Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 11-21-2020, 01:39 AM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
So why is this considered bonificiation?

One of the considerations of maltreatment is an opposition by a malefic. So the opposite must be true for bonification, an opposition to a benefic(???)

So why is it beneficial? On the thema mundi the aspect of an opposition is that of Saturnís. Wonít it make more sense for it to be a trine to a benefic instead?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 11-21-2020, 01:47 AM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,167
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
One of the considerations of maltreatment is an opposition by a malefic. So the opposite must be true for bonification, an opposition to a benefic(???)

So why is it beneficial? On the thema mundi the aspect of an opposition is that of Saturnís. Wonít it make more sense for it to be a trine to a benefic instead?
Yes it makes more sense, because thats how it works.

A trine to a benefic is much more favourable than an opposition to a benefic.

An opposition to a benefic can be considered a "minor" positive effect, which does not always really bring you any good.
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 11-21-2020, 01:57 AM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Thanks. Authors arenít consistent or a lot is lost due to age and degraded documents. Or itís not stated outright
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 11-21-2020, 01:59 AM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,167
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

You've been making a lot of question on the traditional section.

What are you reading? what are you trying to learn? - what are you trying to comprehend ?

Asking out of curiosity.
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 11-21-2020, 02:07 AM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Oh I just wanted to know a little more about astrology thatís all
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 11-21-2020, 02:09 AM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,167
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Oh I just wanted to know a little more about astrology thatís all

your questions seem too specific though.
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 11-21-2020, 09:04 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,787
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
One of the considerations of maltreatment is an opposition by a malefic. So the opposite must be true for bonification, an opposition to a benefic(???)

So why is it beneficial? On the thema mundi the aspect of an opposition is that of Saturnís. Wonít it make more sense for it to be a trine to a benefic instead?
In practical terms, there is no general answer to this because you have to always consider the individual condition of each planet involved before you can reach your final verdict on how a specific configuration is eventually going to work out. Which is where the doctrine of good/bad aspects quickly reaches its limits. So instead of good vs. bad aspects, maybe think in terms of strong vs. weak aspects and then decide the good and the bad based on individual planetary conditions. An opposition is a very powerful aspect. Trines, squares and sextiles are less powerful. And it does make a huge difference if the aspect involves a benefic in bad condition or a malefic in good condition. Another important factor is (mutual) reception. So there's a lot more to consider here.
__________________
ďMillionaires don't use Astrology, billionaires do.Ē ― J.P. Morgan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 11-21-2020, 07:42 PM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
In terms of technique its purpose or reason can be questioned without needing to delineate an entire chart. I donít have a chart, just a question about general doctrines.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 11-21-2020, 07:44 PM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

I meant to say that modern traditional astrologers reconstructed the bonification doctrine because itís not outwardly stated like the conditions of maltreatment. Thatís why I asked. I shouldíve been more clear.

Last edited by Bunraku; 11-21-2020 at 07:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 11-21-2020, 08:20 PM
Dirius's Avatar
Dirius Dirius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,167
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
So instead of good vs. bad aspects, maybe think in terms of strong vs. weak aspects and then decide the good and the bad based on individual planetary conditions. An opposition is a very powerful aspect. Trines, squares and sextiles are less powerful.

And it does make a huge difference if the aspect involves a benefic in bad condition or a malefic in good condition. Another important factor is (mutual) reception. So there's a lot more to consider here.
Aspects don't have "power levels", they simply describe the relation between the signs both planets are located in. An opposition isn't "more powerful" than a square or trine, it just happens to describe a different situation and relation between both planets.

An aspect with a malefic is seldom good in traditional natal astrology, even a favourable aspect with a well placed malefic is still bad. A malefic planet will, by nature, apply negative traits to the planet it influences, even if these are considered the "best" traits the planet has to offer (by dignity) and the relation between planets develops easily (by trine). It is still bad and a negative influence for the planet who is in relation to the malefic.

This isn't the Horary section where, given the context of the chart, these things can be interpreted in another manner.

Also, this isn't dragon ball - no such thing as an aspect being stronger than another aspect
__________________
If you'd like a private Horary or Natal consultation, please visit me at:

https://antiqueastrology.wordpress.com/

You'll also find some tips for horary practice!

Last edited by Dirius; 11-21-2020 at 08:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 11-21-2020, 10:14 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 69,868
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post




Aspects don't have "power levels", they simply describe the relation between the signs both planets are located in. An opposition isn't "more powerful" than a square or trine, it just happens to describe a different situation and relation between both planets.

An aspect with a malefic is seldom good in traditional natal astrology, even a favourable aspect with a well placed malefic is still bad. A malefic planet will, by nature, apply negative traits to the planet it influences, even if these are considered the "best" traits the planet has to offer (by dignity) and the relation between planets develops easily (by trine).

It is still bad and a negative influence

for the planet who is in relation to the malefic.
For example

Greater Malefic Saturn exalted in Libra
is a negative influence
on Libras Domicile ruler Venus
when natal Saturn is in Libra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post


This isn't the Horary section where, given the context of the chart, these things can be interpreted in another manner.

Also, this isn't dragon ball - no such thing as an aspect being stronger than another aspect
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 11-22-2020, 04:13 AM
muchacho muchacho is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,787
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Aspects don't have "power levels", they simply describe the relation between the signs both planets are located in. An opposition isn't "more powerful" than a square or trine, it just happens to describe a different situation and relation between both planets.

An aspect with a malefic is seldom good in traditional natal astrology, even a favourable aspect with a well placed malefic is still bad. A malefic planet will, by nature, apply negative traits to the planet it influences, even if these are considered the "best" traits the planet has to offer (by dignity) and the relation between planets develops easily (by trine). It is still bad and a negative influence for the planet who is in relation to the malefic.

This isn't the Horary section where, given the context of the chart, these things can be interpreted in another manner.

Also, this isn't dragon ball - no such thing as an aspect being stronger than another aspect
Judging by your comments, you seem to be much more of a modern astrologer than you are willing to admit.
__________________
ďMillionaires don't use Astrology, billionaires do.Ē ― J.P. Morgan
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 11-22-2020, 04:16 AM
Bunraku's Avatar
Bunraku Bunraku is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 6,479
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Iím not an astrologer.
And modern is used to describe a movement of the past.

Maybe contemporary skeptic of astrology?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 11-22-2020, 04:16 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 16,491
Re: So why is this considered bonificiation?

Even Valens give credence to the view that a weighted approach to delineation gives a more nuanced reading.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bonificiation, considered

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.