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Vocational Astrology Discuss finding out more about your work, job, career, calling, or whatever you do or want to do for a living.


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  #1  
Unread 06-23-2016, 03:49 AM
Waki Waki is offline
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Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Dear all

It's been more than one year that I really wonder if I should not start all over again from scratch.
Which is something I have already done at least once 20 years ago, and somehow again 10 years ago, and to a lesser extent 5 years ago...
But those days without any knowledge of astrology.

I have an impressive Mercury in the 3rd (where the Sun also stands, but Sun aspects strickly nothing, besides being tighlty conjuct asteroid Vesta) and Mercury rules both MC and the VII.
If you go by triplicity and terms, Mercury affects other planets and points too, and it strongly rules Jupiter in the 9th.
But Mercury in detriment and fall, retrograde and slow, and no good aspects whatsoever. Makes me a great thinker, but quite an ineffective one...?
Same with Jupiter in the 9th --in detriment, retrograde, no good aspects.
And Mercury and Jupiter oppose each other.

Mars is not in too bad position, but in the 4th. Venus not to bad but not too good either...

Fortuna by night is in 11 Leo 08. It receives no major aspect from anything, save loosely opposite to Aqua Sun (orb 7)

With Uranus and Pluto in the X (and Mars opposing them, tighlty opposing Pluto), I am maybe bound to have lots of ups and downs and struggles in my career. I am getting quite tired of it by now and would welcome suggestions, ideas, insights !!

Current progression is Mercury, Venus and Moon in the 4th. I am celibate, not interested in settling into a family life. I hope he 4th can be about something else

I am going through Chiron return.
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File Type: jpg Mimi natal chart.jpg (87.0 KB, 38 views)

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  #2  
Unread 07-12-2016, 08:20 PM
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

I'm tempted to think education is suiting your here.

Virgo MC, Neptune 12th/conjunct Rising point, Mercury/Sun in 3rd (communication with neighbours/contemporaries), TN in 5th, and Jupiter in 9th. show this to me.

Plus Uranus and Pluto in 10th show looking for change and higher truth/imagination. Maybe teaching in an emerging field of an established study, like a new branch of ICT, or biology, or physics.
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  #3  
Unread 07-25-2016, 12:55 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Thank you Ukdesifem!

Yes, right, i am a gifted teacher / speaker and find teaching or lecturing quite enjoyable. Including the positive feed back i get.
I guess Sun and Mercury in H3 do that as well as possibly Jupiter H9 as you kindly point. Maybe Moon in Gemini too?. So, the detriment and retrogradation of both Mercury and Jupiter and their square to the Moon is not so bad? Or...

The pb with education is that I don't find it nourishing enough for me for my personal development. Somehow it is not fulfilling my deep need for a self transformation. Definitely teaching sciences would not help as it is too intellectual a matter. I gave tuition in maths and physics and gave up. It's too boring. Too shallow somehow. Yes I am somewhat intelligent but intelligence is too dry not to the point of what life is about.
Could that be because of the rising Scorpio (with both Pluto and Mars angular)? Could that be because of the moon square to Jupiter and Mercury -- and opposing Neptune? If so what would be the possibility?

Why did you see Neptune in the 12th conjunct rising point as indicating Education?

Maybe i need to find an educational field with much more depth than any cknventional intellectual knowledge -- more psychological or spitual in the sense of transformative... but that would imply i also gain some mastery in these fields and so far this seems to me like a whole life journey. Not sure when I will be qualified to teach. And no idea what the environment could be then that supports such kind of non intellectual education.

Would you like to comment or suggest anything? I would be very grateful to be able to explore more.
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  #4  
Unread 07-25-2016, 01:11 PM
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[QUOTE=Waki;704357]Thank you Ukdesifem!

Yes, right, i am a gifted teacher / speaker and find teaching or lecturing quite enjoyable. Including the positive feed back i get.
I guess Sun and Mercury in H3 do that as well as possibly Jupiter H9 as you kindly point. Maybe Moon in Gemini too?. So, the detriment and retrogradation of both Mercury and Jupiter and their square to the Moon is not so bad? Or...

With a loose orb my Aquarius Sun is square the Scorpio rising point and Neptune. I guess that explains why it is not easy to find self-fulfilment?

I found out today that the otherwise unaspected Sun (however conjunct Vesta) has an extact septile aspect to MC. Not sure what that could indicate for a vocation but there might be something to dig. Uh...What?

And speaking about minor aspects, its loose square to the rising point in Scorpio and to Neptune are Novile (rather binovile) aspects. Frankly i am just puzzled but if ever the conflict between Aquarious and Scorpio explains my visceral disinterest in teachings, maybe the novile holds a key? What is the lock then and where is that leading too ???
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Unread 07-25-2016, 01:12 PM
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[QUOTE=Waki;704357]Thank you Ukdesifem!

Yes, right, i am a gifted teacher / speaker and find teaching or lecturing quite enjoyable. Including the positive feed back i get.
I guess Sun and Mercury in H3 do that as well as possibly Jupiter H9 as you kindly point. Maybe Moon in Gemini too?. So, the detriment and retrogradation of both Mercury and Jupiter and their square to the Moon is not so bad? Or...

With a loose orb my Aquarius Sun is square the Scorpio rising point and Neptune. I guess that explains why it is not easy to find self-fulfilment?

I found out today that the otherwise unaspected Sun (however conjunct Vesta) has an extact septile aspect to MC. Not sure what that could indicate for a vocation but there might be something to dig. Uh...What?

And speaking about minor aspects, its loose square to the rising point in Scorpio and to Neptune are Novile (rather binovile) aspects. Frankly i am just puzzled but if ever the conflict between Aquarious and Scorpio explains my visceral disinterest in teachings, maybe the novile holds a key? What is the lock then and where would that lead to ???
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  #6  
Unread 08-12-2016, 05:43 PM
MiaMiaMia MiaMiaMia is offline
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Post Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

file:///Users/Ida/Downloads/Career%2...rch%20Data.pdf

This is a little study on career choice and natal aspects, included are teachers, arists, performers, military, scientists, etc...

The sample size is small, but it´s an interesting approach
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  #7  
Unread 08-12-2016, 06:18 PM
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

[QUOTE=Waki;704361]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Thank you Ukdesifem!

Yes, right, i am a gifted teacher / speaker and find teaching or lecturing quite enjoyable. Including the positive feed back i get.
I guess Sun and Mercury in H3 do that as well as possibly Jupiter H9 as you kindly point. Maybe Moon in Gemini too?. So, the detriment and retrogradation of both Mercury and Jupiter and their square to the Moon is not so bad? Or...

With a loose orb my Aquarius Sun is square the Scorpio rising point and Neptune. I guess that explains why it is not easy to find self-fulfilment?

I found out today that the otherwise unaspected Sun (however conjunct Vesta) has an extact septile aspect to MC. Not sure what that could indicate for a vocation but there might be something to dig. Uh...What?

And speaking about minor aspects, its loose square to the rising point in Scorpio and to Neptune are Novile (rather binovile) aspects. Frankly i am just puzzled but if ever the conflict between Aquarious and Scorpio explains my visceral disinterest in teachings, maybe the novile holds a key? What is the lock then and where would that lead to ???
sorry for the late reply.
Sun is your life force, so any aspect between it and the MC is important. This depends on your Sun sign, MC, and even the exact degrees of Sun and MC.

Aquarius and Scorpio are both fixed signs, so you may need something more rooted, grounded and permanent.
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  #8  
Unread 08-17-2016, 10:35 AM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

1) Many thanks, MIAMIAMIA.

The link you kindly provide does not lead... anywhere! It seems to be an internal link to a file located... in your personal PC (and I must confess, I have no access there )

2) Hi, UKdesifem, thanks for reverting!

Your comment on Fixed signs is very precious. I have otherwise a great deal of Mutable signs in my chart (very little Cardinal), and that does seem to be tricky because i change place and adjust to change and situations and yield very easily, while building a career usually implies standing firm and taking action...

So do you mean I must try to root and ground... in the vocations indicated by Aquarious Sun and Scorpio rising?

What could the combination of these two signs? They don't match very well....

The aspect between H3 Sun (18 Aqua 21) and MC (14 Virgo 15) is a trispetile with an orb of 0:11.
My software gives this septile a strength of 2,5 points, compared to, say, my Pluto H10 opposed to Mars H4 that gets 25 points. So it’s very, very minor. I have also no idea what to do with a triseptile

The aspect between Sun and AS is a binovile, another of these very obscure aspects, with an orb of 0:28. My sofware gives it a strength of 2 pts. Again this is something I have no idea what I can do with.

I have lately studied my midpoints with great harvest of... too much data, especially regarding the Sun and MC. There are several planets right on my natal Sun/MC midpoint (or making the usual hard aspects to it that uranian astrology consider equal to a conjunction):

- Sun/MC is conjunct the Ascendant (Rising point) with an orb of 1: 28'

- Mercury (2 Pisc, H3) and Jupiter (2 Vir, H9) are squaring SUN/MC
the orb of 0:49 for Mercury and 1:11 for Jupiter (these two, in mutual recpetion, both in detriment and retrograde, are forming an axis with a partile opposition in the natal chart).

- SUN/MC = Venus also, with an orb of 1: 13

I am happy to welcome Venus in that equation. She is supposed to be quite related to my vocation because she is in Cap (15 Cap), H2, and tight trine to MC. But I am not sure I have known how to use her in my work so far... she is a bit repressed (receving a square from Saturn H5, 8Aries). Well, Pluto transit has been working hard on waking her up lately but I am still unsure about the outcome, especially in terms of career.

3) To all, a renewed call for help!
I am more and more concerned about the current tension between MC and FC. Neptune is transiting now around my Pisces FC, that is opposing my MC, and about to enter H4. Also on the FC threshold are now both progressed Mercury and Venus, and their long progression over years + Neptune there too seems to be pulling all my energy away from MC and dissolving any will I have to accomplish something out there for the larger world (I have natally 2 planets in H10 and Jupiter in Virgo/H9 too). The Moon is now also progressing in H4, pulling away from the bigger society. I feel very frustrated in my hopes to contribute, all the more so because Jupiter is transiting my MC direct and retrograde and now again direct, and Pluto is making a wondrous trine to my MC, so these two are bringing opportunities. (my natal Venus is in 15 Capricorn, also trining my natal MC). I am yet unable to grab properly whatever opportunities, posititions and work that has showed up, because I am lacking energy and strength and also the capacity to sustain any interest (plus the tasks are a bit demanding).

This is lasting and devastatingly frustrating, I feel very confused and puzzled about my potential position in the world, given this strange weakness I am plagued with. As I said before, i don’t have a household or family (H4) so these are not things I am interested in investing in –though my natal Mars is in H4. I suspect the key might be Neptune, who is natally conjunct my AS, but that is fishy to say the least.
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  #9  
Unread 08-17-2016, 10:51 AM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

I wish to continue mentioning mid points, because even when sticking to orbs of 1 degree and below, there is a rich picture emerging with lots of significant midpoints. And I hope someone can see soemthing through that!

I do hope this can be of some help to understand what sort of activity would help me contribute best to the community and the world. Hopefully there is a way to harness the little energy I have to fulfill my MC call --whatever it is! I don't even know what it is but it is Virgoan I suspect in the sense that I like to think I am useful and serving --cf. also my Aquarious Sun
(I have Pluto and and Uranus in H10. With Rising Scorpio, Pluto seems to be the dominant planet of the chart.)

In the post above I have mentioned the Sun/MC midpoints. Any one would like to comment?

Below are the midpoints for which my MC is a focal point.
As I said, there is a lot of data, so I am... just lost in there. Might again be this fishy Neptune transit!

(keys: Op means opposition, Co means conjunct, Ca means square, Sc means both semi- and sequisquare. Ky is for Chiron). I tried to stick to orb under 1, but do take in the picture orbs up to 2 when key planets of my chart are involved -- like the sun, of course; Pluto, ruler of As and most elevated planet; Mercury, almuten of the chart by all ways of calculation, etc)

MC
SO SA 0:43 op
SO VE 2:27 sc
LU MA 0:12 sc
LU PL 0:32 sc
ME MA 1:18 op
ME UR 0:53 ca
ME PL 2:02 ca
ME KY 0:17 op
VE PoF 0:51 sc
MA JU 1:31 ca
JU UR 1:09 co
JU PL 1:50 co
JU KY 0:27 ca
UR AS 1:01 sc
UR NE 1:42 sc
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  #10  
Unread 08-17-2016, 11:09 AM
Waki Waki is offline
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Read my chart

Hi there!

I am reviving this because I am quite struggling with my vocation, and unable to see where the way is.
I then tried to gain insight from midpoints, say those for which the MC is the focal point, or the Sun/MC midpoint. But the harverst, even when sticking to tight orbs, is quite huge so I am left as puzzled as before.

[moved this post from a different thread to existing Vocational Forum thread- Moderator]

Last edited by wilsontc; 08-17-2016 at 02:28 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 08-17-2016, 01:00 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Waki,

Perhaps you would like to try a hobby, activity or job more related to your North Node?
The north node is about soul purpose. You have a 5h Aries North Node, this is a lot of strong,
creative energy. An Aries NN is tasked with developing the self in an unselfish way, to find your unique individuality and express it to the world. It is important to balance the needs of self with the needs of others.

The 5th house placement is indicating the use of creative energy, being heart centered, self empowered. Something with spiritual and mental creativity may be satisfying. A goal will be to align your head and your heart. Finding something that your head and heart both agree upon.

Julia
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Unread 08-17-2016, 04:28 PM
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Thank you Moderator, you shifted parts of this to the vocational, where indeed it belongs. I wonder why it's not all there!


Hi Julia. Many thanks for your comment and insight.

Ah, this 5h Aries NN!
It's very attractive and yet scary to me. I suspect that the fact that natal Saturn is there nearby (while I am an Aquarius Sun ruled by Saturn, and Saturn is squaring and repressing, almost grounding my Capricorn Venus) is preventing me from 'indulging' in there. I can see How I am much more comfortable at the South Node, Libra 11house. Very comfortable excepted that it led me nowhere, it seems, if I look at where I am now and how I feel about it. Somehow the current transit of Pluto on my natal Venus helped me realise I have a lot to work on regarding what you call "being heart-centered" ( and T Uranus squaring Venus made it compulosory too). So this is deep wwork in progress.

Certainly when I was young I considered myself a creative artist but I found all sorts of Saturnian ways NOT to invest in mycreativity as a career. I was afraid of becoming narcisstic, of no being able to make a living outof it. However in whatever I did professionnaly later, my favorite funniest time was when I was very creative, designing visuals for instance (be it brochures or PowerPoint slides).

The big challenge is the Aries face of it. I am suffering from low self-esteem combined with dreams of being widely helpful, so I always feel not up to contributing much through my creativity.

Maybe seeing it as a mere innocent hobby can do. I amactually trying to invest more into photography, poetry, writing and drawing these days but again while I enjoy it a lot, I lack the strength to dedicate regular time to that sort of things. I came to see it as a discipline, to force and try to motivate myself, like "I must, in order to feel fulfilment". Is that Saturn interdering again? Not very inspiring.

Would you suggesta way to lift the Saturnian inhibition ?

By the way speaking about Saturn there, in Aries H5, my progressed Sun is approaching it and will be exactly conjunct to it in about a year. At that time progressed Moon will also reach the same point, so it's going to be a progressed New Moon there. On Saturn, in the area indicated by NN!

Also, do you see anything else in the chart that could help support or clarify what I could do with this NN ?

Uranus is transiting my NN these days, back and forth. I am struggling with the call from my SN. I know I need to move on, but frankly I have no idea how and what.

And possibly because of Neptune transiting on my IC, I lack energy, it's pulling me down like crazy!
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Unread 08-18-2016, 06:26 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Thank you Moderator, you shifted parts of this to the vocational, where indeed it belongs. I wonder why it's not all there!


Hi Julia. Many thanks for your comment and insight.

Ah, this 5h Aries NN!
It's very attractive and yet scary to me. I suspect that the fact that natal Saturn is there nearby (while I am an Aquarius Sun ruled by Saturn, and Saturn is squaring and repressing, almost grounding my Capricorn Venus) is preventing me from 'indulging' in there. I can see How I am much more comfortable at the South Node, Libra 11house. Very comfortable excepted that it led me nowhere, it seems, if I look at where I am now and how I feel about it. Somehow the current transit of Pluto on my natal Venus helped me realise I have a lot to work on regarding what you call "being heart-centered" ( and T Uranus squaring Venus made it compulosory too). So this is deep wwork in progress.

Certainly when I was young I considered myself a creative artist but I found all sorts of Saturnian ways NOT to invest in mycreativity as a career. I was afraid of becoming narcisstic, of no being able to make a living outof it. However in whatever I did professionnaly later, my favorite funniest time was when I was very creative, designing visuals for instance (be it brochures or PowerPoint slides).

The big challenge is the Aries face of it. I am suffering from low self-esteem combined with dreams of being widely helpful, so I always feel not up to contributing much through my creativity.

Maybe seeing it as a mere innocent hobby can do. I amactually trying to invest more into photography, poetry, writing and drawing these days but again while I enjoy it a lot, I lack the strength to dedicate regular time to that sort of things. I came to see it as a discipline, to force and try to motivate myself, like "I must, in order to feel fulfilment". Is that Saturn interdering again? Not very inspiring.

Would you suggesta way to lift the Saturnian inhibition ?

By the way speaking about Saturn there, in Aries H5, my progressed Sun is approaching it and will be exactly conjunct to it in about a year. At that time progressed Moon will also reach the same point, so it's going to be a progressed New Moon there. On Saturn, in the area indicated by NN!

Also, do you see anything else in the chart that could help support or clarify what I could do with this NN ?

Uranus is transiting my NN these days, back and forth. I am struggling with the call from my SN. I know I need to move on, but frankly I have no idea how and what.

And possibly because of Neptune transiting on my IC, I lack energy, it's pulling me down like crazy!
Your Saturn is a fairly wide conjunct, so it will not be felt strongly. But in general, planets conjuncting the north node are not a problem. They are there to assist you in your north node development. Saturn near the North Node gives you a sincere and dedicated pathway to personal evolution. Watch out however for beliefs that constrict your growth.

Your comfort zone is 11 house Libra, but your evolution is going to be more about self confidence, strongly grounded sense of Self, your own unique individuality. All expressed in a creative heart felt way.

Yes I think you are using the Saturn energy to restrict and box in yourself. Your North Node projects should be fun, inspiring, heart felt, and an expression of yourself. Experiment and have some fun. Don't make the projects too time consuming or difficult, so you are not tempted to abandon it. Try something creative that is fun, easy and satisfying.

I think also that people seem to get hung up on their north node projects, thinking they have to be Mother Teresa like in scope or intensity. That is simply not the case. I consider any of the artistic contributions to be very important to society. This is a tough planet, many hardships for most of us. People with the gift of artistic talent provide a critical service to humanity. The arts feed our souls on many levels.

That aside, I do see your creativity and art as a way to become more confident, assertive, secure in yourself, and heart centered. So it will be a strengthening for you. We grow into our north node, so it will take time to realize its potential.

T Uranus going back and forth over your NN is nudging you, asking you to make some changes towards soul purpose.

I think you said you also have a Chiron Return going on. So of course that is a huge milestone event.

Julia
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Unread 08-19-2016, 09:13 AM
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Dear Julia
I think your comment makes a lot of sense, thank you!!

I did not dare to ask formerly, when you wrote
Quote:
Perhaps you would like to try a hobby, activity or job more related to your North Node?
The north node is about soul purpose.
I thought you mention NN just because you are into "karmic astrology" but now I realise maybe you think that given my whole chart, its splach pattern and my experience of having a variety of potentals and skills and yet still unsure about the way to go to find fulfilment, the NN could solve it all by providing a compass no other planet can show. Am I right?

The Libra/Aries axis is ruled by Venus and Mars, and it happens that my Sun is sitting on their midpoint. Although they are not otherwise connected, that might be another indication of how I should really pay attention to the Nodal axis to find fulfilment. Would you agree?

Venus is loosely squaring that axis, and I have been told that a sqauring planet indicates the growith is more about finding balance and integration of the 2 poles, rather than just moving towards the NN. Does that make sense to you?

Quote:
Saturn near the North Node gives you a sincere and dedicated pathway to personal evolution. Watch out however for beliefs that constrict your growth.
Quote:
Yes I think you are using the Saturn energy to restrict and box in yourself. Your North Node projects should be fun, inspiring, heart felt, and an expression of yourself. Experiment and have some fun. Don't make the projects too time consuming or difficult, so you are not tempted to abandon it. Try something creative that is fun, easy and satisfying.
Yes, defintely Saturn is to restricting in my life. He is also squaring the already Saturnian Cap Venus, and I came to realise that this was not a gift for me. Hopefully it will turn positive now that I am aware of this influence, and that Pluto and Uranus are transiting on it, calling it to evolve.

Like anyone I love to have fun but unlike most I have removed fun from my dictionnary, life environment, as something shallow and unecessary! I must be very Saturnian... It just does not work very well now. Thanks to Pluto and Uranus transit, no doubt. Reintroducing fun really sounds like an excellent invigorating idea --i did so in very tiny dose lately. Now to really see it as my soul direction just seems like going to another planet though, without spaceship or space map.

Quote:
I think also that people seem to get hung up on their north node projects, thinking they have to be Mother Teresa like in scope or intensity. That is simply not the case. I consider any of the artistic contributions to be very important to society. This is a tough planet, many hardships for most of us. People with the gift of artistic talent provide a critical service to humanity. The arts feed our souls on many levels.
Very valuable comment. For me that does not apply to NN specifically, but to many things I do. Maybe being Aquarius Sun gives that "big collective" idea.

Quote:
I do see your creativity and art as a way to become more confident, assertive, secure in yourself, and heart centered. So it will be a strengthening for you. We grow into our north node, so it will take time to realize its potential.
Wonderful prospect that rings a bell, deep. But again Saturn like opbjection and concern immediately pop up. What could be the good constructive sides of Saturn in Aries that could help in that matter?

Quote:
T Uranus going back and forth over your NN is nudging you, asking you to make some changes towards soul purpose.
I think you said you also have a Chiron Return going on. So of course that is a huge milestone event.
I guess so. But things are still unclear, elusive. (Neptune on IC...)

Many thanks again.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 02:55 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Dear Julia

I think your comment makes a lot of sense, thank you!!
I did not dare to ask formerly, when you wrote

I thought you mention NN just because you are into "karmic astrology" but now I realise maybe you think that given my whole chart, its splach pattern and my experience of having a variety of potentals and skills and yet still unsure about the way to go to find fulfilment, the NN could solve it all by providing a compass no other planet can show. Am I right?
Yes, exactly. You state that you are a teacher, a lecturer, and enjoy the work. So in terms of vocation, there appears to be satisfaction and a good fit. However, you also state that there is something missing in terms of personal fulfillment. The North Node does seem something to consider then. Working on soul purpose for this life might give you what you are looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Libra/Aries axis is ruled by Venus and Mars, and it happens that my Sun is sitting on their midpoint. Although they are not otherwise connected, that might be another indication of how I should really pay attention to the Nodal axis to find fulfilment. Would you agree?
Yes, and reinforces the nodal theme of expressing the self in a unique way. A theme echoed by your Aq Sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Venus is loosely squaring that axis, and I have been told that a sqauring planet indicates the growith is more about finding balance and integration of the 2 poles, rather than just moving towards the NN. Does that make sense to you?
The nodal axis is always about integration and balance, no matter what planets aspect the axis.
We grow into our north node. The goal is to integrate the good from each sign and leave the bad behind. With an Aries/Libra nodal axis, you are to balance self and others, but do so in a way that is true to yourself, with a strong sense of self.

Venus is squaring your nodal axis, again repeating the creative, artistic theme. A planet squaring the nodes gives the potential for integrating the energies of the nodes, but may also may cause a person to feel torn in two about the nodal purpose. If you look at the positive and negative traits of your Venus, you may have a clue as to how she is creating tension on your nodal axis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Yes, defintely Saturn is to restricting in my life. He is also squaring the already Saturnian Cap Venus, and I came to realise that this was not a gift for me. Hopefully it will turn positive now that I am aware of this influence, and that Pluto and Uranus are transiting on it, calling it to evolve.
Yes you can see some of the complexities of your nodal axis.
Saturn is a gift in that he is the way shower, and our Master Teacher. He points out the path of duty and destiny. The planets are gifts to us, to help us on our journey. They are not sent to punish us, but to teach us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Like anyone I love to have fun but unlike most I have removed fun from my dictionnary, life environment, as something shallow and unecessary! I must be very Saturnian... It just does not work very well now. Thanks to Pluto and Uranus transit, no doubt. Reintroducing fun really sounds like an excellent invigorating idea --i did so in very tiny dose lately. Now to really see it as my soul direction just seems like going to another planet though, without spaceship or space map.
Transits to the nodal axis can be triggers to working on the North Node.
It think it is important for you to find the joy and fun of your North Node.
Make it easy and enjoyable.

Saturn is giving you focus and discipline, and your Venus and Aq Sun give you an enjoyment and a sense of freedom about art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Very valuable comment. For me that does not apply to NN specifically, but to many things I do. Maybe being Aquarius Sun gives that "big collective" idea.
Yes exactly, you have a feel for humanity, are forward thinking and in tune with the big picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
prospect that rings a bell, deep. But again Saturn like opbjection and concern immediately pop up. What could be the good constructive sides of Saturn in Aries that could help in that matter?
Do not be afraid of Saturn. Without him mankind would never evolve. Saturn is Lord of Karma, and shows us what limitations we must overcome, and how to transcend boundaries of what has been possible so far. This is the planet of karmic wisdom and shows you the lessons to be learned in this lifetime.

A 5h Saturn in Aries is indicating a karmic responsibility, and this becomes more apparent in later life. Blocks center around self assertion and loss of self confidence. There may be feelings of inadequacy. There is a block on creativity, which will be released when you can value yourself and what you create. And when you can create in a confident and competent way. All of this echoes the themes of your nodal axis. When the natal chart repeats the same message over and over, it is important to pay attention.


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Originally Posted by Waki View Post
guess so. But things are still unclear, elusive. (Neptune on IC...)
Neptune in Pisces is giving humanity a huge dose of spirituality. That is why more people are now interested in the Nodes and soul purpose. And why levels of escapism seem so high, the opioid epidemic, the strong interest in extreme irrational politics ,etc. Rigid, dogmatic, man made religions are being shown for what they really are, and people are embracing spirituality, not religion.

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thanks again.
Glad to help.
PS Pay attention to your Chiron Return.

Julia
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  #16  
Unread 08-19-2016, 04:31 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Juloa your words are fantastic.

I don't have the material conditions to create arts the way my potential could allow, but just with the most basic 'paint' software, i did a small piece today, and i am dedicating it to you.

Quote:
If you look at the positive and negative traits of your Venus, you may have a clue as to how she is creating tension on your nodal axis.
Frankly, I don't know much about my Venus.
I had a BIG wake up call about her existence when Pluto first transited on her 2 years ago (Pluto is right back on her now again, but then Uranus was also squaring her), but it was then more about discovering the need for self-love, ---and also about sexual desire obsession, because of a f!!^*#!!g astrologer who took advantage of the situation with full awareness of the transit and of our powerful Mars/Venus synastry while i did not know. This however led me to intense study of astrology, and the crucial self-love adventure, with a lot to do still 2 years later (but I am on the right track and keep working)

it's very diffictul to understand her.
She is not the usual romantic Venus, nor indulging in material comfort, she is more ascetic. Possibly very repressed. I am not interested in investing in love affairs but most astrological hints one gets about Venus are about that only. Now I think, when it comes to being creative, ascetism in not really the virtue that makes the more sense... So she remains a puzzle. I have been digging a lot but found out nothing that helps me understand her. The only valuable thing is this issue of self-esteem, self-love, self-acceptance. it is a wonderful gift and there is no way for me to go ahead without paying close attention to this, but as a wider project related to arts, creativity or vocation, I am clueless.

By the way I just guided a group meditation, and because the students were subtly beating themselves for not being as great as they wish to be, i took time to discuss about this self-acceptance issue, from a very experiencial perspective on top of sharing all the data than I have lately gathered on how this is related to meditation. They said it was very important and were grateful. (Did you you know that traditional Buddhism knows nothing about lowself esteem?)

Back to artistic Venus, the only hint I gathered if that the art best skill could be about structure (becaus of Saturn). And it's true that when it comes to photography or plastic arts, I am very good and sharp on structure, proportions, order. So at least now I am aware that this is something I could explore more. But when it comes to actual artistic creation, there is a whole path of practice ahead, it's not the immediate bingo.

(ho ho ho, Saturn again interfering?)

Quote:
If you look at the positive and negative traits of your Venus, you may have a clue as to how she is creating tension on your nodal axis.
I dont feel the tension, I feel she is just pulling me towards the Libra 11 house. I have been a secret people pleaser somehow. I love to make people happy, to find the way to get everybody on the same page. It was one of my job once.

Now back to art and this issue. I remember nearly 20 years ago, I was practicing contemproray danse quite intensively but as a hobby (whic i loved bit dropped in the name of...Saturn). One day at a workshop, my danse partner, who was a professional danser and teacher and one of my teacher in another danse class, had to observe me during a group impro and offer feed-back. She said I had great moment when i was really giving the whoel group impro an intensitity and could lead, but would never sustain what i was doing and would drop to adjust instead to others.

Too bad I gave up danse. I could have explored more of that. But uranus was then transiting my Aq Sun and I made a huge turn and went into something more spritual and... ascetic.

Quote:
Saturn is a gift in that he is the way shower, and our Master Teacher. He points out the path of duty and destiny. The planets are gifts to us, to help us on our journey. They are not sent to punish us, but to teach us.
I trust you. I just don't see how he can help me release the intuition, the sensitivity, the spontaneity that I associate with artistic creation.
Is there another way?
Mm maybe. The hard work repeating again and again the same thing. That's not appealing to my Uranus leaning, but I now sense soemthing. Thinking about taichi, where repeating again and again, with full awareness of the body, is a great discipline I love, that might related to Capricorn Venus.
But that is not creative...
self-creative though?

Quote:
Do not be afraid of Saturn.
by nature I am not afraid of saturn. I am a true Aquarian . My Aq Sun makes no major aspect to anything and I suspect that explains my big respect for many Saturnian values, like seeking long lasting value and my profound dislike of selfishness and unablity to harm others deliberately (strong Pisces may help there too). But my late studies of astrology has shown to me that he has so far been repressive for Venus and Aries NN.

Also, I don;t know what that may inicate, but if i look at fixed stars, there are a bunch of nice stars towards the SN, and a few stars towards the NN and those latter are harsh!!! Integrating the NN seems from that perspective to call for even more renunciation.

Quote:
A 5h Saturn in Aries is indicating a karmic responsibility, and this becomes more apparent in later life.
What sort of karic responsaibility? I am lost.

Quote:
Blocks center around self assertion and loss of self confidence. There may be feelings of inadequacy. There is a block on creativity, which will be released when you can value yourself and what you create. And when you can create in a confident and competent way.
This seem to make perfect sense as a reflction of my life, where I am now.

Quote:
All of this echoes the themes of your nodal axis. When the natal chart repeats the same message over and over, it is important to pay attention.
I am trying to pay attention!!!
I am not too bad now at understanding the situation (save my Venus faces) and for this I can thank my Mercury nd mutable planets and points that are all over the place.

Taking action is far far more difficult... I guess I should take it all less seriously...

Quote:
Saturn is a gift in that he is the way shower, and our Master Teacher. He points out the path of duty and destiny.
I have taken many spiritual committments....
by the way I also have a wonderful great spiritual teacher who happens to have his Saturn right on my Sun (and an impressive number of exact conjunctions with my chart. Definitely very karmic)

Quote:
Rigid, dogmatic, man made religions are being shown for what they really are, and people are embracing spirituality, not religion.
My spiritual teacher is always calling us to more awareness of that fact, and yet... I have still been falling into the trap.

I believe and would say religions without spirituality are very toxic poison, but sprituality without form, and possiby even formalities, is empty air. Cosy and spacious, but you can't climb on anything solid and grow...

This is all very tricky. These times on earth are very tricky.

Oh may I find a Saturnian way of injecting fun into it!

with gratitude.

(It seems I cannot insert an image of the visual I created today!)
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  #17  
Unread 08-19-2016, 04:52 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

For Julia

A tree for Julia.jpg
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  #18  
Unread 08-19-2016, 05:08 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

it's for you because I was following your suggstion, to make it
"easy, no big stakes, no big fuss, just fun".
And I thought of the Saturnian ability for structure, and that is the result.
Hope you like it. You crossed my thoughts as i did it and I thought I should give it to you. I hope you like it. oh, well, let's take it easy!
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  #19  
Unread 08-19-2016, 06:56 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Juloa your words are fantastic.
I don't have the material conditions to create arts the way my potential could allow, but just with the most basic 'paint' software, i did a small piece today, and i am dedicating it to you.
I believe the material restrictions may lead to an increase in creativity and and uniqueness.
(Saturn wide conjunct to your NN). So do not let the restrictions deter you, but see it as part of the process.

Wow, I never had a work of art dedicated to me. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post

I don't know much about my Venus.
I had a BIG wake up call about her existence when Pluto first transited on her 2 years ago (Pluto is right back on her now again, but then Uranus was also squaring her), but it was then more about discovering the need for self-love, ---and also about sexual desire obsession, because of a f!!^*#!!g astrologer who took advantage of the situation with full awareness of the transit and of our powerful Mars/Venus synastry while i did not know. This however led me to intense study of astrology, and the crucial self-love adventure, with a lot to do still 2 years later (but I am on the right track and keep working)
Sometimes we have a dark night of the soul prior to making breakthroughs and enlightenment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
It’s very diffictul to understand her.
She is not the usual romantic Venus, nor indulging in material comfort, she is more ascetic. Possibly very repressed. I am not interested in investing in love affairs but most astrological hints one gets about Venus are about that only. Now I think, when it comes to being creative, ascetism in not really the virtue that makes the more sense... So she remains a puzzle. I have been digging a lot but found out nothing that helps me understand her. The only valuable thing is this issue of self-esteem, self-love, self-acceptance. it is a wonderful gift and there is no way for me to go ahead without paying close attention to this, but as a wider project related to arts, creativity or vocation, I am clueless.
In general Venus square the nodes would represent being pushed and pulled with issues around love, sexuality, harmony, connectedness, intimacy, beauty, etc. Venus also represents emotional satisfaction, which is one of your stated goals. And represents what you value.
Venus in Cap in terms of art, might represent art with some complexity, cool on the surface, but some intensity underneath. There might be a need for respectability, societal acceptance, and you would like your art to perhaps be some sort of status symbol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
By the way I just guided a group meditation, and because the students were subtly beating themselves for not being as great as they wish to be, i took time to discuss about this self-acceptance issue, from a very experiencial perspective on top of sharing all the data than I have lately gathered on how this is related to meditation. They said it was very important and were grateful. (Did you you know that traditional Buddhism knows nothing about lowself esteem?)
Very good on teaching mediation to students. I have conducted such classes myself for many years. It is a much needed life skill for people to be able to calm and center themselves.

In all fairness, self esteem is a fairly new concept. Most of human existence to this point has been about survival, and feeling good about one’s self didn’t seem all that important when trying to put food on the table and live to see the next day. Since the 1960’s feeling good about one self, having self esteem, etc has become important. We may have gone a bit too far, as research is showing more and more narcissism in college students. Real self esteem is based on actual accomplishment. So I encourage people to set realistic, doable goals, and then give it their best shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Back to artistic Venus, the only hint I gathered if that the art best skill could be about structure (becaus of Saturn). And it's true that when it comes to photography or plastic arts, I am very good and sharp on structure, proportions, order. So at least now I am aware that this is something I could explore more. But when it comes to actual artistic creation, there is a whole path of practice ahead, it's not the immediate bingo.
(ho ho ho, Saturn again interfering?)
Again, he is not interfering. He is providing determination, focus, structure. And yes I see your art as most likely an incremental, step wise, structured kind of project.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
dont feel the tension, I feel she is just pulling me towards the Libra 11 house. I have been a secret people pleaser somehow. I love to make people happy, to find the way to get everybody on the same page. It was one of my job once.
Now back to art and this issue. I remember nearly 20 years ago, I was practicing contemproray danse quite intensively but as a hobby (whic i loved bit dropped in the name of...Saturn). One day at a workshop, my danse partner, who was a professional danser and teacher and one of my teacher in another danse class, had to observe me during a group impro and offer feed-back. She said I had great moment when i was really giving the whoel group impro an intensitity and could lead, but would never sustain what i was doing and would drop to adjust instead to others. Too bad I gave up danse. I could have explored more of that. But uranus was then transiting my Aq Sun and I made a huge turn and went into something more spritual and... ascetic.
Yes you do keep going back to your South Node…. time to be more in your NN.
Perhaps some individual dance to get you in touch with you, and to release your creativity. ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
I trust you. I just don't see how he can help me release the intuition, the sensitivity, the spontaneity that I associate with artistic creation.
Is there another way?
Mm maybe. The hard work repeating again and again the same thing. That's not appealing to my Uranus leaning, but I now sense soemthing. Thinking about taichi, where repeating again and again, with full awareness of the body, is a great discipline I love, that might related to Capricorn Venus.
But that is not creative... self-creative though?
I think the dancing or tai chi would be great to help get you into your body, and not obsessing so much in your head, and release creative energy.

I think the way forward is to proceed with some of the fun art projects and see how it goes.
This may lead to bigger things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
by nature I am not afraid of saturn. I am a true Aquarian . My Aq Sun makes no major aspect to anything and I suspect that explains my big respect for many Saturnian values, like seeking long lasting value and my profound dislike of selfishness and unablity to harm others deliberately (strong Pisces may help there too). But my late studies of astrology has shown to me that he has so far been repressive for Venus and Aries NN.

Also, I don;t know what that may inicate, but if i look at fixed stars, there are a bunch of nice stars towards the SN, and a few stars towards the NN and those latter are harsh!!! Integrating the NN seems from that perspective to call for even more renunciation.

What sort of karic responsaibility? I am lost.
This will be revealed to you later in life. So do not worry about it for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
seem to make perfect sense as a reflction of my life, where I am now.

I am trying to pay attention!!!
I am not too bad now at understanding the situation (save my Venus faces) and for this I can thank my Mercury nd mutable planets and points that are all over the place.

Taking action is far far more difficult... I guess I should take it all less seriously…
I think you are making it harder than it needs to be.
Take it easy and have some fun.
Look for something you love and have a passion for.
Then what you produce will be of value.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
have taken many spiritual committments....
by the way I also have a wonderful great spiritual teacher who happens to have his Saturn right on my Sun (and an impressive number of exact conjunctions with my chart. Definitely very karmic)
Yes this person is a master teacher in this life for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
spiritual teacher is always calling us to more awareness of that fact, and yet... I have still been falling into the trap.

I believe and would say religions without spirituality are very toxic poison, but sprituality without form, and possiby even formalities, is empty air. Cosy and spacious, but you can't climb on anything solid and grow...
Yes I agree 100%.

This is all very tricky. These times on earth are very tricky.

Oh may I find a Saturnian way of injecting fun into it!

with gratitude.

(It seems I cannot insert an image of the visual I created today!) [/QUOTE]
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  #20  
Unread 08-19-2016, 06:58 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Waki:

Oh wow, it is so beautiful.
Thank you very much.
I am touched.

Julia
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  #21  
Unread 08-20-2016, 12:16 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Hi Julia,

Thank you so much again for sharing your thoughts. They have very valuable insight or perpectives again.

Regarding the self-esteem issue, which is important to me, you are right, it's more about lessening the negative effect of self-critic, and counteracting self-judgment, self-loathing, self-hatred.

Quote:
Since the 1960’s feeling good about one self, having self esteem, etc has become important. We may have gone a bit too far, as research is showing more and more narcissism in college students. Real self esteem is based on actual accomplishment. So I encourage people to set realistic, doable goals, and then give it their best shot.
Since you seem to be interested in the subject, I dare sharing more, and hope you find it intersting.
There is a wonderful meditator and acadmic scholar around, Kristin Neff, PhD who also points to some of what you are saying (she has a wonderful website I would recommend, and nice TEDx talk too). She says like you, that rising self-esteem to get a positive image for kids and students with stuff like 'I am important, I am special, I am above average' can indeed have the wrong effect of making people mean, self-focused and entitled, as happened with the self-esteem movement of 1970s, 1980s and even 1990s in schools and therapies. This backfired, she says, like you.
Now to counteract the inner critic and self-judgement, she is advocating self-love as being not so much about "judging oneself positively", but rather “relating to oneself kindly" –it’s about compassion. The question we much ask is: do I relate to myself kindly or not?

For that, among other things, developing mindfulness is extremely useful, because the unconscious mind --the one carrying the deep wounds-- is often driving the bus without our awareness...

With my Mars and Chiron in the 4th House, both receving (or sending) exact opposition to/from Pluto and Uranus, I know all this applies! How unkind I have been to myslef!

Neptune conj. As from the 12th, and Pluto sextile As could add self undoing!

Quote:
In all fairness, self esteem is a fairly new concept. Most of human existence to this point has been about survival, and feeling good about one’s self didn’t seem all that important when trying to put food on the table and live to see the next day.
May I disagree? Buddhist teachings (my favorite!) are far beyond survival. Meditators were concerned with their own mind, and going into very subtle stuff. Yet the traditional Buddhist teachings don't have any clues about self-hatred and low self-esteem, for reasons which are probably no the ones you point to. I believe the modern ways we are and have been raising babies has been very... well... unkind to them, precisely. Most of my US friends were not breastfed at all because "it's dirty". Too many babies have to spend most of there early life alone, isolated, away from the body of their mothers, in a separate bed and in a separate room. A separate room! When you are 1 month or 1 year old, you are basically, biologically and neurologically a little mammal, not a thinker who can absorve abstract notions about individuation. Mammal, the words means it all, it's about mom. I have lived in several 'underdevelopped' countries where food is scarce and survival an everyday issue, and people don't have that deep undercurrent of negative self-judgment most modern westerns suffer from. They have a deep inner relaxation we don't have. Modern brain science elucidates it very well. Our primitive, unconscious mind we have to live with all our life long is based on brain wiring that occurs in the first year of development.
Simple !

I have no idea how this translates astrologogically beyong my own chart! But I do see it there, with the 4th house and the Saturn square. Also the Gemini moon trine Uranus does not make her the most tender mammal

Quote:
I see your art as most likely an incremental, step wise, structured kind of project.
Quote:
the way forward is to proceed with some of the fun art projects
For now rather inexistant art projects, unless it's all about my self as a self-creation. Otherwise, there's mainly a lot of mystery ahead!

I am still on a Mercurial track (intellect, head energy), because of ancient momentum, but really, my heart is no more there and I can't put myself to that work --subtly resisting, or too exhausted. I do have the good reputation of providing that sort of service --which drains me. The thing is, Mercury seems to be a heavy planet in my chart, ruling MC and Moon (Sun as well by triplicity) and being there in H3 with H3 Sun. I wish i could use the Neptunian and Pisces energy which I have in a very constructive way , not just day dreaming or being hypersentitive and spiritual, but something, well Saturnian! Concrete, manifest, tangible, solid.

Quote:
This will be revealed to you later in life.
Ha, the mystery thickens. I am not young anymore!

Quote:
I believe the material restrictions may lead to an increase in creativity and and uniqueness. (Saturn wide conjunct to your NN). So do not let the restrictions deter you, but see it as part of the process.
That makes sense. But you can see how extremely basic and rudimentary my graphic tool is. I am on a laptop using its buildin platform "mouse" -no graphist do that, it's very gross. You think it's good enough?

Quote:
I think you are making it harder than it needs to be.
I think you are right!
But I know no other way it seems...

Quote:
Chiron return.
I am mainly aware that Chiron is about healing hidden wounds --return or not return. I am very much into healing my wounds these days (2 years). To remain with this vocational astrology theme and thread, I suppose my current confusion and wonder about my own vocation and career can only gain clarity with more healing done. Other than that, I have not being exploring what specificcally the Chiron return is about. I suppose I am doing the right thing. Anything I should pay special attention, which i missed?
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  #22  
Unread 08-20-2016, 03:26 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Hi Julia,

Thank you so much again for sharing your thoughts. They have very valuable insight or perpectives again.

Regarding the self-esteem issue, which is important to me, you are right, it's more about lessening the negative effect of self-critic, and counteracting self-judgment, self-loathing, self-hatred.
I think the Buddhists call this the monkey mind or monkey chatter?

Time to perhaps examine the reason for such negative thoughts. If the thoughts are not rational, time to counteract them with realistic positive thoughts. If there is some basis for the negative thoughts, time to make some personal changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Since you seem to be interested in the subject, I dare sharing more, and hope you find it intersting. There is a wonderful meditator and acadmic scholar around, Kristin Neff, PhD who also points to some of what you are saying (she has a wonderful website I would recommend, and nice TEDx talk too). She says like you, that rising self-esteem to get a positive image for kids and students with stuff like 'I am important, I am special, I am above average' can indeed have the wrong effect of making people mean, self-focused and entitled, as happened with the self-esteem movement of 1970s, 1980s and even 1990s in schools and therapies. This backfired, she says, like you.
Now to counteract the inner critic and self-judgement, she is advocating self-love as being not so much about "judging oneself positively", but rather “relating to oneself kindly" –it’s about compassion. The question we much ask is: do I relate to myself kindly or not?
Dr. Neff and I appear to be on the same wavelength for sure!
And yes, it is important for people who are going through a rough time to be kind and gentle with themselves. That is standard advice I give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
that, among other things, developing mindfulness is extremely useful, because the unconscious mind --the one carrying the deep wounds-- is often driving the bus without our awareness...

With my Mars and Chiron in the 4th House, both receving (or sending) exact opposition to/from Pluto and Uranus, I know all this applies! How unkind I have been to myslef!

Neptune conj. As from the 12th, and Pluto sextile As could add self undoing!
Yes you have some heavy energy associated with your karmic wounding. But keep in mind, this is also the area that is to be healed in this lifetime. Chiron gives healing potential and the planets aspected to it can be used as part of the healing process.

Most people tend to see only the negative part of the signs and planets.
However the signs and planets contain a great deal of good and positive energy.
I would encourage you to look at the good energy in the planets connected to your Chiron,
as they can assist with healing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
May I disagree? Buddhist teachings (my favorite!) are far beyond survival. Meditators were concerned with their own mind, and going into very subtle stuff. Yet the traditional Buddhist teachings don't have any clues about self-hatred and low self-esteem, for reasons which are probably no the ones you point to. I believe the modern ways we are and have been raising babies has been very... well... unkind to them, precisely. Most of my US friends were not breastfed at all because "it's dirty". Too many babies have to spend most of there early life alone, isolated, away from the body of their mothers, in a separate bed and in a separate room. A separate room! When you are 1 month or 1 year old, you are basically, biologically and neurologically a little mammal, not a thinker who can absorve abstract notions about individuation. Mammal, the words means it all, it's about mom. I have lived in several 'underdevelopped' countries where food is scarce and survival an everyday issue, and people don't have that deep undercurrent of negative self-judgment most modern westerns suffer from. They have a deep inner relaxation we don't have. Modern brain science elucidates it very well. Our primitive, unconscious mind we have to live with all our life long is based on brain wiring that occurs in the first year of development.
Simple !
Of course you may disagree, and your point is well taken.
I was speaking more about the western tradition but certainly the eastern philosophies have been much more enlightened. And also your point is good about the higher self esteem of those raised in third world counties. Perhaps low self esteem and self negativity is a product of modern culture. The more we have, the worse we feel about ourselves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
I have no idea how this translates astrologogically beyong my own chart! But I do see it there, with the 4th house and the Saturn square. Also the Gemini moon trine Uranus does not make her the most tender mammal
BTW with a 7h moon it looks like your mother was a partner in a past life, or a current partner will have been a parent figure in a past life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
For now rather inexistant art projects, unless it's all about my self as a self-creation. Otherwise, there's mainly a lot of mystery ahead!
You just created one piece of art, so your art projects do exist.
And yes, humans are always a work in progress. Our most fundamental creative project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
I am still on a Mercurial track (intellect, head energy), because of ancient momentum, but really, my heart is no more there and I can't put myself to that work --subtly resisting, or too exhausted. I do have the good reputation of providing that sort of service --which drains me. The thing is, Mercury seems to be a heavy planet in my chart, ruling MC and Moon (Sun as well by triplicity) and being there in H3 with H3 Sun. I wish i could use the Neptunian and Pisces energy which I have in a very constructive way , not just day dreaming or being hypersentitive and spiritual, but something, well Saturnian! Concrete, manifest, tangible, solid.
I have a very strong Mercury and Pisces imprint on my chart. Mercury is my chart ruler, and sits in the middle of my 6h Pisces Stellium. I think it is an excellent combination, both right and left brained. Logical but spiritual and intuitive. I would encourage you to tap into your Pisces energy that is sitting there in your chart, to be used along with the Mercury energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
That makes sense. But you can see how extremely basic and rudimentary my graphic tool is. I am on a laptop using its buildin platform "mouse" -no graphist do that, it's very gross. You think it's good enough?
Yes I think it is good enough.
To my untrained eye, it does not look basic to me.
I could certainly never produce what you produced.
I think you probably want to start simple, not overwhelm yourself.
On any project, we have to start somewhere, and with the resources available to us.
Your basic software is a good place to begin.
The other thing, stay open to other opportunities which may appear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
I think you are right!
But I know no other way it seems...
I am mainly aware that Chiron is about healing hidden wounds --return or not return. I am very much into healing my wounds these days (2 years). To remain with this vocational astrology theme and thread, I suppose my current confusion and wonder about my own vocation and career can only gain clarity with more healing done. Other than that, I have not being exploring what specificcally the Chiron return is about. I suppose I am doing the right thing. Anything I should pay special attention, which i missed?
A Chiron Return can trigger a crisis in meaning, and bring out the karmic wounding for the purpose of healing and integration. It is time we begin to move into another dimension, expanding our consciousness. Higher level chakras are activated and opened up. This is a time when heart, mind, spirit are united, and creative living is enabled.

A 4th house Chiron Return is about dealing with parenting issues or inner, psychological issues.

Julia
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  #23  
Unread 08-20-2016, 06:25 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
I think the Buddhists call this the monkey mind or monkey chatter?
Yep! But the monkey mind is not just the inner self critic or negative thinking about oneself, it is also about others, and includes all the good and the bad, and anything, and everything. Any inner chatter including daydreaming about the most pleasurable things! The monkey mind is basically our usual ordinary mind whenever we are not perfectly focused or.... sleepy . It's a huge monkey all over! However... it does not really include deep unconscious thougths, which sometimes are also inner critics. Hidding deep, coming from very early life experiences. These require refined tracking.

Quote:
If the thoughts are not rational, time to counteract them with realistic positive thoughts.
Julia, research including neuro psychology suggests that if they are not rational, it may also be that they come from past wounds that have nothing to do with the present situation. And they may come from very deep subconsious levels, early events not avalaible to our explicit memory. So tracking down these things and their sources is a journey in itself. Just applying positive thoughts like a balm on the wound does not work, in many cases. Or it doesn't last. I have explored various modalities of hypnotherapy and I can say one has to track the source or else it's too superficial a work. ( I just noticed this is one of you cups of tea!!!)

Quote:
it is important for people who are going through a rough time to be kind and gentle with themselves.
Possibly it is important for anyone to be kind to themselves at anytime. Beating oneself up is never healthy, even when we are doing the wrong things and need to change. See Dr. Neff tedx! The carrot works way much better than the stick in the long term, always.

Quote:
Perhaps low self esteem and self negativity is a product of modern culture. The more we have, the worse we feel about ourselves?
Why would we feel bad if we feel full?
No way... Unless very unhealthy guilt is at play...

In fact, this modern non-culture wants us to be consumers, buying new stuff and new services all the time, endlessly, even during our sleep if we could. Marketing efforts represent millions of billions $ spent every year just to convince us in all sorts of ways including subliminal that we are not good enough, something is missing --whatever, the latest iphone, smarter snack, super food supplement, eyebrows trimming, special holidays pack, whatever, crazy stuff we actually don't need.... So we hardly get the message "you are good as you are, you don't need to change anything or buy anything, just relax and enjoy being, all is perfectly well". This system is feeding greed and a chronic and growing sense of worthlessness. Plus, it's a very competitive world. So we can never feel good enough, content. You see? It's a very painful world, even though we are full of stuff. Owning is not the new source of pain, though.

As far as I and others have researched it, the way we treat infants is the fondamental wound of worthlessness, and then the social and cultural 360 degrees pressures make us all feel we are never good enough.

I can thank Saturn for teaching me this. He does not promote being too much crazy, when you know how to use his grounding energy.

Quote:
You just created one piece of art, so your art projects do exist.
How do you move from one piece (or a few pieces) to a project!??

Quote:
I have a very strong Mercury and Pisces imprint on my chart. Mercury is my chart ruler, and sits in the middle of my 6h Pisces Stellium. I think it is an excellent combination, both right and left brained. Logical but spiritual and intuitive.
Nice stellium indeed, I just found out from the thread about Mercury in Pisces! Your Mercury is quite strong, angular (near DC, right?), at the main corner of a Grand Trine. He is the exact midpoint between your Sun and Moon, so possibly in a state of balance. It's ruler Jupiter has some dignity by triplicity in Aries too. My Mercury is cadent, retrograde, and Jupiter its ruler is in a very poor condition too. Plus their main aspect in a T-square, a Grand Sqaure. No trine or sextile around. It's not as easy a situation! And not nicely balanced...

Quote:
I think it is an excellent combination, both right and left brained. Logical but spiritual and intuitive. I would encourage you to tap into your Pisces energy that is sitting there in your chart, to be used along with the Mercury energy.
yes, spiritual and logical both, is really great!
In my case I feel this strong mutable energy is a bit too much (with the Mutable t-square) and currently T Neptune is pulling and dissoving my energy when it comes to taking action and doing something out there. I guess for you, Neptune is activating the Grand Trine, so it's much more pleasant and easy, and the 6th house should be a good house for getting things done! It's a vocational house after all...

Quote:
I think you probably want to start simple, not overwhelm yourself.
Again, this is one of the most valuable advice you have offered. Thanks !

Quote:
A Chiron Return can trigger a crisis in meaning, and bring out the karmic wounding for the purpose of healing and integration. It is time we begin to move into another dimension, expanding our consciousness. Higher level chakras are activated and opened up. ... A 4th house Chiron Return is about dealing with parenting issues or inner, psychological issues.
I certainly need to improve my heart chakra, but otherwise those in bad shape are the lower onex, Base and 2nd. The higher ones are quite ok! Yes, it's back to parenting. My childhood !
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  #24  
Unread 08-21-2016, 01:21 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Julia, research including neuro psychology suggests that if they are not rational, it may also be that they come from past wounds that have nothing to do with the present situation. And they may come from very deep subconsious levels, early events not avalaible to our explicit memory. So tracking down these things and their sources is a journey in itself. Just applying positive thoughts like a balm on the wound does not work, in many cases. Or it doesn't last. I have explored various modalities of hypnotherapy and I can say one has to track the source or else it's too superficial a work. ( I just noticed this is one of you cups of tea!!!)
Thank you Waki for the clarification about monkey chatter.
And yes, when feelings don’t match an event, it is likely the source is some past event.
And yes, the memory may be pre-verbal, having occurred at such a young age, there is no conscious memory.

And in karmic astrology, we believe past life events can cause these deep unconscious emotions and patterns. And yes, sometimes we have to go to the source of the pain to cure it.

Yes I am licensed hypnotherapy practitioner. Hypnotherapy should be used carefully and with a good understanding of its pros and cons. I use it to help people with learning meditation, learning relaxation techniques, and past life regressions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
it is important for anyone to be kind to themselves at anytime. Beating oneself up is never healthy, even when we are doing the wrong things and need to change. See Dr. Neff tedx! The carrot works way much better than the stick in the long term, always.
Yes I agree. We need to own our mistakes and take responsibility for our actions.
But I think we can do so in a way that is not damaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
Why would we feel bad if we feel full?
No way... Unless very unhealthy guilt is at play…
That is a great quote: why would we feel bad if we feel full.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
fact, this modern non-culture wants us to be consumers, buying new stuff and new services all the time, endlessly, even during our sleep if we could. Marketing efforts represent millions of billions $ spent every year just to convince us in all sorts of ways including subliminal that we are not good enough, something is missing --whatever, the latest iphone, smarter snack, super food supplement, eyebrows trimming, special holidays pack, whatever, crazy stuff we actually don't need.... So we hardly get the message "you are good as you are, you don't need to change anything or buy anything, just relax and enjoy being, all is perfectly well". This system is feeding greed and a chronic and growing sense of worthlessness. Plus, it's a very competitive world. So we can never feel good enough, content. You see? It's a very painful world, even though we are full of stuff. Owning is not the new source of pain, though.
I agree totally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
As far as I and others have researched it, the way we treat infants is the fondamental wound of worthlessness, and then the social and cultural 360 degrees pressures make us all feel we are never good enough.

I can thank Saturn for teaching me this. He does not promote being too much crazy, when you know how to use his grounding energy.
I am glad you are seeing Saturn in a more positive light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
How do you move from one piece (or a few pieces) to a project!??
Once you have completed one or two pieces of art, you are in the beginning stage of the project. Thinking and planning also constitutes work on a project.

This is a good example of how you underestimate what you are doing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
stellium indeed, I just found out from the thread about Mercury in Pisces! Your Mercury is quite strong, angular (near DC, right?), at the main corner of a Grand Trine. He is the exact midpoint between your Sun and Moon, so possibly in a state of balance. It's ruler Jupiter has some dignity by triplicity in Aries too. My Mercury is cadent, retrograde, and Jupiter its ruler is in a very poor condition too. Plus their main aspect in a T-square, a Grand Sqaure. No trine or sextile around. It's not as easy a situation! And not nicely balanced...
Thank you for the feedback on my Mercury in Pisces. Karmic astrology is more qualitative and basic, rather than quantitative. So I was wondering what some of the more traditional astrologers would say about my Mercury placement. Yes my Mercury has always felt strong but can be overwhelmed by my feelings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
yes, spiritual and logical both, is really great!
In my case I feel this strong mutable energy is a bit too much (with the Mutable t-square) and currently T Neptune is pulling and dissoving my energy when it comes to taking action and doing something out there. I guess for you, Neptune is activating the Grand Trine, so it's much more pleasant and easy, and the 6th house should be a good house for getting things done! It's a vocational house after all...


Again, this is one of the most valuable advice you have offered. Thanks !
T Neptune has kicked up a lot of dust in my natal chart, not easy by any means. But every day I get up and put one foot in front of the other, and hope to do the right thing.

Keep in mind that Neptune has a good side. Spirituality, intuition, visionary, inspiration, enlightenment. Neptune can dissolve boundaries that hold us back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waki View Post
certainly need to improve my heart chakra, but otherwise those in bad shape are the lower onex, Base and 2nd. The higher ones are quite ok! Yes, it's back to parenting. My childhood !
It would be good if you could get all your chakras balanced.
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  #25  
Unread 08-24-2016, 03:03 PM
Waki Waki is offline
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Re: Vocational Crossroad --lots of potential, little stamina

For anyone interested in a curious vocational case such as mine, presented quite at length above, I just found out that Lilly, the traditional grand master of Astrology from 16 th or 17th century in Britain, had his own authoritative views... that seem to explain very precisely my experience/case.

His views are based both on classical astrology and his own experience. Below is an abstract (emphasis in bold added by me), after which I resume the study of my itchy case.

Quote:
William Lilly, Christian Astrology, Book Three, Chapter CXLVIII

Of the Magistery, Exercitation or Profession of the Native.

Astrologers name the Magistry of the Native, a Study or Delight, an Art or Action wherein anyone leads his Life, gets his Living, preserves his Estimation, and wherein he spends the principal part of his Life, whether it be public (...). Or whether his Profession be private, either learned from another, or attained by his own industry, or mechanical, laborious, and for pleasure; for doubtless every man has inclination more or less to some one Quality, Profession, &c.[et cetera] or another.

Three things considered in this Judgment.

First, Whether the Native is to have any Magistery at all, viz. any Trade, Study or Profession; or whether he shall be without any.

Secondly, the kinds of his Art or Study, what it may be.

Thirdly, what fortune he shall have therein, and whether he shall prove famous therein yea or no.


The Significators are taken in this manner.

[1.] You are to consider Mars, Venus, and Mercury (...) If then any of these is posited in places of Heaven fit to design Magistery, that is, in the tenth, first or seventh, in their own Dignities, not combust, or under the Sun's beams, that Planet so posited, or those Planets, shall have signification of the Art, Profession or Magistery the Native is inclined to.

[2.] If no one of those Planets is so posited, consider if any of the three be Lord of the Sign of mid-heaven, and placed in his essential Dignity; for if he be Peregrine or in his Fall, he is not capable to undergo this signification.

[3.] If this consideration takes not place, see (...).

[4.] If none of three before named Planets behold the Moon, see which of them aspects the Moon, (...)

[5.] If none of these considerations will hold, take him of the three Planets who according to the first mover [diurnal motion] antecedes [=precedes] the Sun, and give to him dominion of the Profession.

You must observe, if none of these three Planets shall signify the quality of the Native's Profession, according to the first or second rule, but according to the third, fourth, or fifth; such usually handle some ignoble Profession, and manage it negligently, or else lead their life without any Magistery or Art at all.

I have ever gathered much knowledge concerning the Trade of any that came to me, from the Sign of the tenth, from the Sign and house wherein the Lord of the tenth was placed.

Ptolemy's judgment was, that the Lord of one's Profession was to be taken two ways; from the Sun, and from the Sign of the mid-heaven, and advises to consider that Planet who rises next before the Sun in the Morning, and the Lord of mid-heaven, or Planet therein, if he behold the Moon; and if it chance that one Planet does not only rise next before the Sun, but shall also be Lord of the tenth, or posited in the tenth, this Planet shall be Master or Significator of the Actions and Arts of the Native: if one Planet perform not both these works, take him that does the one.
So according to Lilly, my H3 Mercury, who is both the lord of my Virgoan MC with its 3 Virgoan planets, and of my H7 Gemini Moon, etc. cannot be a functionnal significator of my vocation, because it has no single dignity in 2 pisces and has too many debilites.

Since the transaturnian planets in H10 (Pluto and Uranus) are not singificators in traditional astrology (plus, they are in close opposition to Mars, on of these opposition being the tightest aspect of my whole chart), they cannot help me discern the vocational area where I could meet success and fulfilment. My experience with them is that they may require a great deal of self-mastery (the Pluto/Mars opposition is really intense and running deep), which hopefully I will achieve, but meanwhile they are also disurpting the MC.

I do have a planet rising before the Sun, it's Venus in H2 at 15Cap. She is squared by Saturn. Notheless, she is the only one tht fits Lilly or Ptolemy view --and she happens to have some minor dignity where she stands, without being in fall or detriment.

However, Lilly warns that such kind of significator is of lower quality and indicates I would "usually handle some ignoble Profession, and manage it negligently, or else lead their life without any Magistery or Art at all."

Well, this all sounds bad but yet explains my situation very well. No ignoble profession, thank God, but as I said I am unable to manage properly my Mercurial activites, because they drain me, frustrate me and I am losing interest. You may call that 'negligence'.

It's quite clear, from Lilly, that turning to a more creative Venusian activity could be much better, since Venus would nor be a first class significator but the last of the last --and there again, "ignoble Porfessiomn, negligence...etc. would be my lot. It seems however that from a Ptolemy perspective, it could work. somehow, though she lack the connection to MC which he stressed.

Well she does have a tight trine to the MC, but has ZERO dignity again in term of ruling the MC.

I think maybe Julia is right, though she did not formulate it that way : "forget about having a profession or magistery" and instead, turn to your soul destiny and try to fulfil it." --follow the Lunar Nodes.

Hopefully, given that venus is in H2, I am supposed to never starve to death, even without any profession.

What is interesting too, is that my Nodal axis is Libra-->Aries, making Venus and Mars important. and H11-->H5, and in H5 matters, Venus is important.
Now my Mars is angular and has dignities by Term and triplicity. What prevents it form being a significator of Profession is that its in the H4 --and Lilly mentions all angles but IC as significant.

BUT, again, Mars is in exact opposition to Pluto Rx in H10, 8 degrees from MC. So, I would say, there might be a way for me to get a profession or "Magistery" (yep, and with big M? ) when this opposition is well handled and mastered. Mars-Pluto, by the way are the two co-rulers of my Scorpio ASc. So one would expect a very meaningful vocation, personnaly.

BUT, Neptune is sitting there, on the rising point, and he is great, but fishy, ya know?

So I may get one day a great and fulfilling Neptune/Pluto/Uranus profession, but that will be when all these heavy planets will play right and smooth, and for now, ahem it seems they are only teaching me their heavy lessons... Interesting lessons, but this is certainly not propelling me anywhere in terms of being outgoing, the MC type.

Well, Pluto and Uranus are Rx for life, and Neptune was extremely slow on the day of my birth, about to turn stationnary on the same degree... Neptune by progression stays actually on the very same degree (26Sco) for all my life! (until my 65th birthday, when it will at last move, in retrograde motion...)

Who ever said transpersonal planets and/or retrograde people are late bloomers?
You may well be right. At least in my case, no ealry bloom!
As for a later one, I hope you are right!
Meanwhile, wish me a very, very long and healthy life!
I amy start my main career at age 65, lol!!!
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