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  #1  
Unread 01-25-2014, 02:37 PM
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Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

Hello,
I am facing transiting Pluto recently (in the 6th house) conjunct my natal Saturn & Neptune.
A few weeks ago I felt empowered, working out everyday, taking care of myself-nutrition, meeting new people over holidays, learning new things. It almost felt as if I was re-building my self & life.

Now after a sudden loss of a beloved person, who I admired a lot, I feel incredibly lost, in the sense of trying so hard to achieve dreams that constantly move further away...This old idea of "one step at a time" that has always been my philosophy doesn't seem applicable under present circumstances. The question to what extent can really a transiting Pluto affect your psychology?Is there anything that can help?

p.s I made a similar question regarding losses in the thread "Pluto transits" (started by sb else) but felt to ask in a different thread under "read my chart" would get more specific answers.

Thank you all for checking this post!
Best wishes
T

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Last edited by TamaraL; 07-07-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 05:40 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

I think your problem is that it is also conjunct your Neptune and sesquiquadrate your Jupiter in the 11th. Saturn conjunct Neptune indicates that much of your foundation is illusory, built of sticks and spit. Pluto transiting this is showing your foundation for what it really is. Sesquiquad your Jupiter is also showing you where your current thoughts and beliefs have led you astray; where what society thinks you should do is now in conflict to what you THOUGHT you believed and finding out to not be the case - i.e. society is mostly full of cr@p. The sixth house is where we serve others - the 12th is where we serve ourselves. You perhaps thought you were doing good works in certain areas, and finding out much of it was a waste of time. TR Pluto is also quintile your Node now - time to find out what your strengths really are, and where they can serve YOU as well as others. A doctor has to eat and pay rent too. TR Neptune is crossing your Node so much of your current world is going to pass away and you are going to have to develop a new one, based on what YOU believe and not what others TELL YOU to believe. TR Chiron is sextile your Saturn and Neptune so you are going to have to do some soul searching, clearing up past hurts, bucking up, and getting over them. Other people are gone but there you still are. TR Uranus is right on your MC so now is when these things will be blasted in your face to deal with. This is all fated timing - time to REALLY grow up.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 06:34 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

Thank you so much mdinaz for your interpretation.
I couldn't describe it better myself :

" ..where what society thinks you should do is now in conflict to what you THOUGHT you believed and finding out to not be the case."

Always did what I believed was challenging & transformative for my case, never cared about society's opinion really.
But when you study (undergrad ) for more than 5-6 years afterwards you evaluate how useful, how much of your time-money-effort-endless nights of projects were really worth it ?? So yes its 50/50 can't say it was all ****, because it wasn't...but it wasn't what I thought it would be. Only through real-life jobs you can prove yourself & thats what I am pursing now..& real relationships as well (because in college, we tend to meet people of the same field & we don't really choose our friends sometimes, like really selecting them)..

So I hope this is accurate: " On top of that This is all fated timing - time to REALLY grow up" because thats I am been trying to do for sooo long..only I had the delusion it was gonna come from college& peers but it actually comes from living in the real world. I am embracing change (mentally) its psychologically that it is exhausting..Hate to complain, although it looks like it..Thanks once again this is so accurate!
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Last edited by TamaraL; 02-21-2014 at 06:38 PM.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 06:55 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Originally Posted by TamaraL View Post
Always did what I believed was challenging & transformative for my case, never cared about society's opinion really.
Society still affects us in ways we don't even realize the influence.


Quote:
But when you study (undergrad & grad one after the other) for more than 5-6 years afterwards you evaluate how useful, how much of your time-money-effort-endless nights of projects were really worth it ?? So yes its 50/50 can't say it was all ****, because it wasn't...but it wasn't what I thought it would be. Only through real-life jobs you can prove yourself & thats what I am pursing now..& real relationships as well (because in college, we tend to meet people of the same field & we don't really choose our friends sometimes, like really selecting them)..
College life is really fantasy land for most people - you deal with nothing but people of the same age, the same field, the same opinions, etc. Once you've been far from home making a living and being amongst people of many ages and backgrounds does the "real" world come into focus. And what we study in school is seldom what we actually do in real life in many cases. My career now is not the field I studied in college.


Quote:
So I hope this is accurate: " On top of that This is all fated timing - time to REALLY grow up" because thats I am been trying to do for sooo long..only I had the delusion it was gonna come from college& peers but it actually comes from living in the real world. I am embracing change (mentally) its psychologically that it is exhausting..Hate to complain, although it looks like it..Thanks once again this is so accurate!
See "college fantasy-land above". College is too insular for real growth - you grow in being exposed to different ideas and concepts (ostensibly), but isn't until you work and deal with people from all walks of life and start to apply those ideas and concepts do you really "grow up" - theoretical ideas are great fun, no so much when your rent is a month late, you can't deal with the range of personalities at work, you have drunks and criminals for neighbors, only a jar of mustard and mayo in the fridge, and so on.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 08:25 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Society still affects us in ways we don't even realize the influence.


Yes you are right..of course it affects us, I 'd like to believe that I grew in an open-minded family..
On the other hand theres a nice quote from V.Woolf: “Growing up is losing some illusions, in order to acquire others.”

College life is really fantasy land for most people - you deal with nothing but people of the same age, the same field, the same opinions, etc. Once you've been far from home making a living and being amongst people of many ages and backgrounds does the "real" world come into focus. And what we study in school is seldom what we actually do in real life in many cases. My career now is not the field I studied in college.

Yes..again so true..in every word.God, I feel so guilty for believing in all these things...college, project "distinctions", grants...I thought I was declaring my independence when I got funding for the full course.LOL such a naive person...Neptunian child I guess Neptune is strong in my chart...I hope my studies are at least relevant with my career.


See "college fantasy-land above". College is too insular for real growth - you grow in being exposed to different ideas and concepts (ostensibly), but isn't until you work and deal with people from all walks of life and start to apply those ideas and concepts do you really "grow up" - theoretical ideas are great fun, no so much when your rent is a month late, you can't deal with the range of personalities at work, you have drunks and criminals for neighbors, only a jar of mustard and mayo in the fridge, and so on.[/QUOTE]

...Exactly.. the silly thing about me is that I could foresee that "I need to get out there, & expose myself" I was "older" than most of my fellow students but still so inexperienced in other ways in order to find balance. I prefer reality because despite the so many injustices there's something "fair" about it...You can't be innovative if you don't work hard & love what you do...while in college it can be "work hard" & "my parents told me to study this".
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Last edited by TamaraL; 02-21-2014 at 06:43 PM.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

Definitely, Pluto can have profound impacts on our psychology, as the planet relates to the subconscious promptings of the Soul. It is about surviving adversity and losses, and having the will to rise again from the ashes. Note that Saturn also is leaving a transit to your natal Pluto, for a double whammy; a reinforcement, so to speak. Indeed deaths come to us all, and the ending of cycles are necessary for our further development and growth. The only thing that helps is an increase in your awareness and acceptance of death as a cycle of life itself. It certainly gives a jolt to your sense of reality when it touches you; this will be a time for you to be altering your beliefs and fears from the past; strengthen your Soul to avoid becoming depressed over it;
on the collective level, Pluto is tearing down all things that stand in the way of progress and development, to make way for resurrection and restructuring of the life. The only real choice is whether to allow this to victimize you through paralysis, or become the victor over the emotional angst and sense of loss and confusion this can create...time for replenishing the garden of your Soul.

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Unread 01-25-2014, 09:15 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Originally Posted by TamaraL View Post
Yes..again so true..in every word.God, I feel so guilty for believing in all these things...college, project "distinctions", scholarships...I thought I was declaring my independence when I got a scholarship.LOL such a naive person...Neptunian child I guess Neptune is strong in my chart...I hope my career is at least relevant with my career.
I think most college professors are the reason for this reality-disconnect: none of them have been in the real world either. They went from college to college teaching and have never been outside the academic experience. Thus kids come out of college thinking they know everything because their professors said so - and discover little of it is real.

Quote:
...Exactly.. the silly thing about me is that I could foresee that "I need to get out there, & expose myself" I was "older" than most of my fellow students but still so inexperienced in other ways in order to find balance. I prefer reality because despite the so many injustices there's something "fair" about it...You can't be innovative if you don't work hard & love what you do...while in college it can be "work hard" & "my parents told me to study this".

My college experience was a little different as I was: 1) a bit older, not starting until I was 24 and 2) had already spent six years in the military and had been all over the world and 3) went to a technical college rather than your typical academic college. Many of the people I went to school with were also older, many quite a bit older, so there was no frat-house party atmosphere. Almost everyone there had full time jobs and were paying for it themselves. However in my work experience I did find myself working with people who had just come out of academic college and at an earlier age, so I was faced up front with the fantasy-land illusions they carried with them into their first jobs and really found it quite baffling as I could not relate to them at all, even though they were roughly my age.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 09:16 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Originally Posted by kimbermoon View Post
Definitely, Pluto can have profound impacts on our psychology, as the planet relates to the subconscious promptings of the Soul. It is about surviving adversity and losses, and having the will to rise again from the ashes. Note that Saturn also is leaving a transit to your natal Pluto, for a double whammy; a reinforcement, so to speak. Indeed deaths come to us all, and the ending of cycles are necessary for our further development and growth. The only thing that helps is an increase in your awareness and acceptance of death as a cycle of life itself. It certainly gives a jolt to your sense of reality when it touches you; this will be a time for you to be altering your beliefs and fears from the past; strengthen your Soul to avoid becoming depressed over it;
on the collective level, Pluto is tearing down all things that stand in the way of progress and development, to make way for resurrection and restructuring of the life. The only real choice is whether to allow this to victimize you through paralysis, or become the victor over the emotional angst and sense of loss and confusion this can create...time for replenishing the garden of your Soul.

I 've no idea why death has become a taboo in modern society, grieving the end of a life, of a cycle, of an era is an opportunity to re-consider everything that (you thought) you knew...(losing someone) it killed (temporarily) my ego & made me really hug, with my whole soul some people...I 've discovered I am not really prone to serious depression & also I trying to practice yoga as much as possible. (1-2 hour daily) It does strengthen body & soul. Thank you for your post !
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Unread 01-25-2014, 10:30 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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I think most college professors are the reason for this reality-disconnect: none of them have been in the real world either. They went from college to college teaching and have never been outside the academic experience. Thus kids come out of college thinking they know everything because their professors said so - and discover little of it is real.




My college experience was a little different as I was: 1) a bit older, not starting until I was 24 and 2) had already spent six years in the military and had been all over the world and 3) went to a technical college rather than your typical academic college. Many of the people I went to school with were also older, many quite a bit older, so there was no frat-house party atmosphere. Almost everyone there had full time jobs and were paying for it themselves. However in my work experience I did find myself working with people who had just come out of academic college and at an earlier age, so I was faced up front with the fantasy-land illusions they carried with them into their first jobs and really found it quite baffling as I could not relate to them at all, even though they were roughly my age.
Yes teaching used to be kind of a safe "solution" for some college-university professors..but now its has changed because many people have phd's or other final degrees & so many people are "qualified to teach" so its not a safe option anymore...But especially in the arts most professors are only teachers & not practicing artists so yes...they don't know how to evaluate art through their opinions.(only through academic criteria) Many people "loose" their opinions within the university context...scary..You were lucky that you were older.It helps...I started at 17 & finished last year, so I was dealing with teens who had never worked in a real job atmosphere (myself being the same..to be fair..) but also met interesting people (like me :P)In art-related jobs its a bit silly because you are trying so hard to study something that cannot be "studied" but can only be practiced ...age is also very subjective...
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Unread 01-25-2014, 10:42 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

One thing you may consider why it expressed in this manner. As modern ruler Pluto rules your natal 5th house of creativity, sport, fun and self expression, while Saturn rules your natal 7th and the traditional ruler of 8th, your personal experience of Mortality through the death of your close relation. While Neptune is the modern ruler of the higher philosphy the question/awareness of God, and the conscious level of spirituality and again ruler of your Sun that is your essence of life again. Then you could consider my way of thinking as the transiting Saturn is also in Scorpio mutual reception with Pluto in Capricorn. Since these all occurring in the 6th house, nutrition, your health, your daily tasks.

According to Sophia Mason, in her book, From One House to Another. Your natal 7th house is the house of a female's grandmother which is her 1st house living in your chart. Therefore your natal 6th would be the derived house of her 12th.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 11:18 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

With derived house method, since the 7th is the first of your grandmother (if the death was your grandmother or the like), then your 2nd house is her 8th house, which is Leo cusp, then your own Sun in Pisces as the lord, his ruler Neptune in Capricorn was triggered by Pluto partile conjunction when Pluto was at 11 degrees 50 Capricorn, that would be the first step of manifestation but can be felt within approximate 3 degree conjunction + or -.

Pluto was at 11 degrees 49 Capricorn on the 17th of January as per Ephemeris by astrodienst as per GMT, at 11 degrees 51 Capricorn on 18th January.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 11:21 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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It makes sense since 6th house is connected with nutrition, work (employment), health..so there's mutual reception
I "ll have to check that book...I am sorry if I confused you I wasn't blood-related with the person I lost. She was my Godmother, so I am not sure which House can represent...
(I also lost my paternal godparent in October thats I mentioned somewhere something about 2 losses during Pluto transits, but could be a coincidence)
Thank you poyi
Yer I remember she was your Godmother, I guess as per relationship closeness and the age differences? Not sure myself. But by principles, Godmother will have equal or slight above your own mother's status so could be the same as Grandmother. Also to consider you saying your admiration, do you think psychologically and the feeling of lost more like losing a blood related Grandmother?

In October 2013 Pluto would be around 9 degrees Capricorn.
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Unread 01-25-2014, 11:49 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Yer I remember she was your Godmother, I guess as per relationship closeness and the age differences? Not sure myself. But by principles, Godmother will have equal or slight above your own mother's status so could be the same as Grandmother. Also to consider you saying your admiration, do you think psychologically and the feeling of lost more like losing a blood related Grandmother?

In October 2013 Pluto would be around 9 degrees Capricorn.
We had 36 year age difference but she loved me as her own daughter (she didn't have a real daughter) & I loved her as a second mom. So considering the fact that my own mom called-consider her a sister, she was literally like a close blood-related aunt. (She was almost same age as my mom, they were best friends)
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Unread 01-26-2014, 01:00 AM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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We had 36 year age difference but she loved me as her own daughter (she didn't have a real daughter) & I loved her as a second mom. So considering the fact that my own mom called-consider her a sister, she was literally like a close blood-related aunt. (She was almost same age as my mom, they were best friends)
Hmm the tricky part is which sibling. In derived house system, the second sibling of your mother in a female chart, is your natal 2nd house, then the third sibling is 4th house etc. BUT Aunts and Uncles on the mother's side in a female chart is your natal 12th house.

So that is Gemini Cusp that is the 1st house of your Godmother, then your 7th house is her 8th house, so Saturn as the ruler of the natal 7th (as her 8th) therefore still activated by the partile conjunct on the 17th-18th January by Pluto. When did she pass away?
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Unread 01-26-2014, 07:35 AM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

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Hmm the tricky part is which sibling. In derived house system, the second sibling of your mother in a female chart, is your natal 2nd house, then the third sibling is 4th house etc. BUT Aunts and Uncles on the mother's side in a female chart is your natal 12th house.

So that is Gemini Cusp that is the 1st house of your Godmother, then your 7th house is her 8th house, so Saturn as the ruler of the natal 7th (as her 8th) therefore still activated by the partile conjunct on the 17th-18th January by Pluto. When did she pass away?
I am sending you a PM with the date!
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Last edited by TamaraL; 02-21-2014 at 07:02 PM.
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Unread 01-26-2014, 07:55 AM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

Thank you for the information. This is an enlightenment. There is no death and there is no birth. Our moment of birth as someone else death vice versa. The moment we laugh as someone else grief. Both happiness and sorrow exsiting as once and must exsit as once. There is no beginning and there is no end. The wheel continue to run continuously in both directions in order to maintain balance in harmony. When we look at life and time in large, both happiness and sorrow do not last. The beauty of forever changing.

Our own chart is the measurement of our consciousness as collective consciousness also subconscious/unconscious in lower scale and larger scale for the collective. Even the news we saw the way we feel about a news even it was never happened to me in person but in the very slight fragment also living within me therefore I felt what I felt. In secret no one is totally alone and indeed we lived as one as one very large organism which is why everything is connected.

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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:41 PM
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Re: Can transiting Pluto conjunct Saturn mess up everything you had "build" ?

My own experience of Pluto conjunct Saturn was the year following the exact alignment while it was still hovering within a 1.5 degree orb. I went thru privations of money and had my lower back go out. I could have made myself dependent on my parents, but I fought to stay independent and lived a lean existence. Others I know who went thru it got rid of things they didn't need and accepted more austere lifestyles. My guru, who was born a year or so after me, fasted and lost weight and her appearance changed.
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