Saturn Return: Harsh lessons already starting?

Hi all,

I know I keep posting on here, but these past few weeks have been extremely tough and I am trying to make sense of it all.

My Saturn return is due to start in December since I have Saturn in Capricorn in the 7th. The 7th house being the house of relationships, I understand why these issues came to the forefront, but I certainly don't want to quit my job. I love what I do, but I know that based on my credentials and abilities, I deserve way more. It seems as though I'm being faced with dealing with people who are truly genuine, persons who conceal their own motives under kindness and truly ruthless individuals, all suddenly acting the same.

Everything was going fine until October. Something shifted in October and things started getting complicated, more specifically at work. It seems as though people over there are scheming to drag me though the mud. I was told there would be a chance at getting promoted, but now, I'm questionning everything.

Some people with very poor communication will blame problems resulting for their lack of communication on me. They will dig out anything to turn the blame on me, even though I did things right.

This girl at work who is supposed to be my back-up for when I'm on annual leave and clearly wants to take my spot.

I ended up crying in front of my manager two days ago, because I grew tired of working the most extra hours, taking on extra-tasks no one wants to take, only to get treated like garbage by people who think their status is everything. I'm frustrated and hurt which had never happened in my career.

What is this Saturn Return supposed to bring? Do I need to be wary of something?

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Thank you.

With this chart that you posted, it appears Saturn is still some time away from your Saturn return... At the very least a year but probably longer since it takes about 2.5 years to transit a sign.

What it looks like is that your natal Saturn is being transited by Pluto...

StillOne said:

With this chart that you posted, it appears Saturn is still some time away from your Saturn return... At the very least a year but probably longer since it takes about 2.5 years to transit a sign.

What it looks like is that your natal Saturn is being transited by Pluto...

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Thank you, StillOne

Oh really? I was told Saturn Return starts when Saturn enters the sign, not specifically at the time where it transits the specific house.

I know Saturn is opposing my Moon and will complete this transit in November (i.e now). I was facing similar issues with another female coworker in February/March. Then everything got better and went back to normal. Now, it's been messed up since October.

Is this Saturn/Pluto transit bound to end soon enough?

Also, with Saturn and Pluto both being generational planets, wouldn't everyone in this age range have this transit going on anyway?

Saturn return starts when transiting Saturn gets within 2 or 3 degrees of your natal Saturn. If natal Saturn is early in its sign, that happens when Saturn enters its sign, or when it gets to the last few degrees of the previous one, but since your Saturn is at 20 degrees Cap, that's not the case for you.

Saturn return is not a disaster in and of itself. Not everyone experiences it as a particularly trying time. When people do experience it as harsh, there's much more going on for them than just Saturn return. If other heavy transits happen around the same time, people tend to blame their correlating events on "Saturn return." And even then, transits don't cause your life's circumstances or events, only reflect them.

If Saturn transits, squares, or opposes other planets or points as it approaches its return, that makes the "Saturn return" energy kick in sooner. As you noted, Saturn has been opposing your natal moon for months now. Meanwhile, your progressed moon is approaching its first return (progressed lunar returns happen around the same time as Saturn returns), it would've transited your natal Mars not too long ago (probably not exact in October, though), and your progressed Venus is currently in a pretty exact opposition with your progressed moon.

Lots of feminine and antagonistic energy in that. On top of that, Neptune is sitting right on your MC, stationing there, in fact. The date of Neptune's exact station was yesterday, but in October, Neptune would've been slowing down, getting ready to station, and on your MC the whole time. All the deception you mention, lack of communication, in the workplace, and people smearing your reputation at work, sounds like a very nasty Neptune on the MC situation.

Osamenor said:

Saturn return starts when transiting Saturn gets within 2 or 3 degrees of your natal Saturn. If natal Saturn is early in its sign, that happens when Saturn enters its sign, or when it gets to the last few degrees of the previous one, but since your Saturn is at 20 degrees Cap, that's not the case for you.

Saturn return is not a disaster in and of itself. Not everyone experiences it as a particularly trying time. When people do experience it as harsh, there's much more going on for them than just Saturn return. If other heavy transits happen around the same time, people tend to blame their correlating events on "Saturn return." And even then, transits don't cause your life's circumstances or events, only reflect them.

If Saturn transits, squares, or opposes other planets or points as it approaches its return, that makes the "Saturn return" energy kick in sooner. As you noted, Saturn has been opposing your natal moon for months now. Meanwhile, your progressed moon is approaching its first return (progressed lunar returns happen around the same time as Saturn returns), it would've transited your natal Mars not too long ago (probably not exact in October, though), and your progressed Venus is currently in a pretty exact opposition with your progressed moon.

Lots of feminine and antagonistic energy in that. On top of that, Neptune is sitting right on your MC, stationing there, in fact. The date of Neptune's exact station was yesterday, but in October, Neptune would've been slowing down, getting ready to station, and on your MC the whole time. All the deception you mention, lack of communication, in the workplace, and people smearing your reputation at work, sounds like a very nasty Neptune on the MC situation.

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Thank you, Osamenor. I appreciate your help

If I'm correct, this Neptune/MC situation is bound to last until mid-January approximately. I don't want to abandon my job because of this transit though it's been particularly hard. I really love what I do, but I know my credentials and intellectual abilities would allow me to find something better. The truth is I feel highly underappreciated and people have been scheming to throw me under the bus to hide their own shortcomings/laziness.

Part of me wants to give up, but another part of me simply wants to wait it out, with the hope these people will eventually be exposed. My confience has completely dissipated to the point where I now have extreme anxiety at teh thought of dealing with certain people .. even though I am consciously aware I'm highly competent.

I'm normally not this sensitive and I'm feisty by nature, so people's rudeness doesn't affect me much. Jupiter is going to trine my MC soon, so that may give me some temporary relief. But yeah, this Neptune/MC transit has me desillusioned. I was doing so well and suddenly, people started creating issues out of nowhere to throw me under the bus.

Why not start looking for a job? It usually takes many months of searching and interviewing and long hiring processes to get a new one, so chances are it will take you at least until January to get an offer, even if you start today. Job hunting doesn't necessarily mean you have to leave your current job, just that you'll have more options. If you get an offer somewhere else, then you can decide whether to go or stay.

The way things are going, it sounds like you might be forced out if you don't quit on your own. I am not predicting this based on astrology--nothing I see in your chart or transits screams that at me, so don't take this as a guaranteed outcome--but if you're getting scapegoated, undermined, and treated like garbage at work, and your boss isn't backing you up and telling the scapegoaters to stop, it's logical to conclude that they could be trying to get rid of you.

And if you're not forced out, do you really want to stay in a job this toxic? The best predictor of what it will be like in the future is what it's like now. If it's this bad now, it's not going to get better unless there's a sudden major overhaul. You can't cause a sudden major overhaul, and it doesn't make sense to wait around for one to happen. What you can do is get yourself out while you still have some self respect left.

Another observation on the timing of when this started: as Neptune sits on your MC, it's also squaring your natal Mars, within 1 degree. The square was exact in early October. That seems right for the kind of thing that's been going on: hidden enemies (twelfth house), verbal rumors (Gemini), aggression/antagonism (Mars), illusions and deception (Neptune/Pisces).

Honestly eveything was fine until October. I was getting tons of compliments from senior management and even colleagues. They saw how much work I put into my job

Then something happened in October (they re-hired some guy who had left) and things shifted after that.

My manager is backing me up. She's trying to mitigate the situation because she sees how bad it's gotten. Besides, I work on my own and if I leave, they'll be in a precarious situation (not that I care, but they can't afford to lose me). My position was vacant for about 2 years because people came and left rather quickly (after a few weeks) due to various reasons (language skills lacking, workload, manager demands ..). I was able to turn this around, until my colleagues abroad started throwing me under the bus.

I have two managers (onshore/offshore type of situation) and both have been extremely complimentary of my work. A potential promotion was also even discussed, hence the fact I'm in two minds.

The issue is the colleagues. I'm not being scapegoated by my managers, but by the colleagues. I should have specified that. My colleagues abroad are the ones who treat me poorly and trying to throw me under the bus. The girl who is supposed to be my back up for when I'm on annual leave is also part of the issue.

I started looking, but I am not sure where to look (i.e: whether to look in my location or relocation) and whether I'd like to stay in the same type of corporation.

Also, I can't afford to leave it all behind based on a rash decision. I'm not in touch with my family, so I have no one at all. I don't have a partner and don't have any close friends over here. I need to be careful what I'm doing.

Have you told your manager everything that these colleagues of yours are doing? If not, she needs to know. Put it in writing. Document everything. If you have emails or other written forms of communication that show their nastiness, keep them, and ensure that they're accessible and don't get lost.

If they can't afford to lose you, that's a strong advantage you have. You can tell them (assuming this is true) that if this doesn't change, you'll have to leave. If you're really that valuable to the company, they'll do everything to keep you.

What you can't do is passively wait for this situation to change without taking any action. Your Mars is being challenged by that square from Neptune. When your Mars is being challenged, no situation will ever change in your favor without action on your part. A challenge to natal Mars is a call to action to the Mars part of you. If you act, you can affect the outcome, and you have the greatest chance of it being favorable to you. If you do nothing and wait for the transit to pass, you're disowning your Mars. That will make others reflect Mars to you, in a highly detrimental way.

There are multiple kinds of action you could take. You could speak up. You could expose the bullies. (Note, those things are very much a Gemini Mars thing to do: use words to fight.) You could also decide it's not working out and surreptitiously take action to get yourself another job (also a communicative thing to do). That doesn't mean make a rash decision. That does mean don't expect things to go back to normal if you just wait. Neptune moves so slowly that any aspect it makes lasts a very long time, so you have plenty of time ahead when you'll need to sharpen your Mars responses.

Would you manage these bullying colleagues if you were promoted? If so, they would undermine you as a manager, too.

Last week, when I cried in front of my manager, I told her about what was happening with the people in the other office. She's aware and told me to provide her with details/list of occurences. She said she would discuss the matter with my other manager.

Meanwhile, the manager abroad started seeing some of these people's ways and tried to discuss it with me. We touched on it briefly and she said she'd talk to the persons in question.

I was debating whether or not to talk about the situation, but I couldn't help myself when I broke down. It just came out because it was the cause of my inadequacy. I can't even do my job properly because of these people. I was afraid of the fact that I opened up about it because I'm not one to throw colleagues under the bus, but it became too much, so I wound up crying and revealing the issue.

I will need to have a proper talk with both of them and see how this can be approached. The truth be told is if the situation doesn't get any better, I will surely weigh my options.

I certainly do not want to remain quiet at all. I haven't worked this hard to let someone bully me like this. The issues is those people I'm up against have been in the company for decades. I'm a young female in my twenties, so I'm afraid they will not take my words seriously (although I never complain about anything, take on extra- tasks outside of my daily routine, work extra-hours every day, work autonomously..).

LostinPhilly said:

I was debating whether or not to talk about the situation, but I couldn't help myself when I broke down. It just came out because it was the cause of my inadequacy. I can't even do my job properly because of these people. I was afraid of the fact that I opened up about it because I'm not one to throw colleagues under the bus

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You're not throwing them under the bus. They did that to themselves. All you did was tell the truth. Throwing them under the bus would be if you got them in trouble (or tried to) for things they didn't do.

I was in a similar situation just over a year ago. I had a coworker who was repeatedly undermining me, trying to gaslight me, refusing to communicate with me about our shared duties or do his share, and I reported him. There was a final straw incident (after he was on warning, mainly as a result of my reports), which I was the main witness to, and when I sent the email to our boss detailing the incident, I had a moment of hesitation and discomfort, thinking, "Here I am getting 'P' fired." He did get fired, but that was his own fault. If he had done his job and not been a bully, I wouldn't have had anything to report.

About a month later, another coworker told me that he'd bullied her, too, similarly, but worse. She'd kept silent because she was too afraid to speak up.

LostinPhilly said:

The issues is those people I'm up against have been in the company for decades. I'm a young female in my twenties, so I'm afraid they will not take my words seriously.

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That's exactly what a Mars challenge feels like. That's when you have to step out of your comfort zone. If you don't take the challenge, the bullies get away with it and you lose big. If you do, you're owning your Mars, you're using courage, and Mars works for you rather than against you.

Hi Osamenor,

Thank you for your help on this thread. This is much appreciated.

I wanted to provide an update on how things progressed.

My manager never addressed those issues up, so I ended up standing up for myself whenever a situation with those persons occured. It was the best course of action, as I'm pretty adamant my manager (local one) doesn't have my best interest at heart.

Throughout my two years, I have received numerous positive feedback from senior management (my local manager is not in senior management at all) about my work, targets & dedication. She's not well-liked by senior management.

I had an impromptu chat with my local manager a few days ago. I told her I was feeling slightly stagnant and wanted to contribute more. She told me straight away: If you want to change position, I'll support it and assist you to find one. You can start by shadowing people. She kept on and on about how I should look at my options.
This was strange given the fact I simply said I felt stagnant and wanted to contribute more. I never said I was leaving!

Anyway. This was an eye-opener that I may not be promoted, nor will she truly have my back. My overseas manager (senior management) unfortunately has no say on promotions since I don't directly report to her. With a manager like my local one, I may never progress due to her envy. I've started drafting my resume ... we don't know what the future holds, but working under the management of someone who cannot act as a proper manager is enough for me to make up my mind.

Lately, plenty of people I know have suggested me to try my luck at law firms (since I have two Bachelor degrees and a Masters of Law) and perhaps train a solicitor or find a legal counsel position. Maybe it's time to go down that route and properly make use of my credentials which seems like a fantasy at my current job.

With Neptune conjunct MC now being over, I can see things a bit more clearly. My local manager isn't supporting me & wants me gone because she's threatened. My full potential is not being used.

We'll see what happens, but maybe I'm now ready to take a leap and enter the legal field, which is what I psnet 5 years of college working on...

Thanks for updating, Philly.

As Neptune moves off your MC, it moves closer into the square to Mars. It's now just minutes from an exact square. And you've been taking action, which is exactly what you should do in response. Transiting Mars has just been over your Scorpio stellium, too, which may have been extra energy for action.

I imagine that Jupiter transiting your stellium, and Saturn crossing your progressed Mercury, could help with a career change if you take it seriously and seize opportunity when it comes.

LostinPhilly said:

Oh really? I was told Saturn Return starts when Saturn enters the sign, not specifically at the time where it transits the specific house.

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What you have been told is correct. And traditionally, one sign is also one house. That's the basic structure. You can overlay this with another house system though if you think you should adjust for latitude. In that case, I would suggest to work with both sign and house entries, i.e. using the sign as the basis and the house as an additional factor and the actual transit over your natal Saturn as a culmination point.

Thanks all for your help. I appreciate your assistance on this matter.

Today, I found out I was passed up for promotion, despite the fact I received numerous positive feedbacks from senior management during my two years. The two that got promoted were promoted as they have been with the company for three years. Yet, I was told no one has ever received such positive feedbacks from senior management.

They equal seniority with the number of years, not merit.

Hence, my days of staying until 10pm in the office to complete extra-projects are now over. I am anticipating to have moved on by the end of October to a better paying and more fulfilling position.

I have started drafted my CV and will certainly start shopping around in February. I hope I will be able to move up by moving on.

For now, I'm looking into the legal field (corporate/finance) and banking (relationship management, law or private equity).

Now, my question is will I move locations? I'm torn between staying where I am and moving to a bigger European capital?

Oh well.

With Saturn transits, we don't always get what we want, but we do get what we need.

katydid said:

With Saturn transits, we don't always get what we want, but we do get what we need.

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Thanks, but this doesn't help .. sadly.

It took me ages to find a permanent position after I finished college with a highly sought after and selective law degrees. All of my peers found legal jobs right after college and I kept getting rejection after rejection despite my good credentials. At that stage, I was going through Saturn in Scorpio which was hard enough already.

Now again, I'm told I'm the one of the best they've ever had and I get passed up. I poured my heart and soul, worked double to get nothing.

I've been single for god knows how long, never had a serious relationship and I'm no longer in touch with my family. I thought my job would be the one thing that at least goes right ... well ...

Anyway, I am already planning my exit from this dead end job.

Also, bear in mind Jupiter is also transiting and I have Saturn in Capricon in my natal, so the transit shouldn't be that harsh. Saturn is in my hosue of relationships, not work though you can assimilate partnerships too.

LostinPhilly said:

Now, my question is will I move locations?

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Only if you choose to. Unless you're a child who has to move if and when your parents decide to--which you're not--when, whether, and where to move is your choice, not your fate.

If you're looking for a new job, whether you end up moving depends on where you find a job, doesn't it?

If you're considering a particular city, it won't hurt to apply for jobs there. But, depending on how narrow the field is, you might or might not end up getting a job there.

Osamenor said:

Only if you choose to. Unless you're a child who has to move if and when your parents decide to--which you're not--when, whether, and where to move is your choice, not your fate.

If you're looking for a new job, whether you end up moving depends on where you find a job, doesn't it?

If you're considering a particular city, it won't hurt to apply for jobs there. But, depending on how narrow the field is, you might or might not end up getting a job there.

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Thanks.

No, I was mainly asking in light of the transits.

I've moved a lot, so this is not a decision I'm afraid to make for work. It's happened in the past a lot. I'm just alluding to whether or not the transits are favorable, is all.

I'm not asking for "rational" advice on this possible move, but more so of an astrological one.