Question about chart progression

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Sparks

Member
Im a little confused on this: If i take my natal chart 9/15/80 and progress it to my 29th year (Oct 14 1980 - using 1 day/yes) im wondering why the planets are so different if i were to pull the same day this year 9/15/09 ... how does the make a difference if its 29 years progression either way?? WHAT AM I MISSING :andy:???

Thanks!
Sparks

[moved to Progression forum - Moderator]
 
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Culpeper

Culpeper

Premium Member
In your progressed chart the planets have not moved far from the natal position. Although in yours the Moon will have made a complete circuit of the chart. What you look for are changes in direction of the planets, changes of sign and conjunctions and aspects made by the swift inner planets to each other and the slow outer planets.

Just as an example, lets say that Jupiter rules your natal 10th house. Then in the progressed chart Venus forms a trine aspect with Jupiter in the same degree. The aspect must be close. This may set off some event that will effect your occupation, status, or your mother in some favorable way.

The second chart of the present time is a transit chart. Cast a biwheel chart with the transiting chart around the natal chart. If Venus or any other transit planet is making an exact aspect to natal Jupiter, this will indicate when the progressed event will happen. If by chance there is no transit, you may take the initiative yourself and perhaps find a better job.

This can all seem very complicated at first, but with practice you can master the intricacies and make reliable predictions.
 
S

Sparks

Member
Ok I'm following you but what I cant get past is why don't the planets' locations match if I pull the chart up using 9/15/09 since that's 29 yrs later as opposed to 10/14/80? (29 yrs later using 1day/yr method) I would think the planets should b in the same spot in 29 yrs regardless, no??

[Feeling retarded]
Sparks
 
astrologer50

astrologer50

Banned
Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html


A progressed chart is not usually read a a stand alone. It's best to do a bi wheel via astro.com

The predictive side of astrology is called 'transits' and you can see these using an ephemeris http://www.khaldea.com/kldaephem/2000/aug2009gmt.shtml
 
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S

Sparks

Member
MMmmhhhhmmm - so i read those articles (as well as a few others here - very informative)

Now i must say as much as a newbie as i am, please note i've started doing my own studies in this field and plan to look through the recommended reading section. I just finished reading " The only astrology book you'll ever need" which when completed i recognized this as a little white lie :whistling: lolol I get the planets, houses and aspects ...

And from what i understand the progressive chart is actually SYMBOLIC of each planets' progression at a given point in time (which then will prob correlate with the native's life in some way) SO i believe i get that now ....

BUT - what is the benefit of pulling up the current chart of the day? So it seems the progressive chart helps give an idea to circumstances in a given year, but doesnt the actual alignment play a part in that too?

<i should note Virgo Sun and Sag Rising LOL in my natal> But really once i understand this, im not that anal!!

Also would someone mind pointing me towards the directions for the biwheel? I did a forum search and couldnt locate it. And maybe a good book that lays this out, lol - the one i have didnt deal too much with this and i'd rather read more than keep poking at you guys - seems it should be pretty simple! :unsure:

thanks again,
Sparks
 
T

Teb

I am confused now. What date or year would I put in to get what's happening now as far as progression. and I've read the article on progressions on cafe astrology and the all you will ever need to know book.
 
starlink

starlink

Well-known member
what is the benefit of pulling up the current chart of the day?
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the Chart of the day only shows where the planets are situated today, tomorrow, whenever. It shows the transits in the sky of those planets.
You can follow the transiting planets in connection with your birthchart chart.

Dont look at the "chart of the day" itself as something to do with you. A current chart of the day is more universal and only the heavy planets play out, not the faster ones.

So when you see that in the chart of the day, Mars is in Aquarius for instance, and in your natal chart you have also Mars in Aquarius (or any other planet for that matter), then this natal planet's energy, will get an extra boost by that transiting Mars for a couple of days. Or that transiting Mars can square one of your natal planets, or trine them. Any aspect you can think of.

Sparks, you should keep in mind that our natal chart is a picture of our inner workings. Each planet rules a certain energy in us. At birth, this is still very pure and innocent, but the more we grow, the more these energies get triggered, either positively or negatively due to what happens to us in life. So our basic expression of those energies gradually changes over the years, and that is what you can see in the progressed planets positions. When you have a Moon in Pisces at birth, which is very sensitive, picking up on everything and this Moon progresses into Aries by the age of 19 or so, then you can expect the basic shy energy of this Moon to become more outgoing and aggressive, and because the natal Moon was in fact a sweet Moon, this aggressiveness will probably not show as nasty, but more as initiative taking, another form of aggressive behavior, but more positively. This happens to all our personal planets and the outer planets when they rule our Angles, Sun or Moon.

So it seems the progressive chart helps give an idea to circumstances in a given year,
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This only affects the faster planets and actually only the Moon as that one moves one degree per month approx. through a sign. Others only move up one degree, so it would actually only be interesting to look at progressions every 5 years or so. Except for the Moon. What also is very important in progressions is the changing of planets into another sign or house. That will affect that life compartment.

Also would someone mind pointing me towards the directions for the biwheel?
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dont understand your questions. Do you want to know how to set it up?
 
S

Sparks

Member
starlink said:
dont understand your questions. Do you want to know how to set it up?
Click to expand...

Yes i saw in a post where the biwheel was mentioned best on astro.com - i assumed the directions were located there or to purchase the chart ... i have Matrix software to pull the chart (s) but i dont know about contructing the actual wheel.

<:sad: of course as i write this im wondering if the wheel was a metaphor or something, lololol and not an actual wheel?? :tongue:>

Sparks
 
S

Sparks

Member
Teb said:
I am confused now. What date or year would I put in to get what's happening now as far as progression. and I've read the article on progressions on cafe astrology and the all you will ever need to know book.
Click to expand...


Teb as far as as i see, to work with progression, i've been using the one day for a year method. So if your birthday is sept 1 1980, you would progress the chart to sept 10 1980 if you wanna look at your 10th year or sept 30 1980 to look at your 30th year of life. If your 37 years old this year, just progress 37 days after your birthday (stay in same year you were born) ... which leads me to another q ...

I've come across descrepancy here (which i dont know if it makes TONS of difference, but somewhere i read that you start with the year BEFORE you were born and others have said you count the year you were born instead of the next year for a starting point... got me??? I feel it makes more sense just do it the way i outlined above.

<wasnt that book great for beginners? i just feel it didnt get too much into progression.>

Sparks
 
starlink

starlink

Well-known member
others have said you count the year you were born instead of the next year for a starting point...
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This is the right one. Count the first year as year one.

Sparks, I only use astro.com. My Winstar programm went bust and I did not want to buy another one, so now I have an account with astrodienst.
You can get a free chart there. After setting up your natal chart, go to "extended chart selection" and there you will find drop down menu's with all the different charts you can draw based on your natal chart. You then can make a chart comparison between you and the chart of the day and you get a double wheel.(somewhere right at the top). Inside is your chart, outside chart of the day (or the other person). Now I have never done it with two rings, I just go to the drop-down and choose: natal, progressions and solar arc.
You get your chart with the other planets on the outside. Comes to the same thing.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Sparks: others have said you count the year you were born instead of the next year for a starting point...
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Starlink:This is the right one. Count the first year as year one.
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I don't want to confuse sparks even more, yet when during a count by hand the day of birth is year 0. If you want more accuracy, take the birth time GMT (U.T) and use the division of 2 hours = 1 month, and the further divisions equivalent to minutes (4 mins. time = approx 1 day). E.g. birth time 8 a.m. is equivalent of a date that, progressively, begins 4 months earlier than the date of birth; e.g September becomes May. The later the birth, the further back in months prior to birth one goes. Interesting correlations can be found regarding the day around which a progressive 'new year' begins. Mine starts the final week of October....a time of birth that recedes back to the year before I was born as year 0!!! During that week in particular years, someone forgot the date they had made with me (oooh; the rejection:smile:), I lost my father, met up with an important relationship again, had my third child followed by sterilisation, and took over a job that brought career advancement.

Computer charts do the calulations automatically. A progressed chart is made for the day the chart is computed. It takes away that 'special date' that the actual birth time can imply.

Frisiangal
 
S

Sparks

Member
Starlink - Wow thanks! i followed your directions and Frisiangal thanks for the clarification - I will use astro.com from now on! Too much to figure out for a beginner, i'd much rather focus on the charts themselves ...

So i pulled my natal and progressed chart for this year (my 29th year) and noticed something ....

The astrology signs in my natal didnt shift from the original houses .. so the sings and houses are fixed for us? I didnt realize that.

Im gonna come back when i've tried to figure this chart out a little bit (i'd much rather try and "decode it" myself (love mystery lol) but i'll want to double check here if i could!)

Im used to just viewing my natal via Matrix - verrry different!

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!:biggrin:
Sparks
 
starlink

starlink

Well-known member
Sparks, in order to see the progressed houses, and of course Asc., MC., you can just create a Progressed Chart by itself.

In the chart you did (natal chart and progressed planets on the outside) you can only see where the progressed planets are now situated in your natal chart.


Frisiangal, oh dear, you must be good with math. I am hopeless and it took me two times before I did the right hand calculation on my exams:) so I dont want to even try to calculate back to year 0 because I get lost.

E.g. birth time 8 a.m. is equivalent of a date that, progressively, begins 4 months earlier than the date of birth;
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See, I dont even understand what you mean here, terrible, I'm really hopeless. I will try to study slowly what you wrote above (Taurus with Saturn square Mercury, so you understand the "slowly":)
 
S

Sparks

Member
starlink said:
Sparks, in order to see the progressed houses, and of course Asc., MC., you can just create a Progressed Chart by itself.

In the chart you did (natal chart and progressed planets on the outside) you can only see where the progressed planets are now situated in your natal chart.
Click to expand...

:sad: Hmmm soooo - lets say i want to see how the planets are influencing me this year ... would that be the progressed chart itself?

If i wanted to see "horoscope" meaning major events, returns etc. then i would use progressed with natal? Perhaps im not seeing they are seperate? <or did i do it wrong?>

You tell me: If i wanted to see my life in this 29th year, what would i chart?

Sparks
<getting ready to bang my head against the wall :crying:>
 
starlink

starlink

Well-known member
Spark, dont bang your head. It is really not difficult. The progressed chart by itself just shows clearly how natal planets have progressed .

Lets say at birth your Natal Sun was in Aquarius at 15° (just as an example) and at age 29 you see it has progressed into 14° Pisces. In fact at age 15, it already entered Pisces.
This you can see for every planet. Only the moon is different from the others because she moves fast, 1° per month. Even so, when you draw your progressed chart on your 29th birthday, you see your Moon somewhere in a sign or house. Every 1°-1.5° it will move further per month, so in about 28 degrees it can already get into a new sign /house. All other personal planets need about a year.

You can look at a progressed planet as a new natal planet for that time in your life. Only during a few years, not much will change, because everything just moves 1 degree up.

Now this progressed chart shows you also the progressed housecusps which are not shown (exc. Asc./Desc. and MC/IC axis) when you take a natal chart and then have the progressed planets put around it.

So for me, the progressed chart only serves me to look at longterm changes. When a natal planet is at the beginning of a sign, it can take almost 30 years to get into the next. When it is at the end of a sign, you can expect it to enter a new sign maybe already at the age of 2 or 5. This will show you that part of the natal energy expression of this planet will now also get a bit of flavor of the new sign. Going from Sagittarius to Capricorn for instance, will not take away the basic Sag. optimism, but will make this person a bit more careful and serious (Capri).

I therefore use the progressed chart only to look at:
1. the progressed Moon's placement,
2. to see if some planets, by progression changed to retrograde or natal retrograde planets moved to become direct,
3. to see if they moved house, so only when just entering a new house. This will show that the natal energies which were first focussed on the house before that, will now be applied more consciously on the next house. So a natal Mars in 1 (doing things for yourself), entering the 2nd house, will make you do more things in order to make money or to boost your selfconfidence. In house 3, that Mars can become more assertive in communication. etc.
4. To see if the progressed Moon aspects any other progressed planet
5. To see if any progressed fast planet aspects another progressed slow planet

From the progressed positions around your natal ring, you can see which progressed planets make aspects to your natal angles or planets.

I also see if the progressed Angles are getting into a conjunction or other major aspect with a natal planet.

If i wanted to see my life in this 29th year, what would i chart?
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Both. Just the progressed, to see how you psychologically have grown and changed and the natal chart with the progressed positions around it to see how progr. planets are influencing your natal chart right now. And you can do a Solar Return for just this 29th year, based on the transits of the birthday.

Hope this is a bit clearer now.:)
 
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S

Sparks

Member
Yeh! Thanks! I actually poked around more last night since i had some free time <loving that im not the only one who struggles with this :whistling:>

I just want to clarify: So when we progress a chart is isnt always against the natal like the biwheel?

When we make the biwheel only the planets progress, showing their impact our natal positions?? (which usually denotes internal/psychologic/emotional changes not usually seen by others)

When we just progress our chart, using just the date we want to see NOT against the natal (but obviously using the bday as the starting point) we can then see the actual positions in the sky at the time; hence the whole chart progresses. This will show how i've changed but will not show how it aspects my personal natal?

And am i correct in thinking the word ASPECT means any mathmatical relation (square, trine, sextile etc)?

Sparks
<feeling better! :cool:>
 
starlink

starlink

Well-known member
When we just progress our chart, using just the date we want to see NOT against the natal (but obviously using the bday as the starting point) we can then see the actual positions in the sky at the time; hence the whole chart progresses. This will show how i've changed but will not show how it aspects my personal natal?
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YES, we got it!

And the aspects are indeed the conjunction, square, trine, sextile, opposition and inconjunct. Minor aspects can be used as well, notably the more common ones like the semi-sextile, semi-square, sesquiquadrate. Advanced astrologers include the Quintile and bi-quintile as well as mid-points (the exact middle between the aspects. When a progr. planet touches that point, both planets get a cick:))

So a progressed chart is separately looked at as a chart for that age in your life and because the planets move so slowly, you can understand that it is not necessary to look at the 2nd year of someone's life. I start looking at progressed after the first Saturn return, when people have learned their lessons. See if their attitude changed much.

(which usually denotes internal/psychologic/emotional changes not usually seen by others)
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Yes, you can change internally on a psychological level but this can of course also show in your actions towards the outside world. If a progr. Ascendant or Sun has progressed into Aries, the person can inwardly feel more daring, more courageous and show it outwardly in his behavior. All our psychological internal workings will ultimately influence our behavior pattern.
 
astrologer50

astrologer50

Banned
Sparks said:
Yeh! Thanks! I actually poked around more last night since i had some free time <loving that im not the only one who struggles with this :whistling:>

I just want to clarify: So when we progress a chart is isnt always against the natal like the biwheel?

When we make the biwheel only the planets progress, showing their impact our natal positions?? (which usually denotes internal/psychologic/emotional changes not usually seen by others) YOUR ASCENDANT AND MC PROGRESS TOO AND WHEN ONE OF THEM CONJUNCT A NATAL PLANET FOR EXAMPLE IT GIVES THAT PLANET 'AN AIRING' OPPORTUNITY TO BE MORE VISIBLE IF YOU LIKE

When we just progress our chart, using just the date we want to see NOT against the natal (but obviously using the bday as the starting point) we can then see the actual positions in the sky at the time; hence the whole chart progresses. This will show how i've changed but will not show how it aspects my personal natal?

And am i correct in thinking the word ASPECT means any mathmatical relation (square, trine, sextile etc)?YES

Sparks
<feeling better! :cool:>
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It's more important to see if any progressed planets ie; sun through to mars is behaving against the natal. You can read a progressed chart alone, but you gain much more information as bi wheel. When p Sun & p moon changes signs and houses and what close aspects they make to natal is really important.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
starlink said:
Frisiangal, oh dear, you must be good with math. I am hopeless and it took me two times before I did the right hand calculation on my exams:) so I dont want to even try to calculate back to year 0 because I get lost.
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Only twice?:biggrin: I had learnt hand calculation in my country using the Michelsen's midnight hour ephemeris, yet had to take U.K exam qualifications using Raphael's midday ephemeris, plus a Southern hemisphere chart!!! I was not allowed to use the midnight ephemeris. I got in terrible trouble and failed miserably. Just couldn't work it out in my head. Finally got the qualifications locally.:wink:

E.g. birth time 8 a.m. is equivalent of a date that, progressively, begins 4 months earlier than the date of birth;
Click to expand...

See, I dont even understand what you mean here, terrible, I'm really hopeless. I will try to study slowly what you wrote above (Taurus with Saturn square Mercury, so you understand the "slowly":)
Click to expand...

A year = 24 hours progressive, yes?
So, a month is 1/12th of a year = 2 hours.
1 hour = approx. 15 days,
4 mins (15x4 = 60 mins) = approx. 1 day.

Take the birth time GMT and work backwards in time for progressive date. E.g. Mine is approx 12.48.
12 hours = 6x2hrs. = 6 months,
48 mins = 12x4 mins = 12 days.

My birthday is 12 May. 6 months and 12 days back from my birthdate gives an approx. date of end October. Allowing for 28/29/31 days months, there can be a 'rounding off' of days. Mine is about 27th October. A 'new year' progressive begins around that date. Nowadays, with computers working out progression to the day, it doesn't even get a mention.

Of course, you can also do it the easy way. A birth time of 12.48 = 12 hoursx60 = 720minutes + 48 mins = 768 mins divided by 4 = 192 days prior to birth, and counting backwards beginning with the day before as 1.:whistling::biggrin:.

Who needs 'brain training' when there's astrology?:tongue::lol:

Frisiangal
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