Seeing someone as weak

For example, this pervy elderly fellow (60+) who…..I don’t know why, but I view him as lacking completely in any masculine qualities. He’s not gay or transsexual – in no way would I gay bash! Just no masculine pride and self respect that you see in…pretty much all men!! Anyway, I find him slightly…..kinda revolting. I know!! That’s terrible, and he’s old, I’m so mean….but it’s a gut reaction! Like I find his lacking in masculinity comically over the top. He makes my skin crawl. This is not painting me in a good light is it? lol. as if I’m an abuser of the elderly. Anyway, I’m guessing it’s either my Saturn on his Mars, or Pluto on his Mars. The reaction, the dislike…is gut and primal, as if my body is saying “kill it!! kill it with fire!!”.
I’m not gonna...I’m too cute for prison. So I’m guessing Pluto? What could cause an instinctive disgust towards someone?

There would have to be more than that. Negative aspects of their Sun or ASC also, perhaps your ruler of your 8th to one of those. Could also be past-life related and your reaction is sub-conscious from another life. Check south nodes and vertex.

tokyo.lights said:

For example, this pervy elderly fellow (60+) who…..I don’t know why, but I view him as lacking completely in any masculine qualities. He’s not gay or transsexual – in no way would I gay bash! Just no masculine pride and self respect that you see in…pretty much all men!! Anyway, I find him slightly…..kinda revolting. I know!! That’s terrible, and he’s old, I’m so mean….but it’s a gut reaction! Like I find his lacking in masculinity comically over the top. He makes my skin crawl. This is not painting me in a good light is it? lol. as if I’m an abuser of the elderly. Anyway, I’m guessing it’s either my Saturn on his Mars, or Pluto on his Mars. The reaction, the dislike…is gut and primal, as if my body is saying “kill it!! kill it with fire!!”.
I’m not gonna...I’m too cute for prison. So I’m guessing Pluto? What could cause an instinctive disgust towards someone?

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You have made me smile reading your post because you sound just like me! I don't believe you are a gay or elderly bashing person at all and I can relate to exactly what you were trying to describe, I really can! There are always going to be people, every now and again, that provoke certain feelings ya know?

You do seem wayyy too cute for prison so just try and stay from matches and lighters ok?

Serafin5

I've experienced saturn on someone's mars and pluto on someone's mars, and they didn't feel to me like what you described. Saturn on someone's mars was me disapproving of them being overtly sexual, or even vulgar in my opinion, because I felt inadequate, while secretly wishing I could be more like them, pluto on someone's mars has been more neutral, simply being able to see how their mars works when they are attracted to other people.

Two things occur to me as being possible causes for your reaction, neither of which are astrological. The first is our automatic reaction to people who are weak. I recently saw a TV programme about a penguin rescue centre in South Africa. People found a penguin wandering around on the beach and they realised it was blind, so they brought it to the rescue centre which housed rescued penguins before releasing them back into the wild, but the other penguins all turned on the blind one! They realised it was blind and couldn't stand up for itself, so they attacked it. Perhaps it is a throwback to an earlier evolutionary state where we don't want to have to support the weak. The way to overcome this, in my opinion, is to have compassion for these people, and we feel much more comfortable ourselves when we are focussing on compassion rather than disgust, so it's a win-win solution.

Another possibility is that he has said something slightly suggestive to you, perhaps just flirtatious or an unsophisticated attempt to be charming, and he is not your type for so many reasons other than astrology, for example he is the wrong age, and you are worried that you do not know how to rebuff him or make it clear to him that you are not interested, so you are worrying about the situation and that worry is an uncomfortable feeling, so in your mind you link him with an unpleasant feeling. If this is the reason the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to avoid him, to make it clear to him that of course it isn't even a question that you would be interested in someone his age, to let him see how you behave around people that you are interested in and to compare how different it is to the way you behave towards him, and to just put him out of your mind.

Sorry I can't be more astrological.

So anyway I’m trying to guess his chart. All I got for certain is he’s an early baby boomer. And he has a weak Mars and/or Sun. That I find pathetic…and sad…......and embarrassing.
I've rejected him soooo many times, but he keeps coming back for more. I'm insulted he would think he's good enough....or YOUNG enough!! Hello! I just don’t understand how any man can completely lack self-esteem and be okay with it….you are not supposed to be okay with that kind of self hate! I just don’t understand!! How can a man live with himself after advertising to the world how pathetic he is? Tell me I’m wrong. What man in this day and age - or ever! has behaved this way? He mush be an alien!!
Boy!! Do I sound mean Oh well! I'm not gonna apologize for having a healthy ego and self-esteem and expecting others to be the same

There really should be a hair flip smiley..

Toky.lights-- There is nobody out there. Seriously.

Each of us creates how we experience people in our universe. We are always the one who shows up when we have a negative reaction to someone. The question is, why would you create some guy in a disrespectful manner when he is simply minding his own business or trying to be nice to you? What does your experience of him call up as some sort of negative in your own life experience?

I don't mean this harshly: we are all like this.

I don't know what is your gender, but I wonder how your own Mars is situated. Alternatively, if you picked a planetary placement that best represents this guy, what would it be? A truism of modern astrology is that we either:

(a) express our planets in a positive way
(b) express our planets in a negative way (or a mix of both)
(c) Or we suppress a planet in our horoscope because it represents an energy that is unacceptable to us. But the chart will express itself in some fashion, so then we tend to attract to ourselves people who seemingly embody the negative traits.

If you are male, maybe you have a deepseated fear of being insufficiently masculine. If you are a woman, maybe you have pasted your own Mars on men in your life.

Something else to keep in mind is that older men do "slow down" sexually--, some moreso than others. This is nature taking its course.

I agree with waybread, & not in a harsh way, but there is a buddhist saying - "We don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are." meaning that every experience that we think is 'true' is just our interpretation of the situation, and very often coloured by our projections of how we would act in that situation.

On an astrological note, in synastry I heard that people with venus in leo (like me) lose interest in people when they are not interested in us, but people with mars square the sun like the chase and challenge of someone who is not interested in them. Maybe he just doesn't have many planets in leo. Maybe his venus is triggered by one of your planets, so he likes you, but your venus isn't triggered, so it's not mutual.

Also there's a theory that when people first meet us they see the midpoint of our sun and ascendant and react to that, which may or may not be anything like the rest of our personality.

tokyo.lights said:

For example, this pervy elderly fellow (60+) who…..I don’t know why, but I view him as lacking completely in any masculine qualities. He’s not gay or transsexual – in no way would I gay bash! Just no masculine pride and self respect that you see in…pretty much all men!! Anyway, I find him slightly…..kinda revolting. I know!! That’s terrible, and he’s old,

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I guess you won't get any assistance from this "OLD" professional astrologer.

Its too bad that your bigotry in an area where sooner that you believe you will have the same condition ruins things for you. When you are also old, you will wonder where the years went and how fast they disappeared for you, and you will wish that some young man would look at you the same way that that "old man" does now. But you really won't know the real meaning of the look for another 40 years. It will be on top of you before you know it.

Alrighty then! lol. So anyway, going back to what I was saying, I think Saturn may play a heavy role in this. I know Saturn is often involved where there’s disapproval. So it’s possible my Saturn hard aspects his Mars or Sun. Of course with my Saturn&Pluto conjunction, if someone’s planets fall within the death-trap of the brothers of doom, it means he’s getting ping ponged between Saturn&Pluto. How unsportsmanlike! But back to Saturn! There’s definitely some Saturn going on, as I deeply disapprove of his grovelling admiration. Years and years of rejection and he still keeps crawling back. How many times can you metaphorically kick someone in the face until they pick up their pride and go away? Oh wait, you’d have to possess pride. I bet he’s built a shrine for me I’d be flattered someone has dedicated their life to idolizing me, if the whole thing wasn't so….disgusting. Yes! That’s 100% Saturn disapproval right there! I don’t approve of this colossal level of clingy-ness and self-degrading-ness. It’s embarrassing!! Tell me it’s not embarrassing!! How can any man totally lack this level of self-esteem? It’s not normal!
I believe his natal chart must have a crippled Mars and/or Sun. Perhaps his parents treated him as if he had no value, and it has stuck! Yes that’s mean, but I’m not gonna lie, it’s probably what happened. I’ve read Mars-Pluto natives can battle with self-hate and self-sabotage, so that could explain it. But no one aspect can explain this monstrous level of pathetic-ness. Hmmm....back to the drawing board to play detective!

Why are you so nasty to this man? Think about what kind of person you have become around him. Not a pretty picture. If you don't like him, just be polite but remote.

You've made up a story about him that disempowers you both.

This man is a human being; and as such, is entitled to a modicum of dignity and respect.

Which planet is involved with blind admiration? Initially I thought Jupiter, but blind is definitely Neptune territory. Plus late 1940s born oldies have(or had if they’re deceased ) Neptune opposing my Venus. That may explain his complete oblivion to my categorical contempt. This will also explain his masochistic, subservient and humiliating behavior. Psychologically, people who have no self-esteem will readily seek out someone who will reject them to support their self-hating internal beliefs. A therapist (a real one with a medical degree) should examine him. He is a first in human history!
**In addition, my having Venus and Mars in assertive, egoic signs…I’m extra disgusted by his behavior. Maybe if I had a more mellow Venu&Mars I’d be less revolted? .....mmmmm.....Nope! I don’t think so. Jesus would be disgusted by this man. It’s funny cause, in pursuing me, its’….almost as if he thinks he stands a chance. A hamster stands a better chance of being with me. At least they're cute!! lol
I have Venus in a fire sign, if I was interested he would have known. It's been almost a decade......TAURUS in Venus wouldn't keep someone waiting that long. Why wont this crypt keeper take a God dam/n hint?
On the plus side, in less than 10 years he'll be dead. So something to look forward to.

tokyo.lights, you are sounding more and more like a mean-spirited person. I am not saying you are one, but is this your intent?

Think also about karma. Not the inter-life one, but what happens in this life. If you are mean to a well-meaning senior, you are actually helping to create a world in which you can expect nasty treatment as a senior yourself. Is this the kind of society to which you are committed?

You don't suppose this harmless old guy is a Christian, do you? Sounds like he is "turning the other cheek." "Blessed are the meek..." Or what if he were really an avatar in disguise, in your life to show you a mirror of your behaviour?

Do you suffer from ageism, as well as a personal dislike of this particular older person?

Tokyo.Lights, you sound Histrionic. You have ignored every input given here, after you have asked for it. You enjoy the attention and theatrical behaviour. You have not even provided a chart.

Many people get pestered/harassed/stalked by individuals with all sorts of different problems. It does not have to be related to self-esteem and it does not have to be related to sexual attraction. If someone is pestering you even after you have told them to stop, you can just call the police and even get a restraining order. Problem solved. You have not done this. Alternatively, if you are indifferent to the man himself, overlook him and the situation.

The fact you are neither reporting him nor overlooking him shows that your interest is in perpetuating this dialogue. That you invite opinion shows you want attention. Yet as you ignore all extraneous input, this is really just a theatrical monologue.

Since your mind is troubled about this and it has affected you so dramatically, and you have been unwilling to end the situation safely, if the option of seeing a professional is open to you, maybe you could consider doing that. Peace <3

Probably projection occuring. There is weakness you reject the existence of in yourself, perhaps you value courage. So that part of you that is weak or scared is repressed so swiftly you're not conscious of it. But it still exists within you, if it was not repressed and was accepted it would actually paradoxically create more courage, to say "I am weak" "I am a coward" "I have been a coward." Then you are accepting yourself to admit such things, which makes you more whole and leads to self improvement and strength. But since it is repressed it exists in your psyche, your consciousness still, this fearful ignoring of unaccepted feelings you've felt or opinions of behaviors in the past. And it is reminded when you see someone demonstrating the weakness. I see no reason for such a powerful, feeling-filled reaction to someone unless those feelings already exist within you to be evoked when an association is triggered.

Or some might say, if you feel the need to be mean to someone because they are weak, it automatically makes you weaker than them. Just food for thought (to the OP).

OK, so you can't accept not everybody is the same as you... How old are you perchance?