Bona Fortuna? 11th House?

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Sun,

when using Fagan Bradley
four natal planets are assembled in that stake
i.e. Mercury joins Sun, Moon, Mars :smile:


Haha! Thanks. :biggrin:

Mercury is Oikodespotes, thankfully there were luminaries assembled with Mercury. If luminaries is not there and then I would be a serial killer because of Mars Lord Shani give me a chance :lol:

OM....
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Haha! Thanks. :biggrin:
Mercury is Oikodespotes, thankfully there were luminaries assembled with Mercury.
If luminaries is not there and then I would be a serial killer because of Mars
Lord Shani give me a chance :lol:
OM....
Mars IS prominent
as are Sun, Moon AND Mercury :smile:
hence
due to this prominent assembly
there are multiple considerations relative to 10th stake/culminating angle matters
aka Action, Reputation, Advancement, Children, Change
and with Mercury involved
let's remember a few tips from Valens

VETTIUS VALENS STATES IN THE ANTHOLOGY AS FOLLOWS

'........MERCURYS effects go in many directions
depending on the changes of the zodia
and the interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results:
knowledge for some, selling for others, service for others
trade or teaching for others, farming or temple service or public employment for still others.
To some it grants authority, rentals, labor contracting, rhythmical performance
the display of public service, the acquisition of personal attendants
As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome and quite disturbed.


as I mentioned on another thread

Mercurys default is quicksilver shapeshifter :smile:
and so
good luck with finding a default re: Mercury

when considering Mercury
the basic default is:
Yes and No
it depends

which is why a certain outer planet is extraneous
Mercury is far more unpredictable











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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
let's consult helpful table provided by petosiris :smile:


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The aforementioned is true and scientific, when the points are on the ecliptic and with the same amount of right ascension inbetween at the rising or setting of the planet or star and the Sun, as there are degrees (4 min = 1 deg). We shall be obliged to increase or decrease the distances for risings and settings proportionally to the increase or decrease of right ascension.

When the planets or stars are away from the ecliptic by latitude, we shall project them according to the parallels and the so-called paranatellonta, rather than with ecliptic longitude, and then measure the right ascension between the Sun and the computed point, for this indicates the true rising and setting of the stars. If one is willing to take an additional trouble, he might as well take the exact current magnitude of the star and modify the mean arcus visionis accordingly. For though most powers come from the ecliptic and its division into twelve places, the rays of the planets increase or decrease in power with respect to the rays of the Sun, which naturally move in absolutely all directions unlike the four aspects. Truthfully, the King said ''the whole circle has been entrusted to the Sun's care''.

Sources:
Fatoohi, L. J., Stephenson, F. R., & Al-Dargazelli, S. (1998). The Danjon limit of first visibility of the lunar crescent. The Observatory, 118, 65-72.
Schoch, C. (1924). The “arcus visionis” of the planets in the Babylonian observations. Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, 84(9), 731-735.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
SIGN is not related to SECT
and therefore
it is important for beginners - such as for example, myself - to be aware
that SECT is determined by the SUN alone initially
i.e.
If a planet is not of the sect in favor
then
it is the wrong time of day for the planet.

keep in mind that
the following more detailed explanation
is a refresher

reminding us on the basics of HELLENISTIC rather than Medieval :smile:

Saturn and Jupiter are not of the sect in favor in NIGHT charts
and Venus and Mars are not of the sect in favor in DAY charts.

Mercury as a morning star makes it a diurnal planet
so Mercury is not of the sect in favor in a NIGHT chart

Mercury as an evening star makes it a nocturnal planet
so Mercury is not of the sect in favor in a DAY chart.

Saturn and Jupiter are of the diurnal sect
whether or not that sect is in favour.
Saturn and Jupiter are the Sun’s co-sectarians.

Venus and Mars are of the nocturnal sect
whether or not that sect is in favour.
Venus and Mars are the Moon’s co-sectarians.

Mercury as a morning star is of the diurnal sect
whether or not that sect is in favour.
Mercury as a morning star is the Sun’s co-sectarian
along with Saturn and Jupiter.

Mercury as an evening star is of the nocturnal sect
whether or not that sect is in favour.
Mercury as an evening star is the Moon’s co-sectarian
along with Venus and Mars.

THUS
If the chart is a day chart

THEN
the diurnal sect is in favour
and the Sun is the sect leader
and Jupiter and Saturn are the planets of the sect in favour:
and IF Mercury is a morning star, then Mercury too is of the sect in favour.

If the chart is a night chart
then the nocturnal sect is in favour
and the Moon is the sect leader
and Venus and Mars are of the sect in favour:
and if Mercury is an evening star, then Mercury too is of the sect in favour



since chart being discussed is diurnal
Mercury is a MORNING STAR
because
Mercury rises BEFORE the Sun
and is seen as a MORNING STAR for approximately ONLY TWENTY MINUTES HOWEVER
BEFORE SUN RISES


so keep in mind petosiris helpful table re: “arcus visionis”


nevertheless
it seems
in any event
that MERCURY in this specific chart is a MORNING STAR in a DIURNAL CHART
thus
MERCURY is of the sect in favor
because
Mercury as a MORNING STAR is the Sun’s co-sectarian
along with Saturn and Jupiter.
thus in this particular chart
Mercury, along with Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are of the sect in favorthe diurnal sect is in favour
and the Sun is the sect leader
and Jupiter and Saturn are the planets of the sect in favour:
and Mercury is a morning star,Mercury too is of the sect in favour.



 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun,

WITH REFERENCE TO THE HORIZON :smile:

The diurnal planets are happier
if they are above the horizon in a day chart
and diurnal Mercury IS above horizon
as are diurnal planets Jupiter and Saturn
and sect leader Sun

Likewise, the nocturnal planets are happier
if they are below the horizon in a day chart.
This is not really a condition of sect
—it does not define sect in any way.
This is only a way to further determine the strength
or mood of any particular planet.
And it’s only adding or subtracting mildly from the planet.

so

we note that nocturnal planets Moon, Venus and Mars
are all above horizon and therefore unhappy as a consequence

Moon and Mars in 10th stake
are unhappily assembled with very happy diurnal Sun/happy diurnal shapeshifter Mercury
the influences are mixed






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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun,
it seems that
an unhappy Mars is in powerful location of 10th stake Capricorn
the home and domain of Saturn
where Mars is exalted
but reliant on Saturn for resources
and
Mars access to resources
is dependent on whether Saturn has any resources :smile:
and
Saturn being in his home/hometown Aquarius
has plenty of resources
but
is located in AVERSION to Mars aka disjunct Mars
seems that
Mars has Saturns permission to act powerfully because in a stake
BUT
Saturn is averse in 11th
11th signifies FRIENDS, HOPES, GIFTS


Part of Fortune ruler is a VENUS in 11th SIGN and HOUSE :smile:
notice Venus is assembled with SATURN
Jupiter,
Valens said it's indication of unsociable dude lul :smile:
unsociable aka anti-social friends are a possibility
and notice that Aquarius Venus is Exalted ruler of 12th house
12th house significations aka suffering, enmities, weakness, dangers

Aquarius Venus is ruler of 7th and 2nd


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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun,

according to Valens :smile:

since Moon is of nocturnal sect
Moon in this chart is unhappy because not of the sect in favor
and also unhappy because above horizon - 10th stake in fact
Moon is powerfully placed to conduct its business
but Moon is unhappy
Moon is ruler of 4th subterranean place
significations aka Parents, Home, Mystical Matters, City
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Jupiter,

Thank you for taking a time to take a look "a undistinguished nativity". Really appricate it!

Well, despositor of the image, daimon, and fortune were out of sect at the angle. Hell what a shame. You may forget to tell me Mars was unhappy which ruled 1st house and the 8th house.

Btw, what are your thought on Omiphericus' reasoning to use Dorothean doctrine in System B meassurement? Very interesting to elaborate on this, or he was unaware such tradition so the example of his thread is JUST coincidences.

but Moon is unhappy
Moon is ruler of 4th subterranean place
significations aka Parents, Home, Mystical Matters, City

Actually, the maleficness of Mars related to 1st and 8th are more obvious in reality than the Moon, if you know what I'm saying. Perhaps it is because Moon is benefic star.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Jupiter,

Thank you for taking a time to take a look "a undistinguished nativity". Really appricate it!

Well, despositor of the image, daimon, and fortune were out of sect at the angle. Hell what a shame. You may forget to tell me Mars was unhappy which ruled 1st house and the 8th house.

Btw, what are your thought on Omiphericus' reasoning to use Dorothean doctrine in System B meassurement? Very interesting to elaborate on this, or he was unaware such tradition so the example of his thread is JUST coincidences.

Actually, the maleficness of Mars related to 1st and 8th are more obvious in reality than the Moon, if you know what I'm saying. Perhaps it is because Moon is benefic star.
Sun,
OMNISPHERICUS gave us a few tips :smile:

The type of Delineation

I'm giving here

is a mix of

medieval techniques

with those of the Hellenistic authors.



Robert Zoller played great role in my traditional astrology education and this is obvious for those who are familiar with his work.
I need to mention that even though Zoller was initially very fond on Arabia authors, his basic delineation techniques are taken from the early reneissance French astrologer Morin. Zoller studied with Zoltan Mason who introduced Morin and his basic natal delineation to Zoller. Zoltan was also one of the first translators of Morin.

Here are some tips for delineating the chart in this manner.

1. The good or bad signified by a house emanates from the ruler of the house.
This is the basic rule. The ruler of the house is giver of the material of the house.

Zoller gives the example of his own chart where he has Combusted Mercury in 11th, ruler of 4th. He comments that this kind of placement brings adversity to ones home and dwellings.

2. Benefit in one area of life can be produced by adversity, or even conflict, in another.

Again Zoller gives example from his own chart.
Jupiter in 9th in Scorpio disposited from Mars in 11th: Wisdom coming from conflicts.

3. The delineation tells you the what. The
predictive techniques tell you the when.


4. The Elemental Quality of the Sign of the Ascendant is showing the type of Primary Motivation of the native.
Fire goes for freedom of action and power.
Air goes for freedom of expression and movement.
The Water signs need emotional security
Earth signs need physical security.

The person with masculine Ascendant (or majority of planets in masculine signs) speaks in active terms: "I did this to that person".
The person with feminine sign on Ascendant or majority planets in feminine signs, speaks in passive terms: "This happened to me".

The Feminine signs seek advice because they need second hand in their decisions, in fact they want someone else to make the decision for them.
Masculine signs seek advice because they have many options so they are not sure which option is better.

Cardinal signs are most active. Cardinal water and earth (Cancer and Capricorn) are working great amount of actions but in circumstances and environment structured already by someone else.
Libra and Aries (Cardinal masculine) are working great in any kind of circumstances.

Fixed signs are centripetal, they need center. They are very successful in Acquisations.
Taurus hoards money.
Leo hoards glory and honor.
Scorpio hoards the hidden things, hidden motivations of other people, seek energy and vitality.
Aquarius hoards Knowledge.

Mutable signs vacillate between the two: cardinal and fixed.

5. Examine the planets which most closely aspects the Ascendant. These planets add to the whole Primary Motivation thing.

Planets aspecting the Ascendant represent powers the native can use in the world.

The aspecting planet's local determination will be added to the Primary
Motivation.
(Venus in 5th will add love for pleasure and entertainment to the native's Primary Motivation).

The aspect between the aspecting planet and the Ascendant tells you how the being of the planet and its local determination are linked.

6. The Ruler of the Ascendant by its house position tells you where (what area of life) the native will seek to realize his/her Primary Motivation.

Look also at all 5 dignity rulers in the place of the ASC. The Almuten and Exalted ruler are lamost as significant as the domicile ruler (sometimes even more).

The Ruler of the Ascendant (as well as the other rulers) by its nature and zodiacal state shows the methods the native will use and the success or failure of the drive.

This is great quote by Zoller:


Lets assume that a person has Cancer on the Ascendant,
The primary motivation of this person is the Need for Emotional Security.
The ruler/s of the Ascendant and their zodiacal and local state will determine How would this be achieved.

Lets assume Moon on IC in Libra Peregrine.
Jupiter in 6th (but 7th sign!) in Capricorn.
Venus in Sag in 6th - Peregrine.
Mars in Scorpio in 4th (but 5th sign!)
Saturn (term ruler) is in 5th Scorpio Peregrine.

We can see that Moon is strong by accident (being on angle), so we can judge first from there.
The need for Emotional Security this person would seek in the home, in the place of the father. The father would be the means through which this person would try to achieve the Emotional Security.
Jupiter - the exalted ruler is weak by being cadent, Venus too. They can't produce much in giving the emotional security this person seeks.
Jupiter by universal means suggest that the native would seek wisdom, religion (and the person actually did!) but by being cadent and in fall, it can't productively give what it promise.
Mars is in 4/5th and is strong by zodiacal state, but is out of sect malefic.
It would try to win competitions, but also with Saturn in 5th will give great deal of creativity. Mars rules the 10th - creativity and looking for career, would also give some amount of emotional security for this person. But by being square with Sun in 7th it means that it will have opposition from authorities and other people in general.

The primary motivation is great deal of what we unconsciously and often consciously seek for. Once that motivation is broken or someone interrupt it, we seek to fix that in the every possible way we can do that.

I will continue with the tips in my next post.

According to OMNISPHERICUS Primary Motivation of natal in this case
is FIRE

i.e.
The Elemental Quality of the Sign of the Ascendant is showing the type of Primary Motivation of the native.
Fire goes for freedom of action and power.


 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun,
SOME BASIC MEDIEVAL DELINEATION RULES

more interesting tips from Omnisphericus :smile:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463


I rely on the Ben Dykes explanation in his book "Using Medieval Astrology".

Planet in a certain house has many topics in hand.

1. First, that planet will act always according to its Essential Nature. Malefic will act by impeding, Benefic will act by increasing the good.

2. The Planet will bring with it self the Agenda of the houses she rules.
If a planet is in 11th, and ruling 4th, we can say that the Parents (or Father particularly) are native's Friends.

When you see a planet in certain house you should ask the following 4 questions (by the planet ruling some other house):

a) Who is experiencing the affairs of the house?
b) Why the houses affairs are manifesting or what has led to them?
c) What sorts of things the house's affairs are responsible for?
d) What the house's affairs are like?


1st House
Planets in 1st house are giving their own tone to the whole character and being to the native's character and body shape.
Mercury will show intelligent person. Venus love for fun. Sun Glory. Jupiter Wisdom and Philosophy. Moon changeability. Saturn melancholy. Mars passions and furiousity when in best, anger and destruction when in worst.

The planets by ruling some other house also shows What Comes to the Native's Experience. Ruler of 2nd in 1st shows that Money comes to the Native. Ruler of 3rd in 1st shows that the native has authority over the kin and siblings, over parents and family (4th), over the children (5th), over the servants (6th), over the partner (7th), over the partner's financies (8th), over the journeys (9th), in work (10th), over the friends (11th), over the enemies (12th).
10th in 1st also shows that honors are bestowed to the native. 11th in 1st shows that native gains Acquisitions.

The Ruler of 1st in house is showing in which field the native will seek to fulfill his Primary Motivation:
Ruler of 1st in 2nd - Through Acquiring Wealth.
1st in 3rd - Through Reading, Short Journeys and Communication skills.
1st in 4th - In the home, or through Family. Through the relationship with the Father.
1st in 5th - Through Children; joyful entertainment and gambling (in worse).
1st in 6th - through aquaring professional skills (6th is related with 10th by triplicity), through being of Service.
1st in 7th - Through Partnership.
1st in 8th - going through the hardships of life.
1st in 9th - through long journeys and philosophy.
1st in 10th - through the career and work.
1st in 11th - through friendships and hopes and wishes. Through Groups.
1st in 12th - Through Self-Undoing.

The ruler of 1st in houses is also showing the physical body's health.
Ruler of 1st in 6th/8th and 12th can show poor health.
The ruler of 1st in Houses can also shows the nature of the Life of the Native.
Ruler of 1st in 8th shows that the native has difficult life. In 11th - Fortunate. In 5th - Happy. In 6th - he is servant. In 12th - Troubled life.
Ruler of 1st in houses also shows what the native enjoys.
Ruler of 1st in 9th indicates that the native enjoys journeys and philosophy, or religion. Ruler of 1st in 5th - the native enjoys being with kids or being a performer, being creative and etc. Ruler of 1st in 6th shows that the native enjoys to be of service and to apply its professional skills.
Ruler of 1st in houses also shows what the native encounters in life.
Ruler of 1st in 12th shows that the native encounters secret enemies, in 7th - opposition and obstruction. In 8th - early death (if there are no benefics around and the sign is of malefic type, i.e. the malefic is ruling it).
2nd House is movable possessions of which the Money are the greatest representative.
the house position of the Lord of 2nd often shows the area of life which produces the money income for the native.

Lord of 3rd in 2nd shows that native's money are related to the kin and siblings.
Lord of 4th in 2nd: income from parents and inheritance.
Lord of 5th in 2nd: income from children, art, creativity, performance.
Lord of 6th in 2nd: through servants, servitude, professional skills.
Lord of 7th in 2nd: through the partner, the opponents are responsible for money income or decrease.
Lord of 8th in 2n: partner's money are native's money.
Lord of 9th in 2nd: through journeys and philosophy.
Lord of 10th in 2nd: through career and work, through honors.
Lord of 11th in 2nd: through Friends and Groups.
Lord of 12th in 2nd: through hospitalizations, prisons and secret things.

Lord of 2nd in 1st shows that money comes to the native easily.
Lord of 2nd in 2nd: - II -(same. Or, from the death of the partner (2nd is 8th from 7th in derived houses).
Lord of 2nd in 3rd: native gains profit through the kin and siblings. Through writing, traveling on short journeys, and through communication.
Lord of 2nd in 4th: Native gain's or loses (money) profit through family, inheritance, immovable properties, lands and etc.. or, money goes to the parents.
Lord of 2nd in 5th: through children, gambling, creativity, art, performing.
Lord of 2nd in 6th: money through applying the professional skills, through servitude, or money goes to the servants.
Lord of 2nd in 7th: money goes to the native's partner or opponents. Native gains through partnership or through the spouse.
Lord of 2nd in 8th: the native's partner gains from his death. The native uses the partner's money.
Lord of 2nd in 9th: native is spending money on long journeys and philosophy. Money through journeys and philosophy.
Lord od 2nd in 10th: native spents money on career. His work and career brings him money.
Lord of 2nd in 11th: native gives money to the friends, friends are using the native's money. Native gains through friendships and organizations.
Lord of 2nd in 12th: Native gives money to hospitals, prisons, secret societies and etc..
 
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