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  #1  
Unread 07-23-2016, 09:52 PM
Mj66 Mj66 is offline
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Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Who can calm my nerves about Donald trump?...He's high strung, a showboat and seemingly insincere with his Mercury/Neptune. Since it's looks like he'll end up winning the election...what can we expect with this guy?
Thanks,
Maria

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  #2  
Unread 07-23-2016, 10:21 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

mj, since you've posted this on an astrology board, rather than on one of the non-astrological political threads, I'll post Donald Trump's chart.

It is a powerful chart, as DT was born on the day of an eclipse and has Regulus and Mars conjunct his ascendant. It also looks to me like the chart of someone who is constantly changing and (sun-Uranus opposite moon) and needing to reinvent himself.

I personally don't think he will win the election, but there is some probability on it. I've looked at both candidates' charts, including a lot of prognostication methods for election day and the date the Electoral College meets.

Clearly Clinton has a lot of work to do to shore up her campaign and public image, but the polls are pretty close, she is actually getting support from moderate Republicans, international economists, and national security experts.

Not everyone is angry out there, at least not angry enough to vote for Trump.
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Last edited by waybread; 07-23-2016 at 10:24 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 07-24-2016, 02:32 AM
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back to astrology

All,

I deleted the non-astrological posts.

Astrology only,

Tim
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  #4  
Unread 07-24-2016, 01:46 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Waybread. Thank you...I knew I saw something in the guy that wasn't right. Moon square Uranus...YIKES!
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Unread 07-24-2016, 09:32 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Donald Trump's birth time is known. Hillary Clinton's is not. However, her "best guess birth time is 8:02 am. Note that Clinton has a very difficult chart, with those Scorpio-Leo squares. It reminds me of the saying, "Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Whatever else people might say about her, I think most would describe her as a strong woman. Due to the late degree rising, it makes a difference whether we cast her chart in Placidus or whole signs house systems.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #6  
Unread 07-29-2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mj66 View Post
Who can calm my nerves about Donald trump?...He's high strung, a showboat and seemingly insincere with his Mercury/Neptune. Since it's looks like he'll end up winning the election...what can we expect with this guy?
Thanks,
Maria
I suggest you do a synastry with your own chart and Trump's chart. Could all just be projections.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 06:45 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Trump's sun-Uranus-NN conjunction in the 10th suggests someone who identifies (sun) with sudden change (Uranus) and pursuing his individual growth (NN.) There is a close opposition from his moon. Generally the moon is interpreted as one of the less stable planets because of its rapid movement between signs and changing phases. With moon opposite Uranus (sudden change) you can get a lot of emotional (moon) instability (Uranus.)

Also, Mercury square Neptune could be the visionary, but this isn't such a happy aspect.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 07:24 PM
Mj66 Mj66 is offline
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

I have Mercury square Neptune in my chart. This isn't the best chart for a national leader is it? He just scares me, maybe it's the moon/Uranus vibe.
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  #9  
Unread 07-29-2016, 07:50 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Mj66, you might find these articles of interest, by the man who ghost-wrote Trump's book The Art of the Deal.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/28/donald...tony-schwartz/

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...iter-tells-all

From the Fortune article:

"He has such a short attention span that he was, in my experience, unable to retain much information about any subject because he couldn’t pay attention for long enough to do that. It’s reflected in the severe limits of his vocabulary, the elementary nature of the sentences that he speaks, the lack of specificity he gives about anything he would do as President."

To me this seems precisely like sun conjunct Uranus opposite moon and Mercury square Neptune-- spoken by a non-astrologer.

Neptune can be the visionary, but Neptune can also erase or dissolve what it touches. It doesn't deal in reality. The squares and oppositions are liable to be more troublesome than the trines. So I am concerned about a man whose watery (emotional) thinking and speaking habits (Mercury) are squaring a planet (Neptune) that doesn't deal in reality. Mercury also squares Jupiter, a planet based more in optimism than in reality.

From Schwartz in The New Yorker article,

"More than anyone else I have ever met, Trump has the ability to convince himself that whatever he is saying at any given moment is true, or sort of true, or at least ought to be true.” Often, Schwartz said, the lies that Trump told him were about money—“how much he had paid for something, or what a building he owned was worth, or how much one of his casinos was earning when it was actually on its way to bankruptcy.”

This sounds like Mercury square Neptune and Jupiter to me.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 07-29-2016 at 07:59 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 07-29-2016, 08:12 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

In a political leader's chart, sometimes it is useful to read it as a mundane chart. In mundane astrology, the 4th house and the moon represent "the people." Trump's 4th house moon should be good for a caring president, but opposed by Uranus, this moon has a lot of instability in Trump's personal life.

To quote from the ghost writer interviewed in The New Yorker article that I linked in my previous post,

"People are dispensable and disposable in Trump’s world.” If Trump is elected President, [Schwartz] warned, “the millions of people who voted for him and believe that he represents their interests will learn what anyone who deals closely with him already knows—that he couldn’t care less about them.”
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #11  
Unread 07-29-2016, 08:21 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Fascinated that so many of his supporters are so one dimensional and don't see this.
Thanks to you both for that valuable input. Maria
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  #12  
Unread 07-30-2016, 05:17 AM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mj66 View Post
I have Mercury square Neptune in my chart. This isn't the best chart for a national leader is it? He just scares me, maybe it's the moon/Uranus vibe.
You said that you suffer from acute depression and anxiety in general. That means you are at the extreme lower end of the emotional scale which is synonymous with feeling powerless and worthless. Trump obviously is full of self-esteem and high energy which means he is on the extreme upper end of the emotional scale which is synonymous with feeling self-empowered and self-worthy. So, of course you'll find him annoying and frightening as you would find anyone else who's not feeling as powerless and worthless as you are feeling. In that sense, Trump is an indicator for you. He shows you how you are doing. Someone feeling worthy and in control of his/her life would never feel afraid of anyone else, not even Trump.
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  #13  
Unread 07-30-2016, 03:56 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

I do, but Trump doesn't keep me up at night kind of anxiety. I just think he's a sociopath. Part and parcel of narcissism and he's erratic in thought and speech. But maybe it's all in my head. I've never liked the man over the past 30 years. I can't believe he made it this far in the presidential race.
Thanks.
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Unread 07-30-2016, 09:05 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

muchacho, you cannot do a pop-psych analysis of someone simply because she is worried about the possibility of Trump winning the election. Increasing numbers of national security analysts and military brass have also come out in opposition to a Trump presidency. You cannot argue that all of the millions of people who oppose Trump have some kind of psychological problem.

Muchacho, we might as well analyse your chart for symptoms of hero worship. Trump seriously appeals to people, mostly working class white males, who feel they have lost respect and that Trump can restore it.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-want-respect

I agree, Mj66, that Trump has serious flaws as a candidate, and I have no major Mercury-Neptune contacts unless you count a very wide (10 degree orb) trine. Trump does have the square, and Sanders does.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #15  
Unread 07-31-2016, 06:18 AM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Waybread, did you ever look at your synastry chart with Trump? Your aversion to anything Trump related may be more subjective than you think.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 05:43 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mj66 View Post
Hi,
I took a peek, but couldn't readily find your article. What can you summarize for me?
thanks,
Maria
Hi how are you. If you type either one's name in the search box they will come up.

Hillary is a Scorpio 12th houser
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Unread 07-31-2016, 06:04 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

I think she has generalised about aspects to make it fit in her mind as to why Trump wouldn't be a good leader or President. I have Moon opposite Uranus, and I am not a sociopath. I can be moody, but it doesn't affect my work life - it is definitely more present in my home life. My moon/Uranus opposition is in 4/10 like Trump and mine is Gemini/Sag. I think that's such a stupid generalisation.

I do agree with the Mercury/Neptune square. My husband has this and I swear he will tell a lie and it's like he actually believes what he is saying is true. It drives me insane. I think having Mercury in a water sign like Pisces of Cancer also isn't the best for thinking as clearly since they tend to process things quite emotionally. So I can see why Trump fires off knee-jerk reaction tweets like a butt-hurt child on the playground.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 06:40 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

SO what if Hillary has that? I get there are hard aspects to her chart. Trump's chart isn't so pretty either.

Here's an excerpt written in regard to truth:

A few days ago we presented the top ten most honest and dishonest American politicians, based on my analysis of rating by the Pulitzer-Prize winning news site PolitiFact.com. I am utterly astounded at how many Conservative readers ranted and raved, either against the veracity of the list or that no amount of evidence will change their minds that the two people they hate most in the world, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, rank among the top ten most honest politicians.

I make no apology for being a bleeding heart liberal. But I’m also a scientist, and I know that any data-based conclusions I make have to be reproducible. The data have to be publicly available and trustworthy. That’s why I turned to PolitiFact in the first place. They give a painstakingly exhaustive presentation of the fact-checking involved in each and every one of their ratings. It is all open source, available for anyone and everyone to read and verify for themselves. And they don’t hold back.

THE DATA.
Donald Trump has a total of 202 statements rated by PolitiFact as of July 25, 2016. Only 14 statements predate his campaign announcement of June 16, 2015. In other words, they have a very complete record of his political statements as a Presidential candidate.

Hillary Clinton has a total of 225 statements rated as of July 25, 2016. Her file starts on Aug. 1, 2007, and therefore covers two candidacies and her time as Secretary of State. In other words, they have a very complete record of her political statements as a Presidential candidate and government official.

Below are the percentages of their statements that were rated in each of six categories: Pants-on-Fire lie, False, Mostly False, Half True, Mostly True, True. You can verify the numbers for yourself with the links above.

Clinton vs Trump Truth

PolitiFact isn’t the only group keeping tabs on honesty. They are just the easiest one to search, by construction, as opposed to The Washington Post and FactCheck.org, both of whom are quite reliable, but want you to read their analyses (to get ad revenue). But the results don’t change. For example, in a July 15 news analysis of 52 Trump claims versus 32 of Clinton’s, they rated a whopping 63% of Trump’s statements as false and only 14% from Clinton.

TRUMP IS A LIAR. CLINTON IS NOT.
However you figure it, Donald Trump consistently rates in the top 5 biggest liars of the 3,390 people and organizations that PolitFact has tracked. He added another lie in the time it took me to write this. The conclusion is inescapable: Trump is a voracious liar. On the other hand, Clinton always places in the top 10 for honesty. Out of a sample of 3,390!

Those aren’t my opinions, by the way, nor my beliefs or convictions or the way I want the world to work. Look, I didn’t want Clinton to be the Democratic nominee. I actually supported Martin O’Malley. So I’m not writing this as an ardent Clinton supporter. I grab the data, I analyze it, I report it. Trump is a liar. Clinton is not.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THAT CLINTON IS BASICALLY HONEST?
Doesn’t it seem just a little odd that it is overwhelmingly Trump – our current liar-in-chief – who calls Clinton crooked and dishonest? He’s a marketing genius. How else do you rip off so many people for so much money such a long career? Well, it’s working. The latest CNN poll has 68% of respondents saying Clinton isn’t honest and trustworthy.

There are loads of news analyses on why that is the case, which mostly boil down to people disproportionally fixating on the small number of lies that Clinton told, while essentially brushing all of Trump’s under the rug as inconsequential. They insist that Clinton’s few scandals are more damning than Trump’s many. It seems that people want Clinton to be a liar, and really don’t care that Trump actually is one.



SMART PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
For years, the entire medical community dogmatically insisted that ulcers were caused by stress. They treated the acid, the ulcers subsided, but usually came back. Two Australian upstarts named Robin Warren and Barry Marshall went against established convention when their research showed ulcers came from the bacteria Heliobacter pylori. No one believed them. “I don’t care what they say, ulcers are caused by lifestyle” the medical community responded. To prove it, Marshall actually infected himself with the bacteria, gave himself a massive ulcer, and cured it with antibiotics. The medical community realized it was wrong; doctors changed their mind. The duo won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2005.

You know what makes a person smart? It doesn’t matter whether or where you went to school. GPA, SAT, GRE, MCAT, JD, MBA, MD, Ph.D., FRS, MENSA, Nobel Prizes be damned. Smart people listen to evidence, think critically, and change their mind when that evidence shows they are wrong. If it weren’t for smart people, you’d be living in the dark ages instead of reading this on your smartphone.



In the face of overwhelming evidence, there is nothing noble about dogmatic stubbornness. Do you hate Hillary Clinton? More power to you. But you can’t buy Trump’s bogus claim that she’s “perhaps the most dishonest person to have ever run for the presidency.” You certainly can’t go repeating it.

Not convinced? Look your mother, your sister, your daughter in the eye, and tell her “I’ve just been shown the evidence that Trump is the biggest liar in current American politics, and Hillary Clinton is one of the most honest, and I refuse to accept it.”



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  #19  
Unread 07-31-2016, 07:25 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Trump is far, far worse than Clinton on the honesty front. That should be evident from looking at the facts.

But I guess his lies (everything from 'Obama is a Kenyan muslim' to Trump University (multiple lawsuits still pending) are - ok?

I'm curious as to the double standard being applied here.
Who is worse is based on opinion. My opinion is I would rather vote for The Donald than Hillary. I am entitled to have my own opinion, as this is 'Murica! I find people like you kind of amusing - it's like you get your panties all in a twist if people don't agree with your perspective. Just let it lay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
it looks like hillary clinton has found her teflon pad at ACF.

a party of three - questionable who are actually americans.

you go grrrls.

haven't seen any astrology for a bit.
You have a point with lack of astrology.

In terms of Astrology - Hillary has Mercury Rx conjunct Venus in detriment also squaring Saturn. So not too good on the communication front. Also, the possible Pisces moon wouldn't really be beneficial for Presidency, nor would anything Aries (since we don't know her birth time, we really don't know her moon for certain). I was reading something a while ago that stated that Aries placements are statistically the lowest for any US president. Apparently Americans are not into the Ram as their leaders.

Oh and let me be nice. Her strength would probably be her Scorpio stellium and her Mars/Pluto conjunction giving her a ton of determination. I personally have a Mars/Pluto conjunction and I can be rather relentless myself.
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Last edited by anjelik; 07-31-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 08:07 PM
Mj66 Mj66 is offline
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Let's just all agree to disagree and on that note, let's talk about Trump's moon/sun sign profile...for the sake of astrology.

From a non biased source:

Sun in Gemini/Moon in Sagittarius:
Hired Gun
Your enthusiasm, perception and creativity are awesome in scope. All of this would be
terrific if it were not for the fact that it is so much work for you to keep yourself in tune.
There to blow up your dreams is a lack of patience and good sense combined with
needless rebellion and wastefulness. You hate to be restricted in any form because
you love freedom. Classrooms, mundane jobs and other things you regard as
drudgery are avoided. You want to find out what life really is and experience
everything, no matter what mistakes you have made before. You are an explorer and
consequently can either be a genius who makes great discoveries or be like a Fool in
the Tarot deck. There is an inspired person in you, but also someone who is impulsive
and immature. At times, when you wake up, it is almost as though you are seeing your
world with new eyes. You might experience extremely bad luck or even a personal
disaster but you always remain an optimist. Your glass is always at the very least, half
full. Part of this is because of your short memory. You are about twenty people in
terms of your projects and interests. Conforming to anything or being a part of the
establishment in not for you. You are a rebel. The exotic and exciting continue to call
you and because you are so impulsive, you do not mind dropping something you were
engrossed in and moving on. What you need to learn is to concentrate and develop
self-discipline. An environment that is conducive to this would help you; one that is
structured and organized. You can learn to direct your skill in a useful way and still be
a vagabond. Try to be around organized and well-directed people to reduce your
gullibility. Capricorns, Virgos and Taurus people might be very good for you in that
regard. Fellow Gemini and Sagittarians are not. You must ease up on restlessness
and get organized. If you do not do this, you will have a life of disasters mixed in with
all your adventures and the mishaps that go with them. Some like it that way and
maybe that is you. Philosophers, academics and inventive scientists can come from
this combination. If you manage to get some self-control and will power, you can do
anything.
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  #21  
Unread 07-31-2016, 08:16 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

What is your conclusion of Donald Trump based off of this unbiased source?
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  #22  
Unread 07-31-2016, 11:15 PM
Mj66 Mj66 is offline
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

I conclude he acts first and asks questions later. In his impulsiveness he makes empty promises to get the desired reaction he needs at that time. Don't expect any follow through from this guy.
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  #23  
Unread 07-31-2016, 11:16 PM
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

Conspiracy theorist, what would you make of that unbiased source's information?
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Unread 07-31-2016, 11:16 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Waybread, did you ever look at your synastry chart with Trump? Your aversion to anything Trump related may be more subjective than you think.
Actually, my synastry with Trump is pretty good. It's a lot better than my synastry with Clinton's chart, thanks to her Scorpio emphasis. I have a strong Aquarius-Leo axis, so Trump's Gemini-Sag axis is a decent match.

But I don't think we want to reduce presidential elections to synastry when, to me, someone's experience and positions on various issues are a lot more important than their personalities. I mean, I could suggest that you must have rotten synastry with Clinton....

Today I watched part of George Stephanopoulos's interview with Trump, and really thought I saw that Mars conjunct ascendant from the 12th house coming through: very aggressive-- some would say, very tough. At some level, the DC symbolizes the "not me" or "other" point in the horoscope. It's the house of open enemies as well as partners of various sorts. Trump's DC has Aquarius on the cusp, modernly ruled by Uranus, which gets us into that volatile sun-Uranus-NN opposite moon loop.

Mars sextiling sun-Uranus-NN shows a lot of excitement (sextile, esp. w/ Uranus involved) in aggression (Mars) but It's unclear whether Trump's Mars has the brakes on it necessary for calm reflection.
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Last edited by waybread; 07-31-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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  #25  
Unread 07-31-2016, 11:39 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Hillary Versus Donald...why don't I trust Donald?

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Originally Posted by Mj66 View Post
I conclude he acts first and asks questions later. In his impulsiveness he makes empty promises to get the desired reaction he needs at that time. Don't expect any follow through from this guy.
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I am not sure that there is no follow through. He has Taurus on the MC and the MC ruler, Venus, is conjunct Saturn in the 11th. So there is some stability there, in my opinion. And that might be seen by all of the projects he has successfully completed.

Also, that Gemini/Sag opposition has a powerful sextile/trine outlet to Mars in Leo at the Ascendant. I don't see Mars in Leo as empty promises. I see it as perhaps over reaching g or over promising at times, but enthusiastic and ambitious as well.
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