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  #1  
Unread 11-18-2015, 12:15 AM
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what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

i use astro.com
i generally use the default one, but was wondering if anyone found any of the others ones to be more accuret?

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Unread 11-18-2015, 12:16 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

SORRY...i meant house system
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Unread 11-18-2015, 12:18 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wowreally View Post

i use astro.com
i generally use the default one,
but was wondering if anyone found any of the others ones to be more accuret?
It is simply a matter of personal choice/preference

astro.com offers a selection of fourteen house systems on EXTENDED CHART SELECTION PAGE

each astrologer has their particular personal choice, which varies, dependent on individual opinion
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Unread 11-18-2015, 12:24 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
It is simply a matter of personal choice/preference

astro.com offers a selection of fourteen house systems on EXTENDED CHART SELECTION PAGE

each astrologer has their particular personal choice, which varies, dependent on individual opinion
i know how to use astro.com, i specifically mentioned it in my post. i also know it's a matter of opinion.
i was just hoping people would share their experiances

and maybe the online thing is making me interpret things incorrectly, but i'm finding your replys very conesending.
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Unread 11-18-2015, 12:35 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wowreally View Post

i know how to use astro.com, i specifically mentioned it in my post.
i also know it's a matter of opinion.
i was just hoping people would share their experiances
OK
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowreally View Post


and maybe the online thing is making me interpret things incorrectly,
I suppose you mean the online astro.com interpretations
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowreally View Post

but i'm finding your replys very conesending.
That's fine
nevertheless
how you find my replies
is not my responsibility
I'm simply stating my opinion
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Unread 11-18-2015, 02:07 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

The default house system at Astrodienst is called the Placidus house system, and it is favoured by many because of its sensitivity to timing. Traditional astrologers generally prefer the whole signs house system. The equal house system seems favoured by many British astrologers, possibly because quadrant house systems like Placidus can get very skewed at high latitudes. Many horary astrologers think Regiomontanus houses give the best results.

Your call.
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  #7  
Unread 11-18-2015, 04:30 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Hi Waybread,
When they use whole signs, do they apply sideral zodiac like in Vedic astrology, or do they use whole signs with geocentric?
Thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
The default house system at Astrodienst is called the Placidus house system, and it is favoured by many because of its sensitivity to timing. Traditional astrologers generally prefer the whole signs house system. The equal house system seems favoured by many British astrologers, possibly because quadrant house systems like Placidus can get very skewed at high latitudes. Many horary astrologers think Regiomontanus houses give the best results.

Your call.
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  #8  
Unread 11-18-2015, 06:18 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Traditional western astrologers who use the whole signs house system all use the tropical zodiac, so far as I know.

"Geocentric" means "earth-centered," and pretty much all astrological systems do that, even though today we know the earth and planets circle the sun. From our position on the earth's surface, it still looks like the planets, sun, and moon circle the earth.

"sidereal" = star-based. Sidereal signs don't exactly overlap with the constellations (which are of varying widths,) but they're reasonable close.

"tropical" = sun-based, where the spring equinox is always set to 0 degrees Aries.
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  #9  
Unread 11-18-2015, 02:28 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

In my personal charts, and horary, I use whole signs. My Placidus charts are very close to whole signs, so the switch was effortless. I also switched from tropical to sidereal once I started studying the sky and saw where the planets were. I felt like I had been lied to for a long time.

Then I began studying Vedic astrology.
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  #10  
Unread 11-18-2015, 02:38 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Neither tropical nor sidereal will show you exactly where the planets are in the sky. They both use 30 degree demarcations (the signs), that don't match the constellations the signs were named for. I'm pretty sure nobody's lied about this.

The tropical zodiac ties its vernal point to the spring equinox, so that the signs are firmly set to the seasons. There are a few ayanamshas in sidereal that are used, but the sidereal vernal point is fixed usually somewhere between 23-27 degrees before the tropical one. Siderealists do not split up the signs into different numbers of degrees to try to match them to the actual constellations.

The difference is a philosophical one, is all, and both systems can and do work.
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  #11  
Unread 11-20-2015, 02:56 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

I find that equal works best for me, because unlike whole signs a planet can be in a house that's not ruled by the sign it's under, and unlike placidus every house is the same width.
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  #12  
Unread 11-20-2015, 05:14 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

i use the one over at astro.com, but i use the astrodienst with aspects to the asc and mc. i find it to be more accurate for me. however, i don't know if anyone has noticed the 150% default on their orbs. I think that's way too strong of an aspect and I think a stretch. So i will drop it down to either 100 or 75%.

but I agree, it's definitely about preference and what you're looking for.
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Unread 11-20-2015, 06:37 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

.actually, oddity - when I was looking at the planets, I saw that each planet was in the various signs according to the sidereal zodiac. Ie Saturn in Scorpio, Neptune in Aquarius, Uranus in Pisces.
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Unread 11-20-2015, 07:31 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duenderoja View Post
.actually, oddity - when I was looking at the planets, I saw that each planet was in the various signs according to the sidereal zodiac. Ie Saturn in Scorpio, Neptune in Aquarius, Uranus in Pisces.
The tropical zodiac will show you exactly the same thing - except some of the planets will be in different signs.

In order to make a zodiac truly constellational, you'd have some signs with 20 degrees, other with 40 degrees, and all kinds of in-between, because some constellations are far larger than others. The constellations do not run 30 degrees each. The signs do. Both zodiacs are based on the signs, they just put the Aries point in a different place.
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Unread 11-20-2015, 09:40 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

I am NOT talking about math. I am talking about telescopes.
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  #16  
Unread 11-20-2015, 10:37 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

I use placidus but have read about sri pati and like the concept and would like to learn more so u could confidently draw them myself with this system. Aa fie aspects drawn on computers and their orbs. I always double check and aspect myself based on the degrees given.
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  #17  
Unread 11-21-2015, 08:31 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
It is simply a matter of personal choice/preference

astro.com offers a selection of fourteen house systems on EXTENDED CHART SELECTION PAGE

each astrologer has their particular personal choice, which varies, dependent on individual opinion
So what's your opinion??
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  #18  
Unread 11-21-2015, 08:34 AM
Kernowerno Kernowerno is offline
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
OK

I suppose you mean the online astro.com interpretations

That's fine
nevertheless
how you find my replies
is not my responsibility
I'm simply stating my opinion
No you're not! You're stating your opinion without stating your opinion. It's called sitting on the fence. And he's right, you do come across as condescending. Try typing without 'bold', and actually answer the question, or just don't bother.
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  #19  
Unread 11-21-2015, 08:59 AM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
The default house system at Astrodienst is called the Placidus house system, and it is favoured by many because of its sensitivity to timing. Traditional astrologers generally prefer the whole signs house system. The equal house system seems favoured by many British astrologers, possibly because quadrant house systems like Placidus can get very skewed at high latitudes. Many horary astrologers think Regiomontanus houses give the best results.

Your call.
I've always used the placidus system, simply because I think geography must have a bearing on the nature of one's unfolding karma/life. Rudolf Steiner speaks very unequivocally about the specific influences of geographical environment on our souls/psychology/karma etc. I guess maybe I feel that a house being enlarged or diminished is a reflection of the degree of influence of that house, which is reflected in the 'real world' by the fact that a person is born here or there. This leads onto the next point.
I strongly feel that a planet falling into one house or another must be critical and decisive, and profoundly important, so having a 'selection' of house systems seems to be severely at odds with what astrology means to do. Surely we have been working with planets, signs and houses for long enough now to know with absolute certainty that if planets fall in certain houses, they must reflect specific and irrefutable qualities that override any aspects or modifying influences from other planets/bodies/points etc, and as such, should have clarified by now whether or when placidus, equal house or whole sign house systems are applicable or not.

I must say that if astrology is to consider itself a 'science' - which I believe it must do - astrologers really should be finding agreement on which house systems are the most effective, albeit some may be considered to function more effectively for differing purposes e.g. horary vs natal etc, or we'll forever be at odds with each other, and rightfully be branded a pseudo-science or a superstition by outside observers.
The fact that astrologers 'know' astrology is a working and reliable system is of no consequence to those who would venture in from outside, and be put off by the seemingly illogical applications of random rules and systems. Not that that should matter per se, just as physicists have no responsibility to placate artists for example, however there is a certain responsibility on our parts to be clear for astrology's sake.
I have no idea which system applies with absolute certainty, so I can only venture an opinion, like most of us here, and for me Placidus has served me well enough. A lifetime of experience will hopefully inform a rounded view in each of our cases, and perhaps those experiences will some day lead to a settled house system we can all agree upon.

Last edited by Kernowerno; 11-21-2015 at 09:09 AM. Reason: clarification, what else???
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Unread 11-21-2015, 03:05 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
No you're not! You're stating your opinion without stating your opinion. It's called sitting on the fence. And he's right, you do come across as condescending. Try typing without 'bold', and actually answer the question, or just don't bother.
What, if this kind of typing and answering is already an expression of an opinion? I'd say there is nothing insulting intended, not as far as I can read or sense.
We are all different in thoughts, understanding and expression, and shouldn't we exercise some freedom and tolerance to this fact here in the forum?

Just my opinion
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  #21  
Unread 11-21-2015, 03:39 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oleanna View Post

What, if this kind of typing and answering is already an expression of an opinion?
I'd say there is nothing insulting intended, not as far as I can read or sense.

We are all different in thoughts, understanding and expression,
and shouldn't we exercise some freedom and tolerance to this fact here in the forum?

Just my opinion
Well said

by the way
for greater clarity:

How to use Whole Signs as Originally Intended
as advised by dr. farr

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts)
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something

and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.
And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications

Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events,
the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems


But now notice this:

in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp)
for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,

viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-
that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:

-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions,
timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing (and other) delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century

-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:

-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?


Well, whole sign did all that, for me,
so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out,
I would say: try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...
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  #22  
Unread 11-21-2015, 04:06 PM
dowhanawi dowhanawi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernowerno View Post
I've always used the placidus system, simply because I think geography must have a bearing on the nature of one's unfolding karma/life. Rudolf Steiner speaks very unequivocally about the specific influences of geographical environment on our souls/psychology/karma etc. I guess maybe I feel that a house being enlarged or diminished is a reflection of the degree of influence of that house, which is reflected in the 'real world' by the fact that a person is born here or there. This leads onto the next point.
I strongly feel that a planet falling into one house or another must be critical and decisive, and profoundly important, so having a 'selection' of house systems seems to be severely at odds with what astrology means to do. Surely we have been working with planets, signs and houses for long enough now to know with absolute certainty that if planets fall in certain houses, they must reflect specific and irrefutable qualities that override any aspects or modifying influences from other planets/bodies/points etc, and as such, should have clarified by now whether or when placidus, equal house or whole sign house systems are applicable or not.

I must say that if astrology is to consider itself a 'science' - which I believe it must do - astrologers really should be finding agreement on which house systems are the most effective, albeit some may be considered to function more effectively for differing purposes e.g. horary vs natal etc, or we'll forever be at odds with each other, and rightfully be branded a pseudo-science or a superstition by outside observers.
The fact that astrologers 'know' astrology is a working and reliable system is of no consequence to those who would venture in from outside, and be put off by the seemingly illogical applications of random rules and systems. Not that that should matter per se, just as physicists have no responsibility to placate artists for example, however there is a certain responsibility on our parts to be clear for astrology's sake.
I have no idea which system applies with absolute certainty, so I can only venture an opinion, like most of us here, and for me Placidus has served me well enough. A lifetime of experience will hopefully inform a rounded view in each of our cases, and perhaps those experiences will some day lead to a settled house system we can all agree upon.
Your science point is an interesting one, but even on science they make new findings and work from multiple theories. I have a friend with a PhD in astronomy and he does astrology (although he keeps that info to friends aa the astronomy community isn't open to it lol). He and I have some good talks on theory. Just something to think about. And always good to have a favorite theory that makes the most sense to you.
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  #23  
Unread 11-22-2015, 04:15 PM
Arena Arena is offline
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

I've found dr. farr's notes on the matter very useful. But I must also say that since I got to know western sidereal astrology I find the houses become less and less important. What matters most in western sidereal astrology is angularity, meaning it really is mostly defined by ASC/DSC and MC/IC and the planets that are close to those axis as well as the EP-WP axis (the square aspect to MC) and Zenith-Nadir (square to ASC).

The planets that fall near those (0-5degr) are those that will have the biggest impact and they have their own expressions as planets and will express themselves according to the angle they come close to. This is true for natal charts, relocated charts as well as solar returns and lunar returns.
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Unread 11-22-2015, 10:55 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arena View Post
I've found dr. farr's notes on the matter very useful. But I must also say that since I got to know western sidereal astrology I find the houses become less and less important. What matters most in western sidereal astrology is angularity, meaning it really is mostly defined by ASC/DSC and MC/IC and the planets that are close to those axis as well as the EP-WP axis (the square aspect to MC) and Zenith-Nadir (square to ASC).

The planets that fall near those (0-5degr) are those that will have the biggest impact and they have their own expressions as planets and will express themselves according to the angle they come close to. This is true for natal charts, relocated charts as well as solar returns and lunar returns.
Hey Arena,
Do you know what happened to Dr. Farr?
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  #25  
Unread 11-22-2015, 11:16 PM
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Re: what chart style have you found to be most accuret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Time View Post

Hey Arena,
Do you know what happened to Dr. Farr?
Dr. Farr posted the following comment 15 July 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

(*can such a Saturn transit activate a condition of ill health?

In my chart, Saturn is a potent planet, both for good and for ill;
without going into details at this time, let me mention that Saturn in Scorpio FOR ME
-that is, in my own chart-is indicated as a most - transit:
during this same Saturn transit of Scorpio,
I received an injury to my right foot, which later became septic
and which required amputation of the foot at the ankle {June 25, 2014}

While I'll be getting a prosthetic foot over the next couple of months
which will allow pretty normal walking,
nonetheless I consider the loss of my right foot as connected with the Saturn transit of Scorpio,
due to the confluence of indications regarding Saturn and Scorpio in my own specific chart

...So, YES, I believe that certain transits of Saturn CAN influence serious affections of health
under the right confluence of susceptibilities as shown in a given natal chart,
and I believe that the current Saturn transit of Scorpio has a special affinity for the OP
due to the OP's natal Lot of Chronic Illness being in Scorpio, and in the OP's natal first house)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Thanks for the condolences!
The analysis of the Saturn/Scorpio transit influences in my chart
in connection with the injury, septic condition and final amputation of the foot,
is an interesting illustration of astro-medical causal effects,
which I will post (as a seperate thread) in the near future.

Best wishes regarding your own health problem!
(Remember considering alternative health sources, such as naturopathy, homeopathy, herbal therapy, Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine, for help:
unfortunately, although a homeopathic doctor myself,
I did not address my own foot condition early on
-since it seemed so superficial-with the proper remedies,
and then-it was too late!!
Another influence here of Saturn
-this being an example of the negligence which can be an influence of that planet!)
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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