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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 05-14-2019, 02:13 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Is the moon we are born with our natural level of emotional strength that we were born with?

Is the mercury we are born with our natural level of mental strength that we were born with?

Because as far as I'm aware of, the natal moon and natal mercury is something unique to ourselves, so everyone must have a naturally different brain and naturally different level of emotional strength.

Is the brain we are born with filled with genes that contain our unique mental strength level (our mercury) and our unique emotional strength level (our moon)?
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  #2  
Unread 05-14-2019, 04:09 AM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

I'm not sure what you mean by "natural strength."

The moon gives your emotional nature, but it also symbolizes your home and experience of your mother.

Mercury gives thinking and communicating.

A sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates. Here it is helpful to look at the modalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) and element (earth, air, fire, or water.) Mercury in Taurus, the fixed earth sign, would probably take a deliberate and practical approach to thinking through problems, for example.

A house shows where or in what type of activity the planet focuses.

A planet in the sign it rules (domicile) is usually extra strong. So one's emotional nature (moon) would be strong when in its own sign of Cancer.

In modern astrology we tend to look at aspects. A well-aspected planet functions more efficiently and easily than one involved in squares and oppositions, for example. In traditional western astrology you'd look more at essential dignities (like terms, exaltation or fall, &c)

Consider that someone might be born with a chart showing a lot of intellectual promise, and then have a serious head injury as a young child. You might have two "time twins" raised in very different circumstances that affect the child's emotional and mental development.

A birth chart is not a biography, but an indicator of potential.

So far there's not much of a marriage between genetics and neuroscience with astrology.
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  #3  
Unread 05-14-2019, 08:40 AM
smasher4you smasher4you is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

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4. Problems with the three basic ideas of astrology
5. Problems with the origin of astrological ideas
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Last edited by wilsontc; 05-14-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 05-14-2019, 07:44 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "natural strength."

The moon gives your emotional nature, but it also symbolizes your home and experience of your mother.

Mercury gives thinking and communicating.

A sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates. Here it is helpful to look at the modalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) and element (earth, air, fire, or water.) Mercury in Taurus, the fixed earth sign, would probably take a deliberate and practical approach to thinking through problems, for example.

A house shows where or in what type of activity the planet focuses.

A planet in the sign it rules (domicile) is usually extra strong. So one's emotional nature (moon) would be strong when in its own sign of Cancer.

In modern astrology we tend to look at aspects. A well-aspected planet functions more efficiently and easily than one involved in squares and oppositions, for example. In traditional western astrology you'd look more at essential dignities (like terms, exaltation or fall, &c)

Consider that someone might be born with a chart showing a lot of intellectual promise, and then have a serious head injury as a young child. You might have two "time twins" raised in very different circumstances that affect the child's emotional and mental development.

A birth chart is not a biography, but an indicator of potential.

So far there's not much of a marriage between genetics and neuroscience with astrology.
Cancerian energy brings the moon heightened sensitivity. Surely the moon feels comfortable doing what it naturally is built to do, which is feel and create emotion/sensitivity/irrational thinking. Cancerian energy to the moon would only bring sensitivity to the moon in question, which is really bad in the real world when it comes to the hustle bustle situations to be dealt with out there, as clearly being emotionally weak and sensitive is only gonna do you bad and slow you down mentally in the real world.

Well the thing is, a chart showing intellectual promise wouldn't be one that would have the chart holder end up showing less intellectial strength than the chart is promising. This is because the natal chart is our fate, it is destiny that we cannot escape.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 08:57 PM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

I don't take a deterministic, fatalistic view of astrology-- a concept that I find logically untenable.

Each planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations and rulerships that are nevertheless consistent with the planets' &c core meanings. The key is to adopt empowering meanings vs. disempowering meanings.

For example, strong feelings are not necessarily a sign of weakness or irrationality. (Oh, except in some antiquated machismo playbook.) You've been in love once or twice, haven't you?

If I look at your horoscope, for example, the moon symbolizes your emotional nature, but it also says something about your home, as well as your experience of your mother and of mature women generally. It also says something about the house with Cancer on the cusp. If you are a gardener, you might plant and harvest by moon signs. In horary astrology, you'd see the moon as the major source of action-- or inaction-- in the chart. In medical astrology, the moon rules the stomach, pancreas, and female breasts and reproductive organs.

I could go on in this fashion, but hopefully I've given the main ideas.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #6  
Unread 05-14-2019, 10:07 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I don't take a deterministic, fatalistic view of astrology-- a concept that I find logically untenable.

Each planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations and rulerships that are nevertheless consistent with the planets' &c core meanings. The key is to adopt empowering meanings vs. disempowering meanings.

For example, strong feelings are not necessarily a sign of weakness or irrationality. (Oh, except in some antiquated machismo playbook.) You've been in love once or twice, haven't you?

If I look at your horoscope, for example, the moon symbolizes your emotional nature, but it also says something about your home, as well as your experience of your mother and of mature women generally. It also says something about the house with Cancer on the cusp. If you are a gardener, you might plant and harvest by moon signs. In horary astrology, you'd see the moon as the major source of action-- or inaction-- in the chart. In medical astrology, the moon rules the stomach, pancreas, and female breasts and reproductive organs.

I could go on in this fashion, but hopefully I've given the main ideas.
Well you're misconstruing the meaning of cancer energy on the moon and what type of energy water brings to the moon entirely. The element that is Water is sensitivity, emotion, irrationality, and feeling. So thats exactly what cancer brings to ones moon/emotional state.
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  #7  
Unread 05-15-2019, 04:03 AM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

I'm not misconstruing anything. I've been studying astrology since 1990. How about you?

What I disagree with is your apparent concept that a Cancer moon is weak. It's not. Watery, yes. Weak, no, unless it's afflicted.

Are you familiar with the Astrodienst www.astrocom Astro-DataBank? You can pull up the charts of thousands of people, mostly celebrities, with Cancer moons.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #8  
Unread 05-17-2019, 07:43 PM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

I don't know if waybread has completely abandoned this thread, but I'd like to continue to pick her brains if she is inclined to oblige.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "natural strength."

The moon gives your emotional nature, but it also symbolizes your home and experience of your mother.

Mercury gives thinking and communicating.

A sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates. Here it is helpful to look at the modalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) and element (earth, air, fire, or water.) Mercury in Taurus, the fixed earth sign, would probably take a deliberate and practical approach to thinking through problems, for example.

A house shows where or in what type of activity the planet focuses.

A planet in the sign it rules (domicile) is usually extra strong. So one's emotional nature (moon) would be strong when in its own sign of Cancer.

In modern astrology we tend to look at aspects. A well-aspected planet functions more efficiently and easily than one involved in squares and oppositions, for example. In traditional western astrology you'd look more at essential dignities (like terms, exaltation or fall, &c)

Consider that someone might be born with a chart showing a lot of intellectual promise, and then have a serious head injury as a young child. You might have two "time twins" raised in very different circumstances that affect the child's emotional and mental development.

A birth chart is not a biography, but an indicator of potential.

So far there's not much of a marriage between genetics and neuroscience with astrology.
Wouldn't a head injury or other modification of potential ('modification' used loosely...) also be indicated somewhere in the horoscope, and therefore the planetary placement remains a descriptor rather than indicator?

I don't mean to tread this into fatalism territory (otherwise I would have said 'determiner'), just trying to tease apart your view on the limits of interpretation within the context of Yony's question.
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  #9  
Unread 05-17-2019, 08:27 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapjacks View Post
I don't know if waybread has completely abandoned this thread, but I'd like to continue to pick her brains if she is inclined to oblige.



Wouldn't a head injury or other modification of potential ('modification' used loosely...) also be indicated somewhere in the horoscope, and therefore the planetary placement remains a descriptor rather than indicator?

I don't mean to tread this into fatalism territory (otherwise I would have said 'determiner'), just trying to tease apart your view on the limits of interpretation within the context of Yony's question.
If someone's moon (their emotions) is opposite their mercury (their mind) and they weren't born with a mental disease, you could say that both before and after they had the mental disease their mind was indeed at odds with their emotions.

This means no matter what, every natal configuration in our charts remains true, no matter how we change as people.
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  #10  
Unread 05-18-2019, 06:23 AM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post
If someone's moon (their emotions) is opposite their mercury (their mind) and they weren't born with a mental disease, you could say that both before and after they had the mental disease their mind was indeed at odds with their emotions.

This means no matter what, every natal configuration in our charts remains true, no matter how we change as people.
This is fascinating. My moon opposes my Mercury. That Ph. D. I got in 1977 must have been a fluke. What "mental disease" would you think I have?
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #11  
Unread 05-18-2019, 05:35 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

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This is fascinating. My moon opposes my Mercury. That Ph. D. I got in 1977 must have been a fluke. What "mental disease" would you think I have?
Not necessarily, you can still earn a PH. D. if you have a mental disease, it just can't be one of the most severe ones, those just make it impossible to think rationally and logically, so much so that speech is almost impossible for those who have it, a less severe mental disease is what you must have had if you even had a mental disease when you got the PH. D.

Still, you don't necessarily have to have a mental disease if your moon is opposite your mercury, it can just be that certain outside factors cause your emotions to be at odds with your mind/thinking. So you may not have even had a mental disease when you earned your PH. D.

Remember, every natal configuration a chart holder has always stands true to themselves, no matter how their life changes.
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Unread 05-18-2019, 06:20 AM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapjacks View Post
I don't know if waybread has completely abandoned this thread, but I'd like to continue to pick her brains if she is inclined to oblige.



Wouldn't a head injury or other modification of potential ('modification' used loosely...) also be indicated somewhere in the horoscope, and therefore the planetary placement remains a descriptor rather than indicator?

I don't mean to tread this into fatalism territory (otherwise I would have said 'determiner'), just trying to tease apart your view on the limits of interpretation within the context of Yony's question.
I think you could pick up a child's head injury by looking at transits and progressions for a young child. This process would turn a simple natal chart reading into a far more involved process, however, if you looked at transits and progressions over a lifetime, even for a young person.

Also, while you might pick up a "blow to the head" for someone at, say, age 3; in a blind chart reading (vs. a post-hoc reading for a known person) you might have difficulty in saying how it affected the person.

Sometimes the difficulties in a chart reading are not in tracking planetary movements, but are in correctly intuiting how they affected the individual.

Medical astrology is not an exact science. I was just looking at a medical horary on another forum, and the querent indicated a lifetime of trouble with her current condition. Yet the indicators seemed to suggest that it was temporary. Possibly the chart timing was off, which is something else to consider in making highly fatalistic readings of what might be erroneous data.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #13  
Unread 05-19-2019, 07:58 PM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think you could pick up a child's head injury by looking at transits and progressions for a young child. This process would turn a simple natal chart reading into a far more involved process, however, if you looked at transits and progressions over a lifetime, even for a young person.

Also, while you might pick up a "blow to the head" for someone at, say, age 3; in a blind chart reading (vs. a post-hoc reading for a known person) you might have difficulty in saying how it affected the person.

Sometimes the difficulties in a chart reading are not in tracking planetary movements, but are in correctly intuiting how they affected the individual.

Medical astrology is not an exact science. I was just looking at a medical horary on another forum, and the querent indicated a lifetime of trouble with her current condition. Yet the indicators seemed to suggest that it was temporary. Possibly the chart timing was off, which is something else to consider in making highly fatalistic readings of what might be erroneous data.
The configuration of the natal chart demonstrates the effects of the transits/progressions, and in that way, the natal would still also describe the types of events that might be experienced, however they manifest.

Perhaps a conflict between Moon and Mercury shows up as a childhood head injury that results in a dissociative illness, only later to be successfully treated, where the conflict will show up again as a estrangement between parents/children, etc. Like you said, there lies the real difficulty of interpretation.

In terms of potential, being a creative genius or what have you could be just as likely as the head injury according to the natal.

Last edited by Flapjacks; 05-19-2019 at 08:01 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 05-15-2019, 06:46 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

Each planet, including Moon and Mercury, is replete with meanings. Ten planets contain, in their symbolism, everything in the universe.

People don't really change much over the years. The basic self remains the same, dusted over with a patina of experience. If we don't change then the meanings of the astrological symbols don't change either.

My Moon and what it symbolizes is mine for life. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Unread 05-15-2019, 04:16 PM
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

No, you're not right. And I began studying astrology in 1972, long before you were born.

Funny thing, but you will get a lot smarter once you stop thinking you're so smart.
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  #16  
Unread 05-15-2019, 05:33 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Questions about the natal moon and mercury

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No, you're not right. And I began studying astrology in 1972, long before you were born.

Funny thing, but you will get a lot smarter once you stop thinking you're so smart.
How ironic
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