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  #26  
Unread 03-10-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
People with exceptional talents tend to have exceptional charts and yours is no exception!
So I guess I am the exception then?

Oh well...**** my insecurities! :evil:

Aquarian Maverick

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  #27  
Unread 03-10-2006, 03:00 PM
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I hear ya.

:mrgreen:

God.. Tim, don't you have any compassion?

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  #28  
Unread 03-10-2006, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
God.. Tim, don't you have any compassion?
Tim's a triple Virgo...I believe we can forgive him!

And I'm a double Aries with a major stellium in my second house, which means I constantly seek attention and reassurance because I don't trust my own abilities :?

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  #29  
Unread 03-10-2006, 05:27 PM
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Attempting to get back on topic, I pose a question to the general community at large: does any have any observations about Mia's or M_Adison's Harmonic Charts, which I have posted below along with my own?

I noticed that Mia has a Kite in her Seventh Harmonic Chart (just as I do) involving a Grand Trine between her Sun in Aquarius, Venus in Libra, and Mars in Gemini, with her Sun-Ascendent opposition completing the configuration. Both of our Kites are focused on the Sun and involve our Ascendent and Venus...and my second Kite also includes Mars! To sweeten the deal, Mia's Pholus is located in Pisces in her Seventh Harmonic Chart, while mine is located in Pisces in my natal chart!

M_Adison does not have any Grand Trines in her* Seventh Harmonic Chart, but she does possess a Mystic Rectangle involving her Midheaven in Aquarius opposite her Leo and Mars in Sagittarius opposite a tight Sun/Pluto conjunction in Gemini. Also, there are several T-squares with Uranus in Taurus (on cusp of Aries) as the apex, square Saturn in Capricorn (on the cusp of Aquarius). Saturn in turn is opposite the Moon, Venus, and Neptune in Cancer and Chiron in Leo. Another T-square is formed between the same Ascendent/Descendent opposition that is involved in the aforementioned Mystic Rectangle, both square the North Node in Scorpio.

I have reposted our Seventh Harmonic Charts (with only Pallas added) for easier comparison.

Mia:



Beth:



M_Adison:



I have also taken the liberty of searching our Ninth Harmonic Charts for more commonalities, which has led to the interesting discovery that both Mia and I have several T-squares involving planets in Aquarius and Scorpio. Mia's first T-square involves Uranus on the cusp of Pisces, but still technically in Aquarius, opposite her Sun in Leo--both square Neptune in Taurus. Her second T-square involves Neptune in Taurus opposite a Pluto/Saturn conjunction in Scorpio--both square her Sun in Leo. These configurations are almost involved in a Grand Cross, but one side of the square is "broken" with Uranus square her North Node instead of the Pluto/Saturn conjunction needed to complete the Cross.

In addition to having two Grand Trine configurations in my Ninth Harmonic Chart--one involving a tight Saturn/Moon conjunction in Taurus, trine Pallas in Sagittarius (on the cusp of Capricorn), trine Mercury in Leo; another involving my Pisces MC trine a Pluto/Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio trine Chrion in Cancer--I also have several T-squares like Mia. My first one involves a tight Uranus/Mars conjunction in Aquarius opposite another tight Sun/Venus conjunction in Leo OR Mercury in Leo, both square my Ascendent in Scorpio. Another T-square involves that same Uranus/Mars conjunction in Aquarius opposite the Sun/Venus conjunction in Leo OR Mercury in Leo, both square my Pluto/Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio. Perhaps I should also mention that the Pluto/Jupiter conjunction is opposite a tight Saturn/Moon conjunction in Capricorn.

I created/uploaded M_Adison's Harmonic Charts and analyzed them only after I had originally written the comparisons above; therefore, I appologize if she is somewhat seperate from the descriptions I have given thus far. Nevertheless, her Ninth Harmonic Chart shares some important similarities with mine, including two Grand Trines--one involves Neptune in Aquarius trine Uranus in Libra, trine Saturn in Gemini; another involves that same Neptune-Uranus aspect trine Jupiter, also located in Gemini. She also has a T-square with her Ascendant in Scorpio opposite Venus in Taurus, both square Neptune in Aquarius.

Here are our Ninth Harmonic Charts (again, with only Pallas added) side by side for easier comparison.

Mia:



Beth:



M_Adison:



Aquarian Maverick

*Am I correct with the gender? I was presumed as male by several people on these forums, so I sympathesize wholeheartedly with anyone who is mistaken to be of the opposite sex. By the way, I based my assumption solely on your comments about men on the Psychics, Liars and Drunks Board
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  #30  
Unread 03-10-2006, 08:26 PM
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Talent

Maverick and Madison,

You are right about the "exceptional" comment being tactless. I have edited my comment so it simply refers to talent indicated in a chart.

Vising and revising,

Tim
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  #31  
Unread 03-10-2006, 08:48 PM
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No need to dwell on the situation...let's get back to the discussion

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  #32  
Unread 03-11-2006, 02:50 AM
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I am so silly...I just reread through Lunar Pisces' post near the beginning of this thread and realized that I included the ninth harmonic charts instead of the fifth :roll:

Since I have already uploaded the charts onto the forum, I will keep them there and simply add the fifth harmonic charts to this post.

Mia:



Beth:



M_Adison:



And here are our 10th harmonic charts for good measure

Mia:



Beth:



M_Adison:



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  #33  
Unread 03-11-2006, 03:39 AM
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Based on the little I know about harmonic charts (I'm learning right now), it would seem to me that the 5th harmonic would show how one expresses their talents as the 5th house would show but on the micro level.

I would look at the 2nd harmonics chart (micro of 2nd house) to assess what talents/resources are being held. The 10th seems to show how they might be publicly viewed.

I might also want to look at some sabian readings for the harmonic chart's sun and North Node to get a flavor.

BTW - Mia's 5th harmonic shows venus at the MC which is an indicator of public performance as stated earlier. My 5th harmonic chart has Venus in a t-square with Saturn and Neptune. As much as I would love to express my musical talent (Sun/Venus sextile and Neptune part of grand trine in 2nd harmonic), it's not happening.
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  #34  
Unread 03-11-2006, 03:42 AM
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Thanks for responding, Kite! Should I upload the second harmonic charts as well, or would that be a bit overkill? :roll:

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  #35  
Unread 03-11-2006, 03:45 AM
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Re: musical ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia
I may be moving back into performing maybe. Does anyone see any indication of this in my chart I wonder?
Mia--

I'm not clear if your question is: "Does my chart say I have musical talent?" or, "Does my chart say I will soon return to performing?"

I'll go for the first, and say this:

Mercury conjunct Venus: you express youself "sweetly" -- or with love, or with joy. You being a singer would not be a surprise.

Mars conjunct Uranus: Your way of aserting yourself is like an antenna for certain vibrations, which could include the musical ones.

Uranus, Mars and Sun in the 12th house: You live in the other-worldly world, the place where air is music and water is joy.

Moon conjuncts Neptune: You are most at home connected to that ethereal world (sort of like that 12th house business, above). This could also make you psychic.

So, in my opinion, you have not one, but several indicators of musical inclination, and with the Leo Ascendant and Aries Midheaven, you approach things in a theatrical, dramatic way, and you shape your career around being assertive-- maybe a little brassy and bold. Your Midheaven (career indicator)'s ruler, Mars, conjuncts the planet of individuality (Uranus), and it does this in the (Pisces -- 12th) house of ethereal beauty, escapism, and other worldliness. You are shaping your life, in an overall way, and your career, around these ethereal qualities.

Lots of reasons for music there, I'd say.

-- C Jayne
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  #36  
Unread 03-11-2006, 05:40 AM
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musical talent

Hello all my musical friends

It's great to discuss something else we have in common together with our interest in astrology!

Wilsontc - thanks for the information; I can relate to much of what you described. People comment that I am a powerful performer (I'm known for having a powerful voice) and that comes from somewhere deep inside me. I only really feel powerful when I am performing. I am not an excessively extrovert personality, I kind of wax and wane between feeling confident and feeling not so confident (12th house sun?) and people who have not heard me sing are shocked when they see me on stage performing because I'm quite quiet, unasumming and quietly spoken until I get on stage and sing. So to those of you who worry about actually performing; I've been there and still did it! If you're meant to do it you will and I really believe that.


I have lacked self-belief sometimes, (even though people have always commented on my talent) intermittent lack of confidence just seems to be part of my personality, you know that sensitivity which can be positively turned into being sensitive to an audience and tuning in. I feel I am being the 'real me' when I perform/create music. I can relate also to a comment made by someone in an earlier post about not appreciating how talented we may be because it is so natural a thing for us to do and we take it for granted; that is definitely me!

Your discussion of my 5th house Saturn is also interesting Tim especially with the current Jupiter/Saturn and vice versa conjunctions. Yes, I am feeling more expansive about my music and performing again and I know I have several Neptune transits going on at the moment too which are making me feel foggy and muddy-headed in my 'day job' (teaching literacy and numeracy) but are great for the music and composition! I have to start writing again.

I have the Part of Fortune also conjunct Saturn so an indication of more success when I'm older? ( I would agree with this for several reasons) The Vertex is also involved so this is all fated? (as I've indicated already I feel my musical/singing career was) I'm also now aware (thanks to Beth putting up my chart) that Pallas is conjunct this combination in my 5th house. I have recently began making moves to get back into the music (so you are spot on Tim) and am working with a very eminent and renound singing teacher who has many famous singers on his books, towards gaining certification in his particular method of teaching singing. My niece (who also sings plays sax/piano) my partner and myself are going into business together to teach singing/ music/drama so here's hoping for our success! The way I see it, I'll be moving back into musical circles and so will probably perform again.

Beth, thanks again for taking the time to put the harmonic charts up. It's interesting stuff isn't it - the similarities and commonalities between our charts and involving the same planets/points etc - perhaps you've hit on something here! My ninth harmonic chart sounds a bit heavy with all that Pluto/Saturn stuff and nearly a Grand Cross too (sorry, I would quote directly but don't know how to to it!) Do you know what the ninth house harmonic is indicative of? Even so, it is interesting. Are harmonic charts used extensively or for a particular purpose?

Great thread
Mia
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  #37  
Unread 03-11-2006, 06:02 AM
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musical abilty

Hi CJayne

Just read your post after I'd posted mine which I see has come out twice! (sorry everybody)

Yes, I was wondering about the question of moving back into performing but the stuff you have written is spot on!

I do approach things in a theatrical, dramatic way (even if it is done quietly!) this IS me. Being a little 'brassy and bold' is in there somewhere and I do find it coming out more the older I get. I think the reason this part of me is not always evident is because the rulers of my Aries MC and Leo ascendant are both in the 12th house so they tend to hide away. I also feel pulled in two ways between being overly considerate of everybody else ( to the detriment of myself and my own needs) and being' bold and brash'. As I've already commented, I have been more this way recently so maybe I'm growing into myself eh! The other worldy stuff you spoke about - again, spot on! I have to drag myself into the real world sometimes.

Thanks for your comments
Mia
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  #38  
Unread 03-11-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
My ninth harmonic chart sounds a bit heavy with all that Pluto/Saturn stuff and nearly a Grand Cross too (sorry, I would quote directly but don't know how to to it!) Do you know what the ninth house harmonic is indicative of? Even so, it is interesting. Are harmonic charts used extensively or for a particular purpose?
Actually, I posted the ninth harmonic charts on the forums by mistake, but I decided to keep them here because, supposedly, they are very important in Vedic Astrology...

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  #39  
Unread 03-11-2006, 07:39 PM
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The more I look at Harmonics, the less I'm convinced you can ascertain musical talent from a particular Harmonic chart. I think if all musicians were thrown into a database and there was a high correlation among certain aspects in certain charts, then I would think there is some statistical evidence to support being able to read the talent in the chart.

BTW - even if you have talent, it doesn't mean it will flower in ways you desire. The public is fickle. Example - keeping Kevin and getting rid of Gedeon on American Idol - People come on!!

The other piece of this that disturbs me is to think that our biggest talents equal our biggest interests or our best interests. I look at Woody Allen who plays the clarinet every week in a New Orlean jazz combo. He loves this music - it's in his movies but does he do it for money or career? No - he does it for love. So what difference does it make if talent shows up or not in a chart? If you gotta do it you'll do it.

If you're trying to pick a major in college - sure you'ld like to know what you would like to pursue in the end. But the beginning is an opportunity to try out different things so maybe you'll find passion in areas you would have never thought. Give yourself permission to explore! Try different things on and see how they fit. Who says your chart has to brand you one thing or another?

Kite
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  #40  
Unread 03-11-2006, 08:38 PM
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That's true...I believe I have been using astrology as a crutch, as I am seldom convinced of my own worth or talent :?

But I suppose the first step in solving a problem is admitting that you have one

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  #41  
Unread 03-13-2006, 07:08 PM
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Here is my chart,.... what could you say about musical and performing abilities??





any input is really apreciatted
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  #42  
Unread 03-13-2006, 07:20 PM
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Can you fix the URL codes or post your natal information here so I can upload the charts for you? It appears that you attempted to upload images through the Insert Image button on the forums...you must use an outside host site such as ImageShack.

Check out the thread Help : How do I post a picture? for a link to a guide I wrote on the Composite Grand Trine and T Square Forum

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  #43  
Unread 03-13-2006, 07:23 PM
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Done
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  #44  
Unread 03-13-2006, 10:05 PM
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Performing arts

Mary,

Since you have least aspected (strong energy) Sun (self-expression, also performing arts) focused in the 10th house, you may have the urge to perform as a career. Since you also have least aspected Mercury (thinking, also talking/daily work) sextile (energy goes easily with) Venus (relationships, also music, art) there may be an interest in communicating with music or some other type of art.

Charting,

Tim
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  #45  
Unread 03-14-2006, 12:50 AM
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Mary,

What stands out ot me about your chart is moon conjunct ASC - something I've seen a lot in musicians, actors and poets. Strong moon-ASC aspects, even difficult ones makes a lot of sense too in this regard, as these are very emotional and intuitive...and passive-aggressive....forms of communication and expression. The moon is expressive, but not aggressive, so it looks for other, less direct ways. With this conjunction in Gem, you'll definitely want to express yourself, your ideas and thoughts, bu that moon on your ASC would incline you to seek indirect means, possibly through writing, music or role-playing.

You also have Neptune oppo your moon - that is also significant. Water planets intensely aspecting each other can be a source of creative spark and vivid imagination (I have a similar aspect: Pluto rising oppo moon on DC).

Also significant is your Venus. Venus in 9th (I have this too), there's an intellectual bent to your creative drives. You can develop a very refined and sophisticated aesthetic that would be helpful in pursuing any creative pursuit, especially on a more advanced or even professional level. This aesthetic would not be exclusive to arts, though, and may be used in more mudane or pragmatic fields as well. Also, Pisces Venus is a very "musical" placement. It does give someone a very musical personality, even if they are not actually a musician. Musicians with this placement tend to be drawn to/create music that's deeply spiritual or emotional and their music tends to connect with people on a very intuitive level. Pisces-Vensuians tend to also have a highly intuitive understanding or connection with music themselves, and while they don't always possess outstanding technical skills, they do tend to have superb "musicality," a kind of sense of knowing what works musically.

Pallas conjunct Mars in the 3rd- there's your impetus. Either you have skills and talents and are eager to show the world, or you deeply desire to develop skills so to actively participate in something going on int he owrld. This needn't be especially artistic, but can be, espeically with your Libra placement. The 3rd house primary rules thought and communciation, and both are needed in artistic pursuit.

Like Tim mentioned, your 10th house Sun may indicate drive too (I have this as well). With it in Taurus, you're likely someone who deems arts and aesthetics as being very worthy pursuits, and may find a lot of self-validation in these activity. In this sense, the arts would bea good career path for you as it would re-inforce your Taurean essence.

You also have a couple of things that may stand in your way if you are trying to develop your musicianship or other creative pursuits: Marcury in Taurus and Mars in Libra. Both are difficult placements, and prone to procrastination and frustration. Both placements tend to want to throw the towel in too early and dislike hard work. The good news is both are good for creativity - if you don't succumb to their "darker" side. You will need to develop a lot of self-discipline (especially with a Gem moon) to see the fruits of your inherent talents and desires.
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  #46  
Unread 03-14-2006, 01:05 AM
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Thank you for your thorough analyses, Lunar Pisces! I'm learning a lot from your posts

Now if only I could learn to interpret my harmonic charts...

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  #47  
Unread 03-14-2006, 07:25 AM
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I'd love to be a rock star! But the short cash in this lifetime didin't let me flow to it easy! I got Venus Conjuct. Mars in 12H falling in Aries, trining Uranus conjunct Jupiter on my 8H which falls in Sagittarius! I heard it's a great aspect for a rock star
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  #48  
Unread 03-14-2006, 12:03 PM
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Lunar Pisces,


Thatīs correct!..., fantastic interpretation! Itīs true that sometimes I tend to "throw the towel" It took me some time to develop discipline.

Now, I know this thread is about musical ability either you earn your living from it or not. But Iīm just curious if my interpretation of myself is correct:

Considering that neptune (music) is in sagitarius (teaching, editing, publishing)in the 6th house (everyday life, employment), and it is is aspecting the ruler of 10th house(everything professional), Mars in the 3rd (primary education also writing and publishing, short travel) and co-ruler of 10th house Venus (art) in Pisces (Music) in the 9th (higher education). And that also mars is aspecting moon in gemini) (writing , comunicating ) and uranus in sagitarius in the 5th(high school education)
Also I must mention that 2nd house cusp (money, income) is in leo (self expresion, also performing and education) which regent, the sun, is in Taurus (art) in the 10th (career), is opposed to the 6th house sagitarius ruler, jupiter (teaching)

.... could I say that my job and profesion implies teaching music and the preforming arts in all educational levels??
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  #49  
Unread 03-14-2006, 12:25 PM
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Wilsontc,

Also my saturn in libra is least aspected (major aspect: opposed to MC) how would you consider this.....delays maybe??
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  #50  
Unread 03-14-2006, 02:37 PM
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inner structure

Mary,

In my opinion, there is a T-square (strong energy) between the nodes focused on Libra (relationships, also music, art) modifying least aspected (strong energy) Saturn (duty, also career, structure) conjunct (energy is combined with) Nadir (inner world). This indicates that developing an inner artistic structure (perhaps in music) is useful in develoing your career. It also suggests that developing this inner, artistic structure is a way to move from your South node (the past) focus on 7th house (relationships, also music, art) to your North node (being, also action). This is interesting because it indicates a development of your self personally out of your relationships with others, and this being accomplished by some sort of inner, artistic? structure.

Guessing,

Tim
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