Why are Capricorns so desperate to fit in?

Why do they place such a high priority on external achievements and superficial labels such as popularity and social ranking?

They always seem to have a permanent scowl on their face, like they won't be happy until they reach the top of the mountain. And even when they get there, they still complain about the fact that people don't like them. If you don't believe me, watch Frost/Nixon.

Richard Nixon: "No matter how many awards or column inches are written about you, or how high the elected office is, it's still not enough. We still feel like the little man. The loser. They told us we were a hundred times, the smart asses in college, the high ups. The well-born. The people who's respect we really wanted. Really craved. And isn't that why we work so hard now, why we fight for every inch? Scrambling our way up in undignified fashion. If we're honest for a minute, if we reflect privately, just for a moment, if we allow ourselves a glimpse into that shadowy place we call our soul, isn't that why we're here? Now?"

Why do they place such a high priority on external achievements and superficial labels such as popularity and social ranking?

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Because they measure their own self worth by the goals they achieve.

Remember, Capricorn represents authority and to get to a place of authority, they need to climb and conquor the achievement ladder. This is the very energy that drives them.

It should be remembered that Capricorns also have the quality of being commonly misunderstood, irritated by the behaviour of the average person, and usually have to work for what they get socially. Living in a world where the average person is an idiot and so doesn't put forth effort socially, most relationships are haphazard and coincidental, driving the Capricorn slowly insane. There are several combinations that cause this type of sensitivity. It isn't hypersensitivity. It's the result of a sensitive person living in a world full of callous animals that look like people.

Mark, that's a good assessment of the Capricorn experience and motivation.

Also, t.................
Using Nixon as an example of a Capricorn is akin to using Madonna as a definitive example of a Leo -
Firstly, Nixon grew up in poor circumstances, with Quaker parents - thus, no drinkin', dancin' or swearin' - the latter of which seems that RN made up for in later years.

Nixon also had a Mars-Mercury conjunction, both inconjunct Saturn in Taurus in the 9th, which I feel lent him to being more cynical and harsh than your `average' Capricorn.

I have also found Capricorn people to have a brilliant sense of humour, but sometimes you have to dig around a bit to find it.

I see Cap Asc as more likely to strive to rise above the mediocre, not fit in.

I think Capricorns don't so much want to fit in as they want to avoid persecution, and the best way to do that is to be too valuable to dispose of, so they have to excel. When they can't excel, they tend to try and fit in, because if you can't show how worthy you are, you can at least try and look like you belong there.

The Capricorn is driven by fear. Fear of what could happen if people don't stop taking so many risks and tempting fate. To Capricorns, people are incompetent idiots who have no foresight and can't take care of themselves, and naturally it's all on the shoulders of the collective Capricorn. Jeanne Avery gives a really good description of Capricorn in her book The Rising Sign, which, of course, is about rising signs, but most of what she says applies to Sun signs, also. She says Capricorns have what's called an Atlas Complex, to where they feel that they carry the burden of the world on their backs.

So, Capricorn carries too much responsibility to take risks, and that includes being outspoken or spontaneous. I know, pretty tense, right? And we're not just tense, we're sarcastic, cold, and boring, too. I agree with R4VEN that we have a great sense of humor, but I've found that very few other people seem to think so. They think we're rude and sarcastic, but it's only because they can't laugh at themselves. Our sense of humor is mistaken for bland meanness, which means we're often misunderstood. (Thank you, Mark )

Earth Sign said:

I think Capricorns don't so much want to fit in as they want to avoid persecution, and the best way to do that is to be too valuable to dispose of, so they have to excel.

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Spot on, Earth Sign!!

(I also use Jeanne Avery's The Rising Sign. IMO is the best book around for getting to the nub of the psychology of each rising sign.)

R4VEN said:

Spot on, Earth Sign!!

(I also use Jeanne Avery's The Rising Sign. IMO is the best book around for getting to the nub of the psychology of each rising sign.)

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I agree about Jeanne Avery. Capricorn's identity is rooted in achieving and having public status. To be the authority and to be respected......they like structure, order, are generally conservative and quite repressed as they must do everything in the "proper" manner. Capricorn rising can manifest in many ways and depends on what Saturn is doing and where...... THey do tend to take on responsibilities early on and can feel that they cant really play and be children as life is serious. They can have difficult childhoods and can be serious beyond their years but they do better in mature years as this is Capricorn's element...

But I was wondering, since they want public status and recognition, to be respected and have authority. How does it work when they get the opposite? I.e har treated badly, disrespected etc? Is this harder to take for capricorns than other signs?

LittleMiss said:

But I was wondering, since they want public status and recognition, to be respected and have authority. How does it work when they get the opposite? I.e har treated badly, disrespected etc? Is this harder to take for capricorns than other signs?

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They resort to depression...or at least that's what I think.

I won't go as far to say that any natives of a particular sign are exactly the same, or even always fit their general description, what I know of Capricorns I know mostly from my Capricorn mother.

She had many wonderful qualities like the ability to make her friends feel comfortable, being prepared for nearly anything, and a funny, offbeat kind of edgy wisdom, but there were also other qualities that made the brighter ones harder to notice, or fully appreciate. Things like obsessive competitiveness, materialism, social climbing, she seemed to sometimes want things simply because others had them, or wanted them, and once she got them herself was bored, the 'fun' of the contest and struggle were over, and it was time to be off to higher pursuits.

From my observations, it seemed to her like acquisition was power, power was what mattered most, and she became very upset, sometimes despondent when her very meticulous, methodical plans to get things she wanted, or felt she deserved for her strident efforts didn't work.

Being a Sun Capricorn myself, I identify with what everyone has said about Capricorns. I have felt for most of my life that I had to work twice as hard to get the same things as everyone else. Sometimes I look at my friends and what they have (more emotional things than material) and envy them immensely and begin to analyse myself and wonder what's so wrong with me that I can't get the same things. It's difficult because the lesson we have to learn is that material things really mean nothing once we're dead, and public recognition is good but we shouldn't need it to feel validated. Nothing we do is ever good enough for ourselves, no matter what outsiders think or how much they praise you. There's a certain lack of trust that these people are telling you the truth, or that their value system matches yours.
I'll use an expression my dad has used, "I don't suffer fools gladly" , and I think that's very telling of how Capricorns approach the human race. I often get frustrated with people who can't hold an intelligent conversation. Some people might see it as elitism but really it isn't. We're not secure and so we believe that by becoming what we see as secure and successful, we'll be happy.
Regarding the humour. It's very sarcastic as a general rule and sometimes a little dry. For the most part, I think Capricorns get misjudged because they don't wear their heart or personality on their sleeve like some people do. We're very protective of our true selves because we hate wasting our time on people only to get hurt in the process. There's nothing stranger than a Capricorn acting like something they are not. It feels fake and looks fake.
If you want to get with a Capricorn you better appeal to their intelligence first because there's nothing more unattractive than a pretty face with no brain. It's like a bad joke. Personally if I had intimate dealings with someone I discovered to be an idiot, I felt duped and didn't like that. Why one night stands were never appealing to me. No substance to them.
Sometimes it wears you down and you do sink into depression. When I was younger I was very much my Sun sign, I was the kid nobody liked because I was quiet, shy and just plain odd. My classmates didn't like me and neither did my teachers. I spent a lot of time alone or with just one friend. My grades were average but I didn't excel at anything except art. Growing up in an elitist educational system didn't help. As time has progressed I've become more social more like my rising sign Aquarius. Sure the Capricorn sun comes out every now and then, either with self-image or when I meet new people, but it doesn't last since I've seen the value of moving beyond what you've been dealt. Everyone here knows that a Sun sign is modified by other things in our chart, so the best thing you can do is try and walk in a Capricorn's shoes and see where they are coming from. I haven't met a Capricorn yet who hasn't either had serious events in their childhood or early adult life that have made them very skeptical and untrusting of people.

Sorry for the ramblings.

CiciD... Your post was very honest I think. And what you write sounds familiar. The person closest to me who is a Capricorn sun, was sevearly bullied in school. And it seems (to me) that this has made her strive for love/respect/safety (I'm not sure exactly what) and recognition even more as an adult. The person is currently in a relationship which to everyone else seems extremly one-sided and not good, but she seems to cling to him desperatly. That is kind of why I asked my first question, trying to understand what can happen if a Capricorn-influenced person get the opposite of what they really long for in their hearts.

And yes, this is generalizations on a high level, I am aware of that. But I think discustions of plane sign-energy and how it works can be higlightening and educational even so!

Saturnian: I'm sure your right! It seems to fit.
And you should know this with all your Capp planets, right!?

You know I have noticed that. Capricorns tend to hang on to relationships that are either destructive or going nowhere because they want to make it work and like everything else, will fight tooth and nail for what they want. Whether they are truly happy is no longer an issue as long as they "win" the challenging situation. However, you can't tell them this because they won't listen. They learn the hard way. They can become emotionally dependent like "well I've opened up to you now and shown you my secrets, so you're special and this must work. So I'm going to do everything I can to make it work". It's almost obsessive. The only way to get out of a situation like that is for the man or woman to dump you. It's painful and it takes a while to get over it, but really that's the only way because you can't see the wood for the trees.

LittleMiss said:

Saturnian: I'm sure your right! It seems to fit.
And you should know this with all your Capp planets, right!?

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Haha,I guess so,although I'd say that Capricorn is just the cover of the real me.I don't know what sign I would identify my soul/core with.

Other than that,I've always found it that I had to please everyone,and that way I would be pleased.And it's mostly been that way.It can get me pretty down when people tell that I disappointed them,even if they have no right to tell me that.Although as far as I know myself I don't focus that much to materials.Except for certain objects I really love,but it's mostly sentimental.As far as money goes I can give money when I have,sure sometimes I will refuse to do so because I hardly have any money that actually belongs to me and I can manage it however I want.But in my opinion it feels a lot nicer when you share with people actually.It's a very beautiful feeling,so I don't see myself becoming materialistic as I grow up.
I have been poor to be honest,and we still are as a family...but it doesn't make me unhappy.There have been many times when I have felt happy despite being in this state that is viewed so negatively by everyone.I have been happy because I was emotionally doing well,not guess money can grant you happiness.
As far as security goes,what I am looking for isn't material security.That for a second cannot make me feel safe at all,if I can't feel safe with myself.Meaning having confidence in myself.So what I really am looking for is to find the security within me that will give me courage through life and it's obstacles.
I can continue if you like(and of course I want too!)

They often say that Capricorn rising(which I also happen to be one) have had a rough childhood.I don't know if it's true for most Cap rising,but most people face problems even early in their lives,but then some face more...
I could say that the Capricorn rising is true in my case,my childhood wasn't that happy and undisturbed.At 3 years old I moved to another country with my family because my father was there and a civil war was going on in my own country.After that my parents had problems,and the father wasn't that much of a good person after all.My sister(one of the two I have) was born with an illness and now bears it on her back.This is the general idea of the situation/state I was born in.

About not wearing their hearts on their sleeves...in my case it's true.I often feel I am misunderstood cause hey,you know a personality isn;t just a trait or two...it's something way more complex.You can't know all the qualities of a person the instant you meet them...I take my time to get to know someone else and they get to know me,so I don't understand why most people rush so much.I think you need to enjoy it when you are getting to know the other person and it should come naturally not rushed.Otherwise it's gonna get boring and all the excitement will be gone,while if you take it a bit slower on the roas to getting to know a person there will be many surprises and unpredictable traits.Although I usually open up pretty fast,unlike some others.But to display my full personality I need time.

I focus more on the emotions I could say,than other Capricorns I've seen so far in my life.But hey...then I have a Scorpio moon so I am not surprised.Emotions are very very important to me.I really cherish both mine and others',even though I tend to show mine a little bit rarely(of course depending...).And about Capricorns been called gold-diggers or whatever...I don't think they are.They may value money a little bit TOO MUCH,but usually it's their own money,that they've worked hard for.Not the money the would profit from someone else.
In my case again,if someone where of romantic interest to me,little would I care whether he buys me gifts or not.Sure it makes you feel nice when the person you are interested in gives you gifts and stuff showing they care,but if that was his only way of showing his affection to me,I would feel like he is trying to buy me.If i wanted money I am pretty sure I could make on my own...For me the most precious thing,is the time someone spares to hang out with me because they enjoy my company.That is the greatest gift to me,putting me in their everyday lives.Who cares about money and gold etc. when there are far more important things in life?

I found that as a child until I reached my mid 20's, I had a very strong urge to please my parents and not make waves. I think the urge to please others and be happy through making others happy is a fairly strong capricorn trait. My brothers (one Cancer cusp with Taurus, and the other Aries cusp with Pisces), didn't exactly set a good example so I witnessed a lot of tension between my parents (father Scorpio, mother Pisces cusp with Aquarius) and them regarding education and money. So as a kid witnessing these tensions and arguments (father was an alcoholic who didn't know how else to deal with his problems at work), I vowed not to make the same mistakes. So I did pretty much everything they wanted me to do. A degree I didn't like but did because they thought it was the right thing to do. More responsible. Fact of the matter is, I couldn't get a job with it so pretty much ended up wasting my time.
Thing is this spills over into personal relationships and can turn into a very one-sided relationship when we try to make the other happy without paying attention to our own needs. Self-sacrificing really. If a person enjoys being a martyr that's great (which some capricorns do), but I think a balanced relationship (my Libra Moon speaking) is best for anyone of any sign.

I am a Capricorn Rising, and my South Node is also there. As a child, I was desperate to fit in. It didn't help that I was given an extremely hard time at school for not fitting in. Right now, to be honest I suppose I still do care about what others think, but more as in I want to rise above what is considered mainstream and enlighten people a bit, which will probably become even more obvious as I get older.

One major struggle is to avoid bossy tendencies, especially ones which come out when things don't go the way I want them to. And I can have a tendency to be cold, but to me it feels like that comes out when I'm trying so hard to not get angry about something.

And the fact that my Ascendant has an easier time as an old person is very encouraging!! Physically, I have definitely gotten better with age, I do seem to get the respect of older people easily as long as I avoid the ultra-conservative types, and I do have a very sarcastic sense of humor that people either love or hate.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but to get back to what OP was saying, placing such a high importance on fitting in, at least when I was younger, was about survival. Now, I am getting to the point where as long as I have basic financial security, I could really care less.

LittleMiss said:

But I was wondering, since they want public status and recognition, to be respected and have authority. How does it work when they get the opposite? I.e har treated badly, disrespected etc? Is this harder to take for capricorns than other signs?

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I imagine it would be very hard. We all sow what we reap after all though.
Saturn the ruler is also the planet of karmic debt and credit. Very much Capricornians need to strive and overcome obstacles in order to achieve. THey can be more or less ruthless depending on other factors. THe more effort put in the greater the eventual rewards in the pure sense of the Capricornian scenario.

Mia1982 said:

I am a Capricorn Rising, and my South Node is also there. As a child, I was desperate to fit in. It didn't help that I was given an extremely hard time at school for not fitting in. Right now, to be honest I suppose I still do care about what others think, but more as in I want to rise above what is considered mainstream and enlighten people a bit, which will probably become even more obvious as I get older.

One major struggle is to avoid bossy tendencies, especially ones which come out when things don't go the way I want them to. And I can have a tendency to be cold, but to me it feels like that comes out when I'm trying so hard to not get angry about something.

And the fact that my Ascendant has an easier time as an old person is very encouraging!! Physically, I have definitely gotten better with age, I do seem to get the respect of older people easily as long as I avoid the ultra-conservative types, and I do have a very sarcastic sense of humor that people either love or hate.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but to get back to what OP was saying, placing such a high importance on fitting in, at least when I was younger, was about survival. Now, I am getting to the point where as long as I have basic financial security, I could really care less.

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Your North node in Cancer 7th means co-operating with others and finding a balance.....so being aware of others is very important.

Capricornians can have a very dry sense of humour, delivered dead pan I have found.

You are ruled by Saturn but there are many other factors to consider.
I am not sure it is about fitting in, rather doing the proper thing and gaining status....Libra and Venus are the ones for wanting the approval of others and being accepted.

Claire19 said:

Capricornians can have a very dry sense of humour, delivered dead pan I have found.

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Yes I am a smartass and I wouldn't have it any other way!!

I have been feeling what my North Node is trying to get me to do a lot lately, that is, shift from going cold so I don't feel negative emotion to being able to give and receive nurturing. And one challenge I have encountered frequently is being generous to people who end up taking advantage of me in some way. My North Node is technically in my 6th House, but it's close enough to my DC that it might as well be in my 7th.

At a young age, it was about "fitting in", though in hindsight it feels more like survival and generally avoiding being beaten up. As I get older, it does feel more like me trying to lead by example. Or as Gandhi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the world."