preferred house system?

JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pisces13 said:
I generally use Placidus, not because I have a good reason to, but rather because it seems most websites use it by default--so I had always assumed that meant it was the best option. But it seems many astrologers use whole signs and equal signs as well. Googling "which house system is best" gives no helpful results as it seems most people say, "use whichever works best for you" which is not an answer at all, my Mercury, for example, and MC would change signs going from Placidus to whole signs, and I'd like to know which one I should use. Anyone have any straight answers? "Use whichever works best for you" is basically "Make up whatever makes you feel good" and I don't like that. As a beginner it is no help to me to play guessing games, when I'm trying to learn how to read my chart I prefer to be sure I'm not doing anything wrong--important planets moving houses between two systems can make a lot of difference in how I interpret aspects, progressions, etc.

What do most professional astrologers use and why?
Click to expand...
Professional astrologers all vary regarding their preferred house system
I'm no expert ~ my opinion is that Whole Sign Houses is good for determining the topic
i.e. each house has a topic or signification :smile:

house.jpg


Then ANY other house system determines planetary strength
i.e.
do ALL planets 'change houses' ?

in particular
are there any planets which remain angular (1st/4th/7th/10th houses)
irrespective of house system in use?

If a planet remains angular irrespective of house system used
then that planet is stronger than a planet that is angular in whole signs
but not angular in ANY of the other house system options
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
FURTHERMORE
Whole Signs was once utilised in an entirely different way
as dr. farr explains :smile:
dr. farr said:
Cusps:

Today
(and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point"
such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and
the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events,
the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:

in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-
that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries


Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method
(rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:

only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out,
I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pisces13 said:
Oy, if anything I now have more questions (you can see how new I am to this). :pinched:

If I want accuracy in reading my natal chart (for example if I'm reading the meaning of my Moon sign in it's placement/house or reading my Mercury and what it means in the particular house it's in, i.e.. Mercury in Pisces in the 8th) should I use whole signs then? Since you mentioned houses and cusps and whole signs being better at determining topics (and each house having a topic). Should I believe my Merc is in the 7th (like Placidus says) or 8th (like whole sign)? Should I believe my Moon is in the 4th (Placidus) or 5th (Whole sign).
It's very confusing. Why is placidus so popular?
Why did people change to that and it's pretty much the default if whole sign is the original?
Which on did William Lilly use?
Click to expand...
William Lilly used Regiomontanus Houses
because Regiomontanus Houses was the only one widely available at that time :smile:

That's why some horary astrologers insist on using Regiomontanus houses
but then other horary astrologers have different preferences
some astrologers use whole signs for horary
others use placidus for horary

Most are unaware that Placidus is simply the default on astro.com
and that there is a choice from fourteen house systems in all
it's simply a matter of a personal decision based on personal experience
there is no consensus
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pisces13 said:
It's confusing. To me anyway. Most things in Placidus fit me except my Mercury (this one is debatable though...my Sun in the 8th could be why I feel like my Merc could be in the 8th), and my Midheaven and Fortune (in Placidus they're in 9, which makes little to no sense to me as it doesn't much apply, but in whole sig they're in the 10th, which seems more me).

My Moon is in the 5th in Placidus (and I absolutely love fun and kids, but I also have Leo rising and Uranus and Neptune in the 5th, which are in the 6th in whole sign).

So I'm tore between the two. :/
Click to expand...
you say you are a beginner, there's no need to make hasty decisions
so take time to evaluate :smile:
 
U

urano

Well-known member
I am an amateur in Astrology therefore I can’t offer a professional advice, naturally.
I use Placidus by default (like many others maybe) rather than by conviction, but for the moment that is okay by me.

However I tried whole signs system for my natal chart and I have found this very relevant.
I specify that I have a little more than 40 years old, so there are things I already know about my life and personality. When we have about 20 to have a large perspective is more difficult (I don’t do ageism, I specify it because in a thread a member complained about that :biggrin: ).
Therefore I am very tempted to use whole signs system, but without dropping Placidus system for the moment (and also I am used to Placidus for some years, so it isn't easy to drop it).
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
urano said:
I am an amateur in Astrology therefore I can’t offer a professional advice, naturally.
I use Placidus by default (like many others maybe) rather than by conviction, but for the moment that is okay by me.

However I tried whole signs system for my natal chart and I have found this very relevant.
I specify that I have a little more than 40 years old, so there are things I already know about my life and personality.
When we have about 20 to have a large perspective is more difficult (I don’t do ageism, I specify it because in a thread a member complained about that :biggrin: ).
Therefore I am very tempted to use whole signs system, but without dropping Placidus system for the moment
(and also I am used to Placidus for some years, so it isn't easy to drop it).
Click to expand...
Exactly, many use Placidus because it's not easy to change a habit :smile:
so then
best idea is to keep on observing with both Placidus and Whole Sign
 
Vyri

Vyri

Banned
You could read Mike Wackford's series of articles, starting with http://www.skyscript.co.uk/polar1.html. It doesn't go much into the historical aspects of various house systems, but does provide a sound analysis of many of the issues.

quote obtained reading the articles about the house systems within skyscript.co.uk
 
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ashriia

ashriia

Well-known member
To our resident astro historian:wink:

I'd like to find more charts like the one you posted here, for my astro library. But in a different colors, the one you posted is too bright for my eyes. :joyful:

What should search term should I google it under?
 
ravenscall

ravenscall

Well-known member
Placidus has always been the one I've used naturally. I can see why people do not like it though - when in the northern hemispheres, especially around the Scandinavian countries, and further like in North America, the interceptions and variations in the house sizes becomes a joke. People born in Tromso for example, have to use the equal house system - sometimes the AC/MC lines become so skewed and together because of the hemisphere distance from the horizon - and in those specific countries, the Sun never sets below the horizon or rises above it in certain months of the year. I think Placidus is fine to use when the houses are not wildly irregular. I do think interceptions/intercepted planets have a lot of meaning, and I do think that transits to bigger houses means more lessons and time to be spent on the particular house.
 
U

urano

Well-known member
House system is a difficult issue, that requires to be very patient :smile:

I learnt Ibn Ezra (12th century CE) didn't use whole-sign-houses but a "modern system", I don't know which one for the moment. Of course not Placidus system but a house system with cusp and Midheaven.
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
urano said:
House system is a difficult issue, that requires to be very patient :smile:

I learnt Ibn Ezra (12th century CE) didn't use whole-sign-houses but a "modern system", I don't know which one for the moment. Of course not Placidus system but a house system with cusp and Midheaven.
Click to expand...

Ezra was using what later came to be know as the Placidus house system.
 
K

kamn

Active member
i personally find that placidus works about 90%, and vedic houses 10%.
vedics are kind of contradicting themselves by saying that Asc and MC are most important points in chart. so why dont they use houses from Asc - as from the first house cusp and from MC like from the 10th house cusp..

vedic houses i think only valuable when interpreting dashas, and looking in divisional charts.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kamn said:

i personally find that placidus works about 90%, and vedic houses 10%.
Click to expand...

"vedic houses" = "whole sign houses" = one whole sign occupies one whole house :smile:
kamn said:

vedics are kind of contradicting themselves
by saying that Asc and MC are most important points in chart.
so why dont they use houses from Asc
- as from the first house cusp and from MC like from the 10th house cusp..
Click to expand...
vedics are not "kind of contradicting themselves"
there is no contradiction

because
ASC and MC are not the "borders" of any houses
ASC and MC are simply "important points" within the 1st and 10th houses of the chart
kamn said:

vedic houses i think only valuable when interpreting dashas, and looking in divisional charts.
Click to expand...
that's a matter of individual opinion
 
duenderoja

duenderoja

Well-known member
In my studies, I have used whole sign primarily. In interpretations it has been very accurate. I moved from placidus, about the time I almost gave up on astrology for poor relation to my own life. I do not have intercepted houses, so that may be the only benefit of placidus houses.

In my opinion.
 
S

Stubborn Virgo

Active member
I use whole signs house system.

I used Placidus for about eight years. I do have intercepted signs according to Placidus, but the interpretation of my chart in that house system is so inaccurate it's laughable. It's also inaccurate with other people I know, but I haven't had that experience with whole signs yet.
 
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