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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 05-25-2017, 12:39 AM
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Interceptions and Duplicates

I have intercepted Leo in the 10th and obviously Aquarius in the 4th. My Duplicates are Aries in 6th and 7th, with Libra in 12th and 1st.

I get the basic understanding that a duplicate is a place in life you were denied or things you lacked as a child that you sort of have to figure out on your own as an adult, I just don't know exactly how to figure them out. I read on Bob Marks site that you look to the ruler of the intercepted sign unless that ruler is in the sign, and mine is. My sun is in Leo. Uranus is in my 2nd, so not in it's own sign.

I read you should look to your duplicate signs and houses in the case that the ruler sits in the duplicate sign. What exactly should you be looking for and how will the duplicates help you fill in what you lack?

For the life of me, I can't seem to make these things connect even though something tells me the answer should be fairly simple, given the fact that I do understand astrology to a certain point.

Any advice would be appreciated! Please only nice, serious responses. Thank you!

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Unread 05-25-2017, 03:26 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

It's probably just as well that I haven't read Bob Marks on this.

First of all, duplicate and intercepted signs are to some extent artifacts of your house system. If you go to whole signs or equal houses-- and perhaps even a different quadrant system-- they disappear.

I don't think intercepted signs on their own are a particular issue. Planets in intercepted signs do not seem to get the traction or power to act that we would otherwise expect.

Do you work with house cusp rulers (lords)? If not, these are the planets ruling the signs on house cusp. For example, with Virgo on the cusp of someone's second house, Mercury becomes the ruler or lord of the second house. You can use modern planetary rulers (Uranus rules Aquarius,) traditional rulers (Saturn rules Aquarius,) or both.

There are two ways to look at house cusp rulers:

(1) "The house over which a planet rules serves the purposes of the house in which that planet stands." (Karen Hamaker-Zondag)

(2) A house cusp ruler wants to help the affairs of its house. Whether it can do so effectively or poorly depends upon the situation and condition of this planet. Traditionally, we would look at essential and accidental dignities (Demetra George)

So maybe the reason why a planet in an intercepted sign doesn't get the oomph you would otherwise expect is because it's not getting help from its house cusp ruler.

By the same token, a planet ruling duplicate signs should become more powerful, because it influences more than just its usual compliment of sign rulerships.

Why you would have to pull your childhood into any of this I can't imagine, unless the 4th house is involved with an intercepted planet.
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  #3  
Unread 05-25-2017, 04:31 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

From what I've read, intercepted signs are a part of life that was not developed (either through childhood, or through karma from past life), and are therefor blocked and have to be developed in *this* lifetime, or as an adult I suppose for someone who doesn't believe in past life. The task, or point, is to learn how to incorporate these signs into the area of life that they fall in. This is what I've gathered so far.

No planets in the 4th, but I do have sn, conjunct the IC, in different signs.

Yes, I work with rulers. The ruler, mars, of my duplicate 6th and 7th is in the 9th house, in Cancer. My Venus, the ruler of the 12th and 1st, is in Leo along with my sun and nn, but not conjunct. I attached my chart if you want to take a look at it.

I think you're the only person that ever responds to posts around here. Thank you.
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Unread 05-25-2017, 04:35 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

I also don't know why my chart uploaded with parts cut off.
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Unread 05-25-2017, 08:05 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Balooga, are you familiar with Occam's Razor? It's based on a medieval cleric's principle on how to select between competing hypotheses when the truth of a matter is unknown. To paraphrase: the proposition requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.

If you're deeply into karmic and past-lives astrology or miserable childhoods, that's fine; but I find them unnecessary to a basic understanding of intercepted planets, duplicate houses, and how they function in a horoscope.

I don't know why your chart was cropped, but if you reduce it to 75% before posting, that should help.
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Unread 05-25-2017, 08:27 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Balooga, one dicey thing about your chart is your MC-IC axis so close to the sign cusps, at 29 degrees. If your birth time is slightly off, such that it moved to 0 degrees of Leo/Aquarius, your interceptions would disappear, as it would with whole signs, equal houses, and possibly a different quadrant house system.

Assuming this chart is correct, it looks like your sun, NN, and Venus in Leo are intercepted. My reading of this, is that normally we'd expect your domiciled, angular sun in Leo to be a real power house. The 10th house normally gives one's vocation and public image. The NN shows where your growth lies. So if you have difficulty in understanding who you are, and don't feel particularly empowered, the interception may play a part.

But then, you also have Pluto square sun, which is a tough aspect for developing a clear sense of self, as well. People with this placement were often bullied as children, so they grow up with a loss of trust, and tend to construe ordinary human relationships as a "dominate or be dominated" zero-sum game.

You have no planets in your intercepted sign of Aquarius. With Capricorn on the cusp of your 5th house, Saturn is an important player in your early childhood conditioning. You've got a tight Saturn-Jupiter squaring Mars, so this suggests a fair bit of tension in your childhood home. As does that partile moon-Pluto opposition. Did you experience your mother as particularly troubled?

Venus and Mars rule the cusps of your duplicate signs, so these planets have more say about how your life works out, because they rule more houses.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #7  
Unread 05-25-2017, 11:32 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

This is really interesting . Thanks for this..
Been trying to figure this one out ..
I have Libra 12th cusp with Scorpio planets Sun, Venus, Neptune (3rd Deacon). So who is the ruler ? Scorpio Ascendant with Scorpio Mercury /Sag Moon 1st House....Again who is the ruler?
So your saying if I do an equal house System I should go by this.?
I did a Natal with deacons to help clarify the Rulers .
it reads the Scorpio rulers not the Libran rulers for the 12th House
Sag/Jupter for the 1st house.
I realize its my birthplace that makes it Messy and confusing (a bit like me)
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Unread 05-26-2017, 01:57 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Luney, with the chart you have posted, you will see Libra on the cusp of your 12th house. This means that Venus is the house cusp ruler (lord) of your 12th house.

With Scorpio on the cusp of your first house, Pluto is the modern ruler and Mars is the traditional ruler of your first house.

I note that you have a very late degree rising. If you use the whole signs house system, each house begins at zero degrees of the sign: one entire sign=one entire house. The whole signs house system would move all of your Scorpio planets to the first house, and your Sagittarius planets to the second house.

This is why I say that intercepted signs and planets are, to some extent, an artifact of which house system you select.

There are a lot of house systems you can play around with on the free charts pages at www.astro.com, where you got your chart. See which one most feels like the real you.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #9  
Unread 05-26-2017, 02:15 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

I concur with Waybread: interceptions are entirely artificial, being a function of particular house system models, because of the mathematical hypotheses underlying them. In whole sign, and in equal house models, interceptions never occur, just like they never occur out there- in space- either...
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Unread 05-26-2017, 04:00 AM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Luney, with the chart you have posted, you will see Libra on the cusp of your 12th house. This means that Venus is the house cusp ruler (lord) of your 12th house.

With Scorpio on the cusp of your first house, Pluto is the modern ruler and Mars is the traditional ruler of your first house.

I note that you have a very late degree rising. If you use the whole signs house system, each house begins at zero degrees of the sign: one entire sign=one entire house. The whole signs house system would move all of your Scorpio planets to the first house, and your Sagittarius planets to the second house.

This is why I say that intercepted signs and planets are, to some extent, an artifact of which house system you select.

There are a lot of house systems you can play around with on the free charts pages at www.astro.com, where you got your chart. See which one most feels like the real you.
Thankyou soooo Much.. This makes so much more sense to me.
Yes I will play around with some different charts that work for me.. using the whole house system. I might finally find my true vocation..
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Unread 09-26-2017, 10:03 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Balooga, one dicey thing about your chart is your MC-IC axis so close to the sign cusps, at 29 degrees. If your birth time is slightly off, such that it moved to 0 degrees of Leo/Aquarius, your interceptions would disappear, as it would with whole signs, equal houses, and possibly a different quadrant house system.

Assuming this chart is correct, it looks like your sun, NN, and Venus in Leo are intercepted. My reading of this, is that normally we'd expect your domiciled, angular sun in Leo to be a real power house. The 10th house normally gives one's vocation and public image. The NN shows where your growth lies. So if you have difficulty in understanding who you are, and don't feel particularly empowered, the interception may play a part.

But then, you also have Pluto square sun, which is a tough aspect for developing a clear sense of self, as well. People with this placement were often bullied as children, so they grow up with a loss of trust, and tend to construe ordinary human relationships as a "dominate or be dominated" zero-sum game.

You have no planets in your intercepted sign of Aquarius. With Capricorn on the cusp of your 5th house, Saturn is an important player in your early childhood conditioning. You've got a tight Saturn-Jupiter squaring Mars, so this suggests a fair bit of tension in your childhood home. As does that partile moon-Pluto opposition. Did you experience your mother as particularly troubled?

Venus and Mars rule the cusps of your duplicate signs, so these planets have more say about how your life works out, because they rule more houses.
Completely forgot about this post. My apologies for not responding sooner! Thanks so much, Waybread. You always give the best responses.

Without going into too much detail, yes, my childhood was riddled with "bullies" and physical, emotional, and sexual abuse at home, from a sibling and step-father. My mother basically was either turning a blind eye to either matter or egging things on. It just depended on her mood. My real father and older brother weren't around to be of help.

This year is the first year I've really talked openly about any of it. No one knew about a great deal of it because I was too scared/proud/embarrassed of it for most of my life. I kept most all of it very much a secret. Even friends that I'd known forever didn't know about most of it. I held it all in, and it began to show in my health and day to day life, to the point that it literally caused physical pain.

Funny that Uranus crossed my moon and is now pingponging along my DC, activating the Pluto/Moon, ASC/Moon oppositions. I definitely didn't see any of it coming, but it all just sort of erupted out of nowhere from my subconscious this year.
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  #12  
Unread 09-26-2017, 10:52 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Thanks, and best wishes on your healing journey.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 09-26-2017, 11:08 PM
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Re: Interceptions and Duplicates

Thank you.
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