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  #1  
Unread 01-29-2014, 11:43 AM
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Uranus rules Aquarius

Thats my conclusion after Readingpsychologist Herman Meyer astrology book only available in German.
He shows na exemple of a woman with gemini rising with Mercury in aquarius,just like me.Hers is in 10th mine in 9th.
The final dispositor of her and my chart is Uranus in 4th.
The woman lived with her parents til age 37, they gave her everything and she felt expected to fullfill their expectations.Only when Herman gave her a Reading did she started changing her life.she got married and moved home.
Im 52 and ,appart from a few attempts to settle abroad,I still live in my parents home. But my Uranus is retrogade making things harder,and is opposite Moon in 10 increasing the attachment to mum and conflict betwen staying home with mum and wanting Independence.
Saturn as ruler of aquarius in 9th rulibg 9th couldnt explain all this.

Herman also talks about house being cause and ruler position the effect.Most people make the mistake of focusing on the effect.
So,a woman with cappy in 9th and Saturn in 2 had low self worth or esteem,and was poor due to lacking a degree.
To show us how they feed each other, he says she tried later to enroll for university but lacking Money(2nd house) she couldnt afford it which feed her low self worth. Eventually she began to study on her own from books which helped increase her self worth.

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Unread 01-29-2014, 12:40 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

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Originally Posted by socrates View Post
Thats my conclusion after Readingpsychologist Herman Meyer astrology book only available in German.
He shows na exemple of a woman with gemini rising with Mercury in aquarius,just like me.Hers is in 10th mine in 9th.
The final dispositor of her and my chart is Uranus in 4th.
The woman lived with her parents til age 37, they gave her everything and she felt expected to fullfill their expectations.Only when Herman gave her a Reading did she started changing her life.she got married and moved home.
Im 52 and ,appart from a few attempts to settle abroad,I still live in my parents home. But my Uranus is retrogade making things harder,and is opposite Moon in 10 increasing the attachment to mum and conflict betwen staying home with mum and wanting Independence.
Saturn as ruler of aquarius in 9th rulibg 9th couldnt explain all this.

Herman also talks about house being cause and ruler position the effect.Most people make the mistake of focusing on the effect.
So,a woman with cappy in 9th and Saturn in 2 had low self worth or esteem,and was poor due to lacking a degree.
To show us how they feed each other, he says she tried later to enroll for university but lacking Money(2nd house) she couldnt afford it which feed her low self worth. Eventually she began to study on her own from books which helped increase her self worth.
One example is insufficient to draw any firm conclusions
At least 250 similar examples are required before statistically even tentative conclusions may be considered

Furthermore no natal chart has been provided for 'the woman with Gemini rising' .... and that's required in order to consider the chart as a whole and for purposes of general discussion

Focusing on one or two aspects to the exclusion of all others is an unreliable approach to delineation of any natal chart.
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Unread 01-29-2014, 12:42 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

LOL Saturn in the 2nd may or may not be low in self esteem. I have Saturn in the 2nd house in Placidus but in the 3rd sign. When I was much younger, I struggled a lot with my self worth but most people do in the younger years. Saturn also rules my Moon, significtor of the emotion, mother, home and myself as a woman, interaction with other women particularly older women. Some even say Saturn in 2nd made one poor with material wealth, my family was not particular rich but certainly enough to support my study oversea, did have very hard time in early years. Myself is very responsible with my personal finance in fact much better quality life than most of the people at my age group also to do with Venus in Libra ruling the 2nd house trine Moon. Saturn placed in 2nd house, in the 3rd sign ruling over 5th house Moon, Moon rules 11th house and the Part of Fortune.

In my case, no Saturn didn't cause me grief. It locates in fortunate house, ruling over fortunate house also. I had learned my lesson of loving myself big time with a very high cost over a long period of time. But no, having Saturn in the 2nd house not necessary meaning you will have low self esteem for life. It can actually function very well to be realistic with money, having control over own resources also have Pluto in the 2nd house. A great planet to have in the house of talent. But of course you must see how it operates through aspect and sign rulership in the other part of the chart.

After all you must look at the whole chart.
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  #4  
Unread 01-29-2014, 01:48 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

If Mercury is in Aquarius in the 9th or 10th (Gemini is rising so this position is correct), how can Uranus in the 4th be final dispositor?

Back to the drawing board, mate.

A final dispositor must be in its own domicile.

It is quite likely that in the horoscope(s) of reference Uranus is in Virgo, which would set up a mutual reception (disposition), a condition far different from final disposition.

And although I have nothing against Uranus as lord of Aquarius...Saturn filled those shoes for a very long time and did admirably.
There are more reasons than one for retaining Saturn on the throne of Aquarius...symmetry being one, and the fundamentally conservative nature of Aquarius another. Regicides often suffer a vile fate, as my collateral ancestor Daniel Axtell would be happy to tell us had he not been drawn and quartered.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-29-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 01-29-2014, 07:47 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
If Mercury is in Aquarius in the 9th or 10th (Gemini is rising so this position is correct), how can Uranus in the 4th be final dispositor?

Back to the drawing board, mate.

A final dispositor must be in its own domicile.

It is quite likely that in the horoscope(s) of reference Uranus is in Virgo, which would set up a mutual reception (disposition), a condition far different from final disposition.

And although I have nothing against Uranus as lord of Aquarius...Saturn filled those shoes for a very long time and did admirably.
There are more reasons than one for retaining Saturn on the throne of Aquarius...symmetry being one, and the fundamentally conservative nature of Aquarius another. Regicides often suffer a vile fate, as my collateral ancestor Daniel Axtell would be happy to tell us had he not been drawn and quartered.
it all end up in uranus unless you think saturn is the sole rule of aquarius.The point is,Uranus as ruler of aquarius in my 4th fits my life better and the person he mentions in the book,who was born around the same year as me,from the planetary positions
I believe in what works not ancient theory
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  #6  
Unread 01-29-2014, 08:11 PM
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Let's not argue if Uranus actually ruled Aquarius.

Saturn rules over Aquarius since the time so long ago from the time rulership was set by the ancient astrologers. They used this to predict and astrology had survived to this age. What you are proposing here to fully remove Saturn's status on ruling over Aquarius in public forum, you would be better off writing to the top 5% professional astrologers and astrology federation across the globe to see what they will response to you.

I honestly tell you what I think in my mind. Reading One book or just using one chart can not win over this battle of removing Saturn's status over Aquarius. If you do want to do that let doing it real and read hundred books more and do hundred to thousand of charts to do prediction getting them right then you may write your letter to the federations and top 5% professional astrologers to tell them they are completely idiots with your solid evidences.

Last edited by poyi; 01-29-2014 at 09:35 PM. Reason: corrected typo
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  #7  
Unread 01-30-2014, 03:33 AM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Curious.

Ancient theory worked then, and works today.

Frankly, I am rather amazed that you subscribe to the theory of rulerships at all. But if you (generic) do, it must be subject to some sort of order. Mercury rules Gemini, is in Aquarius ruled by Uranus (who is probably in Virgo [1962-69] ruled by Mercury...and so you have mutual disposition or mutual reception -- Uranus rules Mercury and Mercury rules Uranus)...So, it would seem you are using ancient theory, only substituting Uranus for Saturn. But in any case (as I pointed out but you seem not to understand,) there is no final disposition, but instead a mutual disposition.

I already said that it is indifferent to me whether you use Saturn or Uranus. Many experienced and competent astrologers use Uranus as lord of Aquarius. The point is about "final disposition." That term does not apply to these charts.

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  #8  
Unread 01-30-2014, 12:06 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Let's not argue if Uranus actually ruled Aquarius.

Saturn rules over Aquarius since the time so long ago from the time rulership was set by the ancient astrologers. They used this to predict and astrology had survived to this age. What you are proposing here to fully remove Saturn's status on ruling over Aquarius in public forum, you would be better off writing to the top 5% professional astrologers and astrology federation across the globe to see what they will response to you.

I honestly tell you what I think in my mind. Reading One book or just using one chart can not win over this battle of removing Saturn's status over Aquarius. If you do want to do that let doing it real and read hundred books more and do hundred to thousand of charts to do prediction getting them right then you may write your letter to the federations and top 5% professional astrologers to tell them they are completely idiots with your solid evidences.
~

i dont dismiss saturn, but uranus seems to be related to aquarius
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  #9  
Unread 01-30-2014, 12:49 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post
~

i dont dismiss saturn,
but uranus seems to be related to aquarius

Deborah Houlding cites ancient sources as the basis for her conclusions that:

QUOTE

'…...The modern association between Aquarius and Uranus
has given this sign an exaggerated reputation
for being rebellious, anti-social, perverse, eccentric and emotionally unstable.

All of these negative forms of behaviour
arise as extreme manifestations in individuals that have yet to find their centre.


Anyone who is naturally inclined to care about the interests of social welfare
will face their shadow in a world of political frustration
where they are confronted with the mirror of their own anger and disappointment......'



'…...Uranus sits comfortably within the theme of Aquarius in issues of detachment and mental separation,


but the intrinsically destructive nature of Uranus


undermines the fact


that Aquarius is regarded as a fortunate sign


that rarely offers hostile conditions

unless the planets within it are afflicted and heavily debilitated ......'




'…...Whilst some degree of separation from the group is a natural and healthy Aquarian trait,

social isolation is not.

Primarily Aquarius works best
when supporting well-reasoned theoretical reform

rather than violent civil disruption,
leaving aggression aside
in favour of its polished weapons of diplomacy, logic and tactful gathering of public support......'
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  #10  
Unread 01-30-2014, 12:51 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

i first thought meyer was making up exemples but the fact that it is so similar to mine shows those are real cases.
i think its a matter of investigating other stelliums and dispositors
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Unread 01-30-2014, 12:54 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Deborah Houlding cites ancient sources as the basis for her conclusions that:

QUOTE

'…...The modern association between Aquarius and Uranus
has given this sign an exaggerated reputation
for being rebellious, anti-social, perverse, eccentric and emotionally unstable.
All of these negative forms of behaviour
arise as extreme manifestations in individuals that have yet to find their centre.

Anyone who is naturally inclined to care about the interests of social welfare
will face their shadow in a world of political frustration
where they are confronted with the mirror of their own anger and disappointment......'



'…...Uranus sits comfortably within the theme of Aquarius in issues of detachment and mental separation,

but the intrinsically destructive nature of Uranus

undermines the fact

that Aquarius is regarded as a fortunate sign

that rarely offers hostile conditions
unless the planets within it are afflicted and heavily debilitated ......'




'…...Whilst some degree of separation from the group is a natural and healthy Aquarian trait,
social isolation is not.

Primarily Aquarius works best
when supporting well-reasoned theoretical reform
rather than violent civil disruption,
leaving aggression aside
in favour of its polished weapons of diplomacy, logic and tactful gathering of public support......'
im my experience there is the saturn type and the uranian type,physically diferent.The second tends to have curly hair,big head and rebellious,who regards a few people as brothers. The saturnine seems to be content just picking on our prejudices,though his behaviour is conservative
Deb is strongly conventional and traditional.She has the habit of banning those with new ideas.A friend of mine developed a directionology system that is very logic but eventually got banned,alledgedly for being rude..ouch
http://pt.scribd.com/doc/55634521/Astro-Directions

Last edited by socrates; 01-30-2014 at 01:05 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 01-30-2014, 01:55 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Uranus may or may not function the best in Aquarius. We are still under investigation of rather the outer planets actually Own the rulership over the signs. Since discovery, many astrologers had been doing study to ensure their status. So far Brady, Hand and Frawley are holding the same idea of them having some influence but Do not Totally Removed the status of the traditional rulers over those signs. And the Outer planets do not fit into the Essential dignity table so they do not offer the complete insights of the their manifestation as per dignity.

I recall JupiterAsc sent me a few videos talked about Robert Hand his views on the outer planets. He is most famous, used both modern and ancient he first learned from his father they both capable of earning from stock market through effective prediction with astrology. Robert Hand is the main leader of Modern astrology many people owned and learned from his from early study of modern astrology, many have his books.

I took Hand's points on Outer planets do not own the rulership of any signs for they then lost the status of being the Transcendent Forces outside of the Boundaries of Saturn of the physical world and also lost their influences over human deepest psyche.

I had studied a few study pack from Brady she holds the same idea and explained many times in her own words and practices. My honest thoughts as Outer are yet to be solidified their status and place into the essential dignity table that is yet not completed, no final answer, and must be done cross generations until all the outer planets are tested in each sign which will take VERY LONG time.

I am not against the view of Uranus having power over Aquarius but I do have doubt rather it actually Own the sign. It is illogical to say their own those signs, because if they do they will fail their duty to transcend but rather simply they transcending the generations in different signs manifesting the power as per the meaning of the signs. They still do their job no matter in what sign, that is the whole idea and duty of slow moving but powerful influences over the Masses of People. Outer planets can only be specially personal when they are in absolute Tight orbs, with the personal planets, and the Axis. When they do within orbs and in effective contact, they are powerful, irreversible changes. In massive scale in Globe Weather prediction also extremely useful tools. But then again Must be within the orbs.

Even Jupiter and Saturn they are social and generation planets, same principles, they must and must must within the effective orbs. If these two not in contact to your person planets or personal axis, they do not hold as much meaning to you as a person, only when they transited and progressed to sensitive points then they will manifest. Or in more traditional wise during the Profection year. Same as the outer, when they continue to move eventually activated your personal points.
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Last edited by poyi; 01-30-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:23 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

maybe the thread title was misleading,it shoiuld be Uranus co-rules aquarius
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:36 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post
maybe the thread title was misleading,it shoiuld be Uranus co-rules aquarius
You cannot change a thread title
but it is possible to alternatively commence a new thread
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:45 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

I've had a hard time seeing either uranus or saturn as ruling aquarius, but it could be misunderstanding of the what is really going. I've been trying to think through some examples to justify the traditional rulership....

Society has many unwritten rules. People wanting to be part a social group will observe the groups behavior and adapt their own behavior to fit in (monkey see, monkey do). Aquarius dares to evaluate the these unwritten rules with logical reasoning. If rules don't make any logical sense, then they are not inclined to follow them. This independent thinking might seem like rebellion to some people, but can it really compare to extremes of uranian energy? When I think of uranus I tend to think of sudden, bizarre events/ideas that come out of nowhere with no apparent logical reason. Uranian energy is erratic and inconsistent. Uranian independence comes from the inability to stay the course due to inconsistent feelings and behavior. Uranian independence is not driven by logic like aquarius independence is.

I think a key phrase for aquarius is "cold logic." Of the many engineers I've worked with in the software and computer systems industry, I noticed a high occurrence of aquarius sun. It is no wonder since logical thinking and ego/emotional detachment are ideal traits for most big tech projects. This perpetuates the idea that uranus must rule aquarius because of the technology connection. However, the technology connection to uranus comes from the effect it has on society. I wouldn't say the uranus or aquarius rules technology, but that they each rule certain unrelated aspects of technology.

More interesting is the comparison between aquarius and capricorn with saturn as their ruler. Aquarius appears to apply saturn internally in the form of structured thinking, which creates the detached logical reasoning we see. Capricorn appears to apply saturn externally through physical structures, such as formal rules and procedures.

With that said, how does one predict if saturn will express aquarian qualities or capricorn qualities?
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Very simple answer in my mind.

Aquarius is Air the mind, the thoughts, the ideas can only be understood by understanding intellectually.

Capricorn is Earth, the physical structure, that you can feel and see and construct with your own hands in physical labor.

Putting Both together, the ideas can only be manifested into the physical world through Saturn.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 02:53 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
With that said, how does one predict if saturn will express aquarian qualities or capricorn qualities?
Through evaluation of the predominant temperament in the natal chart.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temperament.html
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Unread 01-30-2014, 03:06 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Aquarius and Capricorn continue to be under the rulership of Saturn, in my opinion as they are still both dealing with the world, the realm within the consciousness mind and the world our physical body can relate to.

Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are to do with something that is illogical to the world that we know, even when we know, they carrying the energy of

Uranus: Breaking out, Breaking Through to reform it in a way that is fastest acting, the fastest change as the fastest moving Outer

Neptune: alternating the structure, defusing into the psyche of our soul, the membrane of the organism, to break down the formal structure through dissolving the boundaries/laws of the physical world.

Pluto: the absolute, mutation, destruction and rebirth in a new form.

All these carry mixed functions of the traditional planets but they have an escalating nature all with the principles of outside/beyond of the Saturian Boundaries which is familiar to our consciousness. Outer planets perhaps best function in bringing in something that is beyond our regular imagination, generational collective unconsciousness.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 03:15 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are to do with something that is illogical to the world that we know
Yep.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:55 PM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

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Originally Posted by socrates View Post
im my experience there is the saturn type and the uranian type,physically diferent.The second tends to have curly hair,big head and rebellious,who regards a few people as brothers. The saturnine seems to be content just picking on our prejudices,though his behaviour is conservative
Deb is strongly conventional and traditional.She has the habit of banning those with new ideas.A friend of mine developed a directionology system that is very logic but eventually got banned,alledgedly for being rude..ouch
http://pt.scribd.com/doc/55634521/Astro-Directions
I may need another thread for this but Danny just told me this:

"I am always busy with something, haven't really looked at these astro-directions for a long while.
But it looks like my forecast for Greece worked out fairly well.
Their troubles continued through 2011 as predicted, and Greek stock market bottomed in late May 2012.
So indeed started improving after Jupiter was conjunct with Athens GC degree in March 2012, as mentioned in my article.
Greek stocks have more than doubles since (see chart below).

I have the program I made for the Astro-directions. Will see if I can get it out as a freeware you can play with.


Danny




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Unread 02-04-2014, 12:01 AM
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Re: Uranus rules Aquarius

The way that traditional astrology has been set up is very elegant and takes into consideration diurnal/nocturnal and gender (masculine/feminine). With the exception of the luminaries, all the planets up to Saturn rule a masculine and feminine sign. The elements are paired up elegantly to illustrate temperament and how they work together- Air and Earth are allies and Fire and Water are most like each other, and then there's Water and Earth as the bridge.

Mercury rules Gemini Air and Virgo Earth
Saturn rules Aquarius Air and Capricorn Earth

Traditionally, the reason why Air and Earth are paired up to be ruled by Mercury and Saturn is because the planets are the most like each other as they are the concrete, rational mind-oriented planets. Saturn is Earth and melancholy, whereas Mercury is most like Air (mobile) and sanguine. Mercury exalts in an Earth sign (Virgo), and Saturn exalts in an Air Sign (Libra).
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