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  #51  
Unread 11-28-2019, 09:08 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Pictures - or it didn’t happen! David
Graphics aren't yet in my skill-set. Here's a way to visualize the tropical Age Window in form of a trident, centered on the center-line of the Earth's elliptical orbit, with the center point affixed to the Point of Perihelion:

This Age Trident runs from Earth, at the center of the zodiac, to the circumference, and is pointing directly at tropical Capricorn. The leading tine of the trident is the Age-indicator for everyone as individuals. The center tine is for societies, and the last is for traditions. So, tradition is always one full Sign behind individuals, which connects us to the Age before ours.

These are Earth's Ages, and in the ancient Greek religion, the trident symbolized "Earthly Authority", bestowed by Gaea, personification of the Earth, over the 3 realms--The Sky (Zeus, a trident of 3-pronged lightening), the Sea (Poseidon, a fisherman's trident), and the Underworld (Pluto, a trident missing the middle prong, known as a bident).

Pluto's bident represents the Window itself, with its 2 prongs 30 degrees apart, now close to Convergence with the boundaries of tropical Capricorn. Two of the ancient gods with Earthly Authority are now approaching the outer prongs: Pluto is nearing the leading point, and Zeus/Jupiter is right at the trailing point.

Saturn is transiting within the Age Window also. Saturn is the current first-point holder of the Trident, which is pictured as the "Devil's Trident". Correlating, the early Roman Catholic Church, at the very beginning of the Age of tropical Capricorn, named him "Prince of this world".
It's a real Wang Dang Doodle going on between the prongs of Pluto's bident!

For Kiril: The tropical Age Trident has Direct-motion, and is approaching tropical Aquarius. So, both tropical and sidereal zodiacs show an Aquarian Age coming into view.


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Unread 11-28-2019, 09:32 PM
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Zeus/Jupiter is currently the third-point holder of the tropical Age Trident, and is Conjunct its most powerful Age-position for our times.

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Unread 11-28-2019, 09:52 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Graphics aren't yet in my skill-set.
Here's a way to visualize the tropical Age Window in form of a trident,
centered on the center-line of the Earth's elliptical orbit,
with the center point affixed to the Point of Perihelion:
Good news - "Gaias Trident" for those whose skillset includes graphics




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  #54  
Unread 11-28-2019, 10:27 PM
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And yet, Kiril uses the tropical zodiac for Charts.

None of these sidereal graphics negates the tropical Ages. They coexist along with the other versions, which cannot be pictured in a tropical Chart. The tropical Ages are a function of the Anomalistic Year, and Progression of the Perihelion, rather than the other type known as Precession of the Equinoxes. Both are the result of Earth's wobble as it rotates.

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  #55  
Unread 11-28-2019, 10:32 PM
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The third-point Trident holder, currently Jupiter, has Earthly Authority regarding tradition. So, if Jupiter incarnated as an astrologer, he'd be a Traditionalist.
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  #56  
Unread 11-29-2019, 12:40 AM
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Cheeky tonight, friend.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 12:50 AM
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Cheeky tonight, friend.
You disapprove?
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Unread 11-29-2019, 12:51 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

All,

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  #59  
Unread 11-29-2019, 01:22 AM
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Why the stars of the zodiacal constellations were important to the ancient Sumerians - because they are close to the ecliptic that marks the path of the Sun. And the Sun is this factor that created the tropical zodiac from which we can derive meanings.

So, in my opinion, which I support with Emeliyanov's research, the zodiac arose as a result of the interaction between the Sun and man (Earth), which gave birth to human civilization (respectively, life on earth). The sun is projected in the ecliptic on the celestial sphere, the earth is projected on the celestial sphere as the celestial equator (The celestial equator is the great circle of the imaginary celestial sphere on the same plane as the equator of Earth). The intersection of both is the point of the vernal (and autumn) equinox.


This is why this point is so important and it marks the beginning of the tropical zodiac.

Houses represent a local system between Earth and the Sun and are even more relevant than the signs.

In terms of ages, they are related to precession. Obviously, this movement must also be taken into account (but since the cycle is very long - 26,000 years, it would be relevant for the individual stages that humanity goes through - ages).

The equinox point is moving relative to the fixed stars, so we can look for a starting point in the fixed stars and track its displacement. But we can also say that the equinox is fixed and the constellations are displaced (because in the universe every movement is relative)




Indeed, we cannot see the vernal point, but we can see which constellation rises on the first day of spring. And today this is the Aquarius constellation.
The line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes is the original method, made famous by Karl Jung, pointing out the Ages in the equal-Sign, sidereal zodiac. And you're right, it is an Earth-Sun relationship, just as the Ecliptic is both the Earth's orbital plane projected out into space, and the Sun's path as it transits the zodiac.

So is the Line of Apsides and Earth's Point of Perihelion, an Earth-Sun relationship, which I'm using to point out the Ages in the tropical zodiac.

What I don't understand is why, as a tropicalist, you're so intent on using the constellations for the Ages. You've already explained them as being named seasonally, for a tropical calendar over 4000 years ago.

The true cause of the Ages isn't the constellations, it's Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. The Moon is also involved, in that regard.

Last edited by david starling; 11-29-2019 at 01:36 AM.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 01:57 AM
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You disapprove?
No, I didnít say that. Just noticed.
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  #61  
Unread 11-29-2019, 02:12 AM
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No, I didn’t say that. Just noticed.
Well, Venus and the Moon are Conj in Cap. And, my Mars rising in Pisces is Trine transiting Mars in Scorpio.
How about Jupiter about to ingress Capricorn? Any premonitions?
It goes in on Dec. 2nd.

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  #62  
Unread 11-29-2019, 03:04 AM
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Well, Venus and the Moon are Conj in Cap. And, my Mars rising in Pisces is Trine transiting Mars in Scorpio.
How about Jupiter about to ingress Capricorn? Any premonitions?
It goes in on Dec. 2nd.
Not excited. All I remember of Jupiter in Capricorn on a social level is the Lehman bankruptcy, and this time itís with Saturn-Pluto. What do you feel?

Where do these come from?

Quote:
This Age Trident runs from Earth, at the center of the zodiac, to the circumference, and is pointing directly at tropical Capricorn. The leading tine of the trident is the Age-indicator for everyone as individuals. The center tine is for societies, and the last is for traditions. So, tradition is always one full Sign behind individuals
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Unread 11-29-2019, 03:26 AM
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Not excited. All I remember of Jupiter in Capricorn on a social level is the Lehman bankruptcy, and this time it’s with Saturn-Pluto. What do you feel?

Where do these come from?
First, Second, and Third Worlds. Also, individuals create societies, and societies create traditions.
First World fosters individualism, Second World socialism, and Third World, traditionalism. The book, "The Lonely Crowd"-{David Riesman} probably inspired it. He termed them "Inner-Directed", "Other-Directed", and "Tradition-Directed". The ultimate goal was to combine all three in becoming a "Self-Directed" person.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 03:58 AM
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First, Second, and Third Worlds. Also, individuals create societies, and societies create traditions.
First World fosters individualism, Second World socialism, and Third World, traditionalism. The book, "The Lonely Crowd"-{David Riesman} probably inspired it. He termed them "Inner-Directed", "Other-Directed", and "Tradition-Directed". The ultimate goal was to combine all three in becoming a "Self-Directed" person.
Got it. I was wondering about the astrological connection of the worlds and the tines - how do you derive these?
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  #65  
Unread 11-29-2019, 06:35 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer. The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations (especially Sunlight). BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important. The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.
Therefore, it is important what the person sees. And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox, the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.
This will be the case for about 2000 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes is the original method, made famous by Karl Jung, pointing out the Ages in the equal-Sign, sidereal zodiac. And you're right, it is an Earth-Sun relationship, just as the Ecliptic is both the Earth's orbital plane projected out into space, and the Sun's path as it transits the zodiac.

So is the Line of Apsides and Earth's Point of Perihelion, an Earth-Sun relationship, which I'm using to point out the Ages in the tropical zodiac.

What I don't understand is why, as a tropicalist, you're so intent on using the constellations for the Ages. You've already explained them as being named seasonally, for a tropical calendar over 4000 years ago.

The true cause of the Ages isn't the constellations, it's Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. The Moon is also involved, in that regard.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 07:08 AM
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Got it. I was wondering about the astrological connection of the worlds and the tines - how do you derive these?
Sagittarius blended with Capricorn, under some version of Jupiterian authority for the 3rd point. The expressions "First World" and "Third World" used to be more widely used. Now it's "developed" and 'developing" nations. The Second World wasn't used, it was "Socialist" or " Communist". That would include "Fascist dictatorship". The First World is Capricorn blended with Aquarius, under Saturnian authority, like the Second World, but with more freedom of expression. The forced vaccinations are a second point characteristic. Whereas, gay marriage and drug legalization are first point.
Is this what you mean? Not sure about how you're using the word "derived". I'm just making correlations based on leading point, center-point and trailing point placements. Rather vague, I know, but it hasn't been a major area of study for me.
Btw, have you read "The Lonely Crowd" ?

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Unread 11-29-2019, 07:47 AM
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Oh, well, these are 3 simultaneous phases of the Earth's, meaning the "World's" Ages. The vast power and scope of the Age-effect on our psyches is too complex and multidimensional to be described by a single point, or even a single line, Age-indicator.

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Unread 11-29-2019, 01:00 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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The line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes is the original method, made famous by Karl Jung, pointing out the Ages in the equal-Sign, sidereal zodiac. And you're right, it is an Earth-Sun relationship, just as the Ecliptic is both the Earth's orbital plane projected out into space, and the Sun's path as it transits the zodiac.
So is the Line of Apsides and Earth's Point of Perihelion, an Earth-Sun relationship, which I'm using to point out the Ages in the tropical zodiac.
What I don't understand is why, as a tropicalist, you're so intent on using the constellations for the Ages. You've already explained them as being named seasonally, for a tropical calendar over 4000 years ago.
The true cause of the Ages isn't the constellations, it's Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. The Moon is also involved, in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post

I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer.

The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations

(especially Sunlight).

BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important.
The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.

Therefore, it is important what the person sees.
And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox,
the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.

This will be the case for about 2000 years.
i.e

2019 AD - Today, if we go out one hour before sunrise
on the day of the spring equinox
we shall view the stars of the constellation Aquarius
rising above the horizon.
We are already in the Age of Aquarius.
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  #69  
Unread 11-29-2019, 02:12 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer. The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations (especially Sunlight). BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important. The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.
Therefore, it is important what the person sees. And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox, the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.
This will be the case for about 2000 years.
I agree that the light coming from the stars is more important than they have been accredited. I agree that we are already in Aquarius. From my readings of ancient scriptures, and Burgoyne and (Bachelet Norelli, although I disagree with some of her writings, her time lines are very interesting.

The Nag Hamadi's give the stars their due importance in the sky, to humankind.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 03:08 PM
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Sagittarius blended with Capricorn, under some version of Jupiterian authority for the 3rd point. The expressions "First World" and "Third World" used to be more widely used. Now it's "developed" and 'developing" nations. The Second World wasn't used, it was "Socialist" or " Communist". That would include "Fascist dictatorship". The First World is Capricorn blended with Aquarius, under Saturnian authority, like the Second World, but with more freedom of expression. The forced vaccinations are a second point characteristic. Whereas, gay marriage and drug legalization are first point.
Is this what you mean? Not sure about how you're using the word "derived". I'm just making correlations based on leading point, center-point and trailing point placements. Rather vague, I know, but it hasn't been a major area of study for me.
Btw, have you read "The Lonely Crowd" ?
Oh, I see. The diagrams would help someone like me understand the points and lines. You could do a paper sketch and snap a photo with your phone and upload it

Will check out The Lonely Crowd. Just read excerpts in college. Love sociology.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer. The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations (especially Sunlight). BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important. The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.
Therefore, it is important what the person sees. And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox, the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.
This will be the case for about 2000 years.

So, for Ascendant, Sun, Moon, planets, Nodes, etc. you use the tropical zodiac at a specific time and place. And, tropically, the first point of Aries is timed exactly to the Vernal Equinox.
Then, for just the astrological effect of the Ages, and that alone, you switch to heliacally viewing the once-and-long-ago-tropical constellations from anywhere during an entire 24 hour period on the day of the Vernal Equinox.

If it weren't for the original method of using the line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes in a calculated, sidereal zodiac, neither of us, along with everyone else, would have known about an Aquarian Age to begin with.

We just took a different approach: I looked for a way to determine the Ages in a tropical Chart, in a manner commensurate with the way they're determined sidereally; whereas, you decided to simply abandon the calculated Charts altogether, regarding the astrological influence of the Ages.

All right, I agree to disagree on the basis of method; but, at least we agree on an Aquarian Age as important to life on the planet, and its major influence on future developments.

Just what those developments will be, is another source of controversy. You seem to be connecting it to war and technology (and please correct me if this isn't the case). I connect it to freeing our minds, and enabling us to fully comprehend the nature of the light from the stars, in terms of its affect on our psyches. The term "Ascension", in its esoteric sense, comes to mind.

Last edited by david starling; 11-29-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 08:15 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

I connect the Aquarius age with gender equality, technology development, independence wars.



I also associate this age with floods.
(in ancient Sumer, when Aquarius was heliacally rising during the year, river floods occurred). That is why the sign has this name.
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Unread 11-29-2019, 08:25 PM
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I connect the Aquarius age with gender equality, technology development, independence wars.



I also associate this age with floods.
(in ancient Sumer, when Aquarius was heliacally rising during the year, river floods occurred). That is why the sign has this name.
Yes, heavy rains, with the image of an overflowing basin. It's also connected to the Aquariid meteor showers that appear along the radiant line of the constellation.

Here's the BIG question: What do you see as the Age-sign ruler for Aquarius? I'm going with Uranian rulership, not Saturnian.

Last edited by david starling; 11-29-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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Unread 11-30-2019, 01:51 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

With the Aquarian age, are you are seeing floods as the main detriment?

I do not. It's symbol is Man. I think Man will be the main detriment. Aquarius is an air sign. Man would seem determined to pollute the air. Man has caged the water. I see the water pouring forth, as the water breaking free from the commodity control that has warehoused and metered water, and is charging large dollars for clean, usable water.

Floods will happen, as will Fire and Earthquakes, but I do not see them as the catalyst. Man is the catalyst in the Age of Aquarius.

My 1.5 cents.
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Unread 11-30-2019, 01:59 AM
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With the Aquarian age, are you are seeing floods as the main detriment?

I do not. It's symbol is Man. I think Man will be the main detriment. Aquarius is an air sign. Man would seem determined to pollute the air. Man has caged the water. I see the water pouring forth, as the water breaking free from the commodity control that has warehoused and metered water, and is charging large dollars for clean, usable water.

Floods will happen, as will Fire and Earthquakes, but I do not see them as the catalyst. Man is the catalyst in the Age of Aquarius.

My 1.5 cents.
So, Fish were the catalyst for the sidereal Age of Pisces?
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