MissScorpio
Well-known member
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Mental illness
- Thread starter MissScorpio
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How do you make a leap from schizophrenia to serial killers *etc*?
Mental illness? This is a label for all sorts of conditions from anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, thought disorder such as schizophrenia,.....and others, none of which make a serial killer of themselves
In answer, I dont know of any research or studies astro wise for mental deranged killers, rapists, gangland bosses, and ll who live in violence, and I dont believe you can look at any chart and see this...
Some say an afflicted mars via outer planets could be a pointer, as mars is the planet of violence amongst other thngs, same pointer could point to a brilliant surgeon eg......but like much else in astrology there is too much to consider...there is no one sign IMO
if anyone knows any different would love to hear it
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miquar
Well-known member
Hi. None of us are completely mentally healthy. The question when looking at a chart is not whether or not it suggests mental illness, but rather what kinds of possible dis-ease seem most likely.
There is a book by Liz Greene called Dark of the Soul, which I think you would find fascinating.
There is a book by Liz Greene called Dark of the Soul, which I think you would find fascinating.
Marinka
Well-known member
Your question is too broad while it appears you are looking for specifics in the answer. There are many different types of mental illness ranging from ones caused by drugs overuse to serial killers. In between, there are people with mild issues such as obsessive behaviors and inappropriate social responses. None of these are diagnosed with a planet in a particular placement or a certain angle between two planets.
I might suggest pulling up data from the database on astro.com of serial killers or whatever "mental illness" that you are looking for and see if there are common elements between the charts.
There are also quite a few books on amazon.com if you search for "astrology killers".
I might suggest pulling up data from the database on astro.com of serial killers or whatever "mental illness" that you are looking for and see if there are common elements between the charts.
There are also quite a few books on amazon.com if you search for "astrology killers".
Do you have any qualifications as a professional in the areas of mental illness, emotional illness, counseling etc? I'd be looking for at least a Masters in Counseling psychology or equivalent and a good amount of clinical field experience.
Failing that, this is an area which even a little bit of knowledge might be too much. You won't know what's what. Its one of the biggest problems I have with the Noel Tyl Psychological Astrology training course. 99% of its graduates know nothing about clinical psychology except what Noel Tyl(who himself was a opera singer, and has a BA in sociology from about 1954) to tell them.
Failing that, this is an area which even a little bit of knowledge might be too much. You won't know what's what. Its one of the biggest problems I have with the Noel Tyl Psychological Astrology training course. 99% of its graduates know nothing about clinical psychology except what Noel Tyl(who himself was a opera singer, and has a BA in sociology from about 1954) to tell them.
Signs of Mental Illness by Mitchell E. Gibson
Astro Psychology by Glenn Perry (also other books by him)
Bakers three volume Encyclopedia of Astrology (Esoteric astrology) has a lot of information and references/associations to various psychological complexes.
Any and all books by Martha Lang Wescott related to Transneptuians, start with the Mechanics book and go from there.
Encyclopedia of Medical Astrology by Cornell, (1930s) written well before the term schiz became popular - but has all the related symptoms addressed in the book and the planets associated with the symptoms.
THE MAGIC THREAD: Astrological Chart Interpretation Using Depth Psychology - Richard Idemon
Jungian Symbolism by Howell has interesting info related to various conditions.
Check out the Astro America web site for more books. I will look on my shelves for more titles has I have a ton of OOP books that may not be currently listed
I'll add this disclaimer to the above book suggestions. The fact that you or someone you know has a particular stellar combination that may indicate a disease or behavior -know that there are millions of people out of the six billion here on Earth that have the same stellar combination and may lead perfectly normal lives. In other words, do not look at a single stellar combination in a persons chart and say that he/she has a particular disease.
Good Point!
Also my experience is that each disorder has its own special fingerprint. And you have to know the disorder pretty well to figure it out.
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Lol, yes I have that book! Thanks
Pioneer Modernist Charles Carter* came to regard the 3rd house (and also its lord) as often indicative of mental health problems; personality problems, of course, would call for special investigation of the ascendant and its dipositor; Vedic astrology especially points to the Moon and its sign (called the "chandra lagna"-ie lunar ascendant-in that system) Those who have investigated the Lots point to the Part of Fortune and the Part of Spirit, their signs and their dispositors, as significant for mental and spiritual health or imbalance.
(an interesting book by Carter is his "Encyclopedia of Psychological Astrology")
(an interesting book by Carter is his "Encyclopedia of Psychological Astrology")
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waybread
Well-known member
I have looked at charts of a fair sample of mentally ill people in the Astro-DataBank at www.astro.com . I don't think there is one signature for mental illness. As some of the others have pointed out, there are different types of mental illness. With different manifestations, there is no reason to assume a single cause.
I would say that a moon conjunct some planetary heavies showed up frequently in the charts I looked at, but was by no means found in all of them.
If you would define alcoholism and drug addiction as mental health issues, Neptune square a personal planet is fairly common. Saturn squaring the sun, moon, or Mercury can lead to depressed thinking, but sadness and self-blame are not necessarily clinical depression. Similarly, people with Mars retrograde, especially when it is opposite the sun, are very hard on themselves, but this may or may not mean serious depression.
In contrast, many people have "see-saw" charts with a lot of oppositions, but do not bipolar.
I would say that a moon conjunct some planetary heavies showed up frequently in the charts I looked at, but was by no means found in all of them.
If you would define alcoholism and drug addiction as mental health issues, Neptune square a personal planet is fairly common. Saturn squaring the sun, moon, or Mercury can lead to depressed thinking, but sadness and self-blame are not necessarily clinical depression. Similarly, people with Mars retrograde, especially when it is opposite the sun, are very hard on themselves, but this may or may not mean serious depression.
In contrast, many people have "see-saw" charts with a lot of oppositions, but do not bipolar.
Blackempress
Well-known member
I've been working az a psychiatrist lately so agree with those who say each mental disorder would have it's own print. Personality disorders themselves can lead to social maladjustment which could lead to mental illness.
Depression I read & agree is common-we all have Saturn pulling us down somewhere. In my opinion with hard aspects to personal planets it may undermine a person's self-esteem whether in beauty/worth (Venus), confidence/assertion (Mars) or identity/love (sun/moon).
Neptune happens to have the highest rate of notoriety in terms of delusions, substance abuse, dreams & derealisation. Neptune aspects to emotions/ identity & likely even mercury + Acs/Mc can denote loss of reality representing schizophrenia or addiction. (Don't forget Pisces influence).
Personal opinion, I find bipolar & histrionic traits in Leonine types :could be talking 5th house (stalliums (bad aspects) or Leo characteristics via sun/moon/venus.
Antisocial likely would be misplaced Mars/moon/Pluto with bad aspects, 8th or 12th house where sense of morality is low.
Going to perform researches on patients once I start my own practice.
Depression I read & agree is common-we all have Saturn pulling us down somewhere. In my opinion with hard aspects to personal planets it may undermine a person's self-esteem whether in beauty/worth (Venus), confidence/assertion (Mars) or identity/love (sun/moon).
Neptune happens to have the highest rate of notoriety in terms of delusions, substance abuse, dreams & derealisation. Neptune aspects to emotions/ identity & likely even mercury + Acs/Mc can denote loss of reality representing schizophrenia or addiction. (Don't forget Pisces influence).
Personal opinion, I find bipolar & histrionic traits in Leonine types :could be talking 5th house (stalliums (bad aspects) or Leo characteristics via sun/moon/venus.
Antisocial likely would be misplaced Mars/moon/Pluto with bad aspects, 8th or 12th house where sense of morality is low.
Going to perform researches on patients once I start my own practice.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
I still thing that we need to continue to pursue and understanding of the whole cognitive process in astrology first before we start trying to define deviations from normality.
Some deviations are more significant than others, but the whole thing has been done largely in a piecemeal way.
I've been working for sometime over the past 5 months toward re-defining the cognitive quotient of my Seven Quotients of Astrology©.
I have defined the three major brain structures: the reptilian brain, the limbic brain(where emotional disorders arise), and the cortical brain(where real mental disorders arise). The feeling brain is liable to disorders of feelings, whereas the cortical brain is liable to disorders of thought or thinking chaos.
We can look clearly at the characteristics and the astrological structures that make up each of these for humans. But its a lot like the difference between trying to understand learn disability and Asperger Syndrome(autistic disorders). If you seen one learning disabled child, you have a pretty good idea of how to deal with all. If you've seen one child with Asperger Syndrome, you've seen one child with Asperger syndrome. While we can define the various issues such as loss of executive function, how each person's cortex deals with it is pretty much dependent on the filters that their cortex uses to work in the world.
My chapter on this in my book is already over 150 pages of intensely described information and it shows no signs of slowing down.
So perhaps, once we can begin to define the structures of cognitive functioning specifically, then we can determine how severe deviations can be identified.
I do believe that this will eventually come to the nuances provided by asteroids. Using asteroids, I have already been able to put a pretty clear picture of Borderline Personality Disorder together. But then again, I have a pretty good experiential understanding of the disorder since a very close family member has it.
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From a student of Astrology, me on "aspects showing any mental illness"
According to the Rosicrucian teachings:
(this was in a chart study)
We have found that Neptune square Saturn and Jupiter brought mental disturbances; Neptune conjunction Mars in Aries, square Uranus and the Moon in Cancer caused temporary instability of a periodic nature; Neptune conjunction Moon square Uranus caused spirit control.
People are not congenitally affected, who have cardinal signs rising, particularly if cardinal or fixed signs also invest the Midheaven and Nadir. The active nature forbids morbid tendencies and blues, disappointment is quickly thrown off and hope springs eternal in the cardinal breast urging to renewed struggle with conditions. It is said that the exception proves the rule, and when Capricorn rises the saturnine rulership gives a tendency to melancholy which under certain aggravating circumstances may provoke suicide, particularly when the ruler is cooped up in the Eighth House, the house of death; this robs the person of joy in life and impels him to end it under stress of sorrow.
It therefore follows that the mentally unbalanced come principally from those born with Common signs on the angles. The intrinsic nature of these signs if flexibility; as a reed in the wind people under these signs are swayed hither and thither by circumstances; they have no stamina or stability, and take reverses much to heart, while they last. Sorrow seems to overwhelm them and balance is easily lost.
According to the Rosicrucian teachings:
(this was in a chart study)
We have found that Neptune square Saturn and Jupiter brought mental disturbances; Neptune conjunction Mars in Aries, square Uranus and the Moon in Cancer caused temporary instability of a periodic nature; Neptune conjunction Moon square Uranus caused spirit control.
People are not congenitally affected, who have cardinal signs rising, particularly if cardinal or fixed signs also invest the Midheaven and Nadir. The active nature forbids morbid tendencies and blues, disappointment is quickly thrown off and hope springs eternal in the cardinal breast urging to renewed struggle with conditions. It is said that the exception proves the rule, and when Capricorn rises the saturnine rulership gives a tendency to melancholy which under certain aggravating circumstances may provoke suicide, particularly when the ruler is cooped up in the Eighth House, the house of death; this robs the person of joy in life and impels him to end it under stress of sorrow.
It therefore follows that the mentally unbalanced come principally from those born with Common signs on the angles. The intrinsic nature of these signs if flexibility; as a reed in the wind people under these signs are swayed hither and thither by circumstances; they have no stamina or stability, and take reverses much to heart, while they last. Sorrow seems to overwhelm them and balance is easily lost.