USA charts - the ultimate debate

BobZemco

Well-known member
Sunrise charts are always dependable. But, if we want to prove or disprove any birth time we need to take each and compare to major events, as many as possible.

No, that is not the purpose or function of Natal Charts.

That is not the purpose of Astrology either. We already have a discipline that explains the past, that being History....or Herstory.

As a reminder to those who might be suffering from terminal confusion, the only time we cast charts to look at the Past, is when we do not know what happened. That is the reason we cast Forensic Charts and Mundane Event Charts, so that we might see what transpired leading up to a person's death or disappearance, or to an event that may have numerous unintended consequences politically or socially.

If you believe you have the correct Natal Chart for the USA, then prove it by making accurate predictions of events in the Future....

...since that is the only reason Astrology exists...to predict Future Events.

A bona fide astrological prediction is stated in terms relevant to the duration of the event itself.

Specific Event X will occur on Date, or Specific Event X will occur on Date +/- 14 Days are both bona fide astrological predictions.

Specific Event X will occur sometime in 2013 is not a bona fide astrological prediction.

Country 'A' will enter recession in Month X, or Country 'A' will enter recession in Calendar/Fiscal Quarter X are bona fide astrological predictions.

Country 'A' will enter into economic problems sometime between 2013 and 2015 is not a bona fide astrological prediction.

If you cannot make bona fide astrological predictions using your chart, then your chart is worthless; of no value whatsoever.

I hope that clarifies things.
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
Thank you Bob, for your well thought out reply. You leave me with a little confusion I hope is not terminal. I guess everyone that spends time looking at countless past events when doing a rectification is just wasting their time. They should makes some predictions on what ever chart is thrown out there and see if it sticks? I just don't have enough time, or haven't so far, to make more time specific predictions for a country who's time of birth hasn't been proven. I would be more than happy, though, to read your predictions. Do you have them published somewhere.
As a reminder to those who might be suffering from terminal confusion, the only time we cast charts to look at the Past, is when we do not know what happened.
We don't know exactly what happened in the past, now do we? I have terminal confusion when I attempt to trust Herstory books. In my lifetime, I've seen textbooks say our founding fathers came here to make a home where they could practice their religion freely. But the books were later rewritten to say it was to reap the wealth of the land. I suspect you might not take my word for that so I visited google to see what info might be out there to back up what I've seen. Prof. Kyle Ward has written a book I can't wait to read because he has a section on some of my ancestors. My family is rewriting history, omitting certain uncomfortable facts. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781595580443

Sometimes I like to cast a chart for the event of a phone call to me to gain insight that the stars offer, so I did that for your reply to me, last night, 8:29pm Kalamazoo, MI, where the recipient is located. I can see why "terminal confusion" was a part of your reply, Pisces and Neptune rising. Your chosen sign is prominent through 19Sag56 being on the MC, so no doubt where you stand. Jupiter is backing up our critical Sun degree, right now too. Sun seems intent on war though, conjunct Mercury in the 6th, approaching the descendant. I am an American but don't want war with you or Syria. There are better ways that accomplish much more good.

So, why are you in the 5th house, the 8th from the 10th? Why are you in mutual reception with Mars who is also in mutual reception with Saturn in Scorpio, led by the Dragon's head? Your mind may be made up but mine isn't because I haven't seen any of them proved sufficiently. Sure, some events can be shown with any chart that resonates to the entity. I've seen events in one person's chart shown in another family member's chart better than in their own. Are you sure Sag isn't the rising sign of one of the key colonies or founding fathers?

ETA: I just realized, religious freedom, fitting Sag rising or perhaps Sag on the house of goals, is what the history textbooks of the 50s and 60s promoted. But, then when the 70s came around it changed to raping the land for financial gain. That would either be Taurus, if you just saw it as gaining moveable good. But Scorpio fits that better, I think, because we took all sorts of things that belonged to the native Americans. This isn't a history I'm proud of, just like parts of my family history. But it is what it is.
 
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It is my oppinion that the Gemini rising horoscope is the actual chart of the USA because Evangeline Adams predicted entry into WWII and the Stock Market crisis using that map from what I understand.

See this thread for details:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65445

Re: Predicting WWIII
Perhaps some of the Forum membership has read some of Evangeline Adams books as listed:

http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r...&ved=0CIoBELMY

What Evangeline Adams Knew

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0972511709

Quote:
Once the world's most famous astrologer, Evangeline Adams single-handedly popularized astrology in the United States. Now, for the first time, Adams' biographer, astrologer Karen Christino, uncovers all of her astrological secrets. In an easy-to-understand format, you'll discover: - How Adams predicted World War II and the stock market crash of 1929 - How Evangeline foresaw death for Enrico Caruso and Rudolph Valentino - How she chose presidential winners - Evangeline's work with the magician Aleister Crowley, and for clients like Edgar Cayce, Joseph Campbell, Eugene O'Neill and Tallulah Bankhead - Evangeline on trial, with actual court transcripts - How Evangeline chose travel and wedding dates, and analyzed marriage potential in the horoscope
Bold added by yours truly!

Evidently many differ with your opinion Bob Zemco, and yes we all know any fool can write books or put something on the internet, but if the source is published before the event there you have it!

http://solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/adams.html

Quote:

Herb Kugel says in his article, "The Stars on Trial: The Story of Evangeline Adams," in The Mountain Astrologer, Feb/Mar, 2000, p. 53:
"Evangeline Adams was one of the most important influences on the development of American astrology as we currently know it. She became famous because of a tragic hotel fire in which many people perished. Her career climaxed with a precedent-setting court case in which she demanded that astrology itself be placed on trial.
adamshead-kk.jpg
"Adams came from the same illustrious family as two American presidents, John Adams and John Quincy Adams; however, she dismayed her conservative New England relations by, "dabbling in heathenism," that is, by wanting to become an astrologer. She became a very successful astrologer and gave advice and comfort to about 100,000 people during her 40-year career.
"Her clients ranged from the poor and unknown to the powerful and famous. She taught astrology to financier John Pierpont Morgan, who once stated, 'Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do." Tenor Enrico Caruso never crossed the ocean during World War I without first consulting Adams to obtain the safest dates for sailing."
NOTE: To read this fascinating five-page article, with details about Adam's colorful life and her landmark trial, contact The Mountain Astrologer for this and other back issues.

To read a long summary of the Adams case with some verbatim documents, visit Carlo Ravin's tribute to Walter Coleman a pioneer in astrology and the law.

....snip...

About What Evangeline Adams Knew

Once the world's most famous astrologer, Evangeline Adams single-handedly popularized astrology in the United States. Now, for the first time, Adams' biographer, astrologer Karen Christino, uncovers all of her astrological secrets. In an easy-to-understand format, you'll discover:

. How Adams predicted World War II and the stock market crash of 1929
Karen Christino on www.skyscript.co.uk says otherwise about the Hotel Fire and other predictions than your findings Bob Zemco:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/adams.html

Quote:
...... She claimed to have successfully predicted the Windsor Hotel fire in New York City in 1899, and moved there in 1905.
........In a January 2nd 1927 lecture she utilised the cycle of Uranus in the US chart and said "the signs point to a war .... for religious, racial and political reasons, in 1942, 1943 and 1944". Uranus aspecting Jupiter in the US chart, she said, also warned of impending financial difficulties: "In 1928 and 1929... it behooves everyone to be extremely cautious in investment and money matters, and be prepared for this threatening configuration of planets". The stock market crash occurred in October of 1929. ........
Well Bob Zemco this source says the fire was predicted and the part about entering WWII in:

http://www.answers.com/topic/evangeline-smith-adams

Quote:
She became nationally known when she read a chart for the owner of New York's Windsor Hotel on Fifth Avenue predicting a serious disaster that would take place almost immediately. The hotel owner was unaware of any impending problems and took no action, but the next day his hotel was destroyed by fire. The resulting media publicity brought Evangeline Adams immediate fame nationwide. In 1914 she was prosecuted for "fortune-telling" but contested the case in court. She demonstrated her methods of work and made an accurate prediction concerning the judge's son. Judge John H. Freschi acquitted her, stating: "The defendant has raised astrology to the dignity of an exact science."
Adams published various books and pamphlets on astrology, and many famous individuals (including J. Pierpont Morgan, Mary Pickford, singer Enrico Caruso, and King Edward VII of Britain) visited her headquarters at Carnegie Hall. From1930 onward she broadcast three times weekly, and received thousands of letters requesting astrological readings. As early as 1931, she predicted that the United States would be at war in 1942. In 1932 she was booked for a 21-night lecture tour but canceled it after predicting her own death, which duly occurred. She is generally recognized as the leading astrologer of her time who laid the groundwork for professional astrology in the United States. She died in New York November 10, 1933.


Also note in the Gemini rising horoscope the lord of the 7th is combust and according to Lilly that is a very bad thing, about the worst that can happen to a lord or planet.

1) With Jupiter(7H lord)) combust both foreign relations are awry as well as covenants or marriages with the USA. The U.S. currently has a 50-75% divorce rate which is fitting for the trends in the U.S.

2) Every treaty the USA has signed with the native nations on this continent they have broken. Very fitting with their combustion contract house.

3) Note the Moon in Aquarius, independent women, and in the 10th the emphasis is on career, status, reputation, etc. In other words women citizens in the USA are more concerned with their career or status than their overall relalationships to husband or their offspring. Like the former East Germany's Moon in the 10th house, career oreinted women whom were powerful, and the women of the USA are perhaps the most powerful women on the planet despite the dyusfunctional family environments that they have helped create.

Hilary Clinton is to me the tradgic symbol of Moon in Aquarius in the 10th, a woman who is more obsessed with her status and power and true family values are on the back burner or rather the domestic goddess is serving T.V. dinners or bringing home fast food and the contrary role of moon in cancer and the 4H, the ideals far from present in her symbolic role of the ill fated American woman!

Note also the over-emphasis upon wealth, money, finances in the USA with the Sun cjt Jupiter in the 2nd!
.
 
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Estrellero

Active member
Some thoughts:

The first is that the letter of the Ascendant in Gemini, especially for versions of 2:14 a.m. and 2:17 a.m, has Ascendant in Gemini 9th conjunct Uranus. The official Sibly chart has Ascendant in Sagittarius 9th, in opposition to Uranus. Both cards have their Ascending exactly in place of Descending of the another. The same transits and progressions that indicate significant events in a chart, indicated them in the other, only that what is in conjunctions on Ascendant, in the other chart is on Descendant. Therefore, both charts are useful. Antares-Aldebaran axis (or Aldebaran-Antares for those who prefer so), decisive in the history of USA, is exactly the same in both charts.

Supporters of chart Gemini-Ascendent argue that the sign of USA must be Gemini, by the geminian characteristics they attribute to their country. In contrast, the ones who observe to USA from outside would rather attribute it sagittarian characteristics. They are two sides of the same coin.

Unless Franklin, Jefferson and the other followers of astrology among the Founding Fathers had organized a night party in a masonic lodge to celebrate at this unusual time 2:17 am (who had supposedly calculated by them as optimum) an esoteric or symbolic proclamation of independence, and analyzing the subject from the historical point of view, it is clear that a daytime hour is more appropriate for an official or public proclamation. Probably at 2:17 a.m. most of them were sleeping at home.

In 1776 (since then it has rolled about 3° by the phenomenon of precession) Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, was on 12th Cancer, exactly conjunct the natal Sun of the Great Republic of July 4th , which provides honors, awards, praise and wealth. Sirius was fundamental to ancient Egyptians, and if the Founding Fathers were all masons and therefore familiar with egyptian symbology (shown in dollar bills), it is normal that they would have ensured that the Republic were born with star Sirius in conjunction with natal Sun, and therefore, each anniversary of independence on July 4th at dawn, that star appeared on the horizon ahead of the rising sun.

Washington%204th%20July%20II.jpg


Franklin and Jefferson couldn't know the new planets Uranus (discovered in 1781 by Herschel), Neptune and Pluto. They surely should picked another time, if they would have known them. Uranus in Descendent close to Mars shows the straining and fiery relations USA has had with the rest of world. Neptune close to Midheaven and Lilith says the country loads with ideological world leadership, or can be a target for fundamentalists of diverse trends. Pluto opposite Mercurius in the axis 2th - 8th is wealth, but also hazard to financial crashes.
 
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AquarianEssence

Well-known member
You make some very good points, Estrellero. I believe Ptolemy, followed by Lily, gave all of North America to Gemini. So of course the US, which claims much of the territory, would have a certain Gemini flavor and themes, such as the twin towers episode of our history.
 

Estrellero

Active member
You make some very good points, Estrellero. I believe Ptolemy, followed by Lily, gave all of North America to Gemini. So of course the US, which claims much of the territory, would have a certain Gemini flavor and themes, such as the twin towers episode of our history.

According to Sibley chart Descendant, the place of declared enemies, would be in Geminis, in conjunction with Uranus, the planet of unexpected events. The day of the attack over Twin Towers the malefic Saturn transited on the midpoint between Uranus and Mars in 7th House, while Pluto opposed from Sagittarius just below Ascendant. Twin Towers at the site of declared enemies represent the target of the attack.

usa11S.JPG
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
I don't tend to think of the enemies of the US as Gemini, which is quite fickle and easily moved by outside influences. This is part of the reason the Sibley chart doesn't seem the most accurate to me. Also a birth chart should reflect the country's symbols, which this one doesn't. Take Iraq, for example. They use the eagle on their coat of arms, their house of values is ruled by Scorpio, with Moon (critical degee) and Pluto both there.

It's interesting that the name was given by England to Iraq, the name meaning 'firmly rooted land' or 'land of the Sun'. That quarter of the inhabited world is associated with the earth signs but Iraq as ancient Chaldea, in about the center of the inhabited world at that time, is at the edge of the fire quarter and is governed by the Sun, with the nature of Leo. Isis is an ancient name of Venus and was venerated by this part of the world. Venus is culminating in Iraq's chart. Iraq as ancient Persia is governed by Taurus, ruled by Venus/Isis. Iraq as Babylon, Assyria and Mesopotamia ('land between two rivers') is governed by Mercury, through Virgo. (Ptolemy Tetrabiblos) At the time of the 1st attack, Mercury was rising and ruled the Virgo 12th house of hidden enemies with Sun on the cusp. Mercury was tightly trine Saturn, also associated with that part of the world as Mithras Helios. Saturn was in Gemini in the 9th, perhaps the head of the mission. Venus was in mutual reception with and in Sun's sign, Leo, and she ruled the ascendant and 8th house.

The event Venus was in Leo, disposited by Sun, who was in Virgo, disposited by Mercury rising. So, we see the attackers were connected to a country governed by Venus, Sun and Mercury, just as Ptolemy would say, I'm sure. Countries may have modern birth charts due to political changes but the more ancient rulers work. By the way, Iraq's 762 chart has Libra rising, just as the twin towers attack.

Iraq's open enemy is Mars in Gemini in the 9th house. That's us for sure. Gemini=North America at least.
 

theV

Well-known member
People who have a strong connection with the United States usually these axis degree prominent in their chart.

The first axis is the Leo/Aquarius especially the degrees from 23° to 29° and usually from 6° to 13°.

The second axis as you mentioned is the Taurus/Scoprio axis specifically from 17° to 29° Scorpio/Taurus axis.

Gemini/Saggitarius axis first decan especially 8 and 12° and degree 21° to 27°

Also Virgo 9° degree and Pisces 9° and sometimes 0° Pisces/Virgo.

People with Pisces 9° or Capricorn 20° degree might have troublesome with the US,such as Ronald Reagan and Richard Ramirez.

I came up with this conclusion after studying USA main Harmonic charts of, the twelfth harmonic and the fourth harmonic. And after doing synastry with people who influenced the USA, I found out these people have these degree prominent in their charts.
 

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Kitchy

Banned
People who have a strong connection with the United States usually these axis degree prominent in their chart.

The first axis is the Leo/Aquarius especially the degrees from 23° to 29° and usually from 6° to 13°.

The second axis as you mentioned is the Taurus/Scoprio axis specifically from 17° to 29° Scorpio/Taurus axis.

Gemini/Saggitarius axis first decan especially 8 and 12° and degree 21° to 27°

Also Virgo 9° degree and Pisces 9° and sometimes 0° Pisces/Virgo.

People with Pisces 9° or Capricorn 20° degree might have troublesome with the US,such as Ronald Reagan and Richard Ramirez.

I came up with this conclusion after studying USA main Harmonic charts of, the twelfth harmonic and the fourth harmonic. And after doing synastry with people who influenced the USA, I found out these people have these degree prominent in their charts.

I am troublesome with / about U.S. but not hopeless. I think people can view your hypoth through these placements.

Good job V at getting to the bone of the beast - which is "the reaction by the public/person/planet - is shown by the connection to the country's chart - not so much by what the country does.
Mars in Cancer in 11th house.
Pluto NNode conj. 6 & 7' pisces in 2nd.
Jup/Sat conjunct in 6th 20 & 22 ' Cap.
 

theV

Well-known member
I am troublesome with / about U.S. but not hopeless. I think people can view your hypoth through these placements.

Good job V at getting to the bone of the beast - which is "the reaction by the public/person/planet - is shown by the connection to the country's chart - not so much by what the country does.
Mars in Cancer in 11th house.
Pluto NNode conj. 6 & 7' pisces in 2nd.
Jup/Sat conjunct in 6th 20 & 22 ' Cap.

Thank you, Kitchy. The harmonic placement do not only explain the connection between public personality and the country, but also explains some of the country "traits"-I don't know if it is the right word. The harmonic suns of US falls in Virgo and Taurus.

Virgo harmonic sun might explain obsession over health matter, analytic/critical tendencies of Americans, perfectionist attitude. It falls in the ninth house, multi-cultural nation, many ideologies, argumentative side of Americans, exploring believe system.

Then we have Taurus Sun in the sixth house, house health again and also SLAVERY.

I always had a fascination with the US. I picked the English language easily, and I always had unintentional urge to explore the history and the culture. My natal Sun is in 9° Virgo conjunct the Harmonic US Sun. Astrologer Alice Portman said that we are attracted to people whose harmonic charts touches our natal points.
 
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theV

Well-known member
Abraham Lincoln was one of the most influential figures in the American history, and the connection is shown in the comparison of Lincoln's astrology and the US.

Lincoln had the "US astrological degrees".

Abrahm's 3rd harmonic Sun/Asc conjunct in Saggitarius 10° conjunct = US Asc 8° ( SUN/ASC= US/Asc= 8).

And Abraham has The axis of Leo/Aquarius
I talked about prominent. He had Natal Sun/and Asc in 23 aquarius and He had harmonic Moon conjunct the combination. NT SUN/ASC= 23 AQUARIUS CONJUNCT 12HARMONIC MOON=24 AQUARIUS. ALL OF THIS COMBO IS INTERCEPTED with US NATAL MOON AND HARMONIC MOON OPPOSITE HARMONIC NODE.

His Natal vertex conjunct the Harmonic US SUN. And he had Harmonic Sun/Asc opposite Natal cancer sun US.
 

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Andries

Well-known member
USA horoscope, rectified: Ascendant 9 Scorpio.

Progressive aspects:

12-Dec-2017 021°,18'16 Leo C--2 60 Mars
17-Dec-2017 008°,26'19 Sagittarius Moon 30 Asc
22-Dec-2017 000°,55'50 Aquarius Desc * DABIH (SAT - VENUS )
29-Dec-2017 008°,50'14 Sagittarius Moon * RASTABAN (SAT - VENUS )

1-Jan-2018 008°,55'16 Sagittarius Moon 180 Ura
 

Frank

Well-known member
I continue to maintain that the USA has a mid-Libra ascendant. Look at what is going on, and my previous research.
 

Andries

Well-known member
The United States of America = number 99.

I rectified the USA horoscope of Marc H. Penfield and published it in a book.

USA ascendant: 8.26.19 Scorpio.



Radix van: USA Geb.uur : 14h,20m12s0
Plaats : PHILADELPHIA Tijdsoort: 05h,00m39s
Breedte : +39°,56'56,0 G.M.T. : 19h,20m51s
Lengte : -75°,09'00,0 E.T. : 19h,21m07s
Datum : 4-7-1776 S.T. : 09h,13m39s,511
Dag : Thursday Tabeldag : 15 / 9 / 1775
Delta-T = 15,5811 seconden JD = 2369916,30632617 T = -1,2348718322746068

Progressive aspects and some transits:


27-Nov-1941 005°,08'00 Sagittarius Sun 135 Chiron transit

27-Nov-1941 024°,14'57 Taurus Sat 60 Merc transit

27-Nov-1941 005°,41'17 Leo Plu 45 Pars transit

5-Dec-1941 017°,58'20 Taurus Asc 45 Ven
9-Dec-1941 023°,17'52 Cancer Jup 45 mutual Ura
10-Dec-1941 029°,42'57 Aquarius Moon 90 AR07
10-Dec-1941 027°,32'50 Taurus Ura 120 Plu transit

10-Dec-1941 016°,07'19 Gemini Jup 120 C-12 transit

11-Dec-1941 015°,56'57 Gemini Jup 60 MC transit
12-Dec-1941 029°,48'13 Aquarius Moon 135 Sat

2-May-1945 022°,25'13 Taurus Asc 120 Nep
5-May-1945 028°,12'57 Aquarius C-11 135 Sun
5-May-1945 +22°,48'38 Sat // Sun transit
6-May-1945 +02°,11'45 Moon // mutual C-12
9-May-1945 007°,20'29 Cancer Sat 150 C--2 transit

11-May-1945 001°,36'15 Aquarius MC * OCULUS (SAT - VENUS )
16-May-1945 +02°,20'25 Moon // mutual Nep
17-May-1945 018°,44'03 Gemini C--2 * CAPELLA (MARS - MERC )
24-May-1945 018°,45'09 Gemini C--2 90 C-11
29-May-1945 000°,55'50 Aquarius Ven * DABIH (SAT - VENUS )
29-May-1945 001°,39'06 Libra Mars 120 mutual MC

2-Jun-1945 018°,45'09 Aries Moon 150 C-11
3-Jun-1945 018°,46'39 Aries Moon 60 OND C--2
4-Jun-1945 018°,49'18 Aries Moon * BATEN KAITOS (SAT - )

7-Jul-1945 020°,08'00 Aries Moon 0 Chiron
19-Jul-1945 001°,42'56 Libra Mars * ZANIAH (MERC - VENUS )
20-Jul-1945 -21°,44'34 Ven # Ura
20-Jul-1945 016°,07'19 Cancer Sat 90 C-12 transit

20-Jul-1945 023°,26'19 Virgo Jup 45 Asc transit

22-Jul-1945 020°,41'17 Aries Moon 60 Pars
22-Jul-1945 001°,06'57 Aquarius Ven 90 mutual Sat
23-Jul-1945 +03°,31'10 Jup # Sat transit

24-Jul-1945 015°,56'57 Gemini Ura 60 MC transit

24-Jul-1945 +23°,33'45 Plu // Mars transit

25-Jul-1945 024°,14'57 Virgo Jup 60 Merc transit

26-Jul-1945 009°,39'16 Leo Plu 60 AR05 transit

26-Jul-1945 016°,56'16 Cancer Sat 135 AR11 transit

27-Jul-1945 016°,07'19 Gemini Ura 120 C-12 transit

29-Jul-1945 001°,08'16 Aquarius Ven 90 AR08
29-Jul-1945 +23°,31'46 Plu // Ven transit


6-Aug-1945 021°,18'16 Aries Moon 60 Mars
7-Aug-1945 +02°,20'24 Nep // mutual C-12
8-Aug-1945 +03°,31'10 Moon # Sat
9-Aug-1945 028°,41'45 Sagittarius Sun 150 mutual Drac
12-Aug-1945 027°,32'50 Virgo Jup 120 Plu transit

15-Aug-1945 005°,54'53 Aries C-12 90 Jup
16-Aug-1945 +21°,44'34 Sat // Ura transit

19-Aug-1945 +22°,48'38 Ura // Sun transit
25-Aug-1945 022°,01'45 Aries Moon 120 mutual Merc

2-Sep-1945 022°,20'29 Aries Moon 135 C—2
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I continue to maintain that the USA has a mid-Libra ascendant. Look at what is going on, and my previous research.

You may be right, the sun in Cancer Midheaven on July 4, 1776 when the USA became independent (the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia), the noon time ascendant is in Libra, but not so sure if it's in the middle (10-19').
 

Andries

Well-known member
North Korea Draconis 8 Scorpio is square USA Draconis 8 Leo.

North Korea Pars Frt. 11 Cancer is conjunct USA C-9 11 Cancer.

North Korea Pluto 16 Leo is conjunct USA MC 16 Leo.

North Korea Jupiter 21 Sagittarius is opposite USA Pars Frt. 21 Gemini in Eight House.

North Korea Sun 17 Virgo is conjunct Kim Jong Un Ascendant 17 Virgo and 30 degrees USA C-12 17 Libra.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Question:

When does the US become independent?

A. When the first shots were fired...19 April 1775

B. Upon signing of the Declaration of Independence...c.f.4 July 1776

C. At the inauguration of Washington...30 April 1789

Please choose A, B, or C and explain your reasoning. Thanks.
 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Question:

When does the US become independent?

A. When the first shots were fired...19 April 1775

B. Upon signing of the Declaration of Independence...c.f.4 July 1776

C. At the inauguration of Washington...30 April 1789

Please choose A, B, or C and explain your reasoning. Thanks.

In constitutional affairs, an official state becomes and/or is recognized as a country if there is black on white paper or in other words the formulation of an official file [Declaration of Independence] for the approval of the formation of a country. So, in my opinion the answer is B
 

greybeard

Well-known member
In constitutional affairs, an official state becomes and/or is recognized as a country if there is black on white paper or in other words the formulation of an official file [Declaration of Independence] for the approval of the formation of a country. So, in my opinion the answer is B


Thank you.
 
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