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Planetary returns Specific for Venus, Mercury, Mars return charts, just as in the Solar/Lunar charts techniques, not as transits to the natal chart. Also includes Lilith returns.


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  #1  
Unread 05-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Ajar Ajar is offline
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Fool Saturn?

Has any one tried traveling on their exact Saturn Return Day in order to move the planetary positions into other houses.

My 2nd SR is coming on July 25, 2009, and I have been contemplating a trip from NY, to Kansas City, to change house placements.

Most notably I would like to get Uranus out of my 5th, as I fear, that it may incline towards danger to my firstborn. The trip would move Neptune out of my 4th, (where I am thinking it will cause me some havoc, for the time I have left), and relocate it into my 5th.

Also, I would rather have Libra as the Ascendant, in my SR chart, than Scorpio.

But, somehow I wonder if Saturn can be trifled with in such a manner.



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Unread 05-28-2009, 03:22 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

I know of many people who quite regularly do that with their Solar Returns. They believe they can pick the best place to be for their birthday, to give them
better house placements for their SR chart. They seem to believe that it works, but I have not personally tried it myself.

I have seen clearly how my relocation charts changed my life when I have lived in different locations however. So who knows--it may be true.

But I think if you go there to try and put something over on Saturn, it may backfire. If you go there for another purpose, to visit friends, further career, etc, it may work fine.
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Unread 05-28-2009, 03:33 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Ajar, I strongly believe in "what you fear is what you attract". Uranus can also show that the trip will be very exciting and different. Why should it always have to be doom and gloom?
I dont believe in re-arranging my destiny and living my life strictly according to the transits is really not advisable. If I had done that I would have stayed home for a few years when Pluto was crossing my Ascendant.You still have free will you know!
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Unread 05-28-2009, 08:48 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

I don't know why you would want to travel on your Saturn return day. I have had two Saturn returns, and I thought they went fine.

Life is full of easy transits, tough transits, easy transits, tough transits....

I think they're there for a reason: to build character. Not to make us superstitious about astrology.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 04:25 PM
Ajar Ajar is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread
I don't know why you would want to travel on your Saturn return day. I have had two Saturn returns, and I thought they went fine.

Life is full of easy transits, tough transits, easy transits, tough transits....

I think they're there for a reason: to build character. Not to make us superstitious about astrology.
I guess we all look at astrology differently, and my view may be a bit more apocalyptic than most.

I began studying astrology during my first saturn return, (having already lost two siblings), to figure out why life could be so harsh.

Saturn has been the dominant planetary weight I have felt thoughout my life.

Now for this Saturn Return, I will have Uranus in my 5th, which threatens my 1st born. This quote is from "The New A to Z Horoscope Maker And Delineator" by Llewellyn George. "Loss of first child through some sudden or extraordinary manner or separation, or anxiety and trouble through children..."

One may say, "Well it is only a possiblility that this could come to pass", and I would not disagree with them, but why study astrology if you are not going to give it some weight...some solidity and validity beyond just ephemeral character building?

Are we never to act on what we think we have learned from astrology? If I am going to ignore this, should I just go out and ignore other caution signs, I have learned in everyday life?

I realize that suffering through more family tragedy might help build my character, but to heck with that....if I can even possibly ameliorate a threatening transit by taking a short trip, I will.

Finally, it seems that my study of astrology, and my experiences with Saturn may have been leading me to this point where I am questioning the lessons of the first return...and maybe one of those lessons was ...get out of town for the next one!
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Unread 05-29-2009, 05:25 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
One may say, "Well it is only a possiblility that this could come to pass", and I would not disagree with them, but why study astrology if you are not going to give it some weight...some solidity and validity beyond just ephemeral character building?
Ajar, thanks for your explanations and I do understand fully where you are coming from with this. I guess, if I had experienced those losses like you did, I also might have become more vigilant of transits.
If it eases your mind, by all means, do go to a place where the relocation chart shows a less threatening transit. Tragedy might help build character but it wont take away the fear or becoming less careful in life.

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Unread 05-29-2009, 07:44 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

I know that relocation charts work as I have experienced them and seen the differences in myself and my family. We even moved back to California because of the 'bad' angles we had when we moved East.

I also know a entire group of astrology buffs who would regularly spend months planning out the best place to be for their upcoming solar returns
and then we would talk about the differences. People purposely placed the Sun in houses they hoped to focus upon, and of course, tried to move the malefics into the background. So there is evidence that your idea can work.
You just need to make sure that you are actually making the Return chart better, and not worse.
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  #8  
Unread 05-29-2009, 08:45 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajar
I guess we all look at astrology differently, and my view may be a bit more apocalyptic than most.

I began studying astrology during my first saturn return, (having already lost two siblings), to figure out why life could be so harsh.

Saturn has been the dominant planetary weight I have felt thoughout my life.

Now for this Saturn Return, I will have Uranus in my 5th, which threatens my 1st born. This quote is from "The New A to Z Horoscope Maker And Delineator" by Llewellyn George. "Loss of first child through some sudden or extraordinary manner or separation, or anxiety and trouble through children..."

One may say, "Well it is only a possiblility that this could come to pass", and I would not disagree with them, but why study astrology if you are not going to give it some weight...some solidity and validity beyond just ephemeral character building?

Are we never to act on what we think we have learned from astrology? If I am going to ignore this, should I just go out and ignore other caution signs, I have learned in everyday life?

I realize that suffering through more family tragedy might help build my character, but to heck with that....if I can even possibly ameliorate a threatening transit by taking a short trip, I will.

Finally, it seems that my study of astrology, and my experiences with Saturn may have been leading me to this point where I am questioning the lessons of the first return...and maybe one of those lessons was ...get out of town for the next one!
Ajar, I don't own a copy of that book: does the excerpt you quote specifically refer to what goes on during your Saturn return, or something more general? Please note that Uranus simply refers to unexpected events. I wasn't able to open your charts to get a better look, unfortunately.

But even if we assume this book refers to the Saturn return, everyone will have one at about 29 years of age; and then again at about 59 years of age. Everyone. If they live so long.

Ajar, with all due respect, about 1/12 of the human population will have Uranus in the 5th house during this transit. The global population will vary depending upon the age at which they had their Saturn return. But if we take today's figure, that is roughly 6,783,091,255 people divided by 12 houses (according to the US Census Bureau) or 565,257,605 people. We have to deduct for childless people, couples who both have this placement, astrological anomalies, people who had their return when the world population was somewhat smaller, &c. I don't know what is a reasonable figure, but let's take away 3/4 of them. This still leaves us with 141,314,401 people. Or take away 90% of them, which leaves us with over 56 million people. The notion that 56 million people would experience the loss of their first-born child, or even that considerable harm would come to them, would be a global crisis of an unimaginable magnitude, the like of which the world has never seen.

This is why I am not a supporter of Doom and Gloom astrology. I suspect that if you look back through your entire life and check the transits, you may find that many of them weren't so bad. It is tragic that you lost two siblings at a young age. But Saturn has many positive faces, also. I hope you are also pursuing Saturn's lessons of patience, hard work, resourcefulness, and self-discipline. These he tends to reward later in life.

But even if we take your Llewellyn George description to heart, I see that the alternative to the loss of a child is "anxiety and trouble through children..." Well, this has already happened to you, has it not? Your anxiety is so great that you would consider a trip far from home?

Note also that some astrologers do not put as much weight on the exact moment of outer planets aspecting one another, as they do to a quicker trigger-point that happens about the same time, like the moon. Others think solar arcs are more accurate predictors.

I do not believe that most modern astrology books would even mention the loss of a child with Uranus in the 5th. I just looked up L. George's book. It was originally published in 1910 (when doomsday astrology was still popular) and I think its latest edition was 2003, but I don't know how much it changed the original.

Ajar, there is just no end to this.

Last edited by waybread; 05-29-2009 at 09:11 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 05-29-2009, 09:00 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid
I know that relocation charts work as I have experienced them and seen the differences in myself and my family. We even moved back to California because of the 'bad' angles we had when we moved East.

I also know a entire group of astrology buffs who would regularly spend months planning out the best place to be for their upcoming solar returns
and then we would talk about the differences. People purposely placed the Sun in houses they hoped to focus upon, and of course, tried to move the malefics into the background. So there is evidence that your idea can work.
You just need to make sure that you are actually making the Return chart better, and not worse.
Katydid, do you know whether those people who actually travelled to a different location on their solar return dates actually did have a better year than the one they would have predicted, had they stayed home? And if they moved malefics to less harmful houses, did they have effects in those areas of life, vs. in the anticipated areas?

Just curious!
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Unread 05-29-2009, 09:05 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

I totally agree with Waybread here, and golly I LOVE statistics to prove a point!

I once read an old astrology book and was horrified by the thought that, because I had a certain placement/aspect, my youngest child was at risk of accident or drowning. Good grief. Who wants to go through life weighed down by that sort of fear?

I disagree with moving around trying to change your SR chart, because your natal chart is what holds the promise of your life, and SR charts can't be read in isolation from your natal, your transits, and your progressed chart. All of these, IMO, hold more promise of what is likely to happen, rather than simply a SR chart.

And Uranus in the 5th doesn't necessarily mean anything will happen to your child, does it? It could mean a million and one things, including the fact that you might be thunderstruck by love...maybe while you're running away from your home town to avoid that SR chart...

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Unread 05-30-2009, 12:22 AM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Thanks, AG. I am not sure how well I did with the data, because it later occurred to me that everyone would have a Saturn return at a slightly different moment in time; if that is what L. George meant by dangers with a 5th house Uranus at that moment. On the other hand, one would think that word would get out among life insurance companies and actuarial scientists that there was a sharp spike in the deaths of first-born children of 29-year old and 59-year old parents if this type of mortality were common.

I might also mention to Ajar that I am a big fan of choice-centred astrology. Please let me know if you are interested.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 01:38 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread
Katydid, do you know whether those people who actually travelled to a different location on their solar return dates actually did have a better year than the one they would have predicted, had they stayed home? And if they moved malefics to less harmful houses, did they have effects in those areas of life, vs. in the anticipated areas?

Just curious!
It is hard to prove one way or another , as nobody knows what would have happened had they stayed home. This was back in the day when I used a little handheld 'astrolog' computation device to calculate charts--and it spit out a little receipt size page of data. So I can't look back at the charts to double check.
One couple that was very memorable was a massage therapist and her chiropractor husband, who were trying to conceive. She had a Saturn/Neptune/ Moon conjunction in her 5th house in Libra. She had one miscarriage, then no pregnancies for a couple of years. She had her Saturn Return looming on her 29th birthday as well, so she took a trip to Hawaii for her birthday, that would move that Libran stellium into the SR 3rd house, while it was being hit by Saturn. And so she then had her Sun and SR Sun in the 5th.
The surprising twist was that she didn't end up getting pregnant that year, BUT her sister did, and she adopted the baby because her sister was a drug addict and unable to raise the baby. So in effect, the change of location worked, but not in the way she had planned. [sat/nep/moon in 3rd]

EDIT= Something else that was interesting was that they had been kind of out of touch with the little sister for a couple of years, but they reached out to her and asked her to care for their dogs while they were gone. So they became 'friends' again during this time/

Also, I knew a woman whose battle with M.S. had been going on for years, but she was pretty strong and relatively free from the worst symptoms, and she quite regularly 'traveled' for her Birthday. She had a nice trust fund however, and loved to travel and wanted to do it as long as she still could, so she would come in for readings to see where the best time zone would be ,so she could plan her trips. I don't know if it 'worked' exactly, but we did manage to keep malefics out of her 6th and 12th, and we tried to make her Sun sign placement strong and vital. Meanwhile she went to Hawaii, and Belize and Fiji and celebrated with her family there so it worked 'theoretically.' She was also a prominent member of the Church of Religious Science, which was very into the motto " your thoughts are prayers" and she lived what she preached. She took the action of moving' into grace' as she called it very seriously. She may have gotten the same results just by
staying home and doing her prayers and affirmations from her living room.
But something about the 'magic' of changing your horoscope for the better is inviting.
The thing is, if a client showed you a chart of their new SR, and they 'happened' to be out of the country on their birthday, you would read that chart for the appropriate time zone. So why is it such a stretch to think that one could take control of that SR by choosing the placements they would prefer ? I cannot afford to do so each year, but I do understand the motivation. Especially given intense circumstances like illness or infertility.

Last edited by katydid; 05-30-2009 at 01:49 AM.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 07:25 AM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajar
.....I wonder if Saturn can be trifled with in such a manner.
Perhaps you'd be using Saturn wisely rather than trifling with it, Ajar.

Let's speculate for a moment that the Saturn Return is a time of "re-birth", offering (as you say) the spiritually/astrologically aware individual an opportuinity to shape their earthly experiences/house-related events for the next thirty years.....Then, you would be working with the Cosmos by moving temporarily to a chosen location rather than unconsciously allowing "fate" to rule you........A wise use of Saturn provided it is not done out of fear.

However, I doubt that you can escape the lessons of Saturn by relocating...only the way in which they might manifest in your life.....(And this may result in the Saturn/5th issue being still there in the relocated chart, but presented in a different way).

Nevertheless, I would aim to take the vacation/relocate in July.....secure in the knowledge that the Cosmos will find a way to prevent you from doing so if appropriate.........But I think the "Law of Grace" is the real solution to overcoming your concerns, as it allows those who intellectually grasp the lessons of their charts (and implement them) to avoid experiencing the related physical events.

EJ
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Unread 05-30-2009, 03:07 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Ajar, with all due respect, about 1/12 of the human population will have Uranus in the 5th house during this transit. The global population will vary depending upon the age at which they had their Saturn return. But if we take today's figure, that is roughly 6,783,091,255 people divided by 12 houses (according to the US Census Bureau) or 565,257,605 people. We have to deduct for childless people, couples who both have this placement, astrological anomalies, people who had their return when the world population was somewhat smaller, &c. I don't know what is a reasonable figure, but let's take away 3/4 of them. This still leaves us with 141,314,401 people. Or take away 90% of them, which leaves us with over 56 million people. The notion that 56 million people would experience the loss of their first-born child, or even that considerable harm would come to them, would be a global crisis of an unimaginable magnitude, the like of which the world has never seen.
First, let me state that the Llewellyn quote was not targeted directly at Saturn Returns, but as a natal placement. Which I am sure will give the "astrology-light" proponents a little more oomph for their views. But given the nature of Planetary Return Charts, we all know that the return chart is viewed as a natal chart for horary purposes.

Second, also with all due respsect for differing opinions, the statistics quoted here are fuzzy and completely miss the point. The fuzziness comes from the fact that there is no accounting for any of thousands of culling effects from positive transits, aspects, natal configs, etc. And the missing the point comes from the fact that Waybread's opinion does not take into account that there is always a tacit understanding, that stated possibilities of an event occurring are not written in stone, and will not befall every person with the particular configuration, but do increase the probabilities of the event, for that placement.

Thirdly, and most importantly Waybread's reply seems to discount the fact that each astrologer has views that are molded by their particular experiences. My so-called "doom and gloom" approach is not taken from thin air, but from personal experiences. Sloughing-off Llewellyn George as "old-fashioned" does not really merit indulgence, since time is relative, and bad things can and do happen. Nevertheless, I understand where Waybread and others are coming from in that they take the whole business a lot more lightly than I.

Lastly, my original question was really trying to find info. from others that may have traveled to change house placements, and so I thank Katydid for her replies.

Quote:
However, I doubt that you can escape the lessons of Saturn by relocating...only the way in which they might manifest in your life.....(And this may result in the Saturn/5th issue being still there in the relocated chart, but presented in a different way).
This EJ, I can certainly consider a valid possiblity. And we will never know as we move from place to place how/if we are changing our fates, or whether our destinies are pre-determined and we are just going through the motions.

Last edited by Ajar; 05-30-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 04:27 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Yes, so sorry EJ, somehow I took Waybreads reply and attributed it to you....(dang Saturn..lol) let me go back and edit...my apologies, and thanks for your reply.

Last edited by Ajar; 05-30-2009 at 04:32 PM.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:01 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

ok actually i traveled to do just this.I got scholarship to Iowa ,to loose it in few days over thyroid gland problem and the fact that i was no athlete in that place.. My tenis sucked that my coach asked me if it was me on the tape. i moved to California following astrocarthography guidelines as my knowledge of astrology was not that big at 19 but it worked and astrologer advised me that my tenis there will be better than ever ,even better than back home .i did not have problem with my tyroid there and we are talking like few days difference and i played my tennis and graduated college.
Than i wanted to stop being so superficial and i moved to newyork despite the bad aspected NewYork on the same astrocartography map to experience worst crisis ever and MAKE a move that i would of never made if i stayed in California .And that was to move back HOME ,to Europe.
I would like to mention that not only has my personality changed every time i moved but i have also experienced other things to change.Such as way i looked and way i acted,where i was more feminine certain places and attracted different men ,were interested in different things to choose to study exc.I started studying law in Sweden ,which also is not my home but i lived in 4 different continents ,and than i ended with economics degree from California to now realise that back home i wanna work in the NGOs and get a degree in political science.
i say if u find a place where u ll be ur better self u go ahead and move as i have myself witnessed lot of changes everytime i moved.Maybe its plain relocations and all these different cultures that affected me in some way and forced me to change and maybe i was to young so its normal to change during that age, but i do give astrocartography lots of credit for being accurate and i do love to hear about people experiences who have relocated for a specific purpose.
Till example i know a couple that has never argued ever to move to Hawaii badly aspected for one of them to Break up and never get back together..So yes

Last edited by angeldust; 05-30-2009 at 09:05 PM.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:25 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Ajar, have a great trip. I hope you enjoy Kansas City. Your mind seems made up.

But just to continue with some ideas for others who might read this thread....A natal placement is very different from a placement by transit. So it isn't a question of taking some astrological learning from Column A, and applying it to Column B; but of really thinking through how best to infer information that may or may not be what the author intended. And then astrology authors disagree on many points.

Where a cookbook on natal astrology does indicate probable effects of a planet in a house, then I think the arithmetic I did in my above post is legitimate. I could easily have gotten some numbers wrong or overlooked some variables, but even so; we are still looking at tens of millions of people who somehow manage to raise healthy, happy first-born children with Uranus in the 5th house.

Most cookbooks do not get into all of the complexities to which Ajar correctly refers in his previous post. But all of these complexities are precisely why I don't think expensive disruptions to one's life are necessary. Once you get back home again, that planet is still going to be in the house you sought to avoid; and if it is an outer planet making a challenging aspect, you are going to have to deal with it for a few years regardless, and independently of where you travel on your solar or Saturn return holiday.

For those who do hope to tweak their charts, however, I am sure the airline and hotel industries will happily welcome "astrology tourists."

Again, I was not able to open Ajar's charts, so I can't tell how Uranus or Saturn are aspected; both natally and by transit. This would make a huge difference in expected outcomes.

Here are two excerpts from Robert Hand, Planets in Transit (1976, Whitford Press, pp. 371 375,):

"During the transits of Uranus to your natal chart, you will experience phenomena that are out of accord with your everyday life. The events that occur will be unusual, upsetting, sudden, and unexpected. For this reason astrologers are often circumspect about giving precise delineations concerning Uranus. Almost all that can be said for sure is to expect the unexpected.

"But the transits of Uranus are not malefic in the traditional sense, except to the extent that you are unwilling to accept newness and change in your life....Many people value regularity and predictability so much that they will even sacrifice personal happiness to get it....But this kind of rigidity is ultimately destructive to life in its highest sense...."

On Uranus transiting the 5th house, Hand writes:

"This should be quite an exciting period in your life...." He focuses on new forms of "self-expression and creative self-release" as well as new forms of recreation and even love affairs.

"Children are another fifth-house matter that can change or even become upset during this time. If you have children, you will not be able to take them for granted. Their development or activities will require that you pay attention and be very conscious of what is happening to them." Hand notes that children may become rebellious, difficult, accident-prone, or ill during this transit, "especially if your natal chart indicates difficulties with children. On the other hand, this transit may mean that through your children you will encounter very positive, new and stimulating experiences."

"Like the other Uranus transits but more strongly, this transit is an opportunity to redefine yourself and approach to life with a new kind of understanding."
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:45 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Angeldust, I would look at relocation charts and astro*carto*graphy for a permanent move; or for a move of a few years' duration that would have a big impact, such as attending a university. Oftentimes people have to move quite a distance away from their birth place to see any significant changes, however. Your story is very interesting as to what kind of changes a big move can make!

To me, the difference is in quick trips designed just to put one's solar (or planetary) return chart in different positions, without any long-term move intended. And for the above-mentioned reasons. Any heavy outer planet transits are going to be in the same houses when one returns home after a few days. So the heavy planets still have to be dealt with--sometimes for months or even years.

I used to religiously look at my solar return charts with a fair bit of anxiety. I still look at them casually; as well as Jupiter and Saturn returns. I just haven't seen a solar or even a Jupiter return make a giant difference in my life. Looked at from the perspective of transits (which is what a SR is), the sun hits its natal position for a day. Then it moves on. An outer planet, however, can make an aspect for years if it goes retrograde (and then direct again) over a sensitive aspect. So I see these as far more monumental. And then one might have to move a long way from home for quite a while to put them in another house.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:59 PM
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Re: Fool Saturn?

oh yes for me it was quite a different story i was always moving .And each place i was expected to live there at least 2,3 years if not more .except in newyork which i frequently visited during my university years and had not experienced any of the harsh aspects that i experienced later when i made permament move and settled there.
Also i m always so confused in what i should look at concering transits and solars.I tend to know a little bout everythn but not much bout anythn ... LOL concering astrology i mean..

Like i know the following .person should in order to see who she is in a new location make a new natal chart with same birthdate and time and for the location put the new city of residence .
But i dont know anythn bout solar returns as these i believe should in my case of frequent moves mean that i look up solar return for the newly made nata using the new city as well ..at least thats how i did it when i wanted to check .Also one question i always wondered .
Is it true that i should make a new natal for new me in the new location to see how compatible i m with my guy or should i use the birthinfo.
is it relevant that i m not at home so to say? or am i complicating things to much_But anyways i do see now how u say traveling and moving is two different things.And yes maybe if u dont plan to stay for few years u should not to try to fight some big transits especially if they last real long.
If its a week or so ,i d also go if i could afford it ofcourse.
I wish i could move somewhere where my love life would BE normal for once or where i d be super succesful in my career so i dont need a husband

Last edited by angeldust; 05-30-2009 at 10:15 PM.
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  #20  
Unread 05-30-2009, 10:24 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread

To me, the difference is in quick trips designed just to put one's solar (or planetary) return chart in different positions, without any long-term move intended. And for the above-mentioned reasons. Any heavy outer planet transits are going to be in the same houses when one returns home after a few days. So the heavy planets still have to be dealt with--sometimes for months or even years.
.
You are right. That is a major factor of course, having those transits continuing their movement through your natal chart. There is no getting around that. I think it is just that sometimes people like to do whatever they can, take any vital action they can, to try and make some changes. If you feel you can 'improve' your SR in some way, then maybe it helps mentally or emotionally, as you continue the battle when you return home.
I know that when battling infertility, positive thinking is vital. Sometimes relaxation is necessary. IF somebody felt more relaxed to find their SR sun being in their 5th and Saturn safely tucked away that year, maybe it would be a good thing for them. Sure, they still have saturn transiting, but not necessarily the entire year, like the SR promises. Who knows?
I completely get what you are saying, and I would not actively try and counsel people to run from their transits.
But I did see some positive things happen when people 'took control' of their Solar Returns, and made conscious decisions about what they themselves wanted for their new year.
I think that in terms of 'magic' and of the secret, this can be a good empowering choice. Again, they do not get to completely sidestep the issues, but they can be addresssing them in their own way, by trying to shape the way their transits will be expressed in their new year.

I can see both sides, and that is my Libran influence I suppose. But I also see the benefits from trying to take hold of 'As Above, So Below' and choosing where the focus will play out.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 02:57 PM
Ajar Ajar is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

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Again, I was not able to open Ajar's charts, so I can't tell how Uranus or Saturn are aspected; both natally and by transit. This would make a huge difference in expected outcomes.
Waybread..not sure why you can not open my charts, and wonder if others are having the same difficulty.

You may be right regarding the astrological efficacy of the trip I am planning.

On the positive side, any lessening of the mental worry of losing a son that is studying to be a policeman, may in itself, make this a worthwhile adventure.

Also, I can practice relocation astrology by visiting a spot that happens to be right under my Sun MC line, and experience firsthand some of the concepts I have been reading about.

The Saturn Return chart for KC, would move Libra to the Asc, Neptune out of the 4th, and Uranus out of the 5th. All of which, I would prefer as a snapshot for this return chart.

On the negative side, a few days out of my life, and a little money.

Also I realize that upon returning the planets will still be in the houses I had tried to avoid. Whether those planets will exert the same force upon the houses in question, may be debatable. Afterall, one of the concepts of Planetary Return Charts is that they be viewed and generally accepted as a natal chart for the duration of that transit. In this case 30 years. Leaving the return chart shaded with the actuality of the return snapshot.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 05:01 PM
Ajar Ajar is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

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I completely get what you are saying, and I would not actively try and counsel people to run from their transits.
Katydid, your replies are quite interesting and informative, endowed with an understanding of the human psyche.

Re: the above quote...

I prefer to think of it this as traveling to a better transit, and I believe you have previously stated it in that manner.

Just to elaborate on the thought though....many people of a non-astrological background travel everyday, blissfully unaware of any changes they may be predicating on their charts.

Doctors counsel people to move to better climates. Businesses relocate workers to productive areas. Nomads have been traveling throughout history for all sorts of reasons, etc.

So my question would be....why not counsel clients to travel for better astrological configs?

Other than the fact that relocation techniques have not become a undisputed science, (which is also true of Astrology itself), and care would be needed to make sure ones client was not sent-off jumping from the pan, into the fire...I fail to grasp why an advisor that has seen the positive results of a particular method, (such as you, outlined in previous posts) would not use that knowledge to enhance their clients astrological well-being.

Last edited by Ajar; 05-31-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 09:40 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

I guess because, in looking at my own chart, I have Neptune in late Libra, conjunct Sun @ 0Scorpio .
In other words, I can see both sides.
I have seen instances in which traveling to adjust one's SR,
seemed to have the intended effects. And I see the value in the actions taken. As I have said previously, taking a stand against an upcoming onslaught , feels great. And the clients who I counseled had the time and money and astrological expertise themselves, to comprehend the actions they were taking.

I think the point that Waybread is making is that it is a slippery slope perhaps. Does one leave town for Mars returns, eclipses, etc? And most important of course, is the argument that Saturn is still there , hunkered down in the 4th when one get's home.

So the quote that you showed above is true, I would not counsel someone to
'run' from their transits. But if they had your attitude, and your consciousness, then I would gladly support their decision. You have worked to understand just where your best transit lines actually appear, but you understand that the transits here still exist. So I think for you it is a good plan of action.

But it may not be the answer for everyone, especially if they think they are
escaping the lessons of the planets completely.And you know that is not true, so go for it.

p.s.
My son wants to go to the police academy as well. He is planning to begin work as an EMT this summer, in hopes of getting accepted into the academy in a yr or 2.

Last edited by katydid; 05-31-2009 at 10:46 PM.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 08:46 AM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Fool Saturn?

Quote:
But just to continue with some ideas for others who might read this thread....A natal placement is very different from a placement by transit. So it isn't a question of taking some astrological learning from Column A, and applying it to Column B; but of really thinking through how best to infer information that may or may not be what the author intended. And then astrology authors disagree on many points.
I agree with this of course. I never actually ONLY look at the SR chart. Some say, they can derive everything from it, I think you are overlooking quite a bit by doing so. I always keep the natal chart on the side. When Uranus is placed in house C in your natal chart, but during this year, you find it in your house E, then I believe that it's C house energies or stuff related to that house, could in this particular SR year, be more felt in house E. It could mean that some sort of experience (lets say C = house 3, writing, speaking in public), could this year be used in house E= house 5, where you could turn it into some creative activity like writing your first book or being on stage and lecturing or being in a play, and this is clear also from what Hand says :
Quote:
"This should be quite an exciting period in your life...." He focuses on new forms of "self-expression and creative self-release" as well as new forms of recreation and even love affairs.



Now depending as well on how the natal Uranus is aspected and how the SR Uranus is aspected, (like in natal a square to Venus, but in the SR a trine) then this could show a positive development or vice versa.

Aspects between two planets being repeated in a SR are worth looking at, whether it is a sextile turned into a square or an opposition to a trine .
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