Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Unread 10-05-2021, 04:46 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:

Maybe. But consider the following:
If Leo is known as a beastial, solid and royal sign
then
is it not ''...stronger...''
than the changeable and mysterious Capricorn?

If you say it depends on the area
then that would apply for all astrology.
royal, bestial and solid do not equate to strong necessarily
CURRENTLY royals are figureheads
lacking real '...strength...'

bestial is independent of '....strength....'
and
'...solids...' are not necessarily '....strong...'
and so on ad infinitum
Q.E.D.

The rationale of the thread
is planetary placement in signs
Quote:

Hellenistic and Medieval astrologers alike (Valens and Lilly for example)
all view Capricorn as indicative of lean people, hunchbacks and barren
not characteristic of the previous with the exception of barren.
They both have the same angularity, but different strength
because of their qualities, associated with their imagery.
A '....lean barren hunchback...' could be '....strong....'
Quote:
Traditional astrologers consider angular houses as best
so
they also make a planet - the ruler more powerful - ''...accidentally...''.
exactly

.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Unread 10-08-2021, 05:53 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

.


Nechepso said there were 8 regions of power in the Chart.
Keywords are "...Willing..." aka ANGULAR
"....Hoping...." aka Succeedent
and
"....Receding...." aka Cadent


A PLANET will do whatever it will do

good
or
bad

IF in one of the 8 power regions

Planet's CONDITION WILL AFFECT ITS ABILITY to do whatever it will do.


.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Unread 10-14-2021, 06:39 PM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 441
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Sun in Leo > all
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Unread 10-14-2021, 10:03 PM
Osamenor's Avatar
Osamenor Osamenor is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,201
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Sun in Leo > all
Not in traditional astrology. Keep in mind that this is the traditional board. Only traditional astrology may be discussed here.

Sun in Leo has essential dignity by sign, yes, but that gives it the same weight as Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini or Virgo, Venus in Taurus or Libra, Mars in Aries or Scorpio, Jupiter in Sagittarius or Pisces, and Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius. No more and no less. Sun also has essential dignity, by sign, in Aries, Moon in Taurus, Venus in Pisces, Mars in Capricorn, Saturn in Libra, and Jupiter in Cancer, because those are their exaltation signs: an important consideration in traditional astrology.

And then we have house placement to consider. If that Sun in Leo is tucked away in a cadent house, it's not as strong as if it's in an angular house, or even a succedent house.
__________________
Private messages welcome if they're moderation-related matters or personal messages for me, but please do not send me astrological questions or chart reading requests. I only answer those on the forum, in my practice, and on my blog at https://www.thebearsnose.com/, a separate site from this one.

Want my input on your natal chart-based question? You are welcome to submit it to the Ask the Astrologer feature on my blog, provided that it follows the feature's ground rules.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Osamenor For This Useful Post:
Blaze (10-14-2021), JUPITERASC (10-15-2021)
  #55  
Unread 10-15-2021, 08:54 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post

Sun in Leo > all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

Not in traditional astrology.

Keep in mind that this is the traditional board.
Only traditional astrology may be discussed here.

Sun in Leo has essential dignity by sign, yes, but
that gives it the same weight as Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini or Virgo, Venus in Taurus or Libra,
Mars in Aries or Scorpio, Jupiter in Sagittarius or Pisces, and Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius.
No more and no less.
Sun also has essential dignity, by sign, in Aries, Moon in Taurus, Venus in Pisces, Mars in Capricorn,
Saturn in Libra, and Jupiter in Cancer, because those are their exaltation signs:
an important consideration in traditional astrology.
And then we have house placement to consider.

If that Sun in Leo is tucked away in a cadent house, it's not as strong

as if it's in an angular house, or

even a succedent house.

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The image of the Lion is masculine, diurnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, feral, royal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, fierce, running and of the north wind. It indicates action, reputation, superiors, harsh matters and quarrels. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Leo are large, distinguished, independent, reliable, just, despising flattery, haughty, irascible, daring, with fine face, smooth, small ears because the Lion rarely listens to the talk of others, higher upper part of the body, thin-set teeth, rugged, flushy, bright, imperious, stable, haters of evil, beneficent and inflated with lofty thoughts. The front is robust, but the back is weaker.

Domicile of Sun, it controls the sides, the circulatory system, the nervous system and the eyesight, especially the right eye. It causes blindness on account of the Coma Star Cluster. It is like-empowered with Aries and like-ascending with Virgo, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is summery, hot and dry for the north, and wintry, cold and moist for the south. Leo commands Libra for the north and obeys it for the south. Leo controls Italy, Gaul, Apulia, Phoenicia, Chaldaea and Orchenia. The head and Regulus are rising up to the 6th degree, the front up to the 11th, the belly up to the 18th, the back up to the 24th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Jupiter - elevation, friendships with superiors
The next 5° belong to Venus - good fortune, friendships with superiors
The next 7° belong to Saturn - magnitude, of many years, infertile
The next 6° belong to Mercury - intelligent, some are winners of games
The final 6° belong to Mars - misfortune, dangers, passionate

Head - Saturn and moderately Mars
Throat - Saturn and moderately Mercury
Regulus - Jupiter and Mars
Hip and Denebola - Saturn and Venus
Thighs - Venus and moderately Mercury


Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors.

Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximiet...00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Unread 10-21-2021, 12:23 PM
kimiko8 kimiko8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 77
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

What will a “weak” planet in a “strong” position do? Eg Mars in Cancer but conjunct the Asc (to a very strong degree) or Moon in Capricorn conj Desc?
Will they be powerfully weak? Asking out of curiosity as well as personal interest, as I have powerfully weak placements! (Lol)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kimiko8 For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-21-2021)
  #57  
Unread 10-21-2021, 10:11 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimiko8 View Post


What will a “weak” planet in a “strong” position do?
Eg Mars in Cancer but conjunct the Asc (to a very strong degree)
or Moon in Capricorn conj Desc?
Will they be powerfully weak?

Asking out of curiosity as well as personal interest, as
I have powerfully weak placements! (Lol)
These planets are POWERFULLY PLACED
but in a weakened state

i.e.

Mars is HOT and DRY and masculine
Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine
and is therefore
weakened in feminine watery Cancer
Mars is a very masculine planet
It signifies war, violence.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/planets.html


CANCER indicates water and celebrations.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121654


Moon's nature is COLD & WET and feminine
Moon is moistening

MARS heat creates disturbance and anger
and the dryness creates distinctions by which ideologies can further animosities
and keep opposites apart.
MARS' nature is to SEPARATE & SEVER

The image of the Goat-Horned One aka CAPRICORN indicates ACCUSATIONS, SEPARATIONS
but
MOON’s nature is to GATHER AND INCLUDE
clearly then
Capricorn Moon on Descendant opposing Cancer Mars
is a Moon-Mars opposition of considerable conflict

and

Angular Houses = 1,4,7,10
If a planet is in an angular Whole Sign house
then the planet is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.

thus
both Moon & Mars are strongly PLACED angularly
and therefore are able to conduct their business
and
their business is in opposition to each other!
i.e.
Mars separates and severs
Moon gathers and includes

HOWEVER

there IS reception by exaltation and domicile
because
Moon is in Mars exaltation, Capricorn
and
Mars is in Moon's Domicile, Cancer
and so

Moon and Mars
ARE "...allowing..." each other
temporary residence in each others homes
thus there IS THEORETICALLY POTENTIAL for finding ways
to separate and sever
while gathering and including
if and when possible!


Robert Schmidt project Hindsight http://www.projecthindsight.com/

.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Unread 10-21-2021, 10:15 PM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,148
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

All, I deleted a post that was not about traditional astrology. Please remember the board you are posting to before replying.

Tamara
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Unread 10-21-2021, 10:49 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

*




ANGULARITY PROVIDES STRENGTH - not Sign



__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Unread 10-26-2021, 09:14 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:


No sign is intrinsically strong or weak.
It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,)
and by its position amidst the house cusps.


Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "...weak..."
but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there
with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer,
Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation.
Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.


You get the picture.
Quote:


There is no such thing as a weak sign.

There are weak placements, but no weak signs.

Signs are neutral.
They have descriptions, sure
like human, mute, violent, bestial, fertile, barren
crooked, long ascending, and on and on,
but at the end of the day, the signs are neutral.

It's the planets both in and that rule them that bring them to life.

Quote:

Hi

There are No weak sun signs.

To say there is, it is belittling astrology.


There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.

Charts lack of hard aspects,
(especially from saturn to personal planets)
with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.

when there are tough transits, they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.
Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.

Quote:

"there is no such thing as a weak sign"
keep in mind the table of ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES








.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Unread 11-06-2021, 07:44 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:
[Deleted quote of deleted attacking post. - Moderator]

Capricorn is the only sign with a rulling entity that isn't a Planet.


SATURN rules CAPRICORN - SATURN is a PLANET


.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Unread 11-24-2021, 02:55 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 73,598
Re: Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placem

Quote:

from a whole sign perspective.
Signs do have power
as declining Pisces has little power

while angular, especially rising or culminating Pisces has a lot of power
(as the ruler is benefic and controls a good house).

you have stated that declining Pisces has little power
whereas

rising or culminating Pisces has a lot of power
thus PROVING
that it is

ANGULARITY that is STRONG
not SIGN itself



.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
placements, planets, signs, strong, weak, weakhowever

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.