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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #1  
Unread 10-12-2018, 04:33 PM
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13 Sign astrology

Some argue that 13 sign astrology is the right way and everyone else is doing it wrong. They'll say that any astrologer with astronomical knowledge will realize 13 is the way to go

As a novice and idiot, I have no arguments against that but that 12 sign works for me, helps me, and is something I find relation in. My argument would be that if it helps, it's 'right'

But I am interested in looking deeper and I know the people here aren't short of astronomical proficiency

So what are some valid arguments against those claims?

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Unread 10-12-2018, 04:51 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

Settle in for a bit of reading: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/13thsign.html
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Unread 10-13-2018, 02:23 AM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

I prefer to use Ophiuchus as a parazodiac, similar to Cetus, Orion and Sextans. My preference for the 12-sign zodiac is based on official astrological practice... however, the 4 parazodiac signs can affect some natal charts and horoscopes.
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Unread 10-13-2018, 04:23 AM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

The zodiac signs are just sections of the sky. It could be divided into 24 signs, or 100, or 1000!!

However you divide it, it doesn't matter because the planets and their placement in the heavens doesn't actually change.

You could split the Leo sign into two signs and call one half hoebag and the other lickme, but it nothing has changed. A planet in hoebag is just going to express what was originally the first half of leo.

So ya.
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Last edited by AppLeo; 10-13-2018 at 04:25 AM.
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Unread 10-13-2018, 04:32 AM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
The zodiac signs are just sections of the sky. It could be divided into 24 signs, or 100, or 1000!!

However you divide it, it doesn't matter because the planets and their placement in the heavens doesn't actually change.

You could split the Leo sign into two signs and call one half hoebag and the other lickme, but it nothing has changed. A planet in hoebag is just going to express what was originally the first half of leo.

So ya.
Would aspects change if we included hoebag and lickme into a 14 sign astrology? Dividing 360 degrees into 14 parts not necessarily equal as from what I've seen, the 13 sign astrology isn't in equal parts
That's what I wanna know. For me, aspects are very significant
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Unread 10-13-2018, 04:37 AM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

It seems to me aspects would be all the way ****** up so it does matter if were to include other signs
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Unread 10-13-2018, 10:53 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Would aspects change if we included hoebag and lickme into a 14 sign astrology? Dividing 360 degrees into 14 parts not necessarily equal as from what I've seen, the 13 sign astrology isn't in equal parts
That's what I wanna know. For me, aspects are very significant
IMO, aspects are independent of zodiac signs. Aspects are determined by the degree not because of the zodiac signs. If they were, we would be saying that a planet 29 degrees of Pisces is in conjunction to a planet 1 degree of Pisces.. thatís not really a conjunction. You could say they live in like the same building, but their apartments are complete opposites so they never see each other.
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Unread 10-13-2018, 11:07 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post


IMO, aspects are independent of zodiac signs. Aspects are determined by the degree not because of the zodiac signs. If they were, we would be saying that a planet 29 degrees of Pisces is in conjunction to a planet 1 degree of Pisces.. that’s not really a conjunction. You could say they live in like the same building, but their apartments are complete opposites so they never see each other.
Not all buildings are apartment buildings
there is more than one building on our planet
and more than one country
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Settle in for a bit of reading: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/13thsign.html
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Unread 10-13-2018, 11:09 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

Interesting. I see maths as also pertinent to astrology. I was never too good at trigonometry, but I understand degrees

The only anomaly in my chart(without looking at fixed stars and asteroids) is that I have BML in Aries trine my Cancer sun because my Cancer sun is at 29 degrees. I personally believe that's still an aspect because otherwise, the implication would be that as soon as we exist a sign, the energy just completely shifts, takes a 180, or a 60, or a 30. It seems like energy of the signs may flow into each other more which is why degrees are so important

I don't know if I'm making sense. I know there are some people on this forum very knowledgeable in astronomy and who probably understand the math portion better. I'd love their insight


I guess perhaps I don't believe there are actual houses, perhaps a circular living space with the energy at every single degree differing and so when we go from 29 degree Cancer to 0 degrees Leo, it's really not a huge jump at all
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Last edited by Lykanized; 10-13-2018 at 11:30 PM.
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Unread 10-13-2018, 11:14 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

I'm still confused as to how much would change if we did add other signs into the astrological model since I'm pretty dumb and am not a mathematical thinker. I may be able to understand it if I draw it out tho which I may do later on to get to the bottom of this
I haven't been able to find a chart calculator for this theoretical 13 sign astrological model
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Unread 10-17-2018, 12:45 AM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

Great topic! I was just thinking about this today.

Here is what I know about it:

1. Ophiuchus or at least the fixed stars in that constellation works in interpretations.

2. However, I have a 13 sign book and it makes no sense to me at all. Its way too simplified with simplistic knowledge of astrology. Whoever wrote it has no practical experience, just theoretical (a.k.a Useless). This a deep topic that is not simple to explore or delineate. At least the way things are presented are way too simplistic to be of any practical value whatsoever.

3. There's a ton of symbolism hidden in Ophiuchus. And the symbolism are prevalent in many ancient cultures around the world for it to be a coincidence. Sign wise, Libra was originally the claws of the constellation Scorpion and they were originally one sign separated into two. If you look at the actual constellations, Ophiuchus is on top of Scorpion and stepping on it with one foot. Who is to say it was not at an ancient time one constellation? We are talking about ancient star gazing and developments that happened a long time ago that we will never be privy to for sure.

For practical purposes, 13 sign bears little value in traditional or modern astrology. I personally wouldn't pay any attention to it or change the way things are done. But Oph (like asteroids, mansions and other more esoteric topics) adds another facet yet unexplored within the constellation of Scorpion (and to a certain extent early Sag).

Last edited by GemwDepth; 10-17-2018 at 01:15 AM.
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Unread 10-17-2018, 02:42 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

The math would become unmanageable. A chart is a circle, 360 degrees. 360 divided by 12 is a nice even 30 degrees. 360 divided by 13 is 27.6923076923.

Decans would no longer exist. The 29th degree would cease to be.
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Unread 12-12-2018, 11:38 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Some argue that 13 sign astrology is the right way and everyone else is doing it wrong. They'll say that any astrologer with astronomical knowledge will realize 13 is the way to go

As a novice and idiot, I have no arguments against that but that 12 sign works for me, helps me, and is something I find relation in. My argument would be that if it helps, it's 'right'

But I am interested in looking deeper and I know the people here aren't short of astronomical proficiency

So what are some valid arguments against those claims?

The biggest argument is that astrology really has little or nothing to do with the constellations of the zodiac.It has to do with the ecliptic, and the relationships of the earth and the planets. The constellations are just landmarks on that path that we have used to name the 12 equal territories on the path. They just happened to be on the path when astrology was formulated, but they are not the path itself. And just as a landmark might disappear on earthly path over time, the actual longitude and latitude of the path remains the same. For instance, down the road from my home is a farm called GreenWillow Farm. It got that name for huge willow tress that at one time lined the road at its gate. Those trees have died and are now gone but we still call it GreenWillow Farm. Its still the same place.


Astrology is an expression of the sacred geometry that unifies reality. That geometry has not changed because the constellations have appeared to have shifted some what over the eons. Aries is the first 30 degrees of the zodiac, no matter what constellations happens to move into the sky behind this first 30 degrees of the ecliptic. It's first because it happens when the equinox occurs to mark a beginning point. Twelve has always been a special number in metaphysics because of its unique ability to be divided equally by 2, 3, 4, and 6. and because it is made up of 1 and 2 - 1 implies wholeness or unity and two implies duality or opposition etc. there is much written about the symbolism of these numbers if you care to research that.



It is obvious that the constellations of Aries or Cancer etc. did not get their names because the looked like a Ram and a Crab. Aries probably got its name because ancients people noticed that those born in that first 30 degree segment behaved like a Ram. And those born under the fourth 30 degree segment of the great circle acted like a crab. A different constellation could appear in the first 30 degrees of the ecliptic tomorrow and it would change astrology not one bit. If the stars in one of the smaller constellations suddenly burnt out and the constellation disappeared it would not change astrology one bit.We would still have 12 equal divisions along the ecliptic where we see the planets , Sun and Moon travel.



So the belief that astrology works because some named constellation that is sitting way behind the ecliptic has some metaphysical power by virtue of what it happens to be named is a notion held by people who usually know very little about a astrology. It's probably not the case - In fact I am certain it is not.



So that a 13th constellation has entered the backdrop behind the ecliptic due to the precession of the equinoxes has changed nothing unless you believe it is a handful of constellations that are the underlying unifying metaphysical substrate of the cosmos and not the primary mathematical and geometric relationships and essences that are expressed in numbers.
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  #14  
Unread 12-16-2018, 05:37 PM
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Re: 13 Sign astrology

The sidereal constellations were approximations, not strict; the division of 12/360 though was exact.

It's very unlikely to conceive this Ophiocus theory would have made sense to Ancients; and in Tropical the constellations are already out of position.

Symbolically, however, I see that it could bring relevance, but it's difficult to find a logical way to interpret a new constellation on a system that used approximative constellations - or consider a later switch to ecliptic with the new constellation appearing when the ancient ones are already mixed!

On India/China they divided the sky in 28, India adopted the 12/360 adapting to 27 Nakshatras.
The cleverness of Jyotish thinkers it is that once babylonians made 1/360 near the Sun movement in 1 day, 1/27 is near the Moon movement on 1 day...
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Last edited by aldebaran; 12-20-2018 at 12:02 AM.
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