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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #26  
Unread 08-31-2016, 09:19 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
That's interesting stuff, Julia. Can you say a bit more about those differences?
Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia

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  #27  
Unread 08-31-2016, 09:21 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
I really love this thought. In a way, the soul has already crystallised our physical reality before birth and we are actually just living it out ..and navigating it. Like a video game.
I had not thought about this analogy, but yes to some extent this fits.
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  #28  
Unread 08-31-2016, 09:24 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Yeah, Abraham-Hicks compare it to a vacation. You've read your travel guide, chosen your itinerary and then off you go. But the destinations on your list are not mandatory. You can change your itinerary any time or even call off the entire vacation any time and go home.
Well stated!

The only thing I would disagree with is calling incarnations on Earth a "vacation".
Not true from most of us. Earth is a tough school.

Julia
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Unread 08-31-2016, 09:47 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Julia, your version of karma is most refreshing. I like it.

I guess what typically bothers me about a lot of karmic astrology is the view that if someone is miserably unhappy in this life, they must have been a rotten person in a previous life. Too often, there are astrologers ready to reinforce this unhappiness, even though they cannot truthfully say what the person's past life or lives were about.
I am bothered by the same thing.

To say that this life is a deserved punishment for bad past behavior seems simplistic and missing the point of reincarnation and spirituality. I believe that the entire universe is hard wired for evolution and growth. And that is the focus of karma.

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The opposite danger with a choice-centered view of incarnation is the belief that victims deliberately chose their current problems, so there's no point in trying to help them.

Because our own incarnation might just be all about helping victims, out of a chosen sense of compassion.

And so on.
Yes exactly, I totally agree. Some of the beliefs just don't make any logical or spiritual sense.

I am widely read on spiritual, esoteric topics, and some of the new age viewpoints, I can only shake my head.

We are souls incarnating on earth to learn as much as we can for the purpose of soul evolution. Towards that end, we come here and work our way around the zodiac until we have learned all we can learn on Earth and are ready to move on. All of us have been saints, all of us have been sinners. And everything in between. There is no judgement about that. We are here to learn the entire gamut of human experience for soul growth.

And of course we are here to help others and to make the planet a better place. I do not think we are meant to just take up space.

Julia
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  #30  
Unread 09-01-2016, 01:46 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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  #31  
Unread 09-01-2016, 02:27 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

I've always thought that when you look at your natal chart it's like looking into a pool of water for the first time.
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  #32  
Unread 09-01-2016, 03:21 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
I've always thought that when you look at your natal chart it's like looking into a pool of water for the first time.
An interesting metaphor. I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.
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  #33  
Unread 09-01-2016, 03:25 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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An interesting metaphor. I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.
Lul, my metaphor is better

BTW, way bread. Weren't you a teacher?? Would you ever want to grade my english essays :3? You're really good at pointing out my flaws and I'm taking kind of a hard english class, so I was just wondering.
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  #34  
Unread 09-01-2016, 03:33 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post

I've always thought that when you look at your natal chart
it's like looking into a pool of water for the first time.

makes sense
water reflects


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

An interesting metaphor.
I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.

mechanic reparis stuff
It's all perspective
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  #35  
Unread 09-01-2016, 05:36 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

AppLeo, I'm not quite up for grading papers, but you can PM me about anything particular tough. Only problem, is that my field wasn't English composition.
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  #36  
Unread 09-01-2016, 05:45 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

You could say that many followers of astrology over-estimate astrological influence, but this quote from Bashar goes too far in claiming no influence. Edgar Cayce stated 80% of life (outcomes) is free will, but the 20% of outer influence is still substantial.
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  #37  
Unread 09-01-2016, 06:08 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Omg Kannon is back!
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  #38  
Unread 09-01-2016, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia
Hi Julia ,
Thank you for your insight !!

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.

Regarding the point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract the similar type of lovers of again and again.
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  #39  
Unread 09-01-2016, 08:34 AM
RaRohini RaRohini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia
Hi Julia ,
Thank you for your insight !!

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.

Regarding the point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract similar type of lovers of again and again. It is a pattern.
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  #40  
Unread 09-01-2016, 12:37 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by Astro7 View Post
This reminds me of something I've heard and thought about in the past regarding astrology. Most people seem to think that Astrology is about the STARS having INFLUENCE ON US, when in reality I think it is much more likely that the stars and planets may possibly be merely a PARALLEL to what is going on in the universe at any given moment, but the massive objects themselves are NOT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL INFLUENCERS - if that makes sense.

What I'm saying is that essentially people think the planets themselves are the ones making events happen, but I'm saying that the planets and their positions are simply the visual representation - a map if you will - of how different energies are currently interacting and exerting force in the universe - so it is a visual guide - not that the actual gravitational force of each specific planet is having a physical effect on humans from Earth.

CAPS for EMPHASIS lol.
Astro,

Thank you for posting your idea which is intriguing, makes sense, and answers questions. I agree that the planets in our solar system are not acting in isolation. They are connected to the rest of the universe. And perhaps they are just receivers for cosmic energy.

Julia
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  #41  
Unread 09-01-2016, 01:24 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post

Hi Julia ,

Thank you for your insight !!
RaRohini,

So good to hear from you. I was hoping you would add your comments!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.
This is a great way to put it! In the general scheme of things it is all fated. It is fated that we will all grow and evolve, we will come off the karmic wheel. We will return to the Divine. And the energies given to us for each incarnation do have fated components. But then it is up to us how we will live each life and that is where free will comes in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
The point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract the similar type of lovers of again and again.
I have a great deal of respect for arranged marriages, given the high degree of happiness and stability of my friend's arranged marriages! The US could learn something from such a method of mate selection.

I was just taken aback by the role astrology plays in such decisions. I think this speaks to another difference between Eastern and Western astrology, the role it plays in day to day life. For example, I urge people not to make major life decisions based upon astrology alone, but see it more as an adjunctive tool. In the Eastern tradition, astrology plays a much more critical and central role in life decisions.

And yes of course, there is no denying that we keep repeating relationship patterns over and over again which we can attribute to fated energies. I see your point then, it makes no difference if the marriage is arranged or self selected, the energies will create the same patterns no matter how the marriage was determined.

Julia
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  #42  
Unread 09-01-2016, 01:31 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
An interesting metaphor. I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.
It feels more like this for me.
Opening up something and examining the situation carefully.

When I am seeing a chart for the first time, I feel like I am in a huge room,
walking around, looking, examining, picking up things, putting them down.
Wandering around looking for clues and pieces of a puzzle. I am trying to put
things together and make sense of it. Hoping to put pieces together to make a coherent whole.
There is so much data in a chart it can feel overwhelming at first, but then it all starts
to fall into place.

Julia
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  #43  
Unread 09-01-2016, 01:48 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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AppLeo, I'm not quite up for grading papers, but you can PM me about anything particular tough. Only problem, is that my field wasn't English composition.
Ohh... I see
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  #44  
Unread 09-02-2016, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
RaRohini,

So good to hear from you. I was hoping you would add your comments!



This is a great way to put it! In the general scheme of things it is all fated. It is fated that we will all grow and evolve, we will come off the karmic wheel. We will return to the Divine. And the energies given to us for each incarnation do have fated components. But then it is up to us how we will live each life and that is where free will comes in.



I have a great deal of respect for arranged marriages, given the high degree of happiness and stability of my friend's arranged marriages! The US could learn something from such a method of mate selection.

I was just taken aback by the role astrology plays in such decisions. I think this speaks to another difference between Eastern and Western astrology, the role it plays in day to day life. For example, I urge people not to make major life decisions based upon astrology alone, but see it more as an adjunctive tool. In the Eastern tradition, astrology plays a much more critical and central role in life decisions.

And yes of course, there is no denying that we keep repeating relationship patterns over and over again which we can attribute to fated energies. I see your point then, it makes no difference if the marriage is arranged or self selected, the energies will create the same patterns no matter how the marriage was determined.

Julia
Hi !
Much love and light to you Julia !!
Yes i sometimes feel that the western method of selecting partners is good too.. because the astrologer may go wrong in horoscope matching and moreover one loses the charm of wooing the mate !
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Unread 09-02-2016, 02:37 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Yes, I agree. We are not helpless victims. But it takes a certain level of conscious awareness to realize that.

I would say it's mostly a question of identity, of how we define ourselves.
i'd extend this statement to *if* we define ourselves see my sig notes on epistemology...

..it's difficult to perceive anything if we already have our minds made up about it, and amazingly, if reading cosmology theories on the internet and picking the one you like the most, connects more than experiencing autonomous consciousness, then, one's self definition will always be fallible to where it was sourced.


(..i like the "reflect not influence" concept, if one considers that mirrors may be distorted, tilted at an angle and such.. imo the same thoughts can be applied to any experiential stigma, if planets, why not crickets.)
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Unread 09-02-2016, 02:49 PM
RaRohini RaRohini is offline
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Originally Posted by noraleader View Post
i'd extend this statement to *if* we define ourselves see my sig notes on epistemology...

..it's difficult to perceive anything if we already have our minds made up about it, and amazingly, if reading cosmology theories on the internet and picking the one you like the most, connects more than experiencing autonomous consciousness, then, one's self definition will always be fallible to where it was sourced.


(..i like the "reflect not influence" concept, if one considers that mirrors may be distorted, tilted at an angle and such.. imo the same thoughts can be applied to any experiential stigma, if planets, why not crickets.)
Yo noraleader ! Where had you been ? 😃
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  #47  
Unread 09-02-2016, 03:00 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

only dropping in to add a minor note to another thread too busy for this field atm. tbh my posts linked in sig are really all i got worth saying anyway

hoping that people will continue to use these informations to validate and empower themselves and not their fave pet "superjugate" authorities as a species, rallying around leaders is so last century... folks spare a thought and a comment for west papua and all..
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Unread 09-02-2016, 08:14 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post

Hi !
Much love and light to you Julia !!!
Thank you RoRohini, same to you!

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post

I sometimes feel that the western method of selecting partners is good too.. because the astrologer may go wrong in horoscope matching and moreover one loses the charm of wooing the mate !
There is a lot to be said for romance and chemistry.
But practical considerations, such as compatibility, common background and goals are important as well.

LOL it is funny, you are making points for western style partner selection, I am arguing for arranged marriages! Vedic and Karmic astrologers go rogue.

Julia
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Unread 09-12-2016, 03:16 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.
Yes, every new Dasha period is basically seen as a new chapter and sub-periods as sub-chapters in your personal script of life. However, I've heard vedic astrologers say that if both marriage partners are in love with each other, then matchmaking charts aren't required anymore.

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Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.
I see the original focus in vedic astrology mostly on moksha. So there's definitely always a bigger picture involved. So this experience doesn't really matter much in the bigger scheme. But you are right, in the classic texts there are even planetary combinations for experiencing heaven or hell after death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”
That sounds a lot like Seth's approach.

The classical texts are really written that way, either sound health or plagued with severe illness, nothing in between. As a newbie who doesn't know how to synthesize a chart and put it all into perspective, it really can be depressing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia
Thanks for clarifying, Julia. The way I see it western karmic astrology is mostly in alignment with the Seth material and not at all as rigid as I initially expected. That's good to know. My personal take would be more in alignment with the Abraham-Hicks approach, i.e. no lessons to learn or rungs on ladders to climb because it is intended to be a picnic and not as a test to prove our worthiness.
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Well stated!

The only thing I would disagree with is calling incarnations on Earth a "vacation".
Not true from most of us. Earth is a tough school.

Julia
Yeah, I think that's the main difference between Seth and Abraham-Hicks. The A-H focus is usually more on the moment we arrive here, prior to socialization. And so the outlook is definitely more optimistic, playful and empowering.
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