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Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people Discuss lost items horaries, also inquiries on the whereabouts of missing people.


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  #76  
Unread 01-09-2014, 02:00 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

When this thread was first started, I checked out the facebook page and noted that he had quite a few other interests and that his beard was being grown because he was going to compete in a "Mountain Man" contest. His facebook page also showed that he regularly traveled/hiked and therefore, was no stranger to the outdoors - many of the photos are at what might be considered remote locations. With this in mind, being lost/injured in the wilderness becomes a likely possibility , maybe not "the possibility" but, still possible. This is not based on astrology .. rather observation of provided facts.

I looked at the chart for this question when this thread started, and since I do horary charts in a different manner, the placement of the moon takes utmost importance in that it defines the question and provides the events until the moon is VOC.

In this case, the moon was in the 7th (I use whole signs). If we take the missing person as the 6th being the co-worker, then the moon is in the 2nd - not much sense there. If the missing becomes the 1st house, then the 7th is the public house and the moon placed there does not make much sense either. This started to bring up the issues that maybe the chart was not going to provide an answer to the question and also whether the person asking should know the information. In this case, I was taking that as a "NO" answer. She was being placed as "part of the public" (moon in 7th) and therefore not entitled to the information. On the other hand, if the question had been about a relationship, marriage, legal issue, then this moon placement in the 7th would have suited.

I judged the horary chart unreadable for the question provided based on the method I use - again, just my opinion.



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  #77  
Unread 01-09-2014, 02:22 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinka View Post

I looked at the chart for this question when this thread started, and since I do horary charts in a different manner, the placement of the moon takes utmost importance in that it defines the question and provides the events until the moon is VOC.

In this case, the moon was in the 7th (I use whole signs). If we take the missing person as the 6th being the co-worker, then the moon is in the 2nd - not much sense there. If the missing becomes the 1st house, then the 7th is the public house and the moon placed there does not make much sense either. This started to bring up the issues that maybe the chart was not going to provide an answer to the question and also whether the person asking should know the information. In this case, I was taking that as a "NO" answer. She was being placed as "part of the public" (moon in 7th) and therefore not entitled to the information. On the other hand, if the question had been about a relationship, marriage, legal issue, then this moon placement in the 7th would have suited.

I judged the horary chart unreadable for the question provided based on the method I use - again, just my opinion.
That is quite interesting, Marinka.
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:28 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

What about the Moon placed in 7th but be the ruler of the 12th sign which is the 6th of the 7th? While both Moon and 7th are ruled by Saturn in Scorpio>Mars in Libra>Venus Rx in Capricorn 12th, 6th of 1st back to Saturn. Saturn is parallel and contra parallel to both AC/DC. Sun as the ruler of AC also shared the same final dispositor with DC.
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:31 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
That is quite interesting, Marinka.

Again, just my opinion .. not meant to indicate the correctness (or not) or other interpretations.
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:35 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

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Again, just my opinion .. not meant to indicate the correctness (or not) or other interpretations.
Coincidentaly enough, so was my opinion; not meant to indicate anything on others' interpretations...
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:37 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
What about the Moon placed in 7th but be the ruler of the 12th sign which is the 6th of the 7th? While both Moon and 7th are ruled by Saturn in Scorpio>Mars in Libra>Venus Rx in Capricorn 12th, 6th of 1st back to Saturn. Saturn is parallel and contra parallel to both AC/DC. Sun as the ruler of AC also shared the same final dispositor with DC.
My method of judging horary charts to be worthy of reading (appropriate for question) is relatively simple, this would take it out of that simplicity.

Again, this is just my method, you may use another method to judge the suitability of a chart to answer a particular question and the chart may be readable to you.
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  #82  
Unread 01-09-2014, 02:58 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

No idea what he was wearing at the time of the disappearance. That's never been mentioned in the news.

This is interesting though. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/lexi...ABS3MTQE1TF2D5 One of the posts says, "I am a close friend of the family and heard that the police did investigate the person who knocked on the door, the night he went missing. I also heard that the person quicky retained legal counsel and was not very cooperative with the police. Some say, it was just due to fear of the police, some say it's because of guilt. But no one seems to know why or what the motive would be, as nothing was missing from the apt aside from Alex's keys, wallet and cell phone. As for the girlfriend, she lived in another state, and had nothing to do with his disappearance. Her name is listed in the articles online, so the police aren't hiding anything. In fact, she is the one that set up the account on Facebook to help find Alex. His family is devastated by the lack of information, and have no idea what happened. Alex was a chef, highly intelligent, and didn't run with the wrong people. He was however; very generous and naive, therefore likely to put himself in harms way unknowingly."

Also we're not really coworkers. We work for the same university, but it employs thousands of people so I don't think the 6th house really works. Maybe we should just look at the event chart. I wish I knew his birthday so I could look at his natal and transits and stuff.
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  #83  
Unread 01-09-2014, 02:59 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

There are a lot I would like to say for learning purposes. But then I am very reluctant to do so in public. Without reading the Horary as we can't be sure if that is reliable chart, for example. The event chart, should be the most objective chart to review.

To cut it short. In my opinion, based on event chart, it maybe a woman who knocked the door Or Simply the situation he just finished talking to his girlfriend, which is the ruler of his undoing or a faraway place, a woman with the nature of Leo and Sagittarius, sharing the same interest hobby, leisure, or sex/romance with the missing person 1st house.

Leo ascendant, Sun in Sagittarius>Jupiter Rx in Cancer>Moon in Leo, Sun in Sagittarius again in 5th.

Aquarius the one who knocked the door, Saturn in Scorpio>Mars in Libra>Venus in Capricorn>Saturn in Capricorn.

Or Aquarius>Uranus in Aries 9th>Mars in Libra>Venus in Capricorn>Saturn in Capricorn.

Saturn was in the 4th, in the unit of 7 it perfected the square to AC then to Moon of 12th house lord but before that Saturn trine the Part of Fortune in 8th house in Pisces it was something pleasant to them regarding to 8th house and Jupiter as the ruler placed in 12th Rx. or Neptune itself in 7th or 8th sign in Pisces.
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  #84  
Unread 01-09-2014, 06:08 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbell View Post
....But no one seems to know why or what the motive would be, as nothing was missing from the apt aside from Alex's keys, wallet and cell phone.....
I will try an interpretation too….i hope it helps.

Luley only pays attention to the angles and their rulers in forensic charts; the houses and signs of the angular rulers, and the planets in the same house or in aspect to the angular rulers. The first house ruler Leo ASC (the subject) 29 Sag Sun conjunct 24 Sag Mercury in the 5th house.

Mercury in the event chart doesn’t rule an angle but is connected with the first house ruler, so it is important. Luley points to the nature of Mercury as movement, most commonly explained as a vehicle, car or truck. It naturally rules the 3rd house so it can indicate a neighbor, a communication or messenger or short journeys. The event chart Mercury is ruler of the 2nd house & 11th houses and after Luley the 2nd house is related to personal objects, like a wallet, keys and cash.

Perhaps the “other person” (ruler of 7th Saturn in 4th) lived in the same apartment house (Mars ruler of the 4th in the 3rd house) as the subject and knocked on the subjects’ door to ask for cash? For a party maybe? (Merc ruler of second in the 5th conjunct Sun).

Mars in the 3rd house of short journeys, steel & iron (cars & trucks). Maybe they drove to an ATM using the neighbors car or truck?

The Sag Sun is disposed by Jupiter in the 12th (in body location charts attention is paid to the 12th house!). Jupiter according to Luley is very rarely a person though, most often it describes the setting, like a church or school grounds, or university….and Jupiter is in Cancer which governs fast running water, like a river or public parks with bodies of water, or waterfront homes etc. could indicate that that maybe there was an ATM near the university, or the river, or a public park with a pond that they visited shortly after leaving the apartment?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 03:22 AM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

There were mention of the account being accessed or money lost relating to his disappearance.

The reporter said the girlfriend is not allowed to release rather she knew that person who knocked the door or not.

http://www.wkyt.com/news/crimetracke...239406101.html

I will remove the link once you guys had seen it. I still hope we can discuss without naming him so his family won't google and found our conversation to upset them even more.
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  #86  
Unread 01-10-2014, 08:04 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

I think I read that nothing was taken.
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Unread 01-15-2014, 11:09 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

The birthdate was posted on the facebook page so I was able to draw up a birthchart with transits and progressions at the time of disappearance. I don't know the birthtime, though, and can only assume the city (hometown).
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Unread 01-21-2014, 06:52 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

http://www.lex18.com/news/murder-warrant-issued-in-connection-to-missing-lexington-man

So sad
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Unread 01-21-2014, 09:07 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

kbell, thanks for keeping us informed. I hope you will continue to do so as the case unfolds. The news of murder must be horrific for the family, but it is also very hard on families never to know what happened to their loved one.
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  #90  
Unread 01-21-2014, 11:58 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

You're welcome. One man is still missing, but I assume the one in jail told them he was murdered or they have evidence. Very sad Now I think the family just wants to know where he is.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 01:41 AM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Culpeper has illustrated that horary can provide answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpeper View Post
This chart does not look good for the quesited.

Use the first house for the missing person.

His planetary significator is the Sun in the 6th whole sign house Capricorn.

In classical astrology the 6th house is the house of mortal enemies.

Saturn is the significator of this enemy, and it is in the 4th house.

So the quesited met this enemy at his home.

Mars is striking the Sun with an almost exact square aspect, and Mars and Saturn are in mixed mutual reception.

This combination is altogether unfavorable for the quesited, and he may not be seen alive again
.
and Lena highlighted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
It could go beyond, Culpeper; 6th is also the house of co-workers.

Meh, 'nuf said from my side.

Lena,
off.
Thank you for the update
which is in fact confirmation of Culpeper's analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbell View Post
You're welcome. One man is still missing, but I assume the one in jail told them he was murdered or they have evidence. Very sad Now I think the family just wants to know where he is.
Very unfortunate example that horary works
condolences to family and friends of all involved
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  #92  
Unread 01-22-2014, 02:43 AM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

It also demonstrates the value of whole sign houses in horary: with quadrant houses (such as Placidus or Regiomontanus) the Sun would have been in the 5th house-with whole sign it is in the 6th house (as mentioned in Culpeper's excellent delineation)...
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Unread 01-22-2014, 02:50 AM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Retrospectively, notice too that retrograde Jupiter, lord of the 8th whole sign house, is posited in the 12th house and that the Sun applies to an opposition to Jupiter, and that the Part of Fortune is also in the 12th whole sign house, and that retrograde Venus (in the 6th whole sign house along with significator Sun) applies to opposition to the Part of Fortune.
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  #94  
Unread 01-22-2014, 07:51 AM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

After dr farr mentioned about the anti part of fortune months ago sometime last year in one the threads. I do also notice the contact with anti part of fortune is very significant.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 04:54 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

With all due respect to my learned colleagues, what appears to be known so far could be surmised with no reference to astrology, but simply to some basic forensic principles. I touched on these on my first post, page one.

1. Alex Johnson was probably expecting the person who knocked at his door. He turned off his phone, rather than saying, "Hold on just a minute." He didn't expect to be kidnapped, but were this an unexpected knock out of the blue, most of us would have responded differently.

2. There was no sign of a scuffle or argument in the hallway outside his door, suggesting that this was either (a) a person known to Johnson or else (b) a contact. Alternatively, (c) the stranger may have pulled a weapon on Johnson and told him to come quietly. Note that the current charge against one suspected perpetrator is kidnapping; and other is an accomplice to kidnapping.

3. The longer a person is missing, the less likely it is that he will be found, or found alive.

There are various specialized branches of forensics and basic assumptions and techniques of criminal investigation. I think any astrologer interested in missing persons cases would want to study them.

Me? I get my information from reading too many murder mysteries. (lately Kathy Reichs and Patricia Cornwell!)
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Unread 01-22-2014, 05:39 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Very unfortunate example that horary works
condolences to family and friends of all involved
The question was "Where is he?"

With that in mind, it doesn't seem like the horary chart was working all together that well to provide a location of where he is. Of course, that is just my perspective on it .......


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Unread 01-22-2014, 05:45 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
With all due respect to my learned colleagues, what appears to be known so far could be surmised with no reference to astrology, but simply to some basic forensic principles. I touched on these on my first post, page one.

1. Alex Johnson was probably expecting the person who knocked at his door. He turned off his phone, rather than saying, "Hold on just a minute." He didn't expect to be kidnapped, but were this an unexpected knock out of the blue, most of us would have responded differently.

2. There was no sign of a scuffle or argument in the hallway outside his door, suggesting that this was either (a) a person known to Johnson or else (b) a contact. Alternatively, (c) the stranger may have pulled a weapon on Johnson and told him to come quietly. Note that the current charge against one suspected perpetrator is kidnapping; and other is an accomplice to kidnapping.

3. The longer a person is missing, the less likely it is that he will be found, or found alive.

There are various specialized branches of forensics and basic assumptions and techniques of criminal investigation. I think any astrologer interested in missing persons cases would want to study them.

Me? I get my information from reading too many murder mysteries. (lately Kathy Reichs and Patricia Cornwell!)
Waybread,

Overall, I agree with with your assessment although, we still don't have the full story and may never have it. Much of the information provided from the horary chart is still not validated as the whole truth has still not come out. So far, it seems that astrology would not have added anything concrete to help with the investigation - although, this might prove differently in the future as more information is released or discovered.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 05:48 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

We had this discussion in the whole thread....Aquarius traditionally ruled by Saturn now in Scorpio placed in the 10th also ruled the 12th of 7th, Mars as the dispositior placed in 9th then Venus in 12th. In an open public placed of a rather hidden location signified by the combination of 9th, 10th and 12th of 7th, in extreme temperature of solidified water as ice/snow.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 06:15 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
We had this discussion in the whole thread....Aquarius traditionally ruled by Saturn now in Scorpio placed in the 10th also ruled the 12th of 7th, Mars as the dispositior placed in 9th then Venus in 12th. In an open public placed of a rather hidden location signified by the combination of 9th, 10th and 12th of 7th, in extreme temperature of solidified water as ice/snow.
I was thinking more like longitude and latitude of the location which could then pinpoint it down to an area of a few acres....

While interesting, a hidden location could be anywhere and does not provide much to go by. Same with extreme temperature ice/snow as that could cover quite a bit of the US.


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Unread 01-22-2014, 06:29 PM
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Re: Missing Person - need help

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Originally Posted by Marinka View Post
I was thinking more like longitude and latitude of the location which could then pinpoint it down to an area of a few acres....

While interesting, a hidden location could be anywhere and does not provide much to go by. Same with extreme temperature ice/snow as that could cover quite a bit of the US.


In the Missing brother thread, Mossadari did attempt to locate the brother in the map in thread #50. In traditional astrology Signs and Houses also rules Direction from the location of the querent.

Scorpio:

Direction: All the water signs relate to the direction north - Scorpio relates to north-east.http://www.skyscript.co.uk/scorpio.html#tr

Saturn is the 4th house of the querent which is also the North.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h4.html

Then Saturn is at the degree of 20 degrees 32 in Scorpio and 10 degrees approaching to IC. So we could guess and may use the Wheel as the actual compass. For the Northern side of the physical map of the querent in the degree of such as per the Horary.
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