Is there any potential for studying abroad in the next couple of years?

Hey guys, I've been wondering, do I have any chance of studying or living abroad in the next couple of years? Where I live you can apply for a study loan until you are 30 (currently I'm 27), but thanks to the pandemic now I'm worried that by the time the circumstances improve it might be too late.


I also wanted to mention, I don't like the place where I live all that much. The place where I live is pretty isolating since I can't connect with the people in the community on an intellectual level (I've been living here since I was a child by the way, it's one of the Caribbean islands of the Dutch kingdom), and also the lack of opportunities. I don't want to be stuck here forever, but thanks to Covid the future seems uncertain....


Thanks in advance.


Note: just in case anybody asks or needs extra information, I also attached the progressed chart and solar return of next year and 2022

Mister Skeleton said:

Alright, if this is the kind of treatment I'm gonna get here then I'm done with this site. I've got enough worries as it is. Good riddance.

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That was trolling. The troll has been banned and I've deleted the trolling posts.

If you see anything like that again, please report it. Some people may have genuinely negative views of the astrological transits or placements, but there's nothing about Jupiter in the fourth house that means you won't go abroad.

Osamenor said:

That was trolling. The troll has been banned and I've deleted the trolling posts.

If you see anything like that again, please report it. Some people may have genuinely negative views of the astrological transits or placements, but there's nothing about Jupiter in the fourth house that means you won't go abroad.

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Hey there, thanks for banning that troll, and sorry for my drastic reaction. Some people don't have a heart at all. There are people that come here looking for some hope in their darkest hours, some who have it worse than I do, and they gotta play with people's minds like that? Absolutely disgusting.
I'll put the charts back up again.

There are multiple ways your question could be addressed. I had two of approximately the same question on my blog (link in my signature), and I used different methods. In one case, solar return and profections seemed to work best, but the only reason I could use profections was because I had full birth information so I knew how old the querent was. Knowing someone's profected year requires knowing their exact age.

In the second case, progressions told me a lot, but I was looking at them overlaid with the natal, which makes them easiest to read.

There's also the underlying question behind the question: what does it mean to you to study abroad? Is it that you specifically want to study, or that you want to escape where you are? If studying abroad turned out not to be feasible, would you consider going some other way? There might be multiple ways you could get off the island, if that's what you really want.

Of course, Covid throws a monkey wrench into it all. The feasibility of going anywhere in the next year or two depends on how effectively and quickly the pandemic gets under control to the point that the countries you'd want to go to are reopening their borders, and reopening the study or work opportunities that might get you there.

So, one approach might be to simply look at the year ahead--pertinent since you just had a solar return--and what you might be able to do with the hand you're dealt. It might or might not be exactly what you wanted, but it can be maximized.

Osamenor said:

There are multiple ways your question could be addressed. I had two of approximately the same question on my blog (link in my signature), and I used different methods. In one case, solar return and profections seemed to work best, but the only reason I could use profections was because I had full birth information so I knew how old the querent was. Knowing someone's profected year requires knowing their exact age.

In the second case, progressions told me a lot, but I was looking at them overlaid with the natal, which makes them easiest to read.

There's also the underlying question behind the question: what does it mean to you to study abroad? Is it that you specifically want to study, or that you want to escape where you are? If studying abroad turned out not to be feasible, would you consider going some other way? There might be multiple ways you could get off the island, if that's what you really want.

Of course, Covid throws a monkey wrench into it all. The feasibility of going anywhere in the next year or two depends on how effectively and quickly the pandemic gets under control to the point that the countries you'd want to go to are reopening their borders, and reopening the study or work opportunities that might get you there.

So, one approach might be to simply look at the year ahead--pertinent since you just had a solar return--and what you might be able to do with the hand you're dealt. It might or might not be exactly what you wanted, but it can be maximized.

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I'd like to become an art teacher, which is why I want to study art abroad. I've had people encourage me to go abroad also to see if I can make something of it. Back when I was attending the Avond Havo here around the time Saturn was going through my 1st house (that's the night version of high school in the Dutch system) I was studying hard since that was my goal, but I changed my mind close to graduation since I came to think that art doesn't pay the bills (I regret thinking that since my intuition was telling me to do it anyway). But after having an enlightening conversation with a coworker she made me realize that I have potential to do something with my gifts, and that it seemed like a waste to stay in a place that's limited. Most of the people here also don't care about art or literature, so finding people I can connect with is very difficult. I'm lucky if I find anyone whom I 'click' with, which is rare.


Last year around October/November I made the decision to go after that goal again, but then the pandemic happened, so things are uncertain now regarding that goal. I can't even save up money to move abroad either at the moment. I'm stuck working as a part-timer in a casino right now. Before the pandemic I wasn't earning much to begin with. I was gonna look for a full-time job to earn more, but with Covid most places aren't hiring, so all I'm doing is waiting until things pick up again. In the meantime I'm helping my parents out with the bills and bettering myself in preparation for the future.



I've attached the progressed chart overlaid on natal in case you'd like to take a look

Do you want to teach art in your current country, or somewhere else?

If your current country, what are the qualifications for teaching art there? Would you be able to meet them whether you go abroad or not?

Sometimes the best way to perfect your own art is to teach it. That doesn't necessarily mean you're *only* destined to be a teacher, but it's one possible path you could take.

Seeing that you have so much in the eleventh and twelfth houses makes me think you aim big. Those houses are the last in the cycle, and the biggest, in a sense. They're the houses of your legacy. The houses where you become bigger than yourself. The global houses, as it were.

The first thing that leaped out at me about your progressions is that your progressed Moon is coming to your eleventh house, newly in Libra, and coming in to make your progressed lunar return. The progressed lunar return happens for everyone in the year or two before their Saturn return. And--neat trick--on your 28th birthday, you get a combined solar return and lunar return. Moon topics are highlighted.

A Libra Moon often is an artistic Moon. One of the archetypes for the sign Libra is the Artist. The person who wants to make everything beautiful.

Teaching can be Libran, too: bring out the potential in your students. Work with them so they can create something harmonious.

You have both a lot of Libra and a lot of Scorpio in your chart. Scorpio gives depth to the Libran aesthetic sensibility. Art isn't just a thing of beauty, it's a way to deeply explore the good, the bad, and the ugly.

All this is to say, if you have such a strong desire to be an artist, it's coming from those packed signs and houses. You can't afford to ignore it.

But you're not necessarily dependent on getting the opportunity to study abroad. Whether you get that or not, is outside your control. Maybe it would help to brainstorm, or let your intuition take over and just dream up, ways you could satisfy your big dreams. Studying abroad may be one way, but is it the only way?

Osamenor said:

Do you want to teach art in your current country, or somewhere else?

If your current country, what are the qualifications for teaching art there? Would you be able to meet them whether you go abroad or not?

Sometimes the best way to perfect your own art is to teach it. That doesn't necessarily mean you're *only* destined to be a teacher, but it's one possible path you could take.

Seeing that you have so much in the eleventh and twelfth houses makes me think you aim big. Those houses are the last in the cycle, and the biggest, in a sense. They're the houses of your legacy. The houses where you become bigger than yourself. The global houses, as it were.

The first thing that leaped out at me about your progressions is that your progressed Moon is coming to your eleventh house, newly in Libra, and coming in to make your progressed lunar return. The progressed lunar return happens for everyone in the year or two before their Saturn return. And--neat trick--on your 28th birthday, you get a combined solar return and lunar return. Moon topics are highlighted.

A Libra Moon often is an artistic Moon. One of the archetypes for the sign Libra is the Artist. The person who wants to make everything beautiful.

Teaching can be Libran, too: bring out the potential in your students. Work with them so they can create something harmonious.

You have both a lot of Libra and a lot of Scorpio in your chart. Scorpio gives depth to the Libran aesthetic sensibility. Art isn't just a thing of beauty, it's a way to deeply explore the good, the bad, and the ugly.

All this is to say, if you have such a strong desire to be an artist, it's coming from those packed signs and houses. You can't afford to ignore it.

But you're not necessarily dependent on getting the opportunity to study abroad. Whether you get that or not, is outside your control. Maybe it would help to brainstorm, or let your intuition take over and just dream up, ways you could satisfy your big dreams. Studying abroad may be one way, but is it the only way?

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Because of the limited opportunities here on the island most people who want to become a professional in something or to learn teaching go abroad to the Netherlands. There are some things you can study in the university here, but again the choices are limited (law, medicine, or marketing), and it's not in me to study something simply for the money. The main sector that drives the economy here is tourism.

Many students here who go study in the Netherlands never come back, and the ones who do come back due to life circumstances usually regret it. Of course you can come back here to work in a career that you studied in the Netherlands, but many choose not to come back.

I'd like to teach abroad since there are more opportunities elsewhere. Also, most people here just don't care about literature or art. A very small percentage are into those things, but the rest don't really care. It's a small community, so you're bound to meet the same kinds of people over and over again. If you're somebody who is into intellectual things it can be pretty lonely. There's almost no one my age who is into those things here.

But I think you're right. Whether I get to study abroad or not is up for the universe to decide. I've dabbled in astrology for so long, and one of the things I've come to realize that is that things are set up even before we are born. I've met people whom supposedly I have a past life connection with (like someone whose moon conjuncts my south node) so maybe I wasn't meant to go this year because I was supposed to meet them first? This world is full of mysteries.


Still, study or live abroad, I want to move abroad at some point no matter what, so I don't want to give up on that.

And if you're open to it being "at some point," and not insistent that it must be within a certain time frame, the chances that you'll get it go up. In fact, it's guaranteed that you'll get to go abroad at some point if that's what you want and you keep an eye out for opportunities.

What I've been hearing on the mundane astrology front, and what I myself think, is that Jupiter's current passage through Capricorn--conjunct Saturn and Pluto to boot--reflects the global clampdown on travel. Lots and lots and lots of people who wanted to travel can't now, because of the pandemic. Capricorn clips Jupiter's wings. Jupiter is travel.

Next month, Jupiter will move into Aquarius, which isn't so restrictive, but through the first few months of 2021, Jupiter will still be conjunct Saturn. That suggests slight easing of restrictions, but we're not likely to see a whole lot of easement until Jupiter has moved out of orb of Saturn. Even then, though, Jupiter and Saturn will be copresent in the same sign throughout the year, and it's a sign Saturn rules (traditionally). Jupiter still has to answer to Saturn then.

2022 will see Jupiter in Pisces, where it thrives, and no longer answering to Saturn. That's the likely time frame for real freedom of travel to start.

If you just turned 27, you are in a fourth house profection year. That makes Jupiter your time lord (ruler of Pisces; only traditional rulers are used in profections) and also activates Saturn (any planet in the activated sign(s) has noticeable influence, along with the time lord). The last two years, you were going through second and third house profections, which made Saturn your time lord. The year before that (age 24), you were in a first house profection year, which likewise made Jupiter your time lord and activated Saturn.

So you're in the final year of a four year period of having Saturn especially active in your life. Saturn active brings up Saturn topics: buckle down and work hard. Reality check. It can also bring you the trickster side of Saturn: give up your dream, it's not realistic, it won't make you a living. Pick something "real," do what you're told even if it goes against your gut, and you'll reap the rewards.

Saturn active can be a great time for accomplishing something. It can also be a great time for stagnation and sense of despair. Both of those things are Saturn.

Osamenor said:

And if you're open to it being "at some point," and not insistent that it must be within a certain time frame, the chances that you'll get it go up. In fact, it's guaranteed that you'll get to go abroad at some point if that's what you want and you keep an eye out for opportunities.

What I've been hearing on the mundane astrology front, and what I myself think, is that Jupiter's current passage through Capricorn--conjunct Saturn and Pluto to boot--reflects the global clampdown on travel. Lots and lots and lots of people who wanted to travel can't now, because of the pandemic. Capricorn clips Jupiter's wings. Jupiter is travel.

Next month, Jupiter will move into Aquarius, which isn't so restrictive, but through the first few months of 2021, Jupiter will still be conjunct Saturn. That suggests slight easing of restrictions, but we're not likely to see a whole lot of easement until Jupiter has moved out of orb of Saturn. Even then, though, Jupiter and Saturn will be copresent in the same sign throughout the year, and it's a sign Saturn rules (traditionally). Jupiter still has to answer to Saturn then.

2022 will see Jupiter in Pisces, where it thrives, and no longer answering to Saturn. That's the likely time frame for real freedom of travel to start.

If you just turned 27, you are in a fourth house profection year. That makes Jupiter your time lord (ruler of Pisces; only traditional rulers are used in profections) and also activates Saturn (any planet in the activated sign(s) has noticeable influence, along with the time lord). The last two years, you were going through second and third house profections, which made Saturn your time lord. The year before that (age 24), you were in a first house profection year, which likewise made Jupiter your time lord and activated Saturn.

So you're in the final year of a four year period of having Saturn especially active in your life. Saturn active brings up Saturn topics: buckle down and work hard. Reality check. It can also bring you the trickster side of Saturn: give up your dream, it's not realistic, it won't make you a living. Pick something "real," do what you're told even if it goes against your gut, and you'll reap the rewards.

Saturn active can be a great time for accomplishing something. It can also be a great time for stagnation and sense of despair. Both of those things are Saturn.

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My goodness, it's exactly as you've said. Now I have to look to into profections. So that's why the last few years have felt that way....



Yeah, I can see why Jupiter isn't well placed in Capricorn. I sort of imagine it as Zeus getting eaten by Chronos, just like his brothers and sisters, unable to do much in the belly of Saturn.



Jupiter conjunct Pluto in Capricorn definitely reflects the uncontrollable growth of this virus even though some people attribute the virus to Saturn conjunct Pluto, The growth of infections was always at its highest when Jupiter formed an exact conjunction with Pluto around beginning of April, end of June, and now mid November. After this last exact conjunction between them hopefully the virus will start to weaken. Interesting enough the world is close to getting a vaccine (from Pfizer and Biontech) just as Jupiter is starting to move away from Pluto.


Thank you very much for taking the time to read my thread. You really helped me ease my worries.

Osamenor


Isn't there a way to read Solar Return (free standing charts) using a timing (device) for the chart into that particular year?


I'm thinking that the 2021-22 SR chart looks good for potential long distance (overseas) travel having Venus ruling the 9th house intercepted with the North Node at 01Gemini. Ruler Venus in the 4th sextile Mars & Mercury in the SR 2nd...


It may just be wishful thinking on my part for this young man to realize his dreams....after seeing that stellium in the 12th house natal / prog.


The 2020-21 SR seems (because of the 7th) to be one which alerts to being careful around others. Ruler of the 9th Jupiter in the 7th with same degree Pluto & Saturn here.

leomoon said:

Osamenor


Isn't there a way to read Solar Return (free standing charts) using a timing (device) for the chart into that particular year?

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What kind of timing device do you mean?

Profections are a kind of timing device. But modern astrologers usually read solar return charts standalone, albeit overlaid with the natal. If you add profections to the mix, you get another set of information, but you could interpret a solar return without them.

leomoon said:

I'm thinking that the 2021-22 SR chart looks good for potential long distance (overseas) travel having Venus ruling the 9th house intercepted with the North Node at 01Gemini. Ruler Venus in the 4th sextile Mars & Mercury in the SR 2nd...


It may just be wishful thinking on my part for this young man to realize his dreams....after seeing that stellium in the 12th house natal / prog.


The 2020-21 SR seems (because of the 7th) to be one which alerts to being careful around others. Ruler of the 9th Jupiter in the 7th with same degree Pluto & Saturn here.

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That's sound interpretation. Ninth house themes, Sagittarius (or Pisces), Jupiter themes... if you're seeing much of that in a solar return chart, then something to do with ninth house/Jupiterian things is going on. If the native then tells you they want to study abroad, there you have your Jupiterian connection.

Mister Skeleton said:

My goodness, it's exactly as you've said. Now I have to look to into profections. So that's why the last few years have felt that way....

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Probably the last two years especially. I seem to have read your chart mistakenly: you have Saturn in Aquarius, not Pisces, so Saturn is actually not active when Jupiter is your time lord. But when Saturn is your time lord, it's your only activated planet. No other planets in Aquarius, and none at all in Capricorn, so you have nothing to activate along with Saturn. Nothing to distract or add other notes or share the burden.

The good news is you've just moved into a Jupiter year. The not so good news is, Jupiter was in fall at your solar return, and still with Pluto and Saturn. You may be getting some ease up this year--I expect it will be more so after Jupiter changes signs and moves on from Saturn--but in general, Jupiter can't do much to help you, as this year's time lord. It's rather like having a nice boss at a badly managed company, where upper management won't let your boss do anything to effectively solve the problems that affect you.

So, you might not be seeing much in the way of your efforts to study abroad bearing fruit. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't make some efforts, but the outcome is likely to be delayed. It does seem to have a better outlook in 2021-22.

Interesting, so there's a better chance for it to happen during the time of my Saturn return. Supposedly the Saturn return can be a time of change. Heck, I was even born during my dad's Saturn return, we both have Saturn in Aquarius at 23 degrees.


Honestly, Osamenor, I'd be happy if an easing of any kind happens next year. This year's been a roller coaster ride. When Jupiter entered Capricorn in my 2nd house in December of 2019 I was pretty excited because I thought it would be a time when the casino I work at would finally make me full-time, or that I would find a full-time job elsewhere, and I'd start saving up more. Pretty much the exact opposite happened. Over here the employees are getting subsidized 60-80% by the government since May in order to help businesses survive, so now I'm earning even less, still working part-time, and am barely able to save anything at the moment. From the looks of it, the subsidy is probably gonna last until about March of next year.



I can't help but see how funny it was how enthusiastic I was about my expectations back then. I said to myself 'yes! Jupiter's in my second house! Maybe I'll finally get to be full-time here, but Jupiter in Capricorn was like: 'Uh, no pal, not this year.' Though, thankfully I'm still working, it could've been much worse. A lot of people here lost their jobs.

Ref:

Originally Posted by leomoon
Osamenor


Isn't there a way to read Solar Return (free standing charts) using a timing (device) for the chart into that particular year?
What kind of timing device do you mean?

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Along these lines: (personally speaking, I never tried it or got into it, but had read about those who do use this method):



https://www.astrologyonline.eu/Acti...es/Active-Astrology-Article-detail.asp?Id=229




Excerpt printed:

Mister Skeleton said:

Honestly, Osamenor, I'd be happy if an easing of any kind happens next year. This year's been a roller coaster ride. When Jupiter entered Capricorn in my 2nd house in December of 2019 I was pretty excited because I thought it would be a time when the casino I work at would finally make me full-time, or that I would find a full-time job elsewhere, and I'd start saving up more. Pretty much the exact opposite happened. Over here the employees are getting subsidized 60-80% by the government since May in order to help businesses survive, so now I'm earning even less, still working part-time, and am barely able to save anything at the moment. From the looks of it, the subsidy is probably gonna last until about March of next year.



I can't help but see how funny it was how enthusiastic I was about my expectations back then. I said to myself 'yes! Jupiter's in my second house! Maybe I'll finally get to be full-time here, but Jupiter in Capricorn was like: 'Uh, no pal, not this year.' Though, thankfully I'm still working, it could've been much worse. A lot of people here lost their jobs.

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Well, Saturn is your second house ruler, and was your time lord last year. And it was helped by its conjunction with Jupiter (if the time lord is in an aspect by sign, including conjunction or copresence, with a benefic, it gets help). Jupiter may not be as strong in Capricorn, but even there, Jupiter gives you the help it can. And Saturn's helped you in Saturn's way: perhaps you had to get more frugal, perhaps your income went down to somewhere around bare minimum, but it's remained an income you can live on.

In this, I see Saturn and Jupiter helping you. No, you didn't make more money, you lost income instead, but for the circumstances, you're well off. You had a bit of protection in that second house realm.

Now your second house ruler is no longer your time lord, but Jupiter was in your second house at your solar return and will still be there for part of the coming year. I think you'll still have some protection there. It may not be hitting the mother lode, but it does suggest you won't be as bad off as you could be, financially.

Still, if you can save any money, even if it's a small amount, and avoid tapping into your savings, that would be wise.

Leomoon, I appreciate that article! I've been wondering about timing techniques for solar return myself. I once had a professional solar return reading where the astrologer gave me a timeline of when in the year things indicated in my SR were likely to occur, but I never knew how she came up with that.

Osmenor: Perhaps if you figure it out before I do, you can write it out here and we'll both learn something new! By the way, did your reading she did turn out in the manner and months she predicted?

leomoon said:

By the way, did your reading she did turn out in the manner and months she predicted?

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I don't remember.

But now I want to go over my solar return chart from five years ago. The themes that seemed to me to be strongest in that chart manifested around my solar opposition. Highlights of the year, for sure, but for the first half of it, they weren't much there.

That's getting away from this thread topic, though, unless we can think of how to fit that to Mr. Skeleton's chart.

The idea being, once someone figures out the methodology the astrologer used in France, then we can apply it to Mr. Skeleton's chart.


note: Perhaps Mr. S. has some idea of how to apply it to his own SR since he has astrological background.

leomoon said:

The idea being, once someone figures out the methodology the astrologer used in France, then we can apply it to Mr. Skeleton's chart.


note: Perhaps Mr. S. has some idea of how to apply it to his own SR since he has astrological background.

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I took some time to study the excerpt. From what I could gather:


The ascendant up until the 4th house corresponds to November, December, January and February.


The Midheaven up until the ascendant corresponds to March, April, May and June.


The Nadir up until the descendant corresponds to July, August, September and October


So this means, for example, that what that Moon in the SR 3rd house or Venus SR 4th house signifies along with its aspects is going to manifest during the months of January and February. Mars and Chiron in Aries would manifest during April. Uranus in Taurus during May.



The excerpt says that you have to pay attention to the angular aspects the planets make during the 24 hours that immediately come after sun returns to the same degree as the natal Sun, which means 9:00pm November 10 until 9:00pm November 11, and each couple of hours after 9:00pm represents a month in the year. By angular aspects they probably are talking about squares and trines.


I tried comparing comparing each hour after the solar return's casting using a regular Natal Chart to see the movements of the planets, but only the Moon makes any sort of aspect while the rest of the planets remain the same, an exact trine between the Moon in Virgo and Saturn in Capricorn at 26 degrees at 6am on November 11. Two hours equals one month of the year, and that's five months in, so the exact trine would manifest around April.