Houses Generally

[Cypocryphy]

I made a graph for anyone new to astrology or horary astrology to get a quick grasp of what they are and the primary meaning behind them.

[Cypocryphy]

A Law of Divination

The greater the urgency, the more needed the answer, the more dire the situation underlying the impetus of the question---the more accurate that answer shall be. When a follow-up question has been asked on the same topic, the accuracy decreases significantly. This is due to the first answer satisfying the need. Certainly a desire for clarity will not disrupt the accuracy of a second question, though it will depend on one's subjective understanding of the initial question. If it is only to test the universe to see if it will provide a more palatable answer, the answer will be inaccurate to the point of being useless. If you refrain from asking superfluous questions, you will receive adequate answers to your callings. This is universal law.

[Moog]

I don't really understand some of the assignment of houses to day and night. I think I get the idea, but some of them seem a bit weird. Is that based on anything particular?

[Cypocryphy]

Hey Moog:

Yeah. The night houses are, of course, the houses the Sun passes through at night, and the night houses are those oriented toward Self (procession of the equinox). The opposite is the situation for the other houses. Does that answer your question?

See ya,
C.

[Moog]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Hey Moog:

Yeah. The night houses are, of course, the houses the Sun passes through at night, and the night houses are those oriented toward Self (procession of the equinox). The opposite is the situation for the other houses. Does that answer your question?

See ya,
C.

Of course, dim of me not to see that, perhaps because you noted them in reverse.

The inner/outer, north/south split doesn't work.

I don't think the qualities you've assigned to day/night houses make sense in a lot of cases. Some they do.

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by Moog

The inner/outer, north/south split doesn't work.

How so?

I don't think the qualities you've assigned to day/night houses make sense in a lot of cases. Some they do.

How come?

[Moog]

The 5th house is night; subjective; private.

It's not really, is it?

Neither the 6th, or 3rd.

12th is group oriented? How so? 8th? Doesn't make sense to me. The 8th is objective? In what way?

These labels just don't make sense when applied in groups to clusters of houses simply because they share a hemisphere of the chart.

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by Moog

The 5th house is night; subjective; private.

It's not really, is it?

Neither the 6th, or 3rd.

12th is group oriented? How so? 8th? Doesn't make sense to me. The 8th is objective? In what way?

These labels just don't make sense when applied in groups to clusters of houses simply because they share a hemisphere of the chart.

Yeah! I see what your are saying, and I suppose it seems counter-intuitive to think of, say, the 5th house has subjective or private. (It is a night house, obviously.) But if you think of the fifth in the sense that it deals with your personal enjoyment, your sex life, your children, your self-gratification, then you can see how it is subjective, personal and private.

The sixth house, in turn, is your work environment, your health, your work and labor, your service to others, etc. And the third is certainly your local environment. It is much closer to self than is the ninth.

The twelfth is spirituality, which is collective. It is traditionally secret enemies, which is other than yourself. It is charity and welfare programs, thus group oriented. It is regulation by others.

The eighth is other people's resources, their talents, their valuables, money borrowed from others.

You see?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Yeah! I see what your are saying, and I suppose it seems counter-intuitive to think of, say, the 5th house has subjective or private. (It is a night house, obviously.)

IF the 5th house is 'a night house' then how is it the alleged 'natural house of the sun' when the sun is clearly related to daytime? The blazing sun lighting up the entire sky and obscuring all else therein is scarcely private IMO. Just curious

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

IF the 5th house is 'a night house' then how is it the alleged 'natural house of the sun' when the sun is clearly related to daytime? The blazing sun lighting up the entire sky and obscuring all else therein is scarcely private IMO. Just curious

That's a good question, JupiterAsc.

These are dilineations ascribed by medieval astrologers and their predecessors, for example, the Greeks. So why do you think the Greeks ascribed the Sun to Leo when the Sun has set and is projecting its beems at the opposite end of the Earth? What do you think their reasoning was?

Perhaps it was due to the Sun's rulership being that of Leo, the fifth sign, not necessarily the fifth house. That's my belief.

But I'll let you contemplate it, and then maybe you can discover the reason for the association . . . a tip of the hat to the Greeks, so to speak, and their socratic method.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

That's a good question, JupiterAsc.

These are dilineations ascribed by medieval astrologers and their predecessors, for example, the Greeks. So why do you think the Greeks ascribed the Sun to Leo when the Sun has set and is projecting its beems at the opposite end of the Earth? What do you think their reasoning was?

Perhaps it was due to the Sun's rulership being that of Leo, the fifth sign, not necessarily the fifth house. That's my belief.

But I'll let you contemplate it, and then maybe you can discover the reason for the association . . . a tip of the hat to the Greeks, so to speak, and their socratic method.

I'm assuming you have no answer then to that 'good question' Cypocryphy ... btw the question I asked relates specifically solely to 'Modern Astrology' because in ancient times, including the time of Ancient Greeks such as Vettius Valens there was a different form of reasoning

Completely different from the 'Modern' reasoning that apparently 'connects' Sun to 5th house as 'natural ruler'

You are of course entitled to your opinion on this matter

[tsmall]

Personally, I prefer to go with the Thema Mundi for house associations, as well as understanding why the planets were allocated to which signs.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52099

[Cypocryphy]

Are you trying to play an "I gotchya" game with me? The planets are primarily associated with signs, not houses.

Additionally, when we use "night" and "day," they are being used in this sense for their symbolic, subjective meanings, that being "day" outward manifestations, and then "night" personal, inward manifestations. So these qualities are associated with these southern and northern hemispheres. This is, in the same sense, how "feminine" and "masculine" are used. We are not literally talking about gender but, rather, energies. That is the underpinning for the usage of day and night.

[JUPITERASC]

tsmall may have been referring to Whole Sign, the original house system that designates one whole sign for one whole house

Since then, over a couple of thousand years, house systems have multiplied... now we have more than forty house systems - fourteen of those are available for experimentation on astro.com

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by tsmall

Personally, I prefer to go with the Thema Mundi for house associations, as well as understanding why the planets were allocated to which signs.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52099

Hey. Thanks. I'll check that out.

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

I'm assuming you have no answer then to that 'good question' Cypocryphy ... btw the question I asked relates specifically solely to 'Modern Astrology' because in ancient times, including the time of Ancient Greeks such as Vettius Valens there was a different form of reasoning

Completely different from the 'Modern' reasoning that apparently 'connects' Sun to 5th house as 'natural ruler'

You are of course entitled to your opinion on this matter

Hey. You've got to share now! What was the Ancient Greeks reasoning?

[tsmall]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Are you trying to play an "I gotchya" game with me? The planets are primarily associated with signs, not houses.

No, no games. Just something else to consider. The Thema is an ancient teaching tool.

Yes, the planets are associated with signs, but they are also associated with houses. All astrologers, ancient and modern, give natural "house rulerships" to the planets, as well as joys that are based on house position and not on sign rulership.

Many of the definitions associated with the houses came from the natural house rulers.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Hey. You've got to share now! What was the Ancient Greeks reasoning?

Gladly. How long have you got?

Siriusly though Cypocryphy here's some info on just one of those ancient ways of thinking - and there's even something on the 5th house as well. btw JMO it's important to remember that the Greeks were themselves influenced by many cultures

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

It appears that the Thema Mundi is an Hellenistic astrological teaching aid

Eric Francis notes: “Thema Mundi is the chart that truly is one of the ancient keys to astrology. Keys lead to doors and doors lead to different places... this is the beginning of an adventure”. And fwiw, IMO tsmall, many astrologers agree with the Thema Mundi placing of Cancer as the 'natural first house' instead of Aries.

An example is the following 97 word extract, sourced from an article viewable at http://planetwavesweekly.com/dadatemp/1832374392.html

QUOTE:
“Cancer, sign of mothering associates with the 1st, house of incarnation, where one comes into tangible form.

Aries is Thema Mundi 10th house of fiery initiative, career, fame, worldly expression. Capricorn does not fit the outgoing initiative required of 10th.

Aries as the natural sign associated with 10th helps us understand Aries Point, which seems closer in meaning to 10th than to Ascendant.

Children are often conceived in 5th house - overlaying the house of passionate sex with the sign of mysteries of birth and death makes sense. A fun romance, can involve you deeper than you planned”

[Cypocryphy]

Ha ha. Sure. The Joy of the fifth is Venus, I think . . .

Anyway, yeah. I am familiar with the natural rulers of the houses. Their use is very important in chart interpretation, especially when occupied by the luminaries. And the Sun's nature is very much associated with the fifth, but perhaps this contradicting condition of the fifth being a night house, yet the home of the Sun, can be regulated by not taking the meanings literally but taking them for their subjective effect.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Ha ha. Sure. The Joy of the fifth is Venus, I think . . .

Anyway, yeah. I am familiar with the natural rulers of the houses. Their use is very important in chart interpretation, especially when occupied by the luminaries. And the Sun's nature is very much associated with the fifth, but perhaps this contradicting condition of the fifth being a night house, yet the home of the Sun, can be regulated by not taking the meanings literally but taking them for their subjective effect.

The form of reasoning you have mentioned is not for those who have alternative opinions e.g. for example Hellenistic astrologers and of course, their ancient predecessors

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by tsmall

No, no games. Just something else to consider. The Thema is an ancient teaching tool.

Yes, the planets are associated with signs, but they are also associated with houses. All astrologers, ancient and modern, give natural "house rulerships" to the planets, as well as joys that are based on house position and not on sign rulership.

Many of the definitions associated with the houses came from the natural house rulers.

I am unfamiliar with Thema, so I'll check it out. Thanks, Tsmall

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

The form of reasoning you have mentioned is not for those who have alternative opinions e.g. for example Hellenistic astrologers and of course, their ancient predecessors

Sure. But as we all very well know, astrology is fraught with opinions and differences. There is rarely an agreement on the "rules and regulations." From Western astrology to Vedic astrology, to Hellenistic to New Age, there is a multitude of variations and differences, each differing path somehow leading to the same destination. And it should be noted that astrology is not simply "arithmetic" with protractor and pen. There is something more involved, especially when we are dealing with overlaying symbolic archetypes interpreted not only objectively but subjectively as well.

By the way, e.g. means exemlpi gratia, which is Latin for "for example" or literally, "for the sake of an example," so you don't have to say e.g, for example because you have already done so.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

Sure. But as we all very well know, astrology is fraught with opinions and differences. There is rarely an agreement on the "rules and regulations." From Western astrology to Vedic astrology, to Hellenistic to New Age, there is a multitude of variations and differences, each differing path somehow leading to the same destination. And it should be noted that astrology is not simply "arithmetic" with protractor and pen. There is something more involved, especially when we are dealing with overlaying symbolic archetypes interpreted not only objectively but subjectively as well.

Exactly.... you agree then that the posts by you and everyone else who has posted on this thread - including myself - are simply our personal opinions.

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

By the way, e.g. means exemlpi gratia, which is Latin for "for example" or literally, "for the sake of an example," so you don't have to say e.g, for example because you have already done so.

Cypocryphy, that's exactly why I wrote e.g. for example - because I don't have to

[Cypocryphy]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Exactly.... you agree then that the posts by you and everyone else who has posted on this thread - including myself - are simply our personal opinions.

I'm not sure where this is going anymore. But to answer your question, yes, I do know that these are all opinions. That should go without saying.

The purpose of this initial post was to help others with simple delineations on houses when casting horary charts. I made it because it was helpful to me. It helped me to quickly remember simple associations. Because of this, I thought it would help others, so I posted it. It might not be helpful to others. Others might not agree with the associations. That is, of course, perfectly fine. This is not about being right or wrong—it is about being helpful.

If someone asks me a question, I will try to answer it to the best of my knowledge. I hope it will be helpful. I hope it will assist. And when others have insight into the issue at hand, please contribute, I hope they provide their illuminating insight so it can be of help to myself or to everyone else. The posts thus far are helpful regarding the question of astrological associations. That is the point; that is the purpose. I just want to keep that in mind.

Cypocryphy, that's exactly why I wrote e.g. for example - because I don't have to

I do not understand this last statement. You did so because you didn't have to? What do you mean?

It's as if I said, "I'm going to the store in the automobile car to pick up some dinner" And then someone says that you don't have to say automobile car, you can just say that you are going in the car. And then I say, I said "automobile car" because I didn't have to.

What does that mean? (I'm not picking; I just want to know.)

[Moog]

Originally Posted by Cypocryphy

The purpose of this initial post was to help others with simple delineations on houses when casting horary charts. I made it because it was helpful to me. It helped me to quickly remember simple associations. Because of this, I thought it would help others, so I posted it. It might not be helpful to others. Others might not agree with the associations. That is, of course, perfectly fine. This is not about being right or wrong—it is about being helpful.

Yes. My motivation in questioning the attributes you've assigned to certain houses is also based on a desire to be helpful. I worry that people may acquire the wrong impression based on some of these ideas. Learning astrology is already confusing enough.