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  #1  
Unread 08-15-2016, 04:30 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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The planets don't influence you

I just came across this quote from Bashar and I thought many here may find that interesting, so I'll share it here:

Quote:
"When you crystallize yourself, your consciousness, into physical reality you are certainly taking on the qualities of the particular moment of crystallized physical reality that is representative of what is going on at that moment of birth. You are solidifying and crystallizing certain kinds of ideas that are representative of your theme of exploration and your relationship in the collective agreement. So the planets in the sense that you are talking about astrologically are a reflection - and for those that are intuitive enough to use that particular permission slip in a certain way, they can see how the reflections might be representative of certain energies and themes that you've decided to explore and how they might be unfolding. But remember, it's just a permission slip. It's just a reflection. The planets don't influence you, they reflect what you've already chosen. They reveal you. They are a reflection like anything else."

- Bashar

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  #2  
Unread 08-16-2016, 03:09 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
I just came across this quote from Bashar and I thought many here may find that interesting, so I'll share it here:
It is quite likely that the relationship between the stars and humans is bi-directional.
That is, the cosmos influences us, but we in turn influence the cosmos.
Everything is connected, everything part of a whole.

Unfortunately humans have not quite understood this, and tend to think of themselves as helpless victims of the stars. This is simply not true.

Julia
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Unread 08-17-2016, 02:24 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Yes, I agree. We are not helpless victims. But it takes a certain level of conscious awareness to realize that.

I would say it's mostly a question of identity, of how we define ourselves. And depending on that definition we will find different explanations more or less appealing. Someone who has experienced unity consciousness will have no problem with Bashar's explanation. While someone who experiences himself as the mere mortal biological being as science describes it, will find the Bashar explanation laughable.
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Unread 08-17-2016, 09:58 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

An interesting quote, Muchacho!

I'd put it slightly differently, that souls incarnate with particular teaching and learning goals in mind. In order to pursue their goals, souls have to choose a particular time, place, and set of circumstances with which to incarnate. Among those circumstances will be challenges and assets.

This is what the chart shows us.

Are you familiar with the Jane Roberts Seth books? Seth was supposedly a disincarnate entity channelled by Roberts while she was in a trance state. Even if the metaphysics in these books is entirely her own, they are still remarkable. One major theme is that people choose their own reality, and that our thoughts of reality then manifest in seemingly material circumstances.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 03:11 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

I don't know, for example almost every Taurus I've met is hard-working, meticulous, sensual and super shallow, cool/laid back, and somewhat b**chy as well as passive aggressive. I don't think it's accurate to say the planets have no influence. The moon is well known to have an effect just ask any ER or police station on a full moon. The earth itself influences people with its energy. Why would the planets be any different?
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Unread 08-18-2016, 05:40 AM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
An interesting quote, Muchacho!

I'd put it slightly differently, that souls incarnate with particular teaching and learning goals in mind. In order to pursue their goals, souls have to choose a particular time, place, and set of circumstances with which to incarnate. Among those circumstances will be challenges and assets.

This is what the chart shows us.

Are you familiar with the Jane Roberts Seth books? Seth was supposedly a disincarnate entity channelled by Roberts while she was in a trance state. Even if the metaphysics in these books is entirely her own, they are still remarkable. One major theme is that people choose their own reality, and that our thoughts of reality then manifest in seemingly material circumstances.
Yes, I'm familiar with the Seth material. According to Seth, what incarnates are fragments of an entity (or soul) and all these incarnations are happening simultaneously and are experienced simultaneously on the entity level, which kinda destroys the popular concept of karma.

I've got some interesting quotes from Seth about astrology, too. I'll post some at a later time.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 06:46 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Yes, I'm familiar with the Seth material. According to Seth, what incarnates are fragments of an entity (or soul) and all these incarnations are happening simultaneously and are experienced simultaneously on the entity level, which kinda destroys the popular concept of karma.

I've got some interesting quotes from Seth about astrology, too. I'll post some at a later time.
I love the Seth material, and would be very interested in the references to astrology!

I see Seth's comments about simultaneous lifetimes as quite consistent with current karmic thought. Many of us no longer believe in the idea of sequential single lifetimes. Time is certainly not linear nor chronological. I have conducted a number of past life regressions, and it is apparent that souls are fragmented and time is fluid, circular or spiral. And everything is probably happening now. That is why healing a past life heals us in the present and future lives.

Very interesting discussion! Thank you.

Julia
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Unread 08-19-2016, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
I just came across this quote from Bashar and I thought many here may find that interesting, so I'll share it here:
I really love this thought. In a way, the soul has already crystallised our physical reality before birth and we are actually just living it out ..and navigating it. Like a video game.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 01:02 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
I love the Seth material, and would be very interested in the references to astrology!

I see Seth's comments about simultaneous lifetimes as quite consistent with current karmic thought. Many of us no longer believe in the idea of sequential single lifetimes. Time is certainly not linear nor chronological. I have conducted a number of past life regressions, and it is apparent that souls are fragmented and time is fluid, circular or spiral. And everything is probably happening now. That is why healing a past life heals us in the present and future lives.

Very interesting discussion! Thank you.

Julia
Not sure if you are familiar with Abraham-Hicks, but they say that you can't possibly know if your visions of a past life were actually from one of your own past lives or the past life of someone else because you only have access to what is of a similar vibration. So the past life visions you experience have more to do with your vibrational state of being right here right now than anything else. Does that resonate somehow?
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Unread 08-19-2016, 01:06 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
I really love this thought. In a way, the soul has already crystallised our physical reality before birth and we are actually just living it out ..and navigating it. Like a video game.
Yeah, Abraham-Hicks compare it to a vacation. You've read your travel guide, chosen your itinerary and then off you go. But the destinations on your list are not mandatory. You can change your itinerary any time or even call off the entire vacation any time and go home.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 01:38 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
I love the Seth material, and would be very interested in the references to astrology!
Seth quotes on astrology are extremely rare. He doesn't talk much about it. Here's a quote:

Quote:
"Consciousness, being active within all cellular structures, triggers itself ahead of time [in each case], so to speak, to react to certain conditions and not to others. Many are born the same day of any given year, and generally within the same time period - but individually the inner triggering may be far different, so that while the overall conditions at birth may appear more or less the same, the inner reactions to them will vary widely. Period."


- Seth (Unknown Reality, Session 729)
[edited quote over 100 words - against Forum rules - Moderator]
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  #12  
Unread 08-22-2016, 12:17 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Another quote from Seth:

Quote:
"Consciousness does not simply choose to be born at a certain place in space and time, but it also endows its physical organism ahead of time with certain inner triggers so that it will respond to those conditions in highly individualistic ways.

I am not even hinting at predestination or predetermination. Let us try another simple analogy. A seed 'knows' that it will come to life in the middle of a pot in someone's living room."

- Seth (Unknown Reality, Session 729)
[edited quote over 100 words, against Forum rules - Moderator]
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  #13  
Unread 08-22-2016, 09:20 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Thanks for quoting Seth's/Jane Roberts' remarkable books.
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Unread 08-30-2016, 01:20 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

A little more from Seth:

Quote:
"The emergence of consciousness into those physical conditions automatically alters them - a fact not recognized by astrologers. Each child born alters the entire universe, and changes the world of its time and birth by bringing into it action not there earlier, in your terms, and by impressing the universe with the stamp - the indelible stamp - of its reality. Each child chooses its own probable version of any given birthdate. Such dates are obviously not just points in time, pinpointed in space. In the first place, since all time is simultaneous, you are always dying and being born..."

- Seth (Unknown Reality, Session 729)
[edited quote over 100 words - against Forum rules - Moderator]
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Unread 08-30-2016, 01:40 PM
RaRohini RaRohini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
A little more from Seth:
Amazing ! So does that mean we are sent here to extinguish our karma but end up attracting more in the process ? 😃
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Unread 08-30-2016, 04:02 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Not sure if you are familiar with Abraham-Hicks, but they say that you can't possibly know if your visions of a past life were actually from one of your own past lives or the past life of someone else because you only have access to what is of a similar vibration. So the past life visions you experience have more to do with your vibrational state of being right here right now than anything else. Does that resonate somehow?
Yes I am familiar with the Abraham-Hicks material.

We don't really know if the all past life information in the natal chart, past life regression, or psychic readings are literally true. It is possible that this information is a downloaded set of symbolic stories. Which could be connected to certain vibrational levels as you suggest.

It doesn't really matter, the bottom line is that the material is given to us for a reason.
To help us achieve soul growth and purpose.

Julia
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Unread 08-30-2016, 04:05 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
A little more from Seth:

[edited quote over 100 words - against Forum rules - Moderator]
The quote was not allowed under the TOS, it was too lengthy.
But karmic astrologers have long understood these concepts.

Julia
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Unread 08-30-2016, 07:47 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

I re-read one of Jane Roberts' Seth books last winter but it has been a long time since I've read the others. He confirms reincarnation but I don't recall him agreeing with karma in a Hindu sense.

Basically he says that people incarnate into the kind of life that will best promote their learning experiences and soul growth. If they incarnate into a rotten life, it's not that they're being punished; but that perhaps over a previous life of harming other people, their soul growth depends upon experiencing life from the victim's perspective. But this is a choice, not a deterministic punishment.

I was pleasantly surprised in reading Jim Tucker's books Life Before Life and Return to Life, that Seth's perspective correlates with his own findings. Tucker is a MD and professor of child psychiatry at the University of Virginia. His scientific credentials are legit. Tucker's research field is interviewing young children who claim to remember past lives, and then trying to track down through a lot of detective work, whether the person the child recalled actually lived, and had a life corresponding to the child's recollections. Some of Tucker's findings are just uncanny, like a young boy who talked about events and friends that matched the life of a downed young WW II pilot.

But again, Tucker found no evidence that the present life functioned as some kind of reward or punishment for the previous life.

Seth says that all time is simultaneous. A shift for the better in one reality alters the other realities.
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Unread 08-31-2016, 12:59 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Amazing ! So does that mean we are sent here to extinguish our karma but end up attracting more in the process ? ��
That's the linear time perspective. As Seth says, your future lives influence your current life, your current life changes your past lives and your future lives. So before and after doesn't really apply which makes it difficult to apply the conventional ideas of purpose and meaning in this context.
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Unread 08-31-2016, 01:05 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Yes I am familiar with the Abraham-Hicks material.

We don't really know if the all past life information in the natal chart, past life regression, or psychic readings are literally true. It is possible that this information is a downloaded set of symbolic stories. Which could be connected to certain vibrational levels as you suggest.

It doesn't really matter, the bottom line is that the material is given to us for a reason.
To help us achieve soul growth and purpose.

Julia
Yeah, what you can be sure of is that whatever you are receiving is a perfect vibrational match to your current state of being.

But this last bit about soul growth and purpose, that's exactly where Abraham-Hicks would disagree.
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Unread 08-31-2016, 01:16 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I re-read one of Jane Roberts' Seth books last winter but it has been a long time since I've read the others. He confirms reincarnation but I don't recall him agreeing with karma in a Hindu sense.

Basically he says that people incarnate into the kind of life that will best promote their learning experiences and soul growth. If they incarnate into a rotten life, it's not that they're being punished; but that perhaps over a previous life of harming other people, their soul growth depends upon experiencing life from the victim's perspective. But this is a choice, not a deterministic punishment.

I was pleasantly surprised in reading Jim Tucker's books Life Before Life and Return to Life, that Seth's perspective correlates with his own findings. Tucker is a MD and professor of child psychiatry at the University of Virginia. His scientific credentials are legit. Tucker's research field is interviewing young children who claim to remember past lives, and then trying to track down through a lot of detective work, whether the person the child recalled actually lived, and had a life corresponding to the child's recollections. Some of Tucker's findings are just uncanny, like a young boy who talked about events and friends that matched the life of a downed young WW II pilot.

But again, Tucker found no evidence that the present life functioned as some kind of reward or punishment for the previous life.

Seth says that all time is simultaneous. A shift for the better in one reality alters the other realities.
Hi Waybread,

I have read Dr. Tucker's work and it is excellent, yes.

I think you are hitting some key differences between karmic astrology, western based, and the Eastern traditions, Hindu, etc.

The Eastern traditions tend to see a karmic fated life script, punishment and reward based.
Western karmic thought is based more upon the notion of free will, choice, and soul purpose and goals. The chart is not seen as punishment, but a learning experience.

As a Western based karmic astrologer, I share some of tenets of Eastern astrolgogy: belief in an eternal soul, reincarnation, karma, etc. But there is a sharp divergence of thought about the reasons for incarnation, the purpose of the karmic wheel, free will, etc.

And yes Seth is correct. Linear time is an artifact of life on Earth. In reality time is fluid and simultaneous. What happens in the now is impacting past and present. The ripples are felt throughout the river of time.

Julia
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Unread 08-31-2016, 01:22 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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I re-read one of Jane Roberts' Seth books last winter but it has been a long time since I've read the others. He confirms reincarnation but I don't recall him agreeing with karma in a Hindu sense.
That is correct. Here's a quote from Seth on the conventional karma theory:

Quote:
"Many proponents of reincarnation believe that an illness in one life has its roots in a past existence, and that reincarnational regression is therefore necessary to uncover the reasons for current illnesses or dilemmas. There is also a rather conventional stereotype version of karma that may follow such beliefs. Therefore, you may be punished in this life for errors you have committed in a past one, or you may actually be making up for a mistake made thousands of years ago. Again, all of a person's reincarnational existence are connected - but the events in one life do not cause the events in the next one."

- Seth (The Way Toward Health)
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Unread 08-31-2016, 01:27 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Karmic Astrology View Post
Hi Waybread,

I have read Dr. Tucker's work and it is excellent, yes.

I think you are hitting about some key differences between karmic astrology, western based, and the Eastern traditions, Hindu, etc.

The Eastern traditions tend to see a karmic fated life script, punishment and reward based.
Western karmic thought is based more upon the notion of free will, choice, and soul purpose and goals. The chart is not seen as punishment, but a learning experience.

As a Western based karmic astrologer, I share some of tenets of Eastern astrolgogy: belief in an eternal soul, reincarnation, karma, etc. But there is a sharp divergence of thought about the reasons for incarnation, the purpose of the karmic wheel, free will, etc.
That's interesting stuff, Julia. Can you say a bit more about those differences?
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Unread 08-31-2016, 02:25 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: The planets don't influence you

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
Amazing ! So does that mean we are sent here to extinguish our karma but end up attracting more in the process ? 😃
Yes that was the situation, we come back to burn off old karma.
And in the process we accrue more. It was a bit of a hamster wheel.

However, the entire universe is geared towards growth and evolution.
The planet Earth has been ascending into a higher level of consciousness.
Many souls have agreed to take on collective karma, you can see this in
the natal charts on this forum. So many charts with 12 house, 1/7 and 6/12 emphasis.

A lot of the karmic flotsam and jetsam being cleared on this planet.
Getting off the hamster wheel into higher levels of growth.

Julia
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Unread 08-31-2016, 08:08 PM
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Re: The planets don't influence you

Julia, your version of karma is most refreshing. I like it.

I guess what typically bothers me about a lot of karmic astrology is the view that if someone is miserably unhappy in this life, they must have been a rotten person in a previous life. Too often, there are astrologers ready to reinforce this unhappiness, even though they cannot truthfully say what the person's past life or lives were about.

The opposite danger with a choice-centered view of incarnation is the belief that victims deliberately chose their current problems, so there's no point in trying to help them.

Because our own incarnation might just be all about helping victims, out of a chosen sense of compassion.

And so on.
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