lust, yet I'm so comfortable in my own sanctuary--im a walking contradiction). And my mom and I are close. Don't always see eye to eye but we are close. So again, it's confusing. At times it seems like the placidus fits and now it seems like in some ways whole sign fits. It's seriously things like this that made me doubt astrology for a long time. It's so, "oh that didn't work, let's try some other house system and see how that fits." Which made me think, "how convenient, there's a remedy for everything that doesn't work..." I don't know what to believe! Blaaaaahhhh. Why is the house system stuff so confusing? I'm not even sure how Mars in the 12th (via whole sign) fits? Or how Uranus and Neptune in the 6th instead of 5th (as with placidus) makes sense...I don't know how to pick between the two house systems...
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
Guys--would a natal retrograde Mercury persons "mars trine Mercury" be different from someone with direct natal Mercury? (Suppose all other signs, houses, and aspects are identical.) Does it, for example, make any sense for me to look up "Venus square Uranus" and read the descriptions and apply them to myself if my natal venus is retrograde. I mean, those descriptions probably assume the readers Venus is direct. Would it (generally speaking of course) have the same outcome?
Every person is unique, and every chart is unique. "Venus square Uranus" descriptions might apply to you, or might not apply because the cookbook astrology description doesn't take into account other chart factors that are heavily relevant--your sun and moon placements, your rising sign, your angular planet(s), for instance.

If a planet is retrograde, it's stronger in one way--it has a chance to develop its unique characteristics without interference from the outside world--but the outward expression of it may be weaker.

The basic meanings of aspects hold up, though. Mars trine Mercury means your Mars and Mercury work together in everything. Your Mercury being retrograde doesn't change that. All it does is give Mercury a retrograde kind of expression for you. It still teams up just as well with that Mars in Cancer.

What in my chart suggests that I'm easily intimidated? I always think it's because I'm a Pisces. I withdraw and let people dominate even though on the inside I crave the power (sun trine pluto and leo rising). One wouldn't expect being easily intimidated or anything from a leo rising, but I am.

Being easily intimidated is not a permanent trait. If you were fully in your power and aware of it, you would not be easily intimidated. What the chart shows is what's likely to happen if you are not fully in your power, and what could shift to get you in your power.

Much of your chart suggests sensitivity. Sensitive people are more likely to be intimidated, because they perceive everything so strongly. A less sensitive person might not feel threatened or need to withdraw so quickly, but for a sensitive person, that's a survival instinct.

Pisces is well known for being a sensitive sign, and also for finding its strength in adaptability. Pisces can easily become whatever is needed, wear many faces, be what others expect. The key is not to mistake those put-on faces for your real self. A healthy Pisces self would be able to maintain uniqueness and strength while being adaptable. Like a willow tree, which doesn't break in wind or water because it bends.

Leo is sensitive the way a cat is sensitive. Well attuned to the attentions of others, well attuned to social expectations. Put Leo rising on top of a sensitive Pisces sun, and it's a recipe for sensitivity. Think of cats: some cats pursue a strategy of approaching everyone and asking for attention, while others pursue a strategy of run and hide, and only come out when the familiar person is present. With an overall sensitive chart, Leo rising is more likely to be a shy kitty, ready to bolt at the first hint of danger. On top of that, Chiron is near your AC, which adds vulnerability to your persona.

Those factors alone would make you quite sensitive. Add two retrograde personal planets, one of them in Pisces, and a fourth house moon, and the usually not-sensitive Mars placed in sensitive Cancer, and it makes sense that you're very sensitive, and probably especially sensitive to the expectations of others (whether actual or perceived).

What you could ultimately become is a woman in your power. No less sensitive, but secure enough in your own power to not be intimidated easily. That will probably take many years of growth. But you do have some very powerful placements: people with eighth house suns are said to unconsciously radiate power, key Leo placements are power magnets; and Pluto not only trines your sun, it also squares your AC/DC, which is likely to make you seem powerful and/or intimidating to others--at least to certain others. All you have to do is grow into that.
 
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