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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 01-28-2019, 02:48 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Hi!

As my graduation draws near, I'd like to understand the vocational placements better. Specifically, Saturn (R) in Pisces 10th.

I understand things aren't completely fatalistic in astrology, but this particular placement seems to hold an unequivocal reputation for a major rise-fall situation in the public eye. This I assume would seem like a scary prospect to anybody.

My question is: Is this an inevitability I should be prepared to navigate, or is Saturn trying to teach me a lesson which, if not properly internalised and implemented, will lead to this outcome? Essentially, is Saturn here focused on the roots of the disgrace or the aftermath of the disgrace? Or is this an incorrect interpretation altogether?

Chart: https://ibb.co/f1oZKz

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Unread 02-05-2019, 07:55 AM
greybeard greybeard is online now
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A planet is always concerned with the roots...and the outcome. It's all One.

Mother abandons family for Another Man. The 13 year old boy assumes her duties. Result is deep distrust of women, reclusion, feelings of abandonment haunt the adult boy. All of that and more are implicit in the Moon-Saturn opposition. As a younger child, deficiency of unconditional (mother's) love. It's all of a piece.

In most cases Saturn in 10 signifies "rise and fall"...Napoleon, Hitler, JFK, Nixon, Muhammad Ali, the leader of the "Heaven's Gate" cult....

Now what? Cancel life?

You are so smart and so powerful that you can "properly internalize and implement" Saturn's energies.?? Let me know how that works out.

In your chart, among other things, Saturn is weak by sign but angular and thus prominent in the life; but Saturn squares Jupiter, his lord and sole dispositor of the chart, plus he squares Mars and Venus. Plus he rules the 8th house. Saturn is unlikely to go through life unscathed.

Last edited by greybeard; 02-05-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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Unread 02-05-2019, 11:34 AM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Thanks for your response greybeard - your explanation of the state of my Saturn is very helpful and straightforward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Now what? Cancel life?
No. You're right, of course. Just young and afraid I suppose.

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
You are so smart and so powerful that you can "properly internalize and implement" Saturn's energies.?? Let me know how that works out.
I don't mean to be arrogant! I'm new to astrology and I guess I'm unclear on Saturn's 'taskmaster' nature. Perhaps you could help me understand:

I've come across two (seemingly different) views:
  1. Saturn is a 'Great Punisher' that punishes you repeatedly until you've understood and internalised whatever key lesson it is trying to teach you, after which its punishment might abate.
  2. Saturn imposes unavoidable, indefeasible obstacles to force you to come to terms with your human limitations.

To me (1) seems to imply a sense of actively working to overcome Saturn's challenges. (2) seems to suggest that to struggle against Saturn is pointless and one should accept their limitations and invest their energy elsewhere.

So in terms of a 10th house rise-fall, I could interpret (1) as someone working to be more patient and consistent, as they will continue to fall every time they rise vocationally through sheer luck or insufficient effort. (2) might be them learning to accept 'falls' as an inevitability not necessarily connected to their personal failings - as a way of reminding them that not everything is in their control. Both are true, of course, but not sure which one ties specifically into the Saturn placement. Or is it both of them?
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Unread 02-05-2019, 11:41 AM
pandit vijay varma pandit vijay varma is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

The 10th house characterizes the facility to ascertain ourselves and confer our communal reflection to the external world. Saturn in 10th house demonstrates powerful autonomy and ambition, along with the endurance and diligence ordained to improve an individual’s life. Saturn’s presence further influences an individual’s ego, wealth and bliss.

Last edited by pandit vijay varma; 02-06-2019 at 08:54 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 02-05-2019, 12:27 PM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniyas View Post


Thanks for your response greybeard - your explanation of the state of my Saturn is very helpful and straightforward.
No. You're right, of course. Just young and afraid I suppose.
I don't mean to be arrogant! I'm new to astrology and I guess I'm unclear on Saturn's 'taskmaster' nature. Perhaps you could help me understand:

I've come across two (seemingly different) views:
  1. Saturn is a 'Great Punisher' that punishes you repeatedly until you've understood and internalised whatever key lesson it is trying to teach you, after which its punishment might abate.
  2. Saturn imposes unavoidable, indefeasible obstacles to force you to come to terms with your human limitations.

To me (1) seems to imply a sense of actively working to overcome Saturn's challenges. (2) seems to suggest that to struggle against Saturn is pointless and one should accept their limitations and invest their energy elsewhere.
So in terms of a 10th house rise-fall, I could interpret
(1) as someone working to be more patient and consistent, as they will continue to fall every time they rise vocationally through sheer luck or insufficient effort. (2) might be them learning to accept 'falls' as an inevitability not necessarily connected to their personal failings - as a way of reminding them that not everything is in their control. Both are true, of course, but not sure which one ties specifically into the Saturn placement. Or is it both of them?
Saturn placement considerations include SIGN placement
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  #6  
Unread 02-05-2019, 02:01 PM
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'Tis better to have loved and lost than ne'er to have loved at all. Life's an adventure. You taste the sweet and the bitter. Recoil from neither.
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  #7  
Unread 02-05-2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

In the bible (Rom. 9:21) it says: "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?"

We have no say in our persons or destinies.
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  #8  
Unread 02-05-2019, 08:14 PM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

I have Saturn in the 10th also. It squares my sun and my mars and it's definitely the most challenging aspect I have in my chart. I am 29 years old and already had several ups and downs in my career. Always a struggle. My whole life is centered around my career, when it's going well, everything is well. When is going downhill, I get depressed and have to take medication to deal with it.
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  #9  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:27 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

You may wish to watch my favorite Saturn in 10th video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_b5CTTB8w


From my experience, Saturn in 10th has the following general effects:

1) Real success comes after age 35
2) A lot of inhibitions and shyness during youth and younger working years
3) The ultimate lessons are self-reliance and a deeper meaning in career


Saturn placements in natal generally means the point of your greatest insecurity and sensitivity. It's where it matters so, so very much to you, that you freeze into inaction and generally ***** up. Most of the challenges can be self-created due to internal complexes. However, none of the challenges need to be permanent. Depending on the nativity and how they eventually choose to deal with those challenges, it can become the point of their greatest accomplishment.

Jupiter is where you naturally have luck, but luck runs out. Saturn accomplishments lasts through time and are hard won.

In general, Saturn in 10th is a strong placement. From the vantage point of an entire life span, there is nothing to fear. However, 10th house matters would be more challenging, both internally felt, and externally manifested due to the complexes, during one's younger years.

For my point number three above, generally there are two lessons to be learned with the placement. The first is taking personal responsibility for your career, and the placement (depending on other aspects) may pivot into self-employment later on due to not wishing to rely on anyone. Second, the position means deep internal cravings. What you think may satisfy you - your definition of success - will change later on by ways of personal growth. You may figure out your true mission in life later on, and it will look very different than what you cared about in youth.

Simplistic astrology only focus on one placement. If your concern is career, you also need to look at the ruler of Saturn, in this case Jupiter and it's condition. The ruler of the MC and it's condition. And all aspects to Saturn to gain a more thorough picture.
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  #10  
Unread 02-06-2019, 02:24 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Just as a testimony, my older bro has this placement and he has been successful his whole life, and has the career of his dreams and all the flashy accoutrements to show for it. He lived with my mom when he was like 20-22 while he went to college and it was agony for him and he felt like an absolute failure for it. He had a lot of drive to be successful as we experienced a lot of difficulties growing up, so any deviation from his goal was not nearly tolerable for him. Success is his life. While Iím happy for him, itís hard to see someone be that ambitious to the exclusion of everything else in life. But my family is full of that personality type 🤷
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  #11  
Unread 02-06-2019, 07:27 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Hi,
I haven't read all the other postings, but thought I'd post my 2 cents real quick.

I think that a saturn on the 10th house means you'll have a reputation for being mature. Pressure from maintaining your reputation will sort of force you to uphold that. I see that your saturn is trining a scorpio mercury in the 6th house, which leads me to think you can work on investigative journalism, or something along those lines. Maybe your work will help create the impression you have a big heart (Pisces 10th house).

I also see that your saturn is squaring your venus and mars in Saggitarius. Maybe you want to play the field, or when you want to settle down, it'll be with someone from a different background than you, or maybe your relationship will be open. This area of your life may feel like a breath of fresh air, but also clashes with your saturn, and your reputation of being responsible.
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  #12  
Unread 02-06-2019, 07:13 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

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Originally Posted by RisingSag View Post
Hi,
I haven't read all the other postings, but thought I'd post my 2 cents real quick.

I think that a saturn on the 10th house means you'll have a reputation for being mature. Pressure from maintaining your reputation will sort of force you to uphold that. I see that your saturn is trining a scorpio mercury in the 6th house, which leads me to think you can work on investigative journalism, or something along those lines. Maybe your work will help create the impression you have a big heart (Pisces 10th house).

I also see that your saturn is squaring your venus and mars in Saggitarius. Maybe you want to play the field, or when you want to settle down, it'll be with someone from a different background than you, or maybe your relationship will be open. This area of your life may feel like a breath of fresh air, but also clashes with your saturn, and your reputation of being responsible.
Thanks RisingSag. You're correct about the reputation pressure. I love investigative journalism but it seems a bit out of reach to be honest! Maybe someday....it's a dream for sure.

I'm currently in a relationship with someone from a different cultural background, but tradition / family pressure is hindering the marriage process. Great reading all around
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Unread 02-06-2019, 07:41 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsareround View Post
Just as a testimony, my older bro has this placement and he has been successful his whole life, and has the career of his dreams and all the flashy accoutrements to show for it. He lived with my mom when he was like 20-22 while he went to college and it was agony for him and he felt like an absolute failure for it. He had a lot of drive to be successful as we experienced a lot of difficulties growing up, so any deviation from his goal was not nearly tolerable for him. Success is his life. While Iím happy for him, itís hard to see someone be that ambitious to the exclusion of everything else in life. But my family is full of that personality type 🤷
I love anecdotal examples like this - thanks Starsareround. I know for sure I'm cut from the same cloth, lol No concept of relaxing or socialising really (minus romance), I'd rather be working or learning every minute of my life...but I think religion keeps me sort of grounded in that respect, keeps emphasising moderation and relationships with others.
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Unread 02-06-2019, 07:48 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
You may wish to watch my favorite Saturn in 10th video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_b5CTTB8w


From my experience, Saturn in 10th has the following general effects:

1) Real success comes after age 35
2) A lot of inhibitions and shyness during youth and younger working years
3) The ultimate lessons are self-reliance and a deeper meaning in career


Saturn placements in natal generally means the point of your greatest insecurity and sensitivity. It's where it matters so, so very much to you, that you freeze into inaction and generally ***** up. Most of the challenges can be self-created due to internal complexes. However, none of the challenges need to be permanent. Depending on the nativity and how they eventually choose to deal with those challenges, it can become the point of their greatest accomplishment.

Jupiter is where you naturally have luck, but luck runs out. Saturn accomplishments lasts through time and are hard won.

In general, Saturn in 10th is a strong placement. From the vantage point of an entire life span, there is nothing to fear. However, 10th house matters would be more challenging, both internally felt, and externally manifested due to the complexes, during one's younger years.

For my point number three above, generally there are two lessons to be learned with the placement. The first is taking personal responsibility for your career, and the placement (depending on other aspects) may pivot into self-employment later on due to not wishing to rely on anyone. Second, the position means deep internal cravings. What you think may satisfy you - your definition of success - will change later on by ways of personal growth. You may figure out your true mission in life later on, and it will look very different than what you cared about in youth.

Simplistic astrology only focus on one placement. If your concern is career, you also need to look at the ruler of Saturn, in this case Jupiter and it's condition. The ruler of the MC and it's condition. And all aspects to Saturn to gain a more thorough picture.
.
I watched the video - it's a really straightforward and motivating interpretation. And your response answers all of the questions I've posed above, thank you! To corroborate your experience, point (2) is correct - I struggled with social anxiety and extreme avoidance during my teenage years - I went from being a high achiever to very nearly a college dropout, and am rebuilding now. And of course the 10th Saturn being a point of great insecurity is what led me to create this thread in the first place!

I'll be sure to keep the two lessons in mind as my life unfolds. Thank you.
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Unread 02-06-2019, 07:54 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

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Originally Posted by Isa View Post
I have Saturn in the 10th also. It squares my sun and my mars and it's definitely the most challenging aspect I have in my chart. I am 29 years old and already had several ups and downs in my career. Always a struggle. My whole life is centered around my career, when it's going well, everything is well. When is going downhill, I get depressed and have to take medication to deal with it.
Hey Isa. I'm sorry to hear how deeply it affects you. I expect my career trajectory is going to look a bit like yours, especially with the squares, but reading GemWDepth's post below yours might be worth your while - certainly made me feel more optimistic and resilient about life till the mid-thirties. What sort of work are you doing?
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Unread 02-07-2019, 05:24 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

I forgot to add that as a 10th Saturn, its very important to avoid comparing yourself to others, especially those with Jupiter or the Sun in the 10th (or Jupiter/Sun trine their MC).

Its very easy to wallow in jealousy or self-pity, and sometimes with the pressures of social environments unavoidable. But remember everyone has a different path in life. This placement is never meant to have crazy luck and ease (Jupiter) or a natural, magnetic confidence that draws followers and accolades (Sun).

Everything comes with real effort, and in truth a 10H Saturn wouldn't want it any other way.
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Unread 02-07-2019, 07:20 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Saturn can be a dick. I have Saturn-Sun conjunction in 4th, Saturn square Jupiter, Venus in Capricorn along with Uranus and Neptune (generational aspect but still tough nonetheless), it is hard. Sometimes unbearable. But guess what? Everyone has Saturn and Capricorn in their chart. Even those you think have it made still have problems. Success comes from within. The world (Satan) wants you to think otherwise. It wants you to compare. ***** that, show Saturn some love and watch her make your dreams come true. Limitations my ***, Saturn just points out where you have some growing up to do and some physical obstacles to climb. The only way to counter a heavy Saturn is to embrace it and work your tail off. Many people with everything still hate their lives, abuse drugs, succumb to society's standards. Saturn doesn't give some people that shiny new promotion or hit record because they don't ******* deserve it. Saturn also represents time and crystalization. So if you put the work in, people will recognize the maturity. For example Venus-Saturn musicians have songs that will never die. Saturn is all about maintaining and structure.

Mars-Saturn individuals may be known for their physical power or lasting motivation. Think Bruce Lee. He was literally paralyzed at 28 and couldn't even lift his leg up. The normal sap would have called his martial arts career done and done. But that's where knowing your purpose falls in. If you know what you want and know your passion it can easily stimulate into your reality. It's called living for something other than yourself.

Anyone can go get a degree. It's simple to keep the same job for years and run back home to your nest. That's not what life is about. Never has been. This is why you have legendary people and losers. Saturn in 10th isn't ****, that's its natural house. Leo DiCaprio and Michael Jackson possess this placement. Try having Saturn conjunction Moon in 8th or something. Americans got it all messed up. Be blessed you or me don't live in a third world country pondering our next meal, now that's rough. Keep your head up
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Unread 02-07-2019, 08:08 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Michael Jackson...
Was the epitome of happiness and died an early and unnatural death. He "fell from the heights", one of the meanings of an afflicted Saturn in 10.
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Unread 02-07-2019, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
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Michael Jackson...
Was the epitome of happiness and died an early and unnatural death. He "fell from the heights", one of the meanings of an afflicted Saturn in 10.
Dude if THAT is what you got out of everything I typed yeah you can't be helped..
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Unread 04-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

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Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
Hi!

As my graduation draws near, I'd like to understand the vocational placements better. Specifically, Saturn (R) in Pisces 10th.

I understand things aren't completely fatalistic in astrology, but this particular placement seems to hold an unequivocal reputation for a major rise-fall situation in the public eye. This I assume would seem like a scary prospect to anybody.

My question is: Is this an inevitability I should be prepared to navigate, or is Saturn trying to teach me a lesson which, if not properly internalised and implemented, will lead to this outcome? Essentially, is Saturn here focused on the roots of the disgrace or the aftermath of the disgrace? Or is this an incorrect interpretation altogether?

Chart: https://ibb.co/f1oZKz
The legendary actor Paul Newman had Saturn in Tenth House, and he was more successful all his life than most people. He lost a son to a youthful and tragic death, and in self-reflection he felt shame and inadequacy (Saturnine reactions) at his role as parent (a Saturn in Tenth House symbology), but he did not fall from grace. We all have crises that bring us grief.
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Unread 04-12-2019, 11:52 PM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Muhammad Ali had a 10th house Taurus Rx (but within a few days of StaDir) Saturn trine his 6th house earthy Sun and square his 6th house Moon.

And his fall from grace was....?
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Unread 04-23-2019, 12:47 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

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I have 10th Saturn in Aquarius and my return is coming year, it does not make great aspects on my map, the only ones are trine with 2th Taurus Venus and opposition with 4th Leo Jupiter, I have no definite career and still less idea of what to do in life But I hope this ends with my return.
As I mentioned in my previous reply, I also have Saturn in my 10th making horrible aspects. In my Saturn return I was pleasantly surprised: it was super smooth sailing. I was overall happy with the state of my life, even with work. That was last year, now everything is back to normal again tho
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  #23  
Unread 05-10-2019, 06:33 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Saturn in the 10th house is in domicile, as the houseís natural ruler is Capricorn. Having Saturn high in the heavens is quite a better placement than below the horizon, and especially if it is well-aspected or placed in the signs of Capricorn, Libra or Aquarius, it can even act as a benefic while in the 10th house. Nevertheless, one should not expect to effortlessly activate the positive traits of the ringed planet. Saturn is all about seriousness, and when in the 10th house, it requires a very devoted approach to all career matters. His rewards, even if quite a lot of time and efforts are needed for them to appear, are long-lasting and can accompany the native until his last life moments. It has to be noted, that Saturn in the 10th house usually brings success in the second part of oneís life; meanwhile, his Saturn return in his late 20ís will be a very stressful and responsible period. The native may have no other life than his occupation, during the transit.
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Unread 05-18-2019, 06:45 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

Go to
Wikipedia: "Heaven's Gate" cult.

Go to
Google: "horoscope of Marshall Applewhite".

10th house Capricorn Saturn.
Enjoy the story.
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Unread 05-19-2019, 12:18 AM
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Re: 10th Saturn - inevitable disgrace?

I think you will get to the top of your profession if you WANT it. And not let other stuff get in the way. Don't bite off more than you can chew at any time.
YOur career is NOT ruled by Saturn but Uranus. But even that, and even with Neptune conjunct, it is still pretty good.

Saturn has no oppositions so you just have to make the right decisions when the outer planets square, oppose or inconjunct your natal Saturn.

Always check your Jupiter (judgement) when you have to make important decisions. If Jupiter is well aspected or moderately aspected, you will probably make the right decision. If Jupiter is under attack you must put off decisions unless most of your other natal planets are well aspected at the same time.

Checking your Jupiter in your natal chart I see it's square Saturn. But Jupiter is in the 7th which means OTHER people may have too much influence on your decisions at times. You need to use your own inner knowledge to make your decisions. That is always going to be true but more so if you marry the wrong person.
YOu need and will always have to need to be your OWN best adviser thru your life. Keep your eye on your goals.


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Last edited by Lin; 05-19-2019 at 12:22 AM.
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