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Unread 10-08-2017, 02:05 PM
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Was there abuse as a child ?

I need some clarification on this as its such a delicate matter. Someone's asked me to do a chart as... (not going into detail) they have a gut feeling they were abused by their grandfather at a young age.

Im thinking its a YES and this is why....

Saturn/grandfather in 12th same degrees as venus moon's dispositor, moon in 5th, is 5th representing childhood here ?
Querent/jupiter is in 9th/grandchild 5th from 5th.

Ok let me stop here as im getting confused, im not 100% clear as to why moons in 5th ?

Can someone help me out here why moons in 5th house ?

And her mothers mars isn't she mars/venus with a moon TOL, so i need to know what venus is representing here L5 ?

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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

astro_2gw_grandfather__hr.47252.64579 (2).jpg

at least 10 characters.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 04:10 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

Saturn/grandfather and L1 jupiter have mutual reception.

L5 must be indicative of childhood, as this question was regarding when querent was a child, so this must be why moons posited in this house.

L5 dispositor venus is at an exact degree and min to Saturn, with saturn in a square to venus.

Moon's trine pluto/1st and also trines L5 venus.

Saturn in his house of joy, is this a good thing (in regards to the question) or not ?

Ive also added ceres and its @ 4,52 leo in the 8th house.

Because of everything i've picked up so far i'm still swaying towards a yes, so if anyone thinks i'm wrong then let me know.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 04:57 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I need some clarification on this as its such a delicate matter. Someone's asked me to do a chart as... (not going into detail) they have a gut feeling they were abused by their grandfather at a young age.

Im thinking its a YES and this is why....

Saturn/grandfather in 12th same degrees as venus moon's dispositor, moon in 5th, is 5th representing childhood here ?
Querent/jupiter is in 9th/grandchild 5th from 5th.

Ok let me stop here as im getting confused, im not 100% clear as to why moons in 5th ?

Can someone help me out here why moons in 5th house ?

And her mothers mars isn't she mars/venus with a moon TOL, so i need to know what venus is representing here L5 ?
I'm having a little difficulty underestanding some of your significations, so would it be okay if I asked you a few questions to get on the same page as you?
I see Jup is querent. Would you mind to share with me how you determined Saturn is grandfather. It is a maternal or paternal grandfather?
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Unread 10-08-2017, 05:02 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I'm having a little difficulty underestanding some of your significations, so would it be okay if I asked you a few questions to get on the same page as you?
I see Jup is querent. Would you mind to share with me how you determined Saturn is grandfather. It is a maternal or paternal grandfather?
Its mums father which would make him 4th from 10th (jupiter) but as querents already jupiter im using Saturn.

Btw i know you use whole signs, and even using whole signs (as i looked myself) it would still end up being jupiter. Also i thought Saturn was quite appropriate to use as the significator for the grandfather.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 05:16 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Its mums father which would make him 4th from 10th (jupiter) but as querents already jupiter im using Saturn.
Yes, I saw what you observed when using whole signs; it doesn't clarify the matter.
Okay, well, I think in an instance where querent and quesited have the same dispositor, then traditional horary employs the almuten for the quesited's house.
For such a very sensitive question, it would seem to be crucial to have the correct significator for the grandfather?
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Unread 10-08-2017, 05:36 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Yes, I saw what you observed when using whole signs; it doesn't clarify the matter.
Okay, well, I think in an instance where querent and quesited have the same dispositor, then traditional horary employs the almuten for the quesited's house.
For such a very sensitive question, it would seem to be crucial to have the correct significator for the grandfather?
How do i work out the almuten ?

But Saturn is the natural planetary ruler to signify older males, and dont you think its significant that saturns at the exact degree/min as moons dispositor venus ? these are all reasons why i was so sure of him being Saturn.

But yes its a very sensitive chart so getting the correct significators is crucial to the correct delineation...so can you help me work out the almuten ?
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Unread 10-08-2017, 06:26 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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How do i work out the almuten ?

But Saturn is the natural planetary ruler to signify older males, and dont you think its significant that saturns at the exact degree/min as moons dispositor venus ? these are all reasons why i was so sure of him being Saturn.

But yes its a very sensitive chart so getting the correct significators is crucial to the correct delineation...so can you help me work out the almuten ?
I wish I could help with determining the almuten, but I don't recall how to do it. Maybe another member more skilled will know or can recommend another alternative?

And, as neat the positional relationship between Saturn and the Moon's significator may be, I dont' see what role Moon's significator has in this question? Neither Moon's significator nor Saturn are actors in this chart's story.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 06:31 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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I wish I could help with determining the almuten, but I don't recall how to do it. Maybe another member more skilled will know or can recommend another alternative?

And, as neat the positional relationship between Saturn and the Moon's significator may be, I dont' see what role Moon's significator has in this question? Neither Moon's significator nor Saturn are actors in this chart's story.
install horary helper .. it has almuten calculations..
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Unread 10-08-2017, 06:33 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I wish I could help with determining the almuten, but I don't recall how to do it. Maybe another member more skilled will know or can recommend another alternative?

And, as neat the positional relationship between Saturn and the Moon's significator may be, I dont' see what role Moon's significator has in this question? Neither Moon's significator nor Saturn are actors in this chart's story.
Moons in the 5th house which im seeing as her childhood, dispositor being venus being exact with saturn, this must mean something here.

And im sure i should be using Saturn for him, and he's in the 12th house... it makes sense.

I don't know how to do almutens, i've never had to use them...but isn't this just confusing matters when we already have a quite an appropriate significator for him ?

In charts in the past i've used other planets as significators, without them being actual significators and im sure ive noticed others do this too.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 06:54 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

Chrys

almutens can be stronger than lords of the house.. I'd be paying attention to them esp if they are essentially stronger.. because they can flip an answer from yes to no and vice versa
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:03 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Chrys

almutens can be stronger than lords of the house.. I'd be paying attention to them esp if they are essentially stronger.. because they can flip an answer from yes to no and vice versa
How do i work it out though, ive never used them before.

And if grandfather is same significator as querent jupiter, then what am i working out the almuten for....grandfather ?

Saturn's not lord of a house, i just used saturn for him because saturn represents grandfathers.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:08 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

Almuten - planet with most essential dignity in that specific degree. You have Sag rising at 27.54. Day chart. Look at table of essiential dignities and work it out. Each planet at that degree gets points. Jupiter as sign ruler gets 5 points, exaltation if there is one gets 4, 3 for triplicity, 2 for term, 1 for face. Planet with most points is almuten. Looks like Jupiter is Almuten.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:14 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Almuten - planet with most essential dignity in that specific degree. You have Sag rising at 27.54. Day chart. Look at table of essiential dignities and work it out. Each planet at that degree gets points. Jupiter as sign ruler gets 5 points, exaltation if there is one gets 4, 3 for triplicity, 2 for term, 1 for face. Planet with most points is almuten. Looks like Jupiter is Almuten.
Okay thanks raf ill have to try and work this out.....

But if your saying it looks like its Jupiter, then this still doesn't help things as even without the almuten both querent and grandfather are jupiter anyway....this is why i used saturn for him.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:17 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

Oh actually looking at my table if im doing this correctly.....sag rising 27.54.

Saturn in the table is in up to 25 degree term and in 20-30 degree face. But then thats only 3 points....so it does look like it would be jupiter like you say.

But this can't work as querents jupiter.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:26 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

i have my doubts

here is why

jup and saturn are in mr sort of speak

jup is dignified

my answer is no
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:38 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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Oh actually looking at my table if im doing this correctly.....sag rising 27.54.

Saturn in the table is in up to 25 degree term and in 20-30 degree face. But then thats only 3 points....so it does look like it would be jupiter like you say.

But this can't work as querents jupiter.
No we look at essential dignity for the ASC degree, 27.54 Sag and which planets get most points for that degree in day chart. Saturn gets 1 point, as it has dignity by face only.

But Saturn can used as the grandpa, I guess. Mutual reception suggests great regard for each other, is that so? Saturn has squares with Mars/Venus which rule the 4/10th houses, the family houses. Does this grandpa have issues with the family members? we can get confirmation on what w see from the chart, then we can use Saturn with more confidence.

Personally though, I wouldn't want to answer this question, just don't want to open a can of worms...
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Unread 10-08-2017, 07:39 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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i have my doubts

here is why

jup and saturn are in mr sort of speak

jup is dignified

my answer is no
No way do i want this to be a yes btw, as much as im saying its a yes.....but Jupiters in a pitted degree here and with the mutual reception between saturn/jup, this i thought as being the yes.

If we are using saturn, he's in the 12th, isnt this another another sign ?

Saturn squares venus L5 "exactly" (children) house where moon is....its her childhood were asking about.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:06 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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No we look at essential dignity for the ASC degree, 27.54 Sag and which planets get most points for that degree in day chart. Saturn gets 1 point, as it has dignity by face only.

But Saturn can used as the grandpa, I guess. Mutual reception suggests great regard for each other, is that so? Saturn has squares with Mars/Venus which rule the 4/10th houses, the family houses. Does this grandpa have issues with the family members? we can get confirmation on what w see from the chart, then we can use Saturn with more confidence.
No not from what ive been told its not great regard, her hunches are telling her something went on for some reason...like a hunch feeling as having trouble being intimate/being in a r'ship and people touching her etc, the hunch is "i am always alerted in his presence" so wouldnt say this was great regard on her side.
I'll ask about family members as im not sure on this.
Quote:
Personally though, I wouldn't want to answer this question, just don't want to open a can of worms...
Hmm im thinking same actually now, its a very delicate area to be getting wrong.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:18 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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No way do i want this to be a yes btw, as much as im saying its a yes.....but Jupiters in a pitted degree here and with the mutual reception between saturn/jup, this i thought as being the yes.

If we are using saturn, he's in the 12th, isnt this another another sign ?

Saturn squares venus L5 "exactly" (children) house where moon is....its her childhood were asking about.
my answer is still no.. there is no abuse
jup is in critical deg .. this has been on the querent's mind for a long time
i am not seeing any abuse going on
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:29 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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install horary helper .. it has almuten calculations..
Thanks Tik!
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:38 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

There's no abuse going on now obviously its from way back, so far back she has no memories only hunches.

Well im not seeing an outright No here, there's things here that to me show a yes.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:41 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

Thanks all thats replied, i'm personally just going to leave this be, Rafs right it's too much this query to be giving a wrong answer.

I could say no and its a yes, i could say yes and its a no....both would have consequences.
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:41 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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There's no abuse going on now obviously its from way back, so far back she has no memories only hunches.

Well im not seeing an outright No here, there's things here that to me show a yes.
i am not seeing it at all.. you cant use 5th house to rpresent a querent
you can test it via rumor true or not
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Unread 10-08-2017, 08:52 PM
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Re: Was there abuse as a child ?

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i am not seeing it at all.. you cant use 5th house to rpresent a querent
you can test it via rumor true or not
But moons in 5th house, so obviously 5th house significator is significant.....esp being exact degree/min to saturn. and moons in an almost exact trine to venus.

And moon/venus join up to pluto in 1st.
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