Oddity
Well-known member
Osa has the right of it. But I won't respond to your threads after that unprovoked attack. Some people simply aren't worth the time.
Astrology of a killer
- Thread starter TaurusTime92
- Start date
Osa has the right of it. But I won't respond to your threads after that unprovoked attack. Some people simply aren't worth the time.
Osamenor
Staff member
And what I started to say before the discussion took some other twists and turns:
His big obsessions seem to me to have everything to do with his fifth house placements in Capricorn, and it makes the most sense if his moon and Uranus were also in the fifth house. Reading up, it looks like the main thing he was obsessed with was pleasure and that he wasn't having it. He said he envied couples because they were happy. He wanted to kill people with the most active sex lives because they were getting the most pleasure out of life.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/california-shooting-revelations/
Fifth house is about pleasure, and Capricorn is restrictiveness. But it's not just that he had his fifth house cusp in Capricorn, or even that he had multiple fifth house Capricorn placements. I think what really got him on that downward spiral was that he'd gone that route in the karmic past and never reoriented himself.
Moon rules his south node. In reading the south node story, we read every placement involved for its negative meanings. If the south node ruler is in Capricorn in the fifth house, that suggests a karmic past in which he had a dogged and dreary approach to pleasure, doing plenty of things that should be pleasurable but never getting any real enjoyment from them. In other words, addictive behavior. A hardcore alcoholic gets little or no pleasure from drinking. A gambling addict gambles obsessively, like a chore. Even getting addicted to computer solitaire can turn into that kind of drudgery.
His moon is in stellium with the very planets that suggest escapist behavior/addiction (Neptune) and gambling and other pursuits with unpredictable outcomes (Uranus). Neptune is in opposition to his south node, as is Uranus if we use a very wide orb. Moon is out of orb of opposition, but because of its affiliation with Uranus and Neptune, I think it's safe to count it as an opposing influence. In the karmic story, what's in opposition to the south node indicates what was an insurmountable obstacle in the past. South node's ruler in opposition indicates that he was his own insurmountable obstacle. Neptune and Uranus indicate addiction; Uranus in particular suggests a gambling addiction, although substances and other addictive behaviors could also have been involved.
Rodger wasn't just obsessed with the pleasure and the girlfriend he didn't have, he also got obsessed with wealth. His family was well to do, but not rich enough by the standards in his mind. In the months before he died, he decided he deserved to get rich and would do so by winning the lottery. He obsessively played lottery and powerball, driving back and forth between California and Arizona to buy tickets in both states. When he didn't win, he spiraled more out of control.
Sounds like a perfect case of moon/Uranus conjunction in Capricorn in the fifth: Capricorn drive to get rich and be on top, moon making it a deep emotional need, and Uranus suggesting that the way to do it would be to do something with an unpredictable outcome. In the fifth house, games fit the picture best. If he'd had that same conjunction in the sixth house instead, he probably would've been inclined to work for his money instead of play for it, but he'd probably have chosen a form of work that resembles gambling--being a stockbroker, for instance, or flipping real estate. If the conjunction were in the fourth house, he'd have probably gone into real estate, fourth house being connected to land. Gambling? Fifth house.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
That's stereotyping ~ clearly not all Virgo Risings are virgins
that's also sterotyping ~ not all Virgo Suns are 'OCD super anal'
But 'As close as possible' may be too far away
Usually off by at least fifteen minutes either way
that's because
at time of delivery the medical team are focused on the health and safety of mother and newborn
and not on the clock
keep in mind also that there may be complications
and then
by the time someone checks the clock much time may have passed
even if in London especially time of birth is not recorded on birth certificates
birth times in London that take place in a hospital ARE recorded on MEDICAL NOTES
but obviously
offical time of birth CANNOT be noted until AFTER a birth occurs
and also because hospital procedures regarding documentation vary
and the official time of birth is often estimated
up to an hour or more can pass
before time of birth is noted from memory
keep in mind also that timepieces may not necessarily be accurate
watches are often 'off' by ten minutes or more
the timepiece may not have been adjusted for clocks moving forward or back
add to that human error of typos and inadvertently literally writing down the wrong time
and clearly an astrologer is wise to begin by ascertaining whether the time of birth reflects the physical appearance as well as events in the life
chart rectification is a time-consuming exercise
BASIC STEPS for natal chart rectification:
List all major life events
such as academic rewards, degree, diplomas, exams passed,
operations, hospital admissions of any kind, accidents,
relocation to a new home, relocation abroad,
marriages, divorces,
births, deaths,
starting first job, leaving old job, starting new job
When looking back at transits for major events in life,
as well as noting all aspects from transiting planets to the angles,
note in particular aspects from all the rulers of the ASC/MC/IC/DESC to other planets
as well as to the angles themselves
focus on the seven visible planets to begin with,
those provide more than enough aspects to analyse
especially given many exact dates of events to check
by the way,
important to exclude dates that are: "give or take a couple of weeks" as being totally too inaccurate
Specific dates for major events means the actual exact day as well as the precise time of the occurrence
craft94
Well-known member
I could see him being a Leo Rising, especially considering he had other placements (venus and mars) in Virgo. He seems to have that egocentric, arrogant attitude (not that all Leos are like that obviously), that women were made for him, and because these women did not give HIM what HE wants, they need to be shot dead. If he were to have any planets in the first house (especially that mars venus conjunction), this might further his egotistic attitude. Hey, he's outgoing enough to release a video on YouTube detailing what he's doing, and to be honest, I think a lot of these shooters do it for the attention, so they can be on the news, further their twisted "causes" etc. I don't buy any of this, "he's a shy kid, bullied, mentally ill, etc. it's such a shocker" ********. It just furthers the stigma of people who actually are suffering from mental illness, being bullied, etc. It's such a common trope, cliche, almost an excuse.
Capricorn is a very status-oriented sign, and of course, in our culture, men are taught to view women as objects, status-markers. Virginity is viewed as a character flaw and how many women you sleep with is indicative of your worth, where you are on the social ladder. Osamenar is definitely right: the mars-venus conjunction might make him very sensitive to this gender dynamic.
Chiron conjunct Sun shows a wounded personality?
Capricorn is a very status-oriented sign, and of course, in our culture, men are taught to view women as objects, status-markers. Virginity is viewed as a character flaw and how many women you sleep with is indicative of your worth, where you are on the social ladder. Osamenar is definitely right: the mars-venus conjunction might make him very sensitive to this gender dynamic.
Chiron conjunct Sun shows a wounded personality?
TaurusTime92
Banned
Chiron is the wounded healer.
unique_astrology
Well-known member
Prog demi-anlunar derived from my speculative chart for Rodger.
Rodger's demi-solar demi-anlunar prog to the time of the shootings and his death.
Prog anlunar Moon is on the MC, prog anlunar Pluto is on the Desc covering his natal and prog Neptunes.
Total lunar eclipse placed around the chart shows the trigger - eclipse Mars square the Desc and eclipse Pluto on the Desc.
Rodger's demi-solar demi-anlunar prog to the time of the shootings and his death.
Prog anlunar Moon is on the MC, prog anlunar Pluto is on the Desc covering his natal and prog Neptunes.
Total lunar eclipse placed around the chart shows the trigger - eclipse Mars square the Desc and eclipse Pluto on the Desc.
Attachments
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TaurusTime92
Banned
What does that all mean? I'm still learning
unique_astrology
Well-known member
The explanation of the technique would be too long for me to type out. Search for solar returns, demi-solar returns, anlunars and demi-anlunars. The progression of lunar returns was a discovery of mine about forty years ago.
The charts must be precessed and the rate of progression of the MC is the arc of the Moon in right ascension from inception of the return to the time of the event, about 13 degrees each day, the progressing angles aspecting every return, natal, progressed natal, and transiting planet in it's 2 week life by conjunction, square or opposition, as well as the minor aspects if one uses them.
Demi-returns are used as I found them to perform better than the base lunar return when events occur more than 2 weeks after it's inception. The same is the reason for using precessed charts rather than plain Tropical charts. I check eclipses for the previous year for inclusion.
In this case return Moon and Pluto on the angles of the progressed chart may indicate enormous stress for Rodger. His progressed Moon-Mars midpoint on the chart's Nadir is an indication of his anger vented at the time. On the return's descendant, return (transit) Pluto on his natal and progressed Neptunes may indicate a psychotic break.
The charts must be precessed and the rate of progression of the MC is the arc of the Moon in right ascension from inception of the return to the time of the event, about 13 degrees each day, the progressing angles aspecting every return, natal, progressed natal, and transiting planet in it's 2 week life by conjunction, square or opposition, as well as the minor aspects if one uses them.
Demi-returns are used as I found them to perform better than the base lunar return when events occur more than 2 weeks after it's inception. The same is the reason for using precessed charts rather than plain Tropical charts. I check eclipses for the previous year for inclusion.
In this case return Moon and Pluto on the angles of the progressed chart may indicate enormous stress for Rodger. His progressed Moon-Mars midpoint on the chart's Nadir is an indication of his anger vented at the time. On the return's descendant, return (transit) Pluto on his natal and progressed Neptunes may indicate a psychotic break.
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keywine89
Well-known member
Last year a 22-year-old man named Elliot Rodger shot 3 and stabbed 3 to death in Isla Vista (next to Santa Barbara). He was mad that he was a virgin at 22 and felt that since he was rich and attractive he deserved sex and blonde women whom he coveted. He also uploaded videos to YouTube and penned a 147-page manifesto where he talked about the trials and tribulations of his life from childhood in England to his move to California at age 6 all the way up to a few months before his May 23rd, 2014 killing spree. People assumed he had Asbergers and Autism.
I see he had Sun opposite Saturn which shows him having self-esteem issues like he mentioned. He also had a Venus-Mars conjunction which shows he was into sex and loving like he mentioned over and over again in his videos and manifesto. I think his Cancer/Leo cusp caused him to be the shy guy he was, but yet caused him to be super conceited.
Just my two cents but I think he may have been a pisces ascending. If he was, mars/venus would have fell in his 7th house. It would make total sense.. in his case. Mars in the 7th is an indication of physical and verbal altercations. The mars/venus conjunction gives him a love/hate complex for the opposite sex. The problem with conjunctions is they become annoyances. Especially, since he has venus exalted then mars detriment. As for the shy demeanor, pisces ascending coupled with a capricorn moon.. he comes off elusive. But his verbal conceit comes from his haughtier than thou mercury leo!
TaurusTime92
Banned
Just my two cents but I think he may have been a pisces ascending. If he was, mars/venus would have fell in his 7th house. It would make total sense.. in his case. Mars in the 7th is an indication of physical and verbal altercations. The mars/venus conjunction gives him a love/hate complex for the opposite sex. The problem with conjunctions is they become annoyances. Especially, since he has venus exalted then mars detriment. As for the shy demeanor, pisces ascending coupled with a capricorn moon.. he comes off elusive. But his verbal conceit comes from his haughtier than thou mercury leo!
He was born in the morning he said, and most astrologers who looked at his chart said Virgo or Leo
keywine89
Well-known member
My apologies! I overlooked the obvious, virgo in the 12th house is detriment. Ok so I looked at the chart again and I get it now. Pisces rules his 7th house. Although empty, the 12th house and 5th house are most important. Neptune in the 5th house shows strong idealism in romance. He probably put his past gfs on a pedestal only to be cheated on. I'm guessing he gave alot only to be given nothing. Hence, him being a virgin.
Also, neptune is also known for hidden agendas. So possibly he was being used for whatever he gave them. As for the 12th house, of hidden tensions and unrealism, he clearly had an unhealthy mentality when it came to his "pursuits". Since virgo is a perfectionist, the 12th house deluded him into thinking he was "perfect". Hence the conceit. Mars virgo can really make someone believe their own hype. Now add leo mercury in the 12th house and you get the picture..
Osamenor
Staff member
He never had a girlfriend in the first place. That was discussed several posts back. He never even approached any women.My apologies! I overlooked the obvious, virgo in the 12th house is detriment. Ok so I looked at the chart again and I get it now. Pisces rules his 7th house. Although empty, the 12th house and 5th house are most important. Neptune in the 5th house shows strong idealism in romance. He probably put his past gfs on a pedestal only to be cheated on. I'm guessing he gave alot only to be given nothing. Hence, him being a virgin.
The chart Taurus Time posted is not necessarily the right chart. If we go by the time of birth Rodger himself gave, his ascendant is at 29 Leo, so none of Virgo would be in his twelfth house. I think 29 Leo makes more sense, for reasons that have already been discussed.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Without a precise time of birth it's simply speculation
Just my two cents but I think he may have been a pisces ascending. If he was, mars/venus would have fell in his 7th house. It would make total sense.. in his case. Mars in the 7th is an indication of physical and verbal altercations. The mars/venus conjunction gives him a love/hate complex for the opposite sex. The problem with conjunctions is they become annoyances. Especially, since he has venus exalted then mars detriment. As for the shy demeanor, pisces ascending coupled with a capricorn moon.. he comes off elusive. But his verbal conceit comes from his haughtier than thou mercury leo!
and there is no certainty regarding whether this is correct either
TaurusTime92
Banned
Without a precise time of birth it's simply speculation
and there is no certainty regarding whether this is correct either
Well he wrote in his manifesto he was born in the morning.
Blackempress
Well-known member
Psychopathy is all about emotional dysregulation. Here's a Leo (emotionally immature) with an inflated ego and sense of entitlement of being rich, lovable and popular who could not find happiness. The chart suggests at multiple points that he felt restrained and unable to 'feel joy' due to over sensitivity, self-critical approaches and feeling misunderstood.
Emotional indicators- A well-aspected Moon Trine Asc. (Critical, sensitive, practical and 'dry' Capricorn)
Sun-Conj Chiron (as stated, he had a hole in his soul)
Jupiter in 12th house (afraid to expand)
5th house of creativity in Capricorn (probably felt 'unproductive' and guilty for 'having fun' and losing what he had).
Nodes In Cancer-Capricorn. (Need for nurturance, family and stability) Society/networks owed him that.
Venus is in fall- trine Uranus- he wanted something exciting further supported by Mars-Uranus and a distinct Moon-Uranus which was the main feature behind his 'dissociation' from the pain/feelings that he had.
If he didn't have so much resentment I do believe he might've been a very charming person with all the Leo effect and he could've done something creative with his talents if he had gotten the attention he felt he deserved.
With the prominent Saturn (dominant)-chiron, Capricorn, Virgo and SN, I think it was his 'impotence' in every sense that made him externalize his self-hatred.
Emotional indicators- A well-aspected Moon Trine Asc. (Critical, sensitive, practical and 'dry' Capricorn)
Sun-Conj Chiron (as stated, he had a hole in his soul)
Jupiter in 12th house (afraid to expand)
5th house of creativity in Capricorn (probably felt 'unproductive' and guilty for 'having fun' and losing what he had).
Nodes In Cancer-Capricorn. (Need for nurturance, family and stability) Society/networks owed him that.
Venus is in fall- trine Uranus- he wanted something exciting further supported by Mars-Uranus and a distinct Moon-Uranus which was the main feature behind his 'dissociation' from the pain/feelings that he had.
If he didn't have so much resentment I do believe he might've been a very charming person with all the Leo effect and he could've done something creative with his talents if he had gotten the attention he felt he deserved.
With the prominent Saturn (dominant)-chiron, Capricorn, Virgo and SN, I think it was his 'impotence' in every sense that made him externalize his self-hatred.
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TaurusTime92
Banned
I want to preface this by saying I don't condone his actions, and what he did was disgusting and wrong, but I can understand how a bad chart lended to him going crazy and murdering people. Like you said, he could have used his Leo larger than life persona for good, but he didn't know how. He just wanted to be praised all the time like a king, and obviously that'd never happen unless he was royalty.
His manifesto was pretty well-written; he could've harnessed his writing prowess into writing for a blog or getting his famous dad to get him in touch with screenwriters who could teach him how to perfect his craft.
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Cary2
Banned
I have used midpoints extensively for years, and I have researched murder charts. There are a few common murder signals based on that, but the most common I have found is a Mars/Uranus/Pluto picture.
That may form with Mars aspecting Uranus/Pluto or Uranus aspecting Mars/Pluto or Pluto aspecting Mars/Uranus.
Our killer has it two ways. He has Mars that is quintile Pluto even as it is trine to Uranus, and he has Uranus squaring the Mars/Pluto midpoint.
Sometimes you will see Mars/Pluto/Saturn, and sometimes you see Mars/Pluto prominent like Sun/Mars/Pluto or Mars/Mc/Pluto, etc.
Many people commented on his arrogance and entitlement. "Supreme arrogance" has often been reported with toxic Mars/Pluto aspects. Mars/Uranus aspects are also assertive, and they often provoke intolerance and impatience and sudden acts of cruelty.
That may form with Mars aspecting Uranus/Pluto or Uranus aspecting Mars/Pluto or Pluto aspecting Mars/Uranus.
Our killer has it two ways. He has Mars that is quintile Pluto even as it is trine to Uranus, and he has Uranus squaring the Mars/Pluto midpoint.
Sometimes you will see Mars/Pluto/Saturn, and sometimes you see Mars/Pluto prominent like Sun/Mars/Pluto or Mars/Mc/Pluto, etc.
Many people commented on his arrogance and entitlement. "Supreme arrogance" has often been reported with toxic Mars/Pluto aspects. Mars/Uranus aspects are also assertive, and they often provoke intolerance and impatience and sudden acts of cruelty.
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