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  #26  
Unread 04-19-2016, 10:49 PM
ALRESCHA ALRESCHA is offline
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

@Cold Fusion thank you for sharing that chart! The more I read on them, the more I am convinced what can lead to it. I believe the cult leaders deserve a separate chapter in a book on coverts. Religious cults, gangs, political parties and the internet is where they go fishing. Each of the settings attracts a different sub-group that requires a different kind of approach.

The cults attract the most challenged Moons there are. A great percentage of those people are not looking t find the answer to the universe, but to find sanctuary. Their most esteemed members often make the unbreakable coverts unfortunately. Those are often funded by very special people too, who, interestingly, aren't the members themselves and even fund other cults and more. This lady got out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anmQel1m5v8



Here is the singer/poet's chart: http://i.imgur.com/4QBxvCF.gif

I forgot about Jupiter AGAIN!

I hope I'm wrong, but something's fishy about him. His first poetry book is called A man apathetic towards crying, there are also I don't want to, A Psychopath and a shovel and What did the Poet mean by that. His greatest hit is about a histrionic woman. It might not be a critique, but a description of a fantasy all the while degrading towards women. He's been building an image of a great patriot, a moral, religious, enlightened national hero ever since he had to move to another city as a teen because he robbed too many people breaking into their apartments, so that his parents wouldn't lose face.

He broke every promise and started acting contradictory to his attitudes once he realized he no longer needs to build that image, because the nation intoxication project has been completed successfully. I might be wrong, but, I'm afraid his work is full of hints of what secretly excites him and sharing that while supposedly criticizing it gives him the supply. Kinda like the cartoonists drawing inappropriate shapes or fugitives playing with a detective because they want to be found, or else the audience won't find out. The Saturn-Neptune ASC conjunction might be crucial here, him competing to out-gaslight everyone else through rhymes-structured poetry.

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Unread 04-19-2016, 11:44 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
I think my dad may have been a covert narc. Do you know anything about covert narcs? Your description seemed a bit flat.

He was cancer sun/rising, sun in 12th, with a grand water trine between Uranus in Cancer in 12th, Mars in Scorpio in 4th, and moon in Pisces in 9th. Pluto on top of SN in Leo 3rd.
Weren't you the person who asked about emotional abuse and Saturn once? If that was your dad, and he passed in the meantime, I'm sorry. I can look at the chart, send it if you want to. It can be beneficial for you to learn about this if you're around the time of your 2nd Jupiter return.

Here's what makes a covert different:

Covert's abuse method is called gaslighting. It's a method of driving a person crazy often used by the military and secret services. The term is inspired by this movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Light

The abuse is never obvious, the narc denies it and you're not sure if it's there, at least not for a long time. The treat you the best and the worst anyone's ever treated you at the same time. A narc used the following words to describe it: an emotional roller coaster. Another one, the one I've already mentioned on this and other threads here used this music piece to describe it saying that I'll listen to it some day for sure, as that's his favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PppJOrnVtkg

They'll say and do things in a way that's not obvious too. It seems like it's there, but it's not either.

Here are some examples:

A narc hit a victim, a young mother while she was feeding the baby. The victim asked why they did it, they said calmly, without blinking: I didn't hit you, why are you saying someone hit you. Nobody hit you. She shared this with me a few weeks ago.

A youth's looking for a ladle to put some grains they eat every morning from a massive sack into a box. They casually ask the narc where it's at, because the closet is messy and it's off limits at all times. The narc immediately takes up an attitude. (Don't ever need them, don't ever ask anything, because they see that as an opportunity to say NO in a BIG way and dominate you). They change their facial expression and turn their head away, showing the victim that they're annoyed. They ignore the victim for a moment and then they change the tone of their voice and ask condescendingly What do you want that for? The victim explains that what they're doing is not bad, they just want to fill the box. They ignore the victim again. Then the victim politely says they'll look for it, it's not a problem. The narc then rushes to the closet and starts bragging, they scream, the child is impossible and all these things that are uncalled for as they watch the victim shake. The next morning, they wake the victim up 4 hours earlier and aggressively order them to sit at the table at once, because they've completed what has been irresponsibly demanded of them. There is a steaming bowl decorated exotically with the most expensive organic fruit and the victim eats as the narc watches them shake. The narc then sheds a few tears kissing the victim telling them they are the most blessed victim ever to have such a compassionate narc who is willing to serve them so eagerly that early.

A narc holds a speech raising a glass and addresses everyone in the room saying: Dear family, scapegoat #1, scapegoat #2, and those are two orphans, continuing to allude and make sarcastic remarks. They ignore the scapegoats the rest of the time. The enablers do know, yet, they are silent. Later on, scapegoat#2 asks an enabler why they're being ignored, and the enabler yells at them denying that, scolding them for being ungrateful for all the magnificent narc does for them and the family, finding an excuse for the narc, calling the scapegoat crazy and paranoid.

A narc starts yelling at a victim for keeping the lighter away from the radiator. The reason is absurd and the reaction is uncalled for, their veins show on their forehead and the whole street can hear them. They're upset becuase the victim saw their stoned photos on FB and are chickening out they'd share that with the rest of the family, so they need to make the victim look bad ASAP. The victim starts crying while the narc is standing above them, leaning towards their face and the narc goes: Stop crying. You're only crying to upset the old folks to make them die sooner! That's establishing the terms: the victim is to keep silent. Then the victim tries to defend themselves: You're the one doing the wrong thing here! But the narc backs off seemingly disappointed and dramatically says, obviously fake crying: I only tried to ask you to do what I need you to do, what you need, what we all need, what's good for you too, how can you do this to me, to us?You are a bad person! And then the narc leaves. The narc comes back 2 days later all sweet and kind. They even bring the victim a gift and help them with the chores.

A group of rich kids ignores a group of poor kids in a class, but they bully them alluding to various situations wen talking in front of a teacher. They only address the victims to talk down to them. Then never bully them directly, but send the rest of the class who feel the need ot belong to bully the poor kids openly instead, promising an illusion of the integration. We call those the flying monkeys.

The astrology student narc neighbor of mine I refused to be with because he had a gf still won't leave me alone. He's stalking me and my friends online. His gaslighting is mainly starting online accounts with usernames that allude to what we've talked about, they're either pet names or keywords and he even pretended to be me on several occasions. He post wonderful poetry one day, then something degrading the next to tell me what I am. So, he's there, but the's not. He would later go to his basketball forum and post crypted messages to give me hints so that I don't miss a clone of his... He still spams me to make me see how superior he is. My phone rang non-stop for a while, like in the Big Lebowski movie. I've had severe computer trouble because of him. I'm glad that the lady is safe.

All the narcs have strong Leo and Scorpio energy conflicting. I do not necessarily mean the signs or the houses, but, I've noticed that 1st house/Aries emphasis combined with the 8th or 6th house or Sco or Vir emphasized AND conflicted produces a lower order Leo-type mentality.

This experience taught me to play along, always do what they expect you to to gather enough evidence, keep track, record and archive the abuse and keep the evidence safe.
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Unread 04-20-2016, 12:00 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

So, not all of what makes a narc is learned behavior. Some things have to do with the genetics, the potential shown in the natal chart.

Having inspected that, I find the Pluto-Sun or Pluto ASC ruler can cause such behavior.

The Sun is a teenager, much like the narc. It seeks constant attention and wants to rule. Pluto drives it to achieve its goal by establishing control. It uses fear, but its polar opposite too: love. It whispers and the Sun instantly gets the gift of instinctively knowing a whole lot about the victim's psyche. What can be dangerous about water is that it can easily see thing the way they are, not only the way it itself is.

Pluto is cold and unfamiliar, unnatural to the Sun, so it is afraid its light won't be noticed and, because it is a competitive energy, it constantly compares itself to others. Pluto emphasizes its energy and provides the tools to establish control over a group.

Due to the Sun's child-like energy and the lack of identity in this case, it's activity regarding the NPD is like a child's play. Gaslighting is an escape from reality, a play where the Sun gets to share the private, personal made-up image it sees in the mirror. It's dramatic, so they need to share it despite Pluto's influence. They play being superior and dominant over an inferior whom they have a made-up image about because Pluto feeds on emotions and uses the Sun to extract them from the victim. The Sun needs to give and receive love, but it's a harsh aspect, so it takes another form of manifestation.
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Unread 04-20-2016, 12:05 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

@Conspiracy Theorist

We all know you's not a narc, you got a great sense of humor and they don't

I've been called a fat, but somehow flat-chested, still an ugly pole-dancer/webcam girl bully with a nun mentality by a single astrologer and I don't give a ****
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  #30  
Unread 04-20-2016, 12:17 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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@Conspiracy Theorist

We all know you's not a narc, you got a great sense of humor and they don't

I've been called a fat, but somehow flat-chested, still an ugly pole-dancer/webcam girl bully with a nun mentality by a single astrologer and I don't give a ****
Y'know I was looking at the aspects you mentioned and was second guessing myself.

If that's you in the pic, you must've had a reading done online unless you're hiding a gargantuan body underneath that petite face.
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Unread 04-20-2016, 12:42 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

They volunteered, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to ever have one. I couldn't ever ask for a reading, because my computer is monitored by my now ex employer and they would've wrongly assumed that I relied on astrology to live if I asked, you see.

I wish that was me, but, alas, I'm Chinese ahahahahahahah
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Unread 04-20-2016, 12:55 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Your employers sound like a bunch of feds. What killjoys

There are a few Asian hawties running around the place. Silky smooth
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Unread 04-20-2016, 12:58 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
Weren't you the person who asked about emotional abuse and Saturn once? If that was your dad, and he passed in the meantime, I'm sorry. I can look at the chart, send it if you want to. It can be beneficial for you to learn about this if you're around the time of your 2nd Jupiter return.
Life is very difficult and confusing, yes. I don't know if I want to send it.

My Jupiter Return already happened. Nothing good happened to me, so I guess I wasted it.
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Unread 04-20-2016, 01:10 AM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Hey there, Alrescha. Interesting research.

I've got the chart of one of many people I chat with online. The guy is a sociopath narcissist (Got confirmed by a therapist awhile back) and I wanna give his chart to perhaps aid in your study. Would you take it? He says he doesn't care what I do with his chart and the fact that others would look at it was cool.
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  #35  
Unread 04-20-2016, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
Weren't you the person who asked about emotional abuse and Saturn once? If that was your dad, and he passed in the meantime, I'm sorry. I can look at the chart, send it if you want to. It can be beneficial for you to learn about this if you're around the time of your 2nd Jupiter return.

Here's what makes a covert different:

Covert's abuse method is called gaslighting. It's a method of driving a person crazy often used by the military and secret services. The term is inspired by this movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Light

The abuse is never obvious, the narc denies it and you're not sure if it's there, at least not for a long time. The treat you the best and the worst anyone's ever treated you at the same time. A narc used the following words to describe it: an emotional roller coaster. Another one, the one I've already mentioned on this and other threads here used this music piece to describe it saying that I'll listen to it some day for sure, as that's his favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PppJOrnVtkg

They'll say and do things in a way that's not obvious too. It seems like it's there, but it's not either.

Here are some examples:

A narc hit a victim, a young mother while she was feeding the baby. The victim asked why they did it, they said calmly, without blinking: I didn't hit you, why are you saying someone hit you. Nobody hit you. She shared this with me a few weeks ago.

A youth's looking for a ladle to put some grains they eat every morning from a massive sack into a box. They casually ask the narc where it's at, because the closet is messy and it's off limits at all times. The narc immediately takes up an attitude. (Don't ever need them, don't ever ask anything, because they see that as an opportunity to say NO in a BIG way and dominate you). They change their facial expression and turn their head away, showing the victim that they're annoyed. They ignore the victim for a moment and then they change the tone of their voice and ask condescendingly What do you want that for? The victim explains that what they're doing is not bad, they just want to fill the box. They ignore the victim again. Then the victim politely says they'll look for it, it's not a problem. The narc then rushes to the closet and starts bragging, they scream, the child is impossible and all these things that are uncalled for as they watch the victim shake. The next morning, they wake the victim up 4 hours earlier and aggressively order them to sit at the table at once, because they've completed what has been irresponsibly demanded of them. There is a steaming bowl decorated exotically with the most expensive organic fruit and the victim eats as the narc watches them shake. The narc then sheds a few tears kissing the victim telling them they are the most blessed victim ever to have such a compassionate narc who is willing to serve them so eagerly that early.

A narc holds a speech raising a glass and addresses everyone in the room saying: Dear family, scapegoat #1, scapegoat #2, and those are two orphans, continuing to allude and make sarcastic remarks. They ignore the scapegoats the rest of the time. The enablers do know, yet, they are silent. Later on, scapegoat#2 asks an enabler why they're being ignored, and the enabler yells at them denying that, scolding them for being ungrateful for all the magnificent narc does for them and the family, finding an excuse for the narc, calling the scapegoat crazy and paranoid.

A narc starts yelling at a victim for keeping the lighter away from the radiator. The reason is absurd and the reaction is uncalled for, their veins show on their forehead and the whole street can hear them. They're upset becuase the victim saw their stoned photos on FB and are chickening out they'd share that with the rest of the family, so they need to make the victim look bad ASAP. The victim starts crying while the narc is standing above them, leaning towards their face and the narc goes: Stop crying. You're only crying to upset the old folks to make them die sooner! That's establishing the terms: the victim is to keep silent. Then the victim tries to defend themselves: You're the one doing the wrong thing here! But the narc backs off seemingly disappointed and dramatically says, obviously fake crying: I only tried to ask you to do what I need you to do, what you need, what we all need, what's good for you too, how can you do this to me, to us?You are a bad person! And then the narc leaves. The narc comes back 2 days later all sweet and kind. They even bring the victim a gift and help them with the chores.

A group of rich kids ignores a group of poor kids in a class, but they bully them alluding to various situations wen talking in front of a teacher. They only address the victims to talk down to them. Then never bully them directly, but send the rest of the class who feel the need ot belong to bully the poor kids openly instead, promising an illusion of the integration. We call those the flying monkeys.

The astrology student narc neighbor of mine I refused to be with because he had a gf still won't leave me alone. He's stalking me and my friends online. His gaslighting is mainly starting online accounts with usernames that allude to what we've talked about, they're either pet names or keywords and he even pretended to be me on several occasions. He post wonderful poetry one day, then something degrading the next to tell me what I am. So, he's there, but the's not. He would later go to his basketball forum and post crypted messages to give me hints so that I don't miss a clone of his... He still spams me to make me see how superior he is. My phone rang non-stop for a while, like in the Big Lebowski movie. I've had severe computer trouble because of him. I'm glad that the lady is safe.

All the narcs have strong Leo and Scorpio energy conflicting. I do not necessarily mean the signs or the houses, but, I've noticed that 1st house/Aries emphasis combined with the 8th or 6th house or Sco or Vir emphasized AND conflicted produces a lower order Leo-type mentality.

This experience taught me to play along, always do what they expect you to to gather enough evidence, keep track, record and archive the abuse and keep the evidence safe.
You have hit the nail on the head so to speak !
Another technique is the 'Hoover'. For example, he may share a message or song on FB which hurts only the victim hard as it reminds them of a memory, but this looks quite innocent to the other FB friends.
They put you up on a pedestal and push you down without warning. You wonder what just happened. The trick is to understand that the pedestal was a fake act in the first place. A victim is 'prepared' to be one ; earlier on in life by someone who is close to them. If it is a parent, they may compare one child to another ; the one who does no wrong is the 'golden child'. The empath is the victim.This creates a ground for other narcissists to ' feast' upon them later on in life. And so the cycle continues.The trick is to understand the situation. Its not you; it is THEM.
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  #36  
Unread 04-27-2016, 10:15 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Your employers sound like a bunch of feds. What killjoys

There are a few Asian hawties running around the place. Silky smooth
Actually, they're alright. That's something I'd accept anytime again, because we need make sure crazy people aren't getting hired They're a global corporation and we gained access to private, very sensitive information, so they needed to make sure we won't share and cause damage to the customers, besides, the information we do share with the customers and them is pricey on the market, so they have to be sure we aren't working for another company at the same time. It's a highly competitive business and if we were to share any techniques they've taught us with another company, that'd endanger the business.

I've found a better job, though. Those never sent me my final payment anyway (No employer ever has. ) and they talk down to people. And they demanded that I conduct training more often, which would result in not having a life at all. And they hate astrology. Oh, well, the Dude abides

this scene just explains codependency better than anything else does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZR58d77a4A

Too bad I'm from Balkans, so, you know, I'm trashy and poor despite of the immense fortune I somehow inherited Somebody can't make their mind(S) up
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  #37  
Unread 04-27-2016, 10:20 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
Life is very difficult and confusing, yes. I don't know if I want to send it.

My Jupiter Return already happened. Nothing good happened to me, so I guess I wasted it.
That's OK. hugs! I only mentioned JR because the personality is fully formed around that time. Not being a narc is the best thing that can ever happen to anyone and it happened to you! You don't wanna be this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RXBQTYfyQ8


cheer up <3
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Unread 04-27-2016, 10:25 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
Hey there, Alrescha. Interesting research.

I've got the chart of one of many people I chat with online. The guy is a sociopath narcissist (Got confirmed by a therapist awhile back) and I wanna give his chart to perhaps aid in your study. Would you take it? He says he doesn't care what I do with his chart and the fact that others would look at it was cool.
Hell, I'll do anything for that avatar of yours! Anyone's free to send me a pm without asking.

I have a technique that works, but, adapting isn't too important,because even if you do use sarcasm or even go full frontal and shake the narc's cage or tell them you see through their conspiracy, they still don't get it. They think you go t nothing on them, that's the key. We need to face the evil to defeat it. But it's better to stay away fro them.
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  #39  
Unread 04-27-2016, 10:29 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post
You have hit the nail on the head so to speak !
Another technique is the 'Hoover'. For example, he may share a message or song on FB which hurts only the victim hard as it reminds them of a memory, but this looks quite innocent to the other FB friends.
They put you up on a pedestal and push you down without warning. You wonder what just happened. The trick is to understand that the pedestal was a fake act in the first place. A victim is 'prepared' to be one ; earlier on in life by someone who is close to them. If it is a parent, they may compare one child to another ; the one who does no wrong is the 'golden child'. The empath is the victim.This creates a ground for other narcissists to ' feast' upon them later on in life. And so the cycle continues.The trick is to understand the situation. Its not you; it is THEM.
Ah, the hoovering and FB! FB is the one place where everyone just goes to hoover. ahahahahhaha the status war ahahahhahah I don't have a FB account because of the bloody stalker, but I get posts are the tools to feed the narc's mirror and gain resources to fight them.

Excellent explanation! <3

I'd like to know how everyone here deal with the enablers. I should start a research on those mofos too, as they can be fixed, unlike narcs.
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Unread 04-27-2016, 11:19 PM
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Alrescha -

I have a question regarding your research findings -

Do you think it is a given that Narcissistic men hate their mothers?

The "sailor" whom I shared about earlier, always spoke kindly and loving about his mother, but when he spoke with her on the phone, he was always talking trash on the "F*d-up* women he had had in his life. He would discuss explicit sexual encounters that he had with past women and he would say things to her like "you know how women can be..." in very angry tones as well as calling them C's and W's to her. But he never said angry things to or about her. Of course I noticed this stuff right away, and even discussed my perspective about his perspective, with him. His way of handling it was "pedestalizing" me - and saying stuff like "oh, you're different, you're better than that", and so on....and to a dumbstruck heart, that often works as an easy "out" to dissuade any doubts, as well as to manipulate, by discussing the 'quality' or 'specialness' of the narcissist's prey.

Anyway - I am and was grateful to get out of that relation fairly quickly, but still embarrassed that I let those warning flags go unheeded for as long as they did.

His mother appeared to be doting - sending him cookies and sweaters and gifts frequently - but she had divorced his father when he was 12 and all he ever did was talk about the "string of @ssholes" that marched in and out of her life after that.

He always talked badly about his own father, but whenever the 45 year old sailor needed anything ~ cash, nautical advice, new equipment for his sailboat, etc, his father was the first person he called.

I don't even like to recount this stuff from memory because it was so damaging and ugly at the time, but as I said, I am curious if the misogyny is a main character trait of narcissistic men (or women, I guess, for that matter).

Last edited by Kitchy; 04-27-2016 at 11:21 PM.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Alrescha -

I have a question regarding your research findings -

Do you think it is a given that Narcissistic men hate their mothers?

The "sailor" whom I shared about earlier, always spoke kindly and loving about his mother, but when he spoke with her on the phone, he was always talking trash on the "F*d-up* women he had had in his life. He would discuss explicit sexual encounters that he had with past women and he would say things to her like "you know how women can be..." in very angry tones as well as calling them C's and W's to her. But he never said angry things to or about her. Of course I noticed this stuff right away, and even discussed my perspective about his perspective, with him. His way of handling it was "pedestalizing" me - and saying stuff like "oh, you're different, you're better than that", and so on....and to a dumbstruck heart, that often works as an easy "out" to dissuade any doubts, as well as to manipulate, by discussing the 'quality' or 'specialness' of the narcissist's prey.

Anyway - I am and was grateful to get out of that relation fairly quickly, but still embarrassed that I let those warning flags go unheeded for as long as they did.

His mother appeared to be doting - sending him cookies and sweaters and gifts frequently - but she had divorced his father when he was 12 and all he ever did was talk about the "string of @ssholes" that marched in and out of her life after that.

He always talked badly about his own father, but whenever the 45 year old sailor needed anything ~ cash, nautical advice, new equipment for his sailboat, etc, his father was the first person he called.

I don't even like to recount this stuff from memory because it was so damaging and ugly at the time, but as I said, I am curious if the misogyny is a main character trait of narcissistic men (or women, I guess, for that matter).
Yes, they do seem to hate their mothers. Their Moons are often challenged by either Saturn or Pluto or both.

Those that have strong Cancer energy seem to make a special sub-category that enjoys being both submissive and dominating to their mothers. Some exploit the wife/gf at the mother's advancement, while others do the opposite. And some just are submissive to their mothers and the wife takes the mother's place when the mother is gone. I was just reading another one's chart today, 5th house CaSo90LiPl, 6th house Le Sa 0 Mo, his gf is around 20 years younger, he is still living with his mom. ahahahahhaha 7 subjects are co-dependents with their mothers and/or wives
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

When my dad died and we were at the funeral home, as soon as the funeral director stepped out to do some figures my grandmother (dad's mom) started telling my mother (dad's wife) that she needed to find someone else (to date) right away, and that doing this would be best for her and inevitable. Keep in mind my dad was not even in the ground yet, he was in a freezer in the same building.

There is something very wrong with the people in my life. But I don't know if they follow the same patterns you're describing...
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Then it is your dad. I'm sorry for your loss.

They aren't necessarily narcissists, yes. There are at least 5 different scenarios I can think of at the moment judging your situation.

This might not be OT. But I'd like to warn you that there is a chance that you're being triangulated. That's just one of the options. I've seen that happen with families in case of the son's passing, especially in those where people value traditional roles of men and women. The mother and the daughter in law need a new person to triangulate. If there is a chance that's you, set your boundaries right away.

I can see how such an offense (and what your grandma said was offensive to your dad) could be directed to narcs that are like the sailor Kitchy mentioned. He was most likely triangulated as a little kid, therefore he learned that's how people act to win people. That's why some of them deliberately do it to divide and conquer.

It could be that the mother is taking revenge by suggesting your mother that over feeling abandoned. Some mothers, those whose children have their Moons challenged by either Saturn and/or Pluto tend to control their children's psyche and feel threatened by their independence, that being the married life.

You see how the sailor had to corrupt her by complaining about other women to make her believe he'll never leave. He did the same with his lovers. That's because he is co-dependent. (Some narcs later use that strategy to cause sympathy and manipulate to gain whatever) The man I've mentioned, the Cancer Sun hasn't dated anyone for years. The gf won't allow it. She's getting married soon, but, as soon as he meets a woman, any woman, not just a potential partner, he reports that to her and then they attack the woman. He's an emotional slave. And now she's joined some relationship support group and she let everyone know she enjoys being beaten during intercourse. That's her corrupting him, telling him he'll get to get back at his mom on her body. Freud has gone to heaven for sure! I can't wait to see how things will develop between those two.

All of those 7 subjects had narcissistic mothers and gfs/wives, except for the one that died. He developed schizophrenia as a teen.

Narcs don't understand Venus, so they misuse her energy. They are always jealous and envious. One thing you'll notice about them all is how they can go on and on about the magnificence of their children for hours, for example. They need to weigh out two opposites, so they'll spend the same amount of time talking badly about other people always only in comparison to themselves. The majority of them don't really have anything to be proud for, so they need to put others down to feel appreciated instead.

I'm not saying defending your mom in case of offense or sharing her opinion is wrong if she's right, in that case, please do. Maybe your grandma is just supportive of your mom.

In any case, I believe it's best to find happiness away from them.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Thank you very much for sharing! That does sound like something a narc does, comparing people like that to make them compete to feel appreciated. The golden child is always happy about that. I hope none of your siblings turned into one in those circumstances.

We can measure the progress of the illness in percentages. I'll read the chart and see what questions I have to make sure if she was one or not and to what degree.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Like I said, triangulation is a typical Pluto conspiracy, and she was fairly manipulative and cunning, but it seems to me like she couldn't have controlled it as easily as the others who have their Suns creating enemies to define identity do. She didn't do it out of her own will with a purpose and a long-term goal, for the lack of better description. I believe all manipulators are narcissists, but she isn't your typical one. It's like she never got a handle of keeping all her lids closed at the same time and she applied the pattern to her children's upbringing. At times she didn't seem to understand how to, and at times she was bored and curious.

There is a Mars - Psyche - Pluto yod and a pretty insecure Moon and ascendant who got the people to do the work for her and she manipulated to organize them and never allowed them to see how they served her in order to instantly feel secure.

Here is the best description I've found yet, perhaps you'll find the answer if she was one http://www.thespiritualeclectic.com/...d-narcissists/
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

I'd like to ask everyone to send me the charts of the enablers too.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

SORRY! for being late to the ball game and coming with no idea, but here's what I've been thinking about.

General Narcissistic Traits--

Magical Thinking
Arrogance
Envy
Entitlement
Exploitation
Lack Boundaries
Shame-based personaltiy
Rejection of the Real Self in exchange for a beholded false self
Narcissistic Supply - Attention, adulation, affection, praise, etc... (Self-esteem regulation)


Heres some placement ideas for Narcissism

Narcissus (37117)
You can tell by the name..Basically if this astroid touches something personal in your chart, or something personal in another persons chart, then you'll be narcissistic.

Echo (60)
Echo represents giving yourself away to others. Your personality is "echoed" in another person. Echo shows narcissism because she is essentially rejecting her real self by craving affection and love from another person to feed her false self.
So if echo touches something personal, could also be narcissistic, but an inverted narcissism

Zodiac Signs
I don't think zodiac signs determine if someone is narcissistic really, but it's something to think about.

Aquarius - Sun in the 11th
detachment
associated with the god complex ("I'm above all or special")
genius or intelligent - triggers the "above all"
opposite of Leo, an outward friendship rather than inner. Focusing on your outer world means you don't have to get deep or in intimacy; easy narcissistic supply, especially by doing charity or performing in large groups and organizations

Libra - Sun in the 7th
similar to echo... Libra seems to be a little fake--shaping themselves just so they can be liked or have friendships--rejecting the true self

Aspects
North Node conjunct Sun
North node is agressive and wants to take shortcuts
The north node is destiny and isn't achieved until later, so the person could develop narcissism I guess

VENUS-PLUTO
This aspect seems to be the most influencial in determining narcissism. Usually narcissist aren't found unless you are in a relationship with one
Venus is about relationships of course and when aspect by pluto it triggers insecurities and or a sense of rejection either in yourself or in relationships bringing our defense mechanisms such as narcissism.

I've seen Venus Pluto and Pluto in general come up a bit
In a personal relationship where I accused someone of being a narcissist we had this as an EXACT negative aspect

And astrologers with these websites have claimed so that pluto or venus/pluto mean narcissism

These websites claim that Pluto has a huge influence regarding narcissism
http://www.thespiritualeclectic.com/...-in-the-stars/

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/na...elf-rejection/

http://angstoic.com/2015/03/pluto-and-narcissism/


Lastly as my personal opinions
Neptune-Sun Aspect and Pluto-Sun or Moon

Narcissists are extremely delusional and lack boundaries. Similar to Neptune and Sun lacking boundaries and being aware of their ego.
This aspect has a lot to do with imagination and wanting to live the grander and more glamorized life. Like a narcissist and their fantasies

Pluto-Sun, Pluto-Moon triggers a need to be powerful and manipulative or in control because of some underlying fear, especially fear of intimacy


I think it's extremely important to note that people who are selfish aren't narcissistic. They have to reject their true self.

So like a Leo wouldn't really be narcissistic because they are very good at expressing themselves from the heart and being who they are. Sun signs in general shouldn't determine narcissism.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post
I'd like to ask everyone to send me the charts of the enablers too.
I have no idea if he is a narcissist! But I've always thought he was. In synastry we had a Venus-Pluto aspect.

http://prntscr.com/azmfr6 <--- his chart
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
SORRY! for being late to the ball game and coming with no idea, but here's what I've been thinking about.

General Narcissistic Traits--

Magical Thinking
Arrogance
Envy
Entitlement
Exploitation
Lack Boundaries
Shame-based personaltiy
Rejection of the Real Self in exchange for a beholded false self
Narcissistic Supply - Attention, adulation, affection, praise, etc... (Self-esteem regulation)


Heres some placement ideas for Narcissism

Narcissus (37117)
You can tell by the name..Basically if this astroid touches something personal in your chart, or something personal in another persons chart, then you'll be narcissistic.

Echo (60)
Echo represents giving yourself away to others. Your personality is "echoed" in another person. Echo shows narcissism because she is essentially rejecting her real self by craving affection and love from another person to feed her false self.
So if echo touches something personal, could also be narcissistic, but an inverted narcissism

Zodiac Signs
I don't think zodiac signs determine if someone is narcissistic really, but it's something to think about.

Aquarius - Sun in the 11th
detachment
associated with the god complex ("I'm above all or special")
genius or intelligent - triggers the "above all"
opposite of Leo, an outward friendship rather than inner. Focusing on your outer world means you don't have to get deep or in intimacy; easy narcissistic supply, especially by doing charity or performing in large groups and organizations

Libra - Sun in the 7th
similar to echo... Libra seems to be a little fake--shaping themselves just so they can be liked or have friendships--rejecting the true self

Aspects
North Node conjunct Sun
North node is agressive and wants to take shortcuts
The north node is destiny and isn't achieved until later, so the person could develop narcissism I guess

VENUS-PLUTO
This aspect seems to be the most influencial in determining narcissism. Usually narcissist aren't found unless you are in a relationship with one
Venus is about relationships of course and when aspect by pluto it triggers insecurities and or a sense of rejection either in yourself or in relationships bringing our defense mechanisms such as narcissism.

I've seen Venus Pluto and Pluto in general come up a bit
In a personal relationship where I accused someone of being a narcissist we had this as an EXACT negative aspect

And astrologers with these websites have claimed so that pluto or venus/pluto mean narcissism

These websites claim that Pluto has a huge influence regarding narcissism
http://www.thespiritualeclectic.com/...-in-the-stars/

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/na...elf-rejection/

http://angstoic.com/2015/03/pluto-and-narcissism/


Lastly as my personal opinions
Neptune-Sun Aspect and Pluto-Sun or Moon

Narcissists are extremely delusional and lack boundaries. Similar to Neptune and Sun lacking boundaries and being aware of their ego.
This aspect has a lot to do with imagination and wanting to live the grander and more glamorized life. Like a narcissist and their fantasies

Pluto-Sun, Pluto-Moon triggers a need to be powerful and manipulative or in control because of some underlying fear, especially fear of intimacy


I think it's extremely important to note that people who are selfish aren't narcissistic. They have to reject their true self.

So like a Leo wouldn't really be narcissistic because they are very good at expressing themselves from the heart and being who they are. Sun signs in general shouldn't determine narcissism.
Thank you very much for your insight! I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression, and I've already said nothing here can be about the Sun signs, but, the fact is that the narcissitic traits are certainly the flaws of the Leo energy. (that doesn't necessarily mean the Leo Sun) I've been studying narcissism for over 4 years now. 100% of the individuals whose charts I've inspected, and I'm counting the charts that have arrived since I've started the thread, and I'm talking coverts, have prominent Leo/5th house/the Sun.

When I first started the research on the matter, I expected the Suns to be in a harsh aspect to Neptune in a number of them. That wasn't the case, but I am certain that aspect could mean the individual has to deal with the narc situation, either as the bully or the bullied.

I'll try to find the website that explained the illness in a way children could understand what it is. I remember it had tables and neon colours, but that was about 3 years ago.

Here's the definition

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy.

More, briefly:
...individuals with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also crave attention from others,
they usually want praise for their "superiority," ...

Diagnostic criteria

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or highstatus people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

https://justines2010blog.files.wordp.../03/dsm-iv.pdf

I do not believe in such thing as evil charts. A baby is just a baby. However, the map of the human experience that develops with age the chart is is not the same for anyone. Labeling a person violent, for example, just because they have Aries ASC and Mars squaring Uranus, for example is ridiculous. I've seen people do that with the charts of the domestic violence victims. There are plenty of decent people with personal planets Algol conjunctions too.

I happen to have an exact Mercury-Narcissus conjunction. Mercury rules my 1st and 10th houses and is in my 3rd house. It is squaring the vertex and pulling the monsters towards me. I have a narcissistic father who tried to make me a golden child when I was little and made my brother one when I opposed him instead. I've had to deal with the situation in my classes, at home, online, at work. And yes, I've been tested negative for the illness.

So saying that basically someone is a narcissist just because they have a conjunction is much like the inquisition, exactly what we said this thread will not be about. Whoever is using astrology to demonize people has an issue.
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder-a research

Having inspected the chart, I've concluded that there is a possibility that the person is cunning and manipulative since their aspects show certain abilities. If you are not sure what NPD is, and I can't find the website, here is a wonderful text that woke me up to it: http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html
Please study it and further analyse the behavior to determine if the subject is ill.
I can look at the synastry chart if you'd like
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