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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 02-15-2020, 03:03 AM
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Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

I think having a thread is crucial in traditional astrology that is often ignored today. Thankfully, we have many surviving works to help us discern this important and crucial topic.

Of course, this is just for educational purposes. It's absolutely useful to know in vivid detail, especially their specific proclivities that are dependent on the planetary configurations, such as the type and nature of the evil actions, e.g. dominance (unnatural), aggression (approaching a man), liberality (excess sex), nymphomania, lesbianism, exhibitionism, etc. Knowing the specific acts, the characteristics, attributes, features, and peculiarities, will give you the knowledge of conduct, of such women...so you can stay away from them of course

I shall start.

In the Complatio de astorum scientia, written by Leopold of Austria says:
Et si nascitur mulier et martis est sic ut dicitur est in signo femino: quae nascitur meretrix erit."
Which basically means that if a woman is born under a feminine astrological sign, such as Taurus, and Mars is in that sign, then the woman will be a whore.

In the Wife of Bath's own damning testimony of her passionate and scandalous nature: Myn ascendent was Taur, and Mars therinne. / Allas, allas! That ever love was synne

Information above taken from Edgar S. Laird's Mars in Taurus at the Nativity of the Wife of Bath(English language Notes, 1990) where he talks about when the Wife of Bath in the Canterbury Tales talks about her Mars-Taurus causing her amorous nature. She was considered one of the first prototypes of feminist behavior in literature, which was deeply unnatural at the time.

Some more bold quotes from this shocking woman:
For certes, I am al Venerien
In feelynge, and myn herte is Marcien
Venus me yaf my list, my likerousnesse
And Mars yaf me my study hardynesse


Evers, Jim W, own analysis in "Some Implications of Caucer's Use of Astrology in the Canterbury Tales, Duke University (1971)" gives us insight on her nature.
"The Wife makes every effort to portray herself as a vital, aggressive woman; and her abundant and color autobiographical insertions illustrating the Mars-Venus influence upon her life forshadow her militantly feminist ideas on her announced subject--"Wo that is in marriage.""


The completed quote of the Wife of Bath:

I folwed ay myn inclinacioun
By vertu of my constellacioun
That made me I koude noght withdrawe
My chambre of Venus from a good felawe
Yet I have Martes mark upon my face,
And also in another privee place


The author them attempts to rectify her chart based on these lustful aspects. Though, according to them, it seemed more likely that Mars was not in the sign alone, but was in conjunction with Mars, 'as the Wife associates the influence of Venus with Mars.'

Unfortunately, my Mars in in a feminine sign.


Last edited by Bunraku; 02-15-2020 at 03:07 AM.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:16 AM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Firmicus Maternus
Venus on the ascendant by day makes the natives oversexed, unchaste, of ill repute.

In the 10th house...
A woman with Venus in this house will be oversexed, addicted to all kinds of pleasurere-a prostitute who sets herself up in business or lets herself out to a pimp. But all these things are accomplished according to the nature and quality of the signs. In mutable, tropical, or scaly signs, or in the house of Saturn, the native will have a bad reputation forever and will commit unnatural acts in a variety of ways. But if Venus in this house is in a feminine sign and the waxing Moon, also in a feminine sign, is in aspect to Mars, this will make eunuchs, castrates, or hermaphrodites who do what women are accustomed to do when driven by extraordinary lust
.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:18 AM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)


Venus overheats the mind and incites base loves.


Absolutely wretched
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:19 AM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

...Logic proves that what we have said is true. For when Venus is located as we have described, and if Saturn is in any aspect, this produces minds involved in perverse vices, not successful in any normal human activities, especially if the combination of Venus and Saturn is found in a nocturnal chart. But if Venus in this house is aspected to Jupiter, the native is freed from the evil described above. For then he attains an increase of income through his own efforts and is free from taint of vice, if, however, the Moon is not in opposition....
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Unread 02-15-2020, 09:10 AM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
But on the other hand, when the luminaries in the aforesaid configuration are unattended in feminine signs, the females exceed in the natural, and the males in unnatural practice, with the result that their souls become soft and effeminate. If Venus too is made feminine, the women become depraved, adulterous, and lustful, with the result that they may be dealt with in the natural manner on any occasion and by any one soever, and so that they refuse absolutely no sexual act, though it be base or unlawful. - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/3D*.html#4
Absolutely no one? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Unread 02-15-2020, 01:09 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
I think having a thread is crucial in traditional astrology that is often ignored today. Thankfully, we have many surviving works to help us discern this important and crucial topic.

Of course, this is just for educational purposes. It's absolutely useful to know in vivid detail, especially their specific proclivities that are dependent on the planetary configurations, such as the type and nature of the evil actions, e.g. dominance (unnatural), aggression (approaching a man), liberality (excess sex), nymphomania, lesbianism, exhibitionism, etc. Knowing the specific acts, the characteristics, attributes, features, and peculiarities, will give you the knowledge of conduct, of such women...so you can stay away from them of course

I shall start.

In the Complatio de astorum scientia, written by Leopold of Austria says:
Et si nascitur mulier et martis est sic ut dicitur est in signo femino: quae nascitur meretrix erit."
Which basically means that if a woman is born under a feminine astrological sign, such as Taurus, and Mars is in that sign, then the woman will be a whore.

In the Wife of Bath's own damning testimony of her passionate and scandalous nature: Myn ascendent was Taur, and Mars therinne. / Allas, allas! That ever love was synne

Information above taken from Edgar S. Laird's Mars in Taurus at the Nativity of the Wife of Bath(English language Notes, 1990) where he talks about when the Wife of Bath in the Canterbury Tales talks about her Mars-Taurus causing her amorous nature. She was considered one of the first prototypes of feminist behavior in literature, which was deeply unnatural at the time.

Some more bold quotes from this shocking woman:
For certes, I am al Venerien
In feelynge, and myn herte is Marcien
Venus me yaf my list, my likerousnesse
And Mars yaf me my study hardynesse


Evers, Jim W, own analysis in "Some Implications of Caucer's Use of Astrology in the Canterbury Tales, Duke University (1971)" gives us insight on her nature.
"The Wife makes every effort to portray herself as a vital, aggressive woman; and her abundant and color autobiographical insertions illustrating the Mars-Venus influence upon her life forshadow her militantly feminist ideas on her announced subject--"Wo that is in marriage.""


The completed quote of the Wife of Bath:

I folwed ay myn inclinacioun
By vertu of my constellacioun
That made me I koude noght withdrawe
My chambre of Venus from a good felawe
Yet I have Martes mark upon my face,
And also in another privee place


The author them attempts to rectify her chart based on these lustful aspects. Though, according to them, it seemed more likely that Mars was not in the sign alone, but was in conjunction with Mars, 'as the Wife associates the influence of Venus with Mars.'

Unfortunately, my Mars in in a feminine sign.
Thank you for the post. It is clear to me why odds mentioned "Man eater" and "Sag-Sun, Cap Mars" in the same sentence.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 01:26 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

Firmicus Maternus
Venus on the ascendant by day
makes the natives oversexed, unchaste, of ill repute.
In the 10th house... A woman with Venus in this house will be oversexed, addicted to all kinds of pleasurere
-a prostitute who sets herself up in business
or lets herself out to a pimp.

But all these things
are accomplished according to the nature
and quality of the signs.
who'd a thunk that Firmicus Maternus keeps in mind
that generalisation is fun but unreliable
and so

helpfully adds as follows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

In mutable, tropical, or scaly signs,
or in the house of Saturn,
the native will have a bad reputation forever
and will commit unnatural acts in a variety of ways.

But
if
Venus in this house is in a feminine sign
and the waxing Moon, also in a feminine sign, is in aspect to Mars,
this will make eunuchs, castrates, or hermaphrodites
who do what women are accustomed to do
when driven by extraordinary lust.
therefore one is advised to RTFM IN ITS ENTIRETY
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:37 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

From sevenstarAstrology

Dorotheus (1st century CE)
Aries, Taurus, Capricorn, and Pisces comprise the early list of lustful signs given by Dorotheus (1st century CE).

Quote:
“If Venus is in one of the signs of desire, which abound in lust (they are Aries, Capricorn, Pisces, and Taurus), and Venus is under the [Sun’s] rays with Saturn or Mars, then this indicates [something] like what I told you of the act of scandals; [it indicates] similarly if you find Venus in what I named for you of the signs of desire and one of the two malefics, Saturn and Mars, is overcoming it [Venus] from quartile.” (Dorotheus, Book II,. Ch. 7, #5, Pingree trans., 2005, p. 206)

Utterly depraved.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:37 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

From the same website:

Rhetorius
Quote:
Rhetorius (6th-7th century CE)
Leo is added to the list of Rhetorius (perhaps from Hephaistio), as well as Libra noted to a lesser extent.

“The lecherous signs are Aries, Taurus, Leo, Capricorn in part, and Pisces; and Libra because the [constellation of the] Goat rises with it.” (Rhetorius, Ch. 76, Holden trans., 2009, p. 125)

However, in another section, speaking only of the placement of Venus, he associates the domiciles of Saturn and Mars with lechery generally when the malefics aspect Venus.

“Venus in Capricorn or Pisces or Scorpio or Taurus aspected by Saturn or Mars makes lechers, especially [if she is] under the sunbeams. Venus in the domicile of Saturn or Mars [and] aspected by them makes lechers.” (Rhetorius, Ch. 66, Holden trans., 2009, p. 121)
Disgusting and deplorable.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:38 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

From the same website:

Compare the list given by al-Qabisi (10th century CE).
Quote:
“And certain ones are said to be very wanton: Aries, Taurus, Leo, and Capricorn.” (al-Qabisi, Introduction to Astrology, Book I, Ch. 24, Dykes trans., 2010, p. 64)
Miserable. This makes me sick!
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:41 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

The same website:

Ptolemy (2nd century CE)
Ptolemy did not give a list of lustful signs, but did note incest as a possible indication for Venus being in the same sign of Mars when that sign was Capricorn or Pisces. Mercury in the same sign additionally indicated notoriety.
Quote:
“Therefore Venus, with Mars, produces merely amorous dispositions, but if Mercury is present, notoriety also; in the common and familiar signs, Capricorn and Pisces, unions with brethren or kindred.” (Ptolemy, Book IV, Ch. 5, Robbins trans., 1940, p. 401)
I have never witnessed such nasty readings.
I have witnessed truly something shameful.

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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:42 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

However, in the name of astrological duty, I am forever in search for the truth and the heart of the matter. I have taken the role to rescue you all, and save you from your hands becoming dirty by sacrificing mine in sin, so that astrological knowledge and wisdom can be revealed.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:48 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
The same website:

Ptolemy (2nd century CE)
Ptolemy did not give a list of lustful signs, but did note incest as a possible indication for Venus being in the same sign of Mars when that sign was Capricorn or Pisces. Mercury in the same sign additionally indicated notoriety.


I have never witnessed such nasty readings.
I have witnessed truly something shameful.
Generalization is fun, but unreliable.

Keep in mind that ''among all genethlialogical inquiries whatever, a more general destiny takes precedence of all particular considerations, namely, that of country of birth, to which the major details of a geniture are naturally subordinate, such as the topics of the form of the body, the character of the soul and the variations of manners and customs, it is also necessary that he who makes his inquiry naturally should always hold first to the primary and more authoritative cause, lest, misled by the similarity of the genitures, he should unwitting generally call, let us say, the Ethiopian white or straight-haired, and the German or Gaul black-skinned and woolly-haired, or the latter gentle in character, fond of discussion, or fond of contemplation, and the Greeks savage of soul and untutored of mind; or, again, on the subject of marriage, lest he mistake the appropriate customs and manners by assigning, for example, marriage with a sister to one who is Italian by race, instead of to the Egyptian as he should, and a marriage with his mother to this latter, though it suits the Persian. Thus in general it is needful first to apprehend universal conditions of destiny, and then to attach to them the particular conditions which relate to degree.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/4C*.html#10

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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Generalization is fun, but unreliable.

Keep in mind that ''among all genethlialogical inquiries whatever, a more general destiny takes precedence of all particular considerations, namely, that of country of birth, to which the major details of a geniture are naturally subordinate, such as the topics of the form of the body, the character of the soul and the variations of manners and customs, it is also necessary that he who makes his inquiry naturally should always hold first to the primary and more authoritative cause, lest, misled by the similarity of the genitures, he should unwitting generally call, let us say, the Ethiopian white or straight-haired, and the German or Gaul black-skinned and woolly-haired, or the latter gentle in character, fond of discussion, or fond of contemplation, and the Greeks savage of soul and untutored of mind; or, again, on the subject of marriage, lest he mistake the appropriate customs and manners by assigning, for example, marriage with a sister to one who is Italian by race, instead of to the Egyptian as he should, and a marriage with his mother to this latter, though it suits the Persian. Thus in general it is needful first to apprehend universal conditions of destiny, and then to attach to them the particular conditions which relate to degree.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...html#10:smile:
Is that a yes?
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:51 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
However, in the name of astrological duty, I am forever in search for the truth and the heart of the matter. I have taken the role to rescue you all, and save you from your hands becoming dirty by sacrificing mine in sin, so that astrological knowledge and wisdom can be revealed.
I find it interesting that the ancient Greco-Roman pagans have such ''Puritan'' standards on adultery and licentiousness on both men and women.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:52 PM
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I find it interesting that the ancient Greco-Roman pagans have such ''Puritan'' standards on adultery and licentiousness on both men and women.
Well, do you think they were additions post-golden age/civilization?
Seems like a lot of works/texts get the post-Mortem treatment, of makeup and various prosthetics...
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:53 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

I have JupiterAsc’s chart
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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:57 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Well, do you think they were additions post-golden age/civilization?
Seems like a lot of works/texts get the post-Mortem treatment, of makeup and various prosthetics...
You might look into Valens and Anonymous for licentious indicators as well.

I don't think so for a few reasons - all texts have them and it fits the culture, the Christian monks and scribes didn't change all the idolatrous stuff in Hephaistio and Valens for example, and no historian/linguistic scholar has challenged these passages based on language or other historical evidence from that time period.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 09:16 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

I have JupiterAsc’s chart
Siriusly
I insist you post that on this thread for the illumination of all
here's a link to reliable chart calculation free online
at https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Siriusly
I insist you post that on this thread for the illumination of all
here's a link to reliable chart calculation free online
at https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology
JA, I don't know why you act so forgetful, when in one of the many correspondences we had we discussed your birth chart in detail, if I remember correctly.

Well, anyways it seems like that website is pay-to-use, which is something I don't agree with when astro.com is free. Instead, I'll provide you with one generated from a free website. Attached
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File Type: jpg JupiterASC Chart rectification animodar .jpg (41.8 KB, 15 views)
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Unread 02-15-2020, 10:45 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

JA, I don't know why you act so forgetful,
when in one of the many correspondences we had
we discussed your birth chart in detail,
as ptedious as ptolemy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

if I remember correctly.
IF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

Well, anyways it seems like that website is pay-to-use,
in fact charts are free to calculate on that site
free natal chart calculator at https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post

which is something
I don't agree with when astro.com is free.
Instead, I'll provide you with one generated from a free website. Attached
the following is the accurate version

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Unread 02-15-2020, 10:49 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

JA, that's a lovely birth chart.

I heard the Cancer rising, or the heliacal rising of Sirius, marked a wet and fertile time for the Egyptians

I get more surprised the more I interpret your chart. I never knew this side of you before!
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Unread 02-15-2020, 10:50 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

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as ptedious as ptolemy
Stop calling ma boy that way, you are making me triggered
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Unread 02-15-2020, 10:52 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

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Stop calling ma boy that way, you are making me triggered
ptedious choice of name for ya boy
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Unread 02-15-2020, 10:55 PM
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Re: Indicators of DEBASED and ABJECT women (warning: utterly lascivious /shocking)

JA's 5th house is the fertile and lustful Mars ruled Scorpio. Coupled with a strong Venus in Libra at the stakes and with a very moist and fecund rising.

Certainly s/he achieves the object of his/her desires where s/he embraces them in the secret/hidden 4th house, the subterraneous place, the house of "endings," and with Venus, blessing that house in a night chart, we can certainly say those endings will be of a "happy" quality

JA this is truly shocking. I had no idea you were like this!
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