BobZemco
Well-known member
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This isn't Horary Astrology, but that doesn't matter, since everyone has been looking at the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs/Houses for children for the past 9,000 years.
If you don't have any Planets in the 1st House, does that mean you don't really exist?
Just curious.
Understandably, many women (and men) have hopes for children. We look at the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs actually.
The logic behind this is very simple: the 1st House represents you; the 5th House signifies your children and specifically, your 1st Born child.
But the 11th?
Two reasons: First, the 11th Sign/House is the fifth Sign/House from the 7th House, which signifies your partners, including marriage partners and even long-term relationships. And, yes, 2,000 years ago, people, um, "lived in sin." That makes the 11th Sign/House ruling your partner's children.
The second reason is that the 11th Sign/House signifies your successors and legal heirs, because it is the second Sign from the 10th Sign.
As king, president, prime minister, regimental commander, CEO, senior partner at the law firm, chief resident of surgery, or crew leader at McDonald's, the 11th Sign/House is the person to succeed you.
In addition to successors, it is your legal heirs and appointees (for example the Executor or Executrix of a Will/Estate).
And yes, that includes your adopted children, who become your legal heirs.
So, it's the 5th and 11th Signs -- not Houses -- because it is the 5th and 11th Signs that make an aspect to the Ascending Sign --- the 5th Sign trines the ascending Sign, while the 11th Sign sextiles the ascending Sign.
The trine is stronger than the sextile, and so the implication is that with the 5th Sign trine, you have a stronger bond with your biological children, than with the children of another (even if you adopt them).
You want to see some kind of relationship between the Planets ruling the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs. This relationship can be
by Sign aspect -- meaning those Planets are in Signs that sextile, square or trine
by being in the same Sign, even though they are not joined
by being in applying aspects to each other (and perfecting those aspects)
by having light transferred from one Planet to another
by having light collected (which suggests the necessity of medical intervention in order to have children or if with the 11th, then using and adoption agency)
Note it is possible to have your own children, other's children and also adopt.
If you have difficulty judging, or get mixed signals, then use the Lot of Children. That's especially true when the indicators are negative, because the Lot and its ruler can help you tell why not children (Lot in 6th indicating general health issues, or Lot in 8th indicating problems with reproductive organs or Lot Ruler in 6th or 8th, joined with the ruler of the 6th or 8th and so on).
Since Retrograde Planets in aspect often impede, take note of that, since it could indicate fewer children than the chart suggests, or a delay in having children, or difficulties having children (which could be related to career, education, financial position, being in jail, health issues and such).
There are people on this forum who will misleadingly tell you the 8th House is "Sex."
It is not. The 8th Sign/House is Death, among things, but also the male and female reproductive organs and, uh, childbirth.
You can go over to the Dark Side and watch them pull their hair out trying to find out when they'll have children, because they don't understand that the 8th Sign/House is childbirth and not sex, and because they don't have the common sense to realize that one can become pregnant in one year, and have the baby in a different year.
Gestation...what a concept.
I'll demonstrate just to tease you. I'm not going to post a chart, but I'll use a chart everyone has access, and that is Diana Princess of Wales.
Like Diana, the both of you want to know if you might have children, and when you might have them. If Diana came to me as a Traditional Astrologer, I would look at her chart and see an very Unfortunate Moon with the Tail in the 3rd Sign (an Human Sign) ruling the 8th House applying to an opposition with Mars (in an Human Sign), ruling the 12th House and Retrograde Mercury in 8th in applying sextile to Mars, and Mars with the Head, plus 4th Sign Ruler Jupiter the 3rd Sign in an Human Sign...not gonna go there...
We see the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs to be Sagittarius, Aries and Libra.
Venus rules Libra. Venus is in Taurus. Venus is in aversion to Libra, a indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children. Venus in Taurus is in aversion to the Rising Sign, another indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children. Finally, Venus in Taurus is in aversion to the 5th House, yet one more indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children.
In Traditional Astrology, we put on our black robes and sometimes powdered wigs, and then we weigh the facts, rendering a judgment. With three rather strong testimonies, we would judge it not likely for Diana to ever adopt or have step-children.
Mars, the 5th Sign Ruler is in an Human Sign. While Mars is in aversion to his own Sign, Virgo does square Sagittarius, and that is a weak testimony. 1st Sign Ruler Jupiter is a positive testimony for children, and Jupiter being in an Human Sign -- Aquarius -- is sextile to both Sagittarius and Aries, and so we have connections there, and our judgment is the potential for children but not many. Here, we might want to look at the Lot of Children, which is in Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter....positive testimonies for children, so our judgment is that she will have them.
According to her chart, Mars rules the 5th Sign and so represents her 1st Born child William, while Mercury ruling the 7th House is her 2nd Born child Harry.
Mercury (Harry) is Retrograde, Combust, in aversion to its own House, while Mars (William) is elevated over Mercury, and in the 10th Sign. The tenth Sign from the 5th Sign -- Capricorn -- tells part of the story of William. Saturn is domiciled in Capricorn, and while the conjunction with Jupiter never perfects, the trine with Venus in Taurus ruling Williams wealth and substance does.
Anyway, as a Traditional Astrologer, I would start with Diana's profected charts, because Traditional Astrologers don't like to waste time on stupid stuff....like Transits.
I recommend the Lot of Conception. In Diana's chart it falls natally at 21° Taurus with Ruler Venus so no problems there. Accordingly, any time Venus is activated, you need to pay attention.
Starting at '0' we count around the chart, each Sign equals 1 year, and come to year 20 in 1981 with Leo on the profected Ascendant. Sun rules Leo sitting in Cancer natally in the 8th Sign/House of Child-Birth.
B-b-b-b-better cast a Solar Return Chart.
Scorpio comes to the Solar Return Ascendant ruled by Pluto? Nope, Pluto doesn't count...rule by Mars who is sitting in Gemini in the 8th Sign of the Solar Return Chart and rules the 5th Sign of Children natally.
The Solar Return Lot of Conception is at 20° Aquarius, with SR Mars in an applying trine, and Saturn exalted in Libra with Jupiter ruling the 5th Sign of the SR Chart applying to a conjunction.
How freaking hard was that?
Moving right along, we see that 2 year later, the profected Ascendant is in Libra activating Natal Venus who rules the Lot of Conception.
B-b-b-b-better cast a Solar Return Chart.
This chart's a little more difficult, which is why some use the Lot of Conception. This chart doesn't show child-birth, but then that's because Harry isn't born for another 16 months or so.
Gemini-Rising, Lot of Conception is at 21° Scorpio and Solar Return Venus in Leo –-- ruler of the natal Lot of Conception ---- comes round and joins the Solar Return Lot of Conception on December 24 –--- and then Prince Henry comes along 9 months later.
If you wanna back-track, then see Diana’s Solar Return for 1981 with Aquarius-Rising and the Solar Return Lot of Conception at 20° Aquarius. Solar Return Venus –-- again ruler of the natal Lot of Conception ---- comes round and trines the Solar Return Lot of Conception on September 4, and then Prince William arrives 9 months later in June.
That’s how it’s done.
You don’t have to use Lots, but they often clarify and make life much simpler.
So, first and foremost, focus on the 8th Sign/House since it is the House of Child-birth, and then look to connections between the 5th and 8th House, or use the Lot of Conception.
One other thing…..in Diana’s Chart, Venus rules Children…..for Diana, and for no one else.
Yes, it is possible that Venus rules Children in your chart, but it’s also possible that it is Saturn who rules Children in your chart….or Mercury, or Sun or Mars.
You’ll need to calculate the Almuten of Children, and I mention that, because the Planet that rules the 7th House in your chart may not be the Planet that rules Marriage --– yes, you’ll need to determine which of the Planets actually rules Marriage (and the same for wealth and health and everything else --- the Planets that rules those Houses aren’t necessarily the Planets that run the show).
Learning is both fun and rewarding…..so use the internet.
This isn't Horary Astrology, but that doesn't matter, since everyone has been looking at the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs/Houses for children for the past 9,000 years.
If you don't have any Planets in the 1st House, does that mean you don't really exist?
Just curious.
Understandably, many women (and men) have hopes for children. We look at the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs actually.
The logic behind this is very simple: the 1st House represents you; the 5th House signifies your children and specifically, your 1st Born child.
But the 11th?
Two reasons: First, the 11th Sign/House is the fifth Sign/House from the 7th House, which signifies your partners, including marriage partners and even long-term relationships. And, yes, 2,000 years ago, people, um, "lived in sin." That makes the 11th Sign/House ruling your partner's children.
The second reason is that the 11th Sign/House signifies your successors and legal heirs, because it is the second Sign from the 10th Sign.
As king, president, prime minister, regimental commander, CEO, senior partner at the law firm, chief resident of surgery, or crew leader at McDonald's, the 11th Sign/House is the person to succeed you.
In addition to successors, it is your legal heirs and appointees (for example the Executor or Executrix of a Will/Estate).
And yes, that includes your adopted children, who become your legal heirs.
So, it's the 5th and 11th Signs -- not Houses -- because it is the 5th and 11th Signs that make an aspect to the Ascending Sign --- the 5th Sign trines the ascending Sign, while the 11th Sign sextiles the ascending Sign.
The trine is stronger than the sextile, and so the implication is that with the 5th Sign trine, you have a stronger bond with your biological children, than with the children of another (even if you adopt them).
You want to see some kind of relationship between the Planets ruling the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs. This relationship can be
by Sign aspect -- meaning those Planets are in Signs that sextile, square or trine
by being in the same Sign, even though they are not joined
by being in applying aspects to each other (and perfecting those aspects)
by having light transferred from one Planet to another
by having light collected (which suggests the necessity of medical intervention in order to have children or if with the 11th, then using and adoption agency)
Note it is possible to have your own children, other's children and also adopt.
If you have difficulty judging, or get mixed signals, then use the Lot of Children. That's especially true when the indicators are negative, because the Lot and its ruler can help you tell why not children (Lot in 6th indicating general health issues, or Lot in 8th indicating problems with reproductive organs or Lot Ruler in 6th or 8th, joined with the ruler of the 6th or 8th and so on).
Since Retrograde Planets in aspect often impede, take note of that, since it could indicate fewer children than the chart suggests, or a delay in having children, or difficulties having children (which could be related to career, education, financial position, being in jail, health issues and such).
There are people on this forum who will misleadingly tell you the 8th House is "Sex."
It is not. The 8th Sign/House is Death, among things, but also the male and female reproductive organs and, uh, childbirth.
You can go over to the Dark Side and watch them pull their hair out trying to find out when they'll have children, because they don't understand that the 8th Sign/House is childbirth and not sex, and because they don't have the common sense to realize that one can become pregnant in one year, and have the baby in a different year.
Gestation...what a concept.
I'll demonstrate just to tease you. I'm not going to post a chart, but I'll use a chart everyone has access, and that is Diana Princess of Wales.
Like Diana, the both of you want to know if you might have children, and when you might have them. If Diana came to me as a Traditional Astrologer, I would look at her chart and see an very Unfortunate Moon with the Tail in the 3rd Sign (an Human Sign) ruling the 8th House applying to an opposition with Mars (in an Human Sign), ruling the 12th House and Retrograde Mercury in 8th in applying sextile to Mars, and Mars with the Head, plus 4th Sign Ruler Jupiter the 3rd Sign in an Human Sign...not gonna go there...
We see the 1st, 5th and 11th Signs to be Sagittarius, Aries and Libra.
Venus rules Libra. Venus is in Taurus. Venus is in aversion to Libra, a indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children. Venus in Taurus is in aversion to the Rising Sign, another indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children. Finally, Venus in Taurus is in aversion to the 5th House, yet one more indicator that Diana will not adopt or have step-children.
In Traditional Astrology, we put on our black robes and sometimes powdered wigs, and then we weigh the facts, rendering a judgment. With three rather strong testimonies, we would judge it not likely for Diana to ever adopt or have step-children.
Mars, the 5th Sign Ruler is in an Human Sign. While Mars is in aversion to his own Sign, Virgo does square Sagittarius, and that is a weak testimony. 1st Sign Ruler Jupiter is a positive testimony for children, and Jupiter being in an Human Sign -- Aquarius -- is sextile to both Sagittarius and Aries, and so we have connections there, and our judgment is the potential for children but not many. Here, we might want to look at the Lot of Children, which is in Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter....positive testimonies for children, so our judgment is that she will have them.
According to her chart, Mars rules the 5th Sign and so represents her 1st Born child William, while Mercury ruling the 7th House is her 2nd Born child Harry.
Mercury (Harry) is Retrograde, Combust, in aversion to its own House, while Mars (William) is elevated over Mercury, and in the 10th Sign. The tenth Sign from the 5th Sign -- Capricorn -- tells part of the story of William. Saturn is domiciled in Capricorn, and while the conjunction with Jupiter never perfects, the trine with Venus in Taurus ruling Williams wealth and substance does.
Anyway, as a Traditional Astrologer, I would start with Diana's profected charts, because Traditional Astrologers don't like to waste time on stupid stuff....like Transits.
I recommend the Lot of Conception. In Diana's chart it falls natally at 21° Taurus with Ruler Venus so no problems there. Accordingly, any time Venus is activated, you need to pay attention.
Starting at '0' we count around the chart, each Sign equals 1 year, and come to year 20 in 1981 with Leo on the profected Ascendant. Sun rules Leo sitting in Cancer natally in the 8th Sign/House of Child-Birth.
B-b-b-b-better cast a Solar Return Chart.
Scorpio comes to the Solar Return Ascendant ruled by Pluto? Nope, Pluto doesn't count...rule by Mars who is sitting in Gemini in the 8th Sign of the Solar Return Chart and rules the 5th Sign of Children natally.
The Solar Return Lot of Conception is at 20° Aquarius, with SR Mars in an applying trine, and Saturn exalted in Libra with Jupiter ruling the 5th Sign of the SR Chart applying to a conjunction.
How freaking hard was that?
Moving right along, we see that 2 year later, the profected Ascendant is in Libra activating Natal Venus who rules the Lot of Conception.
B-b-b-b-better cast a Solar Return Chart.
This chart's a little more difficult, which is why some use the Lot of Conception. This chart doesn't show child-birth, but then that's because Harry isn't born for another 16 months or so.
Gemini-Rising, Lot of Conception is at 21° Scorpio and Solar Return Venus in Leo –-- ruler of the natal Lot of Conception ---- comes round and joins the Solar Return Lot of Conception on December 24 –--- and then Prince Henry comes along 9 months later.
If you wanna back-track, then see Diana’s Solar Return for 1981 with Aquarius-Rising and the Solar Return Lot of Conception at 20° Aquarius. Solar Return Venus –-- again ruler of the natal Lot of Conception ---- comes round and trines the Solar Return Lot of Conception on September 4, and then Prince William arrives 9 months later in June.
That’s how it’s done.
You don’t have to use Lots, but they often clarify and make life much simpler.
So, first and foremost, focus on the 8th Sign/House since it is the House of Child-birth, and then look to connections between the 5th and 8th House, or use the Lot of Conception.
One other thing…..in Diana’s Chart, Venus rules Children…..for Diana, and for no one else.
Yes, it is possible that Venus rules Children in your chart, but it’s also possible that it is Saturn who rules Children in your chart….or Mercury, or Sun or Mars.
You’ll need to calculate the Almuten of Children, and I mention that, because the Planet that rules the 7th House in your chart may not be the Planet that rules Marriage --– yes, you’ll need to determine which of the Planets actually rules Marriage (and the same for wealth and health and everything else --- the Planets that rules those Houses aren’t necessarily the Planets that run the show).
Learning is both fun and rewarding…..so use the internet.
