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  #1  
Unread 09-11-2020, 07:11 PM
ricca91 ricca91 is offline
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Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

Example. Let's say a Scorpio heavy person goes through a bad break-up (my case). Instead of trying to get over it and go on with his or her life, they seem to increase their suffering through obsessively think about the ex partner, fantasise about "what ifs", remembering the good moments together and longing for them, wish to take back time to make things different, look at pictures and past conversations they had together KNOWING that that will make them even more miserable than they are...

Or consciously or unconsciously self-sabotaging themselves through self destructive behavior through drugs, meaningless sex, etc, all KNOWING that that will make the situation even worse and lead to depression.

I mean, WHY? Is it a kind of self-harm? Some kind of self-punishment? Try to hit rock bottom? What's the cause of this? Why should they torture themselves to the point they feel dead inside
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  #2  
Unread 09-11-2020, 10:48 PM
neptunian neptunian is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricca91 View Post
Example. Let's say a Scorpio heavy person goes through a bad break-up (my case). Instead of trying to get over it and go on with his or her life, they seem to increase their suffering through obsessively think about the ex partner, fantasise about "what ifs", remembering the good moments together and longing for them, wish to take back time to make things different, look at pictures and past conversations they had together KNOWING that that will make them even more miserable than they are...

Or consciously or unconsciously self-sabotaging themselves through self destructive behavior through drugs, meaningless sex, etc, all KNOWING that that will make the situation even worse and lead to depression.

I mean, WHY? Is it a kind of self-harm? Some kind of self-punishment? Try to hit rock bottom? What's the cause of this? Why should they torture themselves to the point they feel dead inside
Asc ruler in 12. Shadow side can be self-sabotage. Good side is an inner journey.

Moon in gemini, dispositor mercury in scorpio with pluto. What an over-thinking suspicious mind. )
Sun in your fifth, love can be your main focus; mars is there, maybe you are drawn to tumultuous relationships which leave you wounded.

Pluto is transiting in your 7th, maybe it is transforming your viewpoint on relationships. Good thing, you have awareness. Feel your pain but no need to harm yourself. You need to change the ways you deal with sadness. Neptune conjunct your north node. You need to be careful with drugs, don't use such things. Instead; learn spirituality, listen to music, find a creative hobby. Astrology is also very good for you.

South node in cancer, you need someone to be dependant.
You are learning to control yourself with your north node in capricorn.
That is what you need to learn. Self-control. self-sufficiency. not taking the easy way, patience and dealing with reality.
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  #3  
Unread 09-12-2020, 12:43 PM
ricca91 ricca91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neptunian View Post
Asc ruler in 12. Shadow side can be self-sabotage. Good side is an inner journey.

Moon in gemini, dispositor mercury in scorpio with pluto. What an over-thinking suspicious mind. )
Sun in your fifth, love can be your main focus; mars is there, maybe you are drawn to tumultuous relationships which leave you wounded.

Pluto is transiting in your 7th, maybe it is transforming your viewpoint on relationships. Good thing, you have awareness. Feel your pain but no need to harm yourself. You need to change the ways you deal with sadness. Neptune conjunct your north node. You need to be careful with drugs, don't use such things. Instead; learn spirituality, listen to music, find a creative hobby. Astrology is also very good for you.

South node in cancer, you need someone to be dependant.
You are learning to control yourself with your north node in capricorn.
That is what you need to learn. Self-control. self-sufficiency. not taking the easy way, patience and dealing with reality.
Thank you very much for your insight. I agree with it, didnít think about ASC ruler and house placement. You are absolutely right abou learning patience, endurance, self control. I always tend to take the easy way, rely too much on others sometimes.

However, I noticed that many Scorpio/Pluto people have difficulties with love relationships, which are almost always turbulent and end in suffering and self-destruction. And we tend to make ourselves more and more miserable as we LIKE to feel all the pain before getting better, and this phase can last months/years. Why is it? If the situation is already painful, why do we like to make it even more painful? And I refer to various life situations, not only love-related...

Very much appreciated!

Last edited by ricca91; 09-12-2020 at 12:47 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 09-12-2020, 04:15 PM
neptunian neptunian is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

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Originally Posted by ricca91 View Post
Thank you very much for your insight. I agree with it, didn’t think about ASC ruler and house placement. You are absolutely right abou learning patience, endurance, self control. I always tend to take the easy way, rely too much on others sometimes.

However, I noticed that many Scorpio/Pluto people have difficulties with love relationships, which are almost always turbulent and end in suffering and self-destruction. And we tend to make ourselves more and more miserable as we LIKE to feel all the pain before getting better, and this phase can last months/years. Why is it? If the situation is already painful, why do we like to make it even more painful? And I refer to various life situations, not only love-related...

Very much appreciated!
To me, asc ruler's house position is very important in understanding what person will be focusing on life. Consciously or unconsciously.. karma or free will.. 12th is about reflecting.

What's good, you are honest with yourself and aware. You will have your saturn return. It really increases maturity. Scorpio is a very deep intense sign. There is a saying "feeling everything deeply is both a blessing and a curse." that reminds me of scorpio sign. Your soul chose to experience this energy. Feeling intense is a part of you, what you need to do is not to let them overwhelm you. you need to balance. You need to feel and connect emotionally at one side, on the other side your gemini moon needs space. Your sun and moon are inconjunct, different energies. They are at odds with each other.

Since your n.node is in 7th, it is not that bad for you to want someone to rely on,yet you need to be realistic.

Maybe you are drawn to emotionally chaotic type of people and insist on similar people. something unconscious. Your moon and venus ruled by mercury, you need someone to be a friend to you, communication is what you need actually.

Your sun aspected by saturn, can give general challenges or feeling restricted in life and makes depressed. Your asc ruler moon squared by jupiter can cause exaggerated feelings. and sqaured by venus, maybe this gives the tendency to take the easy way.

Your moon very close to fixed star Cursa and Rigel. Fixed star Cursa can give emotional fluctuations and it also gives keen intellect. Rigel also considered as a lucky star. I'm trying to learn more about fixed stars, very interesting, you can also search about it.
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  #5  
Unread 09-12-2020, 05:35 PM
ricca91 ricca91 is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neptunian View Post
To me, asc ruler's house position is very important in understanding what person will be focusing on life. Consciously or unconsciously.. karma or free will.. 12th is about reflecting.

What's good, you are honest with yourself and aware. You will have your saturn return. It really increases maturity. Scorpio is a very deep intense sign. There is a saying "feeling everything deeply is both a blessing and a curse." that reminds me of scorpio sign. Your soul chose to experience this energy. Feeling intense is a part of you, what you need to do is not to let them overwhelm you. you need to balance. You need to feel and connect emotionally at one side, on the other side your gemini moon needs space. Your sun and moon are inconjunct, different energies. They are at odds with each other.

Since your n.node is in 7th, it is not that bad for you to want someone to rely on,yet you need to be realistic.

Maybe you are drawn to emotionally chaotic type of people and insist on similar people. something unconscious. Your moon and venus ruled by mercury, you need someone to be a friend to you, communication is what you need actually.

Your sun aspected by saturn, can give general challenges or feeling restricted in life and makes depressed. Your asc ruler moon squared by jupiter can cause exaggerated feelings. and sqaured by venus, maybe this gives the tendency to take the easy way.

Your moon very close to fixed star Cursa and Rigel. Fixed star Cursa can give emotional fluctuations and it also gives keen intellect. Rigel also considered as a lucky star. I'm trying to learn more about fixed stars, very interesting, you can also search about it.
Your analysis was spot on! I have a lot of work to do... Thank you!

Hugs to you!
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  #6  
Unread 09-12-2020, 06:00 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

Good Day Ricca 91, The chart posted has 4 planets in scorpio, including Pluto, the grand-daddy of drama and obsession. You will often find the same qualities in a native with Venus/Pluto Scorpio aspect.
Fixed signs find it difficult to let go of the past.
They will often seek revenge to destroy the person they feel has betrayed them.
There is no in-diference, their emotions swing from love to hate in a second & they are not safe to be around when they are acting with so much feeling & not enough logic. There is no point trying to analyse their actions based on common sense for they often lose touch with reality. Their great strengths (loyalty, passion, emotional intensity) turns into their lower vibration of stalking, obsession because they can't 'shut off their emotions' or stop caring very easily. It might take years. They do suffer because of their inability to let go but it's part of the Plutonic energies they must go through. My own daughter had an Aquarius man from high school stalk her for a decade until he finally met a woman that he loved more & got married. He was spying on her all the time, he hacked into her FB account & tried to prevent her from dating. A lot more stuff too but we knew he wasn't violent & that helped my daughter a lot deal with his obsession.
Do you think your ex could be violent? He is going through saturn pluto joining his natal saturn right now & that could be a dangerous time for him & yourself.
Keep mace, spray pepper with you at all times in case you need to defend yourself. If you can move away that would be better depending if you believe he's dangerous or not. He is not able to understand how his obsession is hurting you or incapable of not self-sabotaging for his emotions are beyond control.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ricca91 View Post
Example. Let's say a Scorpio heavy person goes through a bad break-up (my case). Instead of trying to get over it and go on with his or her life, they seem to increase their suffering through obsessively think about the ex partner, fantasise about "what ifs", remembering the good moments together and longing for them, wish to take back time to make things different, look at pictures and past conversations they had together KNOWING that that will make them even more miserable than they are...

Or consciously or unconsciously self-sabotaging themselves through self destructive behavior through drugs, meaningless sex, etc, all KNOWING that that will make the situation even worse and lead to depression.

I mean, WHY? Is it a kind of self-harm? Some kind of self-punishment? Try to hit rock bottom? What's the cause of this? Why should they torture themselves to the point they feel dead inside

Last edited by blackbery; 09-12-2020 at 06:07 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 09-13-2020, 02:18 PM
RobShawAstrology RobShawAstrology is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

To answer your question in a general way and not particular to your nativity we only need one word: Pluto. Pluto makes us suffer to transform.



Scorpio heavy people mean they are bound to express their Scorpio planet energies through the sign ruler Pluto. The expression will then be "Plutonian" which the other astrologers explained well (obsessive, compulsive, stalking, controlling, power-hungry) when in aggressive form.


In passive-aggressive form Plutonian energy may be self-destructive in several ways. E.g. anger turned inward as depression; woundedness becomes masochistic as a form of self-punishment; feelings of revenge; any kind of self-harm due to deeply felt injury.



In death, we sacrifice our body so that we may transform into the real spiritual being that we are. We shed our body like clothing through death so the real self, the soul is released. There is a suffering before death for most.



Plutonian energy can be dealt with by focusing on the cause of the pain in the first place, revealed by Pluto and any planets in Scorpio (natal, transit, etc.) then find the key (a positive aspect maybe) to help release the pain. Scorpio energy may naturally seek suffering as a way to bring upon a transformation. The problem is people get stuck in the pain and suffering and are trapped. Darn you Pluto the kidnapper jailer Hell! As the saying goes, "when you're going through hell that is not the time to stop!"


When we have obsessive and negative emotions, thoughts and behaviour we have been kidnapped by them! We need to find our escape. Commonly people seek things that enable an instant escape but then find themselves right back where they started or worse. Suffering and pain is a symptom of what's wrong. Get to the source of the pain but be prepared to take some time. Escaping Pluto's obsessive grasp is like unwinding a spider's web.



If you think Saturn transformations take time imagine Pluto.



Although Plutonian energy moves at a snail's pace it needs to move or be moved. Obsessive thoughts, actions and behaviour is a symptom that self-control is lost or going downhill fast. We must learn self-control with Plutonian energy or its destructive forces are released.



I see Pluto energy as kinda like the little jets on spacecraft that with a tiny little spurt can actually change the course of the craft greatly. If that little jet got stuck the spacecraft would likely spin out of control due to the constant spurting. Pluto brings our attention to where we are "stuck" in life, and where we can spin out of control. Once we release our pain and suffering the "stuck jet sprayer" releases and stops so we can return to the course we choose.


To release from obsessive Pluto energy, look at what Scorpios do. They "go underground" as in hide away for awhile till they analyze the situation and come up with a solution. I remember when I needed to recover from difficult Pluto or Scorpio periods in my life I found myself living in basement apartments. Oddly. But I couldn't wait to get back up into the light again once my "course correction" was made.


Try to figure out what it is that is triggering any hurt that may bring up repeatedly self-destructive behaviour. Do not hesitate to seek professional help as the first step to recovery is recognizing you may have a problem you can't control on your own. There is no shame in admitting to being human and needing the help of others.



These retrogrades will bring up issues from our past (Saturn) and our deepest pains (Pluto) but it's a good time to examine those. Try to see the learning experience in the pain. Take the knowledge and remember what is learned during these retrogrades, then think of how you can begin now to create different, better pathways once the retrogrades finish in December (mostly).



good luck to all dealing with these heavy Saturn-Pluto in Capricorn transits!


Rob


PS - take a look at what Chiron is doing in the chart if seeking any kind of deep healing. He loves to teach new ways of dealing with pain.
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  #8  
Unread 09-27-2020, 12:39 PM
ricca91 ricca91 is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
Good Day Ricca 91, The chart posted has 4 planets in scorpio, including Pluto, the grand-daddy of drama and obsession. You will often find the same qualities in a native with Venus/Pluto Scorpio aspect.
Fixed signs find it difficult to let go of the past.
They will often seek revenge to destroy the person they feel has betrayed them.
There is no in-diference, their emotions swing from love to hate in a second & they are not safe to be around when they are acting with so much feeling & not enough logic. There is no point trying to analyse their actions based on common sense for they often lose touch with reality. Their great strengths (loyalty, passion, emotional intensity) turns into their lower vibration of stalking, obsession because they can't 'shut off their emotions' or stop caring very easily. It might take years. They do suffer because of their inability to let go but it's part of the Plutonic energies they must go through. My own daughter had an Aquarius man from high school stalk her for a decade until he finally met a woman that he loved more & got married. He was spying on her all the time, he hacked into her FB account & tried to prevent her from dating. A lot more stuff too but we knew he wasn't violent & that helped my daughter a lot deal with his obsession.
Do you think your ex could be violent? He is going through saturn pluto joining his natal saturn right now & that could be a dangerous time for him & yourself.
Keep mace, spray pepper with you at all times in case you need to defend yourself. If you can move away that would be better depending if you believe he's dangerous or not. He is not able to understand how his obsession is hurting you or incapable of not self-sabotaging for his emotions are beyond control.
Hi Blackbery,

your analysis is very accurate in the first part!

However, the chart I posted it's mine (although of course you couldn't have known that). Fortunately I'm not violent to others/a stalker, although I can be very violent to myself and can be really harsh to others if bothered. I mean, if you intentionally try to mess with me, I don't think it's a really good idea since in a way or another you are going to pay for it (most of the times I just turn to ice and you are dead to me, then karma or I don't know what ends up doing its work without me doing anything actively, while I'm moving on from the disappointment/bitterness).

She, my ex, also has a Scorpio-heavy, Plutonian/Saturnian chart, so we work in a similar way (that's why we had such a peculiar, intense relationship).

Yes, I am going through a very difficult and changing phase of my life, and I hope not to be in danger, but well, I could be when Pluto or Saturn will be more tightly squaring my Sun and Mars.

Thank you for taking the time to write such an articulate answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobShawAstrology View Post
To answer your question in a general way and not particular to your nativity we only need one word: Pluto. Pluto makes us suffer to transform.



Scorpio heavy people mean they are bound to express their Scorpio planet energies through the sign ruler Pluto. The expression will then be "Plutonian" which the other astrologers explained well (obsessive, compulsive, stalking, controlling, power-hungry) when in aggressive form.


In passive-aggressive form Plutonian energy may be self-destructive in several ways. E.g. anger turned inward as depression; woundedness becomes masochistic as a form of self-punishment; feelings of revenge; any kind of self-harm due to deeply felt injury.



In death, we sacrifice our body so that we may transform into the real spiritual being that we are. We shed our body like clothing through death so the real self, the soul is released. There is a suffering before death for most.



Plutonian energy can be dealt with by focusing on the cause of the pain in the first place, revealed by Pluto and any planets in Scorpio (natal, transit, etc.) then find the key (a positive aspect maybe) to help release the pain. Scorpio energy may naturally seek suffering as a way to bring upon a transformation. The problem is people get stuck in the pain and suffering and are trapped. Darn you Pluto the kidnapper jailer Hell! As the saying goes, "when you're going through hell that is not the time to stop!"


When we have obsessive and negative emotions, thoughts and behaviour we have been kidnapped by them! We need to find our escape. Commonly people seek things that enable an instant escape but then find themselves right back where they started or worse. Suffering and pain is a symptom of what's wrong. Get to the source of the pain but be prepared to take some time. Escaping Pluto's obsessive grasp is like unwinding a spider's web.



If you think Saturn transformations take time imagine Pluto.



Although Plutonian energy moves at a snail's pace it needs to move or be moved. Obsessive thoughts, actions and behaviour is a symptom that self-control is lost or going downhill fast. We must learn self-control with Plutonian energy or its destructive forces are released.



I see Pluto energy as kinda like the little jets on spacecraft that with a tiny little spurt can actually change the course of the craft greatly. If that little jet got stuck the spacecraft would likely spin out of control due to the constant spurting. Pluto brings our attention to where we are "stuck" in life, and where we can spin out of control. Once we release our pain and suffering the "stuck jet sprayer" releases and stops so we can return to the course we choose.


To release from obsessive Pluto energy, look at what Scorpios do. They "go underground" as in hide away for awhile till they analyze the situation and come up with a solution. I remember when I needed to recover from difficult Pluto or Scorpio periods in my life I found myself living in basement apartments. Oddly. But I couldn't wait to get back up into the light again once my "course correction" was made.


Try to figure out what it is that is triggering any hurt that may bring up repeatedly self-destructive behaviour. Do not hesitate to seek professional help as the first step to recovery is recognizing you may have a problem you can't control on your own. There is no shame in admitting to being human and needing the help of others.



These retrogrades will bring up issues from our past (Saturn) and our deepest pains (Pluto) but it's a good time to examine those. Try to see the learning experience in the pain. Take the knowledge and remember what is learned during these retrogrades, then think of how you can begin now to create different, better pathways once the retrogrades finish in December (mostly).



good luck to all dealing with these heavy Saturn-Pluto in Capricorn transits!


Rob


PS - take a look at what Chiron is doing in the chart if seeking any kind of deep healing. He loves to teach new ways of dealing with pain.
Thank you very much for your extensive answer and for writing your experience during Pluto/Saturn transits. I am and will be going through them for quite a few years and hope to still stay alive!

I am actually staying at home much more during this time and socialise a lot less than usual.

What you wrote perfectly describes a big part of me. Chiron is currently squaring my ASC and inconjunct my Sun and Mars, sextiling my Saturn, while natally it's squaring my Sun-Mars and opposing my Saturn. It's also my only "planet" in fire. I definitely have to read more about Chiron, it's a very interesting and eye opening topic!
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Unread 09-27-2020, 05:37 PM
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StillOne StillOne is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

How certain are you of your birth time? apologies if it's been addressed earlier in the thread... If you were born at 8:19 you'd have Gemini rising.

If you are Cancer rising, we share some similar chart placements: Gem moon in 12th, Merc in Scorpio 17th deg although I'm Libra Sun.

There is some astrology mentioned regarding the Cancer Capricorn Asc Desc axis that says marriage will be delayed. Certainly true for me.

Ruler of the 7th is Saturn in the 8th house if we go by current birth time. It's an interesting placement that should be looked into further.

Looking at some of the closer aspects: Moon square Venus and Sun square Saturn, it seems to me that possibly focusing on cultivating self love is very important for further growth.

Best of luck

Last edited by StillOne; 09-27-2020 at 05:42 PM.
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Unread 10-29-2020, 03:37 PM
GeminiSun GeminiSun is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

I'm Pluto/Scorpio dominant by quite the %

You just described me from the ages of 15 to 26

I'm 27 now

I still struggle with the bad traits of Plutonian energy
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Unread 10-29-2020, 09:36 PM
RobShawAstrology RobShawAstrology is offline
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Re: Why do Scorpio-heavy people seem to actively look for suffering?

hello


If I may I'd like to point out a couple things to you that I will preface by saying that my intention in replying is only positive. Firstly, it's best to move away from thinking the planets, signs, or any other components of astrology are good or bad. Granted, Pluto and Scorpio may appear to be "bad" at times but it's more likely they are pointing out areas of life that may not be good for us. Think of it this way: the pain felt if we break a bone is a symptom or indicator of a deeper problem that must be attended to. In the example the broken bone is the real problem not the symptom of pain. So too can the same attitude be taken in astrology and in particular with the mysterious signs and planets like Scorpio and Pluto.



So let's look at your statement in another manner. Scorpio, Pluto or any sign or planet may indicate a painful event or situation occurring but that is because the Universe is trying to draw our attention to something else that is not serving us well. The pain associated with a broken bone is the body's effort to draw our attention to what needs to be fixed. We may even take a pain killer to deaden the pain but that is dangerous if we do not also attend to the broken bone. Pain ensures we don't ignore the problem.



Scorpionic and Plutonian energy attracts pain perhaps as an instant indicator that something is wrong, in the same way the excruciating pain of a broken bone immediately draws attention to the site of the pain. This can occur with other signs and planets but the transformative and transcendent experience of Scorpio and Pluto may address and resolve the issue sooner and in a manner more deeply learned. Interestingly, Scorpio and Pluto-strong people often can endure pain longer than other signs but that's another issue.


Like anyone else, I don't want to experience pain through any sign or planet but the LEVEL or INTENSITY of the pain is indicative of how seriously the bone is broken. So too is the greater or deeper need to resolve the issue the pain of Scorpio or Pluto may be indicating needs to be fixed.



If Pluto or Scorpio pain involves the moon, the emotions need to be transformed. It they involve Venus, a relationship needs to be transformed, and so on.


Secondly, at age 27 you are soon going to have your first Saturn return between age 28 and 29 likely next year or 2022. Unfortunately, most of us experience the pain or loss of one part of our life at that time, often associated with the sign and house placement of Saturn natally but also depending on aspects occurring at the time.



I tell you this not to frighten you but to prepare you, and by my previous explanation above to hopefully help you work through it at that future time by remembering the pain is a symptom of something that will need to be fixed or transformed. What actually occurs could be nearly anything and again, the level or intensity of any associated pain is directly related to how greatly the change needs to be undertaken.



Know this, almost everyone not only survives the first Saturn return very intact, but also much wiser and better off for having gone through it! Fulfilling Saturn's primary role of course as the taskmaster of the zodiac and a primary tool of the Universe to instruct us in how to make our lives better. The lessons in life are not in what happens to you but in how you respond to what happens. Don't be frightened of that old devil Saturn, or the henchman of the zodiac Pluto either. They serve the purposes of the Universe and are just indicators of what needs to be improved.



Since I'm now an old fart of 62 I've gone through two Saturn returns and can happily say that although both were painful periods, the amount of knowledge and happiness for me that transpired AFTER the Saturn returns were invaluable. If I'm fortunate I'll see another one come round at about age 84-86.



I can suggest that you look at your future Saturn return as your soul's choice to sign up for a very difficult and challenging course of study in college, but know that you will probably graduate with flying colours and be so much more prepared to deal with whatever life hands you after that.


Good luck!!
Rob
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