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  #1  
Unread 06-14-2009, 05:34 AM
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Unhappy Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hi everyone,
I haven’t been on in a while so I hope this will not discourage anyone from answering. I am trying to wrap my brain around a break up I went through a week ago with someone who turned out to be a narcissistic, verbally abusive bully. I was aware that he was unusually short with me sometimes, but I really found out what he was all about when we went on vacation together. Unfortunately, I was stuck with him in the West Indies and had to try and keep the peace as any confrontation or “back talk” to him escalated everything to an whole new level.
What I am trying gain here is a little feedback on some aspects. On the first I thought we had some amazing connections, to the point that I was really excited in thinking this was my soul mate. I did realize there were a few challenging aspect, but I know that is necessary to have to keep the relationship interesting. Unfortunately, the few challenging aspects we had seemed to take over and our relationship and it went down hill pretty quickly while on vacation. My question is this, was I mistaken in thinking there was an amazing connection, and has anyone experience any of these challenging aspects in such a negative way in their relationships?

Me Him
Sun 18:48 Cap Sun 13:26 Cap
Moon 16:43 Cancer Moon 11:17 Pisces
Mercury 6:26 Aqu Mercury 17:28 Cap
Venus 2:42 Sag Venus 3:21 Sag
Mars 23:23 Leo Mars 26:21 Aqu
Jupiter 10:38 Pisc Jupiter 5:33 Virgo
Saturn 10:55 Aqu Saturn 6:16 Aries
Uranus 4:54 Virgo Uranus 29:13 Virgo
Neptune 15:16 Scor Neptune 25:45 Scorpio
Pluto 11:59 Virgo Pluto 22:50 Virgo
ASC 4:25 Aries ASC 15:36 Pisces
NN 29 Cancer NN 26 Virgo
Chiron 7:29 Pisces Chiron 25:39 Pisces
Vertex 1:52 Libra Vertex 23:46 Virgo
Lilith 18:43 Libra Lilith 11:33 Taurus
Eros 29: 19 Scorpio

First the good aspects:

Grand Trine between his Moon/ASC with My Moon and Neptune

Grand Trine Between his Venus and my ASC and NN

Kite formation with his Sun/Mercury conjunction and My Moon, Jupiter, Neptune Grand Trine(his Moon/ASC would also be part of this)

Sun conjunct Sun
Sun conjunct Mecury
Sun sextile Moon
Sun Sextile Neptune
Sun trine Pluto
Sun sextile ASC
Moon trine Moon
Moon conjunct Jupiter
Moon sextile Pluto
Moon trine ASC
Moon conjunct Chiron
Mercury sextile Venus
Mercury sextile Jupiter
Mercury sextile Neptune
Venus conjunct Venus
Venus trine Saturn
Venus sextile Uranus
Venus conjunct Eros
Jupiter conjunct Asc
Saturn sextile Saturn
*Composite chart is also excellent and also includes a Sun Moon Trine amongst almost all positive aspects

Now for the Challenging Aspects


His Sun Mercury Oppose my Moon – probably contributed to small difference on viewpoints, personal habits, etc. Probably not an overly prominent aspect

His Saturn conjunct my ASC – I believe this aspect really challenged my self esteem. I always felt that he was very critical of me and was always correcting me or becoming short with me over something I said.

His Moon opposite my Uranus/Pluto conjunction – Normally this would suggest to me lack of stability in terms of emotions coming from the Uranus individual. Kind of like sometimes you are in and sometimes you are out or never knowing exactly where you stand. Also, jealousy and power struggles. Interestingly, I seemed to play out the Moon side of this aspect.


My Mars opposed and Squared His Mars Neptune Square – I believe this aspect was one of the biggest couple breakers as it added a very volatile dynamic to our relationship. There was intense attraction, yet fights could start at a drop of a hat and escalate to yelling very, very quickly. I also never felt like I could really trust him.


His Venus squared my Uranus – Of course we all know this to be electric attraction and lack of stability, but I thought my Venus sextiling his Uranus would off set this. It also means sudden intense start to the relationship followed by an abrupt ending.


His Uranus conjunct my DESC- Today was the first time i noticed this aspect. I am assuming volatility and instability in our relationship. Me feeling off center about my self as Uranus would challenge who I am
as an individual.

Any thoughts how we could have so many great connections(at least 20), yet these few challenging ones seemed to rip us a part? My best guess that since Uranus was involved with half the aspects that lent itself to instability which would mean the relationship would have a hard time surviving; that coupled with the Mars energy of combat, in addition to the restrictive influence of Saturn could make for a really difficult time of things. Still, I would think with so many great connections it would off set that. Why did this happen?? I am really disappointed.I would also like to know for a learning standpoint as I do not want to make the same mistake again.

One other thing that could be important, my boyfriend had terrible childhood(his mom was sluttish according to him and was always trying to rope guys in to marry her, ditched him at age 15 to go live with his alcoholic father who he later found out wasn’t his father, she used to steal unclaimed luggage from the airport…it goes on and on). So…he obviously didn’t have good role modeling from his mother and does not have a lot of respect for women. I suppose this could very likely have a lot to do with how things played out for us.


Please, any thoughts anyone?…I feel a little discourage in that our charts seemed so compatible overall…
Vista

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Unread 06-14-2009, 01:34 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by Vista View Post
Hi everyone,
My question is this, was I mistaken in thinking there was an amazing connection, and has anyone experience any of these challenging aspects in such a negative way in their relationships?



His Sun Mercury Oppose my Moon – probably contributed to small difference on viewpoints, personal habits, etc. Probably not an overly prominent aspect

His Saturn conjunct my ASC – I believe this aspect really challenged my self esteem. I always felt that he was very critical of me and was always correcting me or becoming short with me over something I said.

This is quite problematic
His Moon opposite my Uranus/Pluto conjunction – Normally this would suggest to me lack of stability in terms of emotions coming from the Uranus individual. Kind of like sometimes you are in and sometimes you are out or never knowing exactly where you stand. Also, jealousy and power struggles. Interestingly, I seemed to play out the Moon side of this aspect.
This is very problematic

My Mars opposed and Squared His Mars Neptune Square – I believe this aspect was one of the biggest couple breakers as it added a very volatile dynamic to our relationship. There was intense attraction, yet fights could start at a drop of a hat and escalate to yelling very, very quickly. I also never felt like I could really trust him.


His Venus squared my Uranus – Of course we all know this to be electric attraction and lack of stability, but I thought my Venus sextiling his Uranus would off set this. It also means sudden intense start to the relationship followed by an abrupt ending.
This is the classic divorce aspect

His Uranus conjunct my DESC- Today was the first time i noticed this aspect. I am assuming volatility and instability in our relationship. Me feeling off center about my self as Uranus would challenge who I am
as an individual.
Someone wants freedom and independance here classic divorce aspect


Please, any thoughts anyone?…I feel a little discourage in that our charts seemed so compatible overall…
Vista
You could have the best synastry in the world, but unless you have good communications, are honest with each other about your needs, wishes and desires and 'both' of you want the same things...........then nothing will happen. It cannot make anyone change, or love you more. Some challenging squares, oppositions in synastry can be healthy, and may require one or both of you to grow in some way. Astrological natal charts cannot explain environmental factors, financial handicaps/ restraints and what position you hold in society, neither can it tell you if you are of ‘Royalty’ or beggar.

I am of the belief that people come in and out of our lives for a reason, either we have to teach them something or we have to learn something from them. There is Always an exchange, good or bad.

Good luck with your journey
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Unread 06-14-2009, 02:21 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hi Astrologer 50,
Thank you for your reply. I can appreciate what you are saying and we did seem to want the same things and have the same desires. Somewhere along the way something went wrong. There was a series of events that seemed to cause damage between us. I am really looking for some feedback on the challenging aspects of anyone's experience or opinions as to what could have caused the problems between us. It's not often that I meet someone and have so many amazing connections, yet have it go south is very disillusioning.
Vista
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Unread 06-14-2009, 04:16 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Any thoughts how we could have so many great connections(at least 20), yet these few challenging ones seemed to rip us a part? My best guess that since Uranus was involved with half the aspects that lent itself to instability which would mean the relationship would have a hard time surviving; that coupled with the Mars energy of combat, in addition to the restrictive influence of Saturn could make for a really difficult time of things. Still, I would think with so many great connections it would off set that. Why did this happen?? I am really disappointed.I would also like to know for a learning standpoint as I do not want to make the same mistake again.

One other thing that could be important, my boyfriend had terrible childhood(his mom was sluttish according to him and was always trying to rope guys in to marry her, ditched him at age 15 to go live with his alcoholic father who he later found out wasn’t his father, she used to steal unclaimed luggage from the airport…it goes on and on). So…he obviously didn’t have good role modeling from his mother and does not have a lot of respect for women. I suppose this could very likely have a lot to do with how things played out for us.


Please, any thoughts anyone?…I feel a little discourage in that our charts seemed so compatible overall…
Vista============================================= ==============================

Transits would have to take on a big role in this, and would probably trigger your most difficult synastry. That would tip the weight in the favor of the difficult aspects.

The triple conjunction of Jupiter/Chiron/Neptune was hovering upon your mars/mars opposition.It was conjunct his Mars and squaring his Neptune. Chiron was bringing up old painful wounds, Neptune was adding alcohol or confusion to the mix and Jupiter was escalating the circumstances, perhaps because you were out of the country.

Adding to that is the flashbacks that probably come to him when he is in the airport. You described his crazy childhood, which included his slutty mom stealing luggage from the airport. He was probably extra stressed by being in the environment which would bring up his old painful memories. He may have projected a lot of his repressed anger onto you.

Also, Pluto in early Cap is doing a number on your Sat/Asc conjunction by squaring it, and undermining your stable connection. Suddenly he sees you as holding him back, and of being manipulative, because of his deeply painful unresolved issues.

Are you sure it is over? Could it have been the perfect storm of circumstances in which his stuff was triggered and he released it as best he could?
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Unread 06-14-2009, 04:50 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Any thoughts how we could have so many great connections(at least 20), yet these few challenging ones seemed to rip us a part? My best guess that since Uranus was involved with half the aspects that lent itself to instability which would mean the relationship would have a hard time surviving; that coupled with the Mars energy of combat, in addition to the restrictive influence of Saturn could make for a really difficult time of things. Still, I would think with so many great connections it would off set that. Why did this happen?? I am really disappointed.I would also like to know for a learning standpoint as I do not want to make the same mistake again.

One other thing that could be important, my boyfriend had terrible childhood(his mom was sluttish according to him and was always trying to rope guys in to marry her, ditched him at age 15 to go live with his alcoholic father who he later found out wasn’t his father, she used to steal unclaimed luggage from the airport…it goes on and on). So…he obviously didn’t have good role modeling from his mother and does not have a lot of respect for women. I suppose this could very likely have a lot to do with how things played out for us.


Please, any thoughts anyone?…I feel a little discourage in that our charts seemed so compatible overall…
Vista============================================= ==============================

Transits would have to take on a big role in this, and would probably trigger your most difficult synastry. That would tip the weight in the favor of the difficult aspects.

The triple conjunction of Jupiter/Chiron/Neptune was hovering upon your mars/mars opposition.It was conjunct his Mars and squaring his Neptune. Chiron was bringing up old painful wounds, Neptune was adding alcohol or confusion to the mix and Jupiter was escalating the circumstances, perhaps because you were out of the country.

Adding to that is the flashbacks that probably come to him when he is in the airport. You described his crazy childhood, which included his slutty mom stealing luggage from the airport. He was probably extra stressed by being in the environment which would bring up his old painful memories. He may have projected a lot of his repressed anger onto you.

Also, Pluto in early Cap is doing a number on your Sat/Asc conjunction by squaring it, and undermining your stable connection. Suddenly he sees you as holding him back, and of being manipulative, because of his deeply painful unresolved issues.

Are you sure it is over? Could it have been the perfect storm of circumstances in which his stuff was triggered and he released it as best he could?
Dear Katydid,
Thank kindly for your in depth reply. You certainly brought up some very good points about the transits. They are transits that i didn't think would be problematic as they did not rule either of our 7th houses. I see now how wrong I was. Very astute of you and an excellent explanation of things. Alchohol could have definitely played a part in the problem. We also had a couple of personal things that happened a couple of days before the trip, as well as the day of. It really derailed things and caused a huge fight the day we were leaving. I think Tr Neptune was at it's worse here. I think the Neptune, Jupiter, Chiron conjunction was particurlarly potent in his chart as he has his ASC and Moon in Pisces, as well as a natal Mars Neptune squares. Wow, never thought of the impact that could have, especially with my own N Mars thrown into the mix. We resolved things, but I think it left some damage and was instrumental in the derailment of our connection as we were on vacation. What's more, he does have Tr Saturn conjunct the Desc opposing his ACS. I am pretty certain that could have something to do with me as I am Capricorn Sun and so is he. His 7th is ruled by Mercury and mine is ruled by Venus. I do notice that Tr Saturn does trine his Mercury very soon, in addition to Tr Saturn moving into his 7th. That could represent us getting back together I suppose or perhaps him moving on to another serious relationship. His Progressed Sun also conjuncts Progressed Mercury(his 7th H ruler) giving more testimonial of something serious coming his way. As for my chart, Tr Saturn also Trines and sextiles my Sun/Moon opposition and in the not too distant future I will have Tr Saturn entering my 7th House as well. Also, Progressed Moon is Sextiling Progressed Venus, with the Moon ruling my 5th and Venus ruling my 7th as I mentioned before.
It seems like both of our charts indicate possible serious relationships coming our way. I once thought it was with each other, but now I am not so certain. I am very, very angry with him and the way that he treated me while we were on vacation. I think he is verbally abusive and whether he can control that i do not know. I will never tolerate someone who undermines my self worth and treats me like a verbal punching bag and his Natal Saturn conjunct my ASC says this is how could continue to treat me. Anyway, he has not communicated with me in over a week so I am living my life as if the relationship is over.

Again thank you so much for taking time to look at our charts for me. It really helps when another pairs of eyes looks at things as it's very easy to miss important planatary aspects. I would welcome anything more you have to say or from anyone else for that matter expecially with regards to the transits and challenging aspects in our charts.
Vista
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Unread 06-15-2009, 08:05 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Is there no one else willing to give their opinion on this.
I am really trying to make sense of all of this.

Thanks for any help.
Vista
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Unread 06-16-2009, 11:10 PM
elumen elumen is offline
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hi Vista,

I do think you had a lot of connections both positive and challenging in nature. In my experience (and it has personal overtones ;-) Having someone put their Saturn on your Asc is both important, karmic and ... heavy. It indicates a karmic connection, that something binds you together, but the Asc. person often feels rejected unappreciated, restricted, ... or just simply the heaviness of Saturn. In stead of feeling of comfort you'd want in a close relationshio, there is this heaviness. In all of my relationship my partners placed their Saturn on my angles. I always felt some sort of limitation and needing to let go and sacrifice something. But with asc. the Saturn may just reject the Asc.
I also feel that Uranus aspects contribute to this sudden breakup, although my husband of 10 years places his Uranus in my 7th house and we are still together :-). So I think you could have Uranus and still chose to stay together if Saturn aspects help it. A lot depends on the choice people make, but Mars square Mars Neptune is definitely a difficult one. It's like being at odds with each other, you want to go and he wants to stay, your wills are cross purposed so to speak. Sun Moon opposition is OK, it is the polarity that can be helpful. It is good to have connections between Sun and Moon, I do not think this must be a trine.
Why don't you post your biwheel and composite chart as well? I'd also look at the angels to see what the relationship is like. your ascendants are very different, you being an Aries, strong, dominant energy, and Pisces soft and gullible, merging. I'd take into the account your nature (Mars in Leo, and his Jupiter in Virgo) very different. You have a large amount of conj. between the charts, that must have felt like a strong similarity, but the oppositions are there as well...

Last edited by elumen; 06-16-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 03:34 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Ok I have added two charts:

1. Bi Wheel with my boyfriends natal chart inner wheel and mine outer

2. Bi Wheel with my chart inner and his chart outer. His Mars, Moon, and ASC are in my 12th house which could explain a lot.

3. And then there is a thumbnail of our composite chart with transits. I just noticed that Tr Uranus was conjunct our composite ASC opposing our Desc from the 12th H. Could explain part of the reason for the breakup. Also Tr Saturn conjunct composite Pluto, and Tr Jupiter/Neptune/Chiron were also within range of a conjunction to composite Saturn. Alot of abrupt and heavy stuff going on with much of it going on in the 12th house. Seems like unfinished business and old hurts would be prominent with this...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg composite.jpg (48.0 KB, 20 views)
Attached Files
File Type: doc Male inner Femal outer Bi Wheel.doc (77.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: doc Female inner Male out Bi Wheel.doc (78.5 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Vista; 06-17-2009 at 04:34 AM.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 04:50 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by elumen View Post
Hi Vista,

I do think you had a lot of connections both positive and challenging in nature. In my experience (and it has personal overtones ;-) Having someone put their Saturn on your Asc is both important, karmic and ... heavy. It indicates a karmic connection, that something binds you together, but the Asc. person often feels rejected unappreciated, restricted, ... or just simply the heaviness of Saturn. In stead of feeling of comfort you'd want in a close relationshio, there is this heaviness. In all of my relationship my partners placed their Saturn on my angles. I always felt some sort of limitation and needing to let go and sacrifice something. But with asc. the Saturn may just reject the Asc.
I also feel that Uranus aspects contribute to this sudden breakup, although my husband of 10 years places his Uranus in my 7th house and we are still together :-). So I think you could have Uranus and still chose to stay together if Saturn aspects help it. A lot depends on the choice people make, but Mars square Mars Neptune is definitely a difficult one. It's like being at odds with each other, you want to go and he wants to stay, your wills are cross purposed so to speak. Sun Moon opposition is OK, it is the polarity that can be helpful. It is good to have connections between Sun and Moon, I do not think this must be a trine.
Why don't you post your biwheel and composite chart as well? I'd also look at the angels to see what the relationship is like. your ascendants are very different, you being an Aries, strong, dominant energy, and Pisces soft and gullible, merging. I'd take into the account your nature (Mars in Leo, and his Jupiter in Virgo) very different. You have a large amount of conj. between the charts, that must have felt like a strong similarity, but the oppositions are there as well...
Hi Elumen,
Thank you so much for the reply!! You certainly hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of Saturn on the Ascendant! Everything that you mentioned is exactly how I felt. He was extremely heaving and censoring, and basically disapproving of me. I also felt very rejected, unappreciated, and restricted. It's almost like my personality withered under his in that I could never be my fun loving, talkative self. I always felt like I might say something wrong that he would disapprove of. It was certainly an eye opener. He did actually end things with me so I did feel rejected, although I was pretty much done anyway after our icky vacation together where he acted out all the above mentioned adjectives on a daily basis.
I do think that we did have a lot of Natal Uranus stuff going on, but the Saturn sextile Saturn, Saturn trine Venus, and Saturn conjunct ASC kept us together longer than we should have been. I can honestly say that I wouldn't likely date someone again who had their Saturn on my ASC. I am sure the Mars opposite his Mars square Neptune didn't help either. I can say though that he was anything but soft, guliible and merging. In fact, that describes how I was in the relationship. He was the "bigger the life" personality always having to be center stage and the life of the party. Certainly not what I would expect from Piscies rising with Moon in Piscies Sun/Mercury Capricorn. Although I did read somewhere that Piscies ASC talk a lot which would describe him extremely well.
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Unread 06-19-2009, 05:18 AM
elumen elumen is offline
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hi Vista,

Sorry it took me some time to respond. So, I did not see much in your comp. chart, and the synastry feels competitive to me. Like he placed his Sun on top of yours in your 10th, so that would feel like competition for authority. In general, I always thought that having two natal Suns conj. is not so helpful, the similarity is too great, there is no balancing out. You have a lot of conj. so while it is binding, it maybe too much of a good thing. Also, you have Mars oppose his Mars, and Mars is the ruler of your chart, so again feels like combativeness, disagreement over how to do things, and him wanting to boss you around (his Mars in Leo, his Sun on top of yours on top of your chart.) There are beautiful links between his Asc/Moon conj and your Jupiter, that would feels good to him and you would probably have this kind and benevolent feeling towards him, but I suppose it was not enough. His Uranus is 5* away form your desc, so it may or may not be of much importance, as it sits in your 6th house. But in my sense the Saturn is the decisive factor, as it is very close to you asc. Again, you could have chosen to stay together, but it is just heavy, and uncomfortable and possibly the transits amplified the combativness and desire for independence.
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Unread 06-21-2009, 02:12 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by elumen View Post
Hi Vista,

Sorry it took me some time to respond. So, I did not see much in your comp. chart, and the synastry feels competitive to me. Like he placed his Sun on top of yours in your 10th, so that would feel like competition for authority. In general, I always thought that having two natal Suns conj. is not so helpful, the similarity is too great, there is no balancing out. You have a lot of conj. so while it is binding, it maybe too much of a good thing. Also, you have Mars oppose his Mars, and Mars is the ruler of your chart, so again feels like combativeness, disagreement over how to do things, and him wanting to boss you around (his Mars in Leo, his Sun on top of yours on top of your chart.) There are beautiful links between his Asc/Moon conj and your Jupiter, that would feels good to him and you would probably have this kind and benevolent feeling towards him, but I suppose it was not enough. His Uranus is 5* away form your desc, so it may or may not be of much importance, as it sits in your 6th house. But in my sense the Saturn is the decisive factor, as it is very close to you asc. Again, you could have chosen to stay together, but it is just heavy, and uncomfortable and possibly the transits amplified the combativness and desire for independence.
Thank you again for your reply. I think you are correct about the Mars to Mars Opposition, along with the Saturn conjunct my ASC. The warm, fuzzy feelings went away very quickly to be replaced by my feeling criticized and never good enough for him. I really felt there was just so many endless things that bugged him about me. Aaahhhh! I do think his Natal Uranus opposite my ASC cotributed to the instability I always felt about the relationship. I also noticed in our composite chart that Uranus was sitting on our composite ASC opposing our Desc when we broke up. It's sorted ended up a war at this point, because he cannot go without verbally attacking for some imagined infraction that I did. I finally told him off and that i didn't care what he thought of me anymore and to never contact me again. I feel better now as I have tried way to long to keep the peace only to be verbally abused over and over again.

Vista
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Unread 06-21-2009, 02:59 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Vista,
I just want to remind you that it was not YOU that he was angry at. He has never gotten over his rage and shame concerning his childhood. Don't take on this stuff as yours. Let it go so you do not take this baggage with you in your next relationship.
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Unread 06-21-2009, 01:17 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

It is simple! Your ASC Aries is too rough and his ASC Pisces too sissy. Your Mars Leo is overly demanding of adoration, being arrogant, jealous, noble and even divine whereas his Mars Aquarius is more simple, distanced and even humanitarian. Your Jupiter Pisces is too much like Alice In Wonderland compared to his Jupiter Virgo which is a more moralistic and perfect when it comes to philosophies of life. Oh and 2 Sun Capricorns can be too boring together like any same sign combinations.
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Unread 06-21-2009, 04:31 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Vista,
I just want to remind you that it was not YOU that he was angry at. He has never gotten over his rage and shame concerning his childhood. Don't take on this stuff as yours. Let it go so you do not take this baggage with you in your next relationship.
Thanks Katydid, I will keep trying to remember this! LOL! He just picked another fight with me again, calling me a liar because I told him that I needed the money he owed me from a vacation we took together and yet I went on "another" vacation as he put it, in other words indicating that I really didn't need the money right now. He had a job lead for me and refused to give it to me because he said he "wouldn't help a liar."
I am unemployed right now and he makes six figures. I did go out of the country with girlfriend for a few days, which didn't cost me a cent as it was to her vacation home and she drove and bought all the groceries. It was a nice gesture from her after my horrible vacation with the ex-boyfriend. Anyway, him calling me a liar pretty much sent me over the edge after so many countless times he has been verbally abusive to me and I have tried to keep the peace. I let him have it and told him what I thought of him and that I never wanted to hear from him again.
Thank you again for the kind words.
Vista
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Unread 06-21-2009, 04:43 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by MasterZeromus View Post
It is simple! Your ASC Aries is too rough and his ASC Pisces too sissy. Your Mars Leo is overly demanding of adoration, being arrogant, jealous, noble and even divine whereas his Mars Aquarius is more simple, distanced and even humanitarian. Your Jupiter Pisces is too much like Alice In Wonderland compared to his Jupiter Virgo which is a more moralistic and perfect when it comes to philosophies of life. Oh and 2 Sun Capricorns can be too boring together like any same sign combinations.
Hi MZ,
Thank you for taking time to respond. I can definitely see where you would come up with a lot of what your saying, but much of it never manifested itself in that way. He is far from being a sissy, and in fact is very gregarious, outgoing, charming, and combative. He is also pretty narcissistic. As for my Aries ASC, yes you can say the Aries ASC are rather rough or combative, but I was never that way in this relationship. He was the one that was combative, and in fact seemed to illustrate many of the Mars in Leo characteristics. It's almost as if the roles were reversed or ASC/Mars reversed. He did have a tendency to think of himself as pretty perfect, you know more intelligent, funnier, better businessman than everyone else? Just really full of himself, although much of it could be overcompensation for his difficult childhood and hiding someone who is pretty vulnerable underneath. I can see how two Capricorns could be boring together, but he was as far from boring as he could be and with my Aries ASC and Mecury in Aquarious and Venus in Sagitarious, I would say things were never boring with us.

Vista
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Unread 06-22-2009, 11:22 AM
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Talking Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hi again Vista!

His Saturn in Aries was the definetly killer in your relationship. Saturn in conjuction or square with any ASC, Sun and Moon can definetly hold you back. Mostly negative but I see your point about excitment in your relationship. Kind of hard for you to give in, huh? But then again kind of hard to reject all that tension at the same time.
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Unread 06-22-2009, 12:46 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Hello Vista, there is not much I can add to Katydid's excellent descriptions. Personally I always take the chart of "the other" apart. No matter how wonderful it all seems to be when meeting someone, you will never know the other person unless you look at his/her chart and figuring out their psyche. 4th house is always the best start! Early upbringing, how parents treated them, what influenced them mostly. You can see easily if they have "issues" or gone through traumatic experiences which more often than not will be reflected onto the partner. So I usually take both charts and tell the people: you are likely to be like this and that and the same for the other one. By doing this, they already will know "OOPS, that will never go well between us" unless of course he or she adapts willingly to change her or his opinions/feelings etc.
This usually happens during counseling when things have gone wrong already. It would be much better to go to a good astrologer before getting married I always say
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Unread 06-22-2009, 03:49 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Originally Posted by MasterZeromus View Post
Hi again Vista!

His Saturn in Aries was the definetly killer in your relationship. Saturn in conjuction or square with any ASC, Sun and Moon can definetly hold you back. Mostly negative but I see your point about excitment in your relationship. Kind of hard for you to give in, huh? But then again kind of hard to reject all that tension at the same time.
Hi Again MZ!
I agree, Saturn conjunct my ASC was the killer. Never dated anyone with this aspect to my natal chart before. Wow, what an eye opener! Never again. I have had a Saturn square/opposite/conjunction of my Moon or Sun though or vice versa. This was a little easier to handle for some reason, although eventually we became pretty ambivalent to each other and lost interest, but I never anyone putting me down and being so critical to me as this entire thing played out.

Thanks again for your insight and response!!
Vista
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Unread 06-22-2009, 03:58 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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Hello Vista, there is not much I can add to Katydid's excellent descriptions. Personally I always take the chart of "the other" apart. No matter how wonderful it all seems to be when meeting someone, you will never know the other person unless you look at his/her chart and figuring out their psyche. 4th house is always the best start! Early upbringing, how parents treated them, what influenced them mostly. You can see easily if they have "issues" or gone through traumatic experiences which more often than not will be reflected onto the partner. So I usually take both charts and tell the people: you are likely to be like this and that and the same for the other one. By doing this, they already will know "OOPS, that will never go well between us" unless of course he or she adapts willingly to change her or his opinions/feelings etc.
This usually happens during counseling when things have gone wrong already. It would be much better to go to a good astrologer before getting married I always say
Hi Starlink!!
You are correct on that one. He never went through counseling and didn't think he needed it. I should have run for the hills when I found out the extent of his upbringing, at least when I found out he has never addressed the issues of his past. What's more, I had another big warning when in a two month period of time he fought with six different women including me. I mean what guy gets in verbal fights with women? These women were employees of his, someone who he just met on a ski trip, another was his roommates girlfriend, and the wife of an acquaintance of his out at the desert where he does motocross. These are only the ones I know of. Do you get the picture? He is combative, yet he tries to blame the other person...always. Anyway, the next relationship I have I will look at the challenging aspects more closely. I just thought that with so many good aspects between us, including ones in our composite chart, the challenging ones would be easier to handle. Also, I have always read that you want to have some challenging aspects between your natal charts to add excitement.

Thank you again for your feedback. It all really helps me process everything as disappointing as it all is...
Vista
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Unread 06-23-2009, 01:13 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

your composite chart has a venus opposed to jupiter,so there was a strong affection and a feeling that this was a long term relationship.this oppositon also implies thatfinacial matters were very good.with the venus/sun midpoint square to the ascendant,the affection between you radiated love.with the mars/venus midpont square to the jupiter/moon midpoint,here again are symbols that this felt as if a committment was in the furture as this is a very loving and nurturing configuration.
but saturn is square to jupiter and vensu ,so here is a indication that there would be tough emotional problems and a hesistancy to commit in a relationship.
also a problem was the mars opposed to neptune.this can show that he had ulterior motives and wasn't being forthright with you.as the mercury/uranus and mercury/pluto midpoints are conjunct neptune and opposed to mars,there was a potential for forceful or violent mental confrontations.it seems he kept this hostility under wraps so it wasn't clear what would set him off.
this potential for physical agression is also shown by the sun square the mars/saturn midpoint.with pluto/neptune also square the sun,there is a possibility of alchol or other substances playing a part in his sudden changes .
with the mercury/neptune midpoint conjunct the sun/venus midpoint,it seems he may have been telling you what you wanted to hear,as this configuraton shows a deceptive nature.this duplicity is also foreshadowed by the neptune/saturn midpoint conjunct the sun.this is an aspect of a complicated relationship that often involves misrepresentation.as well as bring alcohol or other substances under scrutiny.
with the jupiter/uranus midpoint opposed to mercury, it seems that there was always an uncertainty about formalizing the relationship.
the 12 house position of saturn and chiron often indicate that the childhood was difficult and a need to be controlling and dominate in relationships can arise as a reaction to the insecurities of the childhood experiences.
saturn square to jupiter could ultimatey indicate that there were going to be financial problems or that his insecurity was focusing on financial condition more that love.
rahu

Last edited by rahu; 06-23-2009 at 01:28 AM. Reason: adding information
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Unread 06-23-2009, 05:41 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

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your composite chart has a venus opposed to jupiter,so there was a strong affection and a feeling that this was a long term relationship.this oppositon also implies thatfinacial matters were very good.with the venus/sun midpoint square to the ascendant,the affection between you radiated love.with the mars/venus midpont square to the jupiter/moon midpoint,here again are symbols that this felt as if a committment was in the furture as this is a very loving and nurturing configuration.
but saturn is square to jupiter and vensu ,so here is a indication that there would be tough emotional problems and a hesistancy to commit in a relationship.
also a problem was the mars opposed to neptune.this can show that he had ulterior motives and wasn't being forthright with you.as the mercury/uranus and mercury/pluto midpoints are conjunct neptune and opposed to mars,there was a potential for forceful or violent mental confrontations.it seems he kept this hostility under wraps so it wasn't clear what would set him off.
this potential for physical agression is also shown by the sun square the mars/saturn midpoint.with pluto/neptune also square the sun,there is a possibility of alchol or other substances playing a part in his sudden changes .
with the mercury/neptune midpoint conjunct the sun/venus midpoint,it seems he may have been telling you what you wanted to hear,as this configuraton shows a deceptive nature.this duplicity is also foreshadowed by the neptune/saturn midpoint conjunct the sun.this is an aspect of a complicated relationship that often involves misrepresentation.as well as bring alcohol or other substances under scrutiny.
with the jupiter/uranus midpoint opposed to mercury, it seems that there was always an uncertainty about formalizing the relationship.
the 12 house position of saturn and chiron often indicate that the childhood was difficult and a need to be controlling and dominate in relationships can arise as a reaction to the insecurities of the childhood experiences.
saturn square to jupiter could ultimatey indicate that there were going to be financial problems or that his insecurity was focusing on financial condition more that love.
rahu
Oh my Gosh Rahu, EVERYTHING you have said is soooo amazingly accurate. I am just astounded!!! Thank you for this and for all the time and effort you put into the chart reading. Never had i thought to put so much thought into a composite chart, but clearly I was mistaken. There is so much detail in your description of what went on in our relationship...everything from his violent temper outbursts, to my not knowing what would set him off, to the alchohol being involved, to the uncertainty of solidifying the relationship, to his having a bad childhood and wanting to control everything. Just amazing! The other thing I will certainly look at are the Mid Points. I haven't done much with them in the past other than Sun/Moon, but I will look more closely from this point on.
Again, I can't thank you enough as not only did it clarify things greatly(as did the readings from the astrologers who kindly gave me their interpretation), it also taught be a great deal about synastry in composite chart reading and how telling inner "workings" of the relationship will be.
Vista
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Unread 06-25-2009, 05:17 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Rahu, good job! What system are you using in interpreting the charts here -- is that some type of modern astrology? When you speak of midpoints do you mean the composite chart planets or the actual midpoints between the planets in the composite?

Vista, I'm glad it helps you process out your loss. I love astrology for that -- for finding more meaning and understanding. BTW, I do not think that Saturn on Asc is a definite indication of a difficulty relationship. In my case, for e.g. I loved the man who placed his Saturn on my Asc dearly, and there was a lot of tenderness and warmth from my side, but he was cold and unappreciateve of me. ALthough, I believe it could have worked out differently. It was just his choice.
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Unread 06-25-2009, 06:07 AM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Rahu, my compliments! This is a true lesson in Midpoints. Strangely enough just a few days ago I was heavily involved in midpoints (my own chart) and decided to make a list of them in "order of appearance" counterclock wise, so that I could keep a better eye on them when they would be transited. I am very pleased to see how you did this interpretation almost entirely based on midpoint theory.
There is not much about this issue in the forum and maybe there should be an article about it in our Education Board as this is, to me, a very important point of astrological view

Thanks again.
Starlink
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Unread 06-25-2009, 05:14 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Thank you all for your appreciation of my analysis.

elumen, i was using composite midpoints.Some question using midpoints of midpoints,since the composite chart is itself a function of midpoints.but, the concept of "double" midpoints goes back to Ebertin's classic midpoint work.

starlink,
funny i was thinking about a monograph on midpoint analysis in composites.i'll mull your suggestion around.

thanks again all
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Unread 06-25-2009, 05:50 PM
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Re: Why didn't this relationship work out with so many great aspects?

Vista, I'm glad it helps you process out your loss. I love astrology for that -- for finding more meaning and understanding. BTW, I do not think that Saturn on Asc is a definite indication of a difficulty relationship. In my case, for e.g. I loved the man who placed his Saturn on my Asc dearly, and there was a lot of tenderness and warmth from my side, but he was cold and unappreciateve of me. ALthough, I believe it could have worked out differently. It was just his choice.[/QUOTE]

Hi Elumen,
Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I would agree Saturn on the ASC is not completely a deal breaker, but it worked out just as you said with my being very warm and loving with and him being cold and appreciative of me. He was very critical of me as well. I will, if anything be very Leary of dating someone again with this aspect regardless.
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