People don't believe I'm a Libran - I'm astrologically confused!

I have always experienced an astrological identity crisis...I was born on 22 October, so I'm on the Libra/Scorpio cusp but I have several of my major planets in Scorpio. So I don't know what to really call myself - A Libran or a Scorpion.

Many people have told me I'm not a 'real Libran' whatever that is. When I was growing up, one of my aunts refused to accept I was a Libran and would say to me 'You're a Scorpion' whenever I was naughty.

I personally feel like a Libran, except where sex is concerned, I'm a Scorpion vixen.
What do you reckon I should see myself as - Libra or Scorpio. Also, when filling in love compatability forms - should I be selecting Libra or Scorpio?

My dob is 22 October 1978, 12.30am, London, England

Planetary positions:
Sun Libra 28°12'42 in house 4 direct
Moon Cancer 5°51'54 in house 11 direct
Mercury Scorpio 12°03'45 in house 4 direct
Venus Scorpio 22°30'58 in house 4 retrograde
Mars Scorpio 22°06'52 in house 4 direct
Jupiter Leo 7°09'15 in house 12 direct
Saturn Virgo 10°29'04 in house 2 direct
Uranus Scorpio 15°34'43 in house 4 direct
Neptune Sagittarius 16°20'20 in house 5 direct
Pluto Libra 17°03'36 in house 3 direct
True Node Virgo 26°16'11 in house 3 retrograde


Thanks

Daisy

Daisy, Your sun is in Libra. No doubt about it. But sun sign astrology is somewhat flawed. Its probably a good example of how not to stereotype ourselves.
You have a stellium in Scorpio.This may influence how you are perceived by others.
Cheers,
Lilly

Daisy, Libras are often perceived as very social, easy going peacemakers, balanced, agreeable, open and generally pleasant to deal with.

In your case planets are concentrated below the horizon; Sun, that is also the ruler of the Acs, and four-planet Scorpio cluster are in the 4th - I assume you are not a very open and outgoing person. Your Moon is in Cancer and is also comfortable when invisible. All in all, you have lots of water - emotions that don't always show. I believe you are not "true" Libra because you tend to be more secretive and emotionally intense than Libras "should be".

Another thing is that your Sun is in a very late degree of Libra. "Old" Sun is wise and does not need to express itself in each and every instance as its sign suggests.

I have Sun in late Virgo, four planets in Libra and a planet in each of the Water signs. I stereotyped myself as a sober, down to earth and not too emotional being without a hint of intuition. And then wondered why I was so uncomfortable

Woah. You're a powerhouse with that Venus conj. Mars in Scorpio. [deleted possibly offensive comment] Anyway, you aren't just your Sun sign. You have to count the houses, planets, signs, aspects, etc. Compatibility between two people has more to do than Sun signs. You should be doing a synastry chart between you and your lover. It covers all your planets, not just the Sun.

Daisyd said:

I personally feel like a Libran, except where sex is concerned, I'm a Scorpion vixen. What do you reckon I should see myself as - Libra or Scorpio.

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You sound like a typical Libra/Leo-rising to me.

You might think yourself a vixen, but that has nothing to do with Scorpio. Although you have 4 planets in the 4th House, there's no stellium, just a two planet Venus/Mars conjunction, like some nuns have.

The vixen thing would be the ruler of your 5th House in the 12th and the ruler of the 8th in the 5th. And no, Jupiter does not trine Neptune, not if you're a vixen. Astrodienst isn't the best place to do charts. There's lots of freeware you can do charts and upload. If you use astrodienst, you have to understand that their minds are differently twisted and you have to always watch the orbs for aspects.You should recast your chart and when you do, look for this:

Reduce/increase orbs (0-150%): _____ (%)

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and put -60 in the box (minus 60). That will give you proper orbs so that you can really see what's going on. That's kind of important, actually for you, it is very, very important since you have a bowl chart and you really need to learn to use that energy properly and to do that, you need to know what planets are aspecting which planets and points.

Just wondering if you being understood about who you truly feel be attributed to your mercury rx?
My father is a Libra Sun, with a Scorpio stellium and though he feels very Libran people don't see it either LOL .

Hi Daisy,
You have four planets posited in scorpio between 12 and 22 degrees. That's a stellium.(mercury/Uranus/Venus/Mars)
Bob: if you think I'm using too wide an orb I will just remind you I am following William Lilly who used orbs of 12 degrees.You are free to use whatever orb you like but I prefer using Traditional methods.(and Orbs)
Cheers, Lillyjgc

Hi Daisy,

Well, you do have a Libran Sun, but that's about it, as far as your personal planets go. That *Libra* Sun (basic personality) is soon over-shadowed by your Scorpion (intense, deep, focused and rather determined) way of thinking and communicating (Mercury), your Scorpion values and ways of approaching and relating to others (Venus) and your Scorpion way of acting (ie action) and doing things (Mars). Another thing that is important to consider when you talk about how you usually come across to others (at least in the first go) is your Ascendant, and you have a Leo Asc, which means that you take on the Leo style when you set foot outside your doorstep, so to speak, which would be dignified, confident, friendly, yet sometimes perhaps appearing to be a bit arrogant or bossy to some people (take it coming from a Leo rising).

aquarius7000

I am a big fan of looking at house-cusp rulers. Your sun is in Libra in the 4th house, with Venus as its planetary ruler. So Venus's position in your chart will have a lot to say about how and in what domain of life your sun [identity] operates. Venus is in Scorpio--also in the 4th house.

If we expand this bicycle tour of your chart a bit more widely, I note that you have Leo rising. So your chart-ruler is the sun--which gets us back to your Venus in Scorpio.

Then one thing that happens with a stellium in a particular sign, if we look at other house-cusp rulers that have a lot to say about your different domains of life, is that a number of them wind up in Scorpio in your 4th house--thus reinforcing its significance.

Vixen? I dunno. You're 30 years old. You can keep up this persona for a while, but not for the rest of your life. With both your Mars and Venus in Scorpio, it probably is a better bet than Libra. You also have your moon (emotional needs) in Cancer, another water sign. But compatibility is based upon important factors in addition to the the "good in bed" part.

With such a strong 4th house concentration, you may be a real homebody.

Daisy,

Your chart is absolutely amazing to me because it is the perfect copy of my ex-boyfriend's chart - only the degrees are different. He was born on 22 October 1978 - in a different country, though! I don't know his exact time of birth, so I will never know where the houses begin and end but the sign placements are the same.

I couldn't believe he was a Libra, either - there was so much of the Scorpio thing about him and yet he was the most peace-loving guy in the world. Different people may handle the same energy pattern differently, though, and I wonder how other people have experienced the same.

Regards,
Yuliana

Well, in a progressed chart you will be Libra till you are about 2 years old, and then appear more a Scorpio. I personally believe that if you are born under a Sun sign Libra, then your Sun Sign is Libra and that's it. And it's not even at a critical degree. What you appear to others is a separate story, and yes, with a bunch of planets in Scorpio you're likely to appear Scorpian as well. The answer to the question "What am I?" (which may seem insignificant at first glance, but which is quite important in building one's identity) depends on how you phrase it. "What Sun sigh am I?" gets the answer "Libra". "What sign am I really?" I guess no astrologer can give you an answer, as no one has all planets in one sign, so everyone feels the energies of many signs. And just to remind you, the old texts say everyone is all 12 signs. It's just that some are more pronounced than others.

As I was saying on another forum about this subject, I was born on 22 October 1979, with my Sun at 28.5 Libra. I am not a Libra though, but a tried and true Scorpio. My first house Scorpio stellium (Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Uranus) combined with Pluto being conjunct my Sun and Ascendant pretty much decide the issue. Additionally, 2x many water planets in my chart than air, fire, or earth and I have 5 fixed planets, so Scorpio turns up again.

I think that it's funny because the entire thread is based on an indecision based on astrological identity: what could be more Libra-like than that? I think, that as many others have said, it all depends on where the energy is and how one handles it: FEEL the energy, don't think about it!

Hello you are a Libran Sun for sure. You have heavy Scorpionic influence no doubt about it. You are "Scorpionic" as the way to describe yourself but with a Libra Sun. I have an 8th house stellium. Scorpio on the MC and heavily aspected Pluto. SOme perceive me as being Scorpionic although I have a Leo Sun. So others will perceive you the way they will.

lillyjgc said:

Hi Daisy,
You have four planets posited in scorpio between 12 and 22 degrees. That's a stellium.(mercury/Uranus/Venus/Mars)
Bob: if you think I'm using too wide an orb I will just remind you I am following William Lilly who used orbs of 12 degrees.You are free to use whatever orb you like but I prefer using Traditional methods.(and Orbs)
Cheers, Lillyjgc

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I wouldnt use any more than 9 degrees and only for the Sun and Moon. 12 degrees is way too wide especially for conjunctions by the very nature of which is tightness.

Polo said:

Woah. You're a powerhouse with that Venus conj. Mars in Scorpio. [deleted possibly offensive comment] Anyway, you aren't just your Sun sign. You have to count the houses, planets, signs, aspects, etc. Compatibility between two people has more to do than Sun signs. You should be doing a synastry chart between you and your lover. It covers all your planets, not just the Sun.

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Yes very Scorpionic especially with ruler of the Sun there. I would do a composite chart rather of your relationships. Very telling. Synastry is very contradictory and can be confusing but it does give you insights, no doubt about it.

Scorpio80 said:

Just wondering if you being understood about who you truly feel be attributed to your mercury rx?
My father is a Libra Sun, with a Scorpio stellium and though he feels very Libran people don't see it either LOL .

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Well as a man he would be tapping into his Sun sign easily. However if his Sun ruler i.e. Venus, is in Scorpio then really he is very "Scorpionic".

Claire19 said:

Hello you are a Libran Sun for sure. You have heavy Scorpionic influence no doubt about it. You are "Scorpionic" as the way to describe yourself but with a Libra Sun. I have an 8th house stellium. Scorpio on the MC and heavily aspected Pluto. SOme perceive me as being Scorpionic although I have a Leo Sun. So others will perceive you the way they will.

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Claire,

I have never put much stock in only looking at Sun signs, as I don't think that are a very good indicator of personality, etc. My fiancee is another very good example: she has 4 planets in Scorpio (Sun, Mercury, Saturn, and Pluto) and 4 planets in Sagittarius (Moon, Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune). She acts much more like a Sagittarius than a Scorpio, primarily because the Sag planets are in the 4th house and the Scorp planets are in the 3rd house, which is another step in showing how important angular houses are.

Personally, I don't care how others perceive me as it's my self-perceptions that truly count: I know who I am, others don't, and I won't be giving away my secrets anytime soon!

Claire19 said:

Yes very Scorpionic especially with ruler of the Sun there. I would do a composite chart rather of your relationships. Very telling. Synastry is very contradictory and can be confusing but it does give you insights, no doubt about it.

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I find composite charts are good for looking at how two people function as a couple but for the insight and accuracy of a multifaceted chart reading I go for synastry everytime. It can show those very particular aspects that can make or break a normally compatable couple.

Plutonian Persona said:

Claire,

I have never put much stock in only looking at Sun signs, as I don't think that are a very good indicator of personality, etc. My fiancee is another very good example: she has 4 planets in Scorpio (Sun, Mercury, Saturn, and Pluto) and 4 planets in Sagittarius (Moon, Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune). She acts much more like a Sagittarius than a Scorpio, primarily because the Sag planets are in the 4th house and the Scorp planets are in the 3rd house, which is another step in showing how important angular houses are.

Personally, I don't care how others perceive me as it's my self-perceptions that truly count: I know who I am, others don't, and I won't be giving away my secrets anytime soon!

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The sun has the strongest influence in our natal chart. It is the portal through which our celestial nature shines. It is the meat upon which our celestial stew is built. (oh I like that one *makes mental note*)
Anyway...back to the topic at hand. The outer planets; uranus, neptune and pluto have generational effects so can hardly be considered as diviners of personality. In their aspecting and housing they flavour what is already in the natives chart. As to whether a Libra with a whole bunch of scorpion thrown in is actually scorpion by nature depends on strength and rulership. If the sun is weak and placed in a cadent house then naturally its effects will be somewhat diminished but never gone. Your fiances sag nature is probably due to jupiter being in rulership, this would be especially so if jupiter were placed very close to the asc or if the asc were ruled by jupiter.

There I go again, too intense for my own good. Anyway, I should also note that my entire chart is deposited by my Scorpio Venus, which only strengthens that sign's influence over me.

My sun is in a strong position, in the first house and also conjunct the ascendant, so I'm not totally discounting it's influence. Yet, except for being a very aesthetic person, I don't fit the descriptions of Libra at all: I'm not social, indecisive, or whine because life is unfair. Instead, I'm very introverted, make fixed decisions, and use my determination to get through life. Also, I'm an intensity junkie who either scares people off and makes them extremely uncomfortable in my presence because I see life in black and white. The latter drives most people absolutely crazy. So, like I was saying in my first post: I consider myself a Scorpio and that's what truly counts; swimming against the tide is a good thing!