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Mundane Astrology Discuss the astrology of towns, cities, states, provinces, countries, empires, and the world in general.


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  #26  
Unread 12-18-2013, 02:02 PM
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Hey ptv.

Here are a few interesting notes i have regarding the progressed usa chart to the event chart for that same day.

It gets even more compelling when you combine all three.

usa prog chiron @ 15.41 aries conjunct transiting mars @ 15.33 aries

transiting uranus was @ 27.39 taurus conj the natal hyleg and progressed vesta.

progressed north node @ 27.35 cancer conj transit moon @ 28.15 cancer

progressed pof @ 6.42 sag & juno @ 7.03 sag conj. transit merc @ 7.24 sag & priap lil @ 7.53 sag. (With natal part of mother @ 6.05 sag & part of noble acquaintances @ 8.27 sag)

(Can't help but wonder if all that has to anything to do with all of the corageous nurses doing their duties..)

Also progressed venus @ 27.08 cap & pluto @ 27.04 cap conjunct natal part of nobility & honor @ 27.51 cap.

and, tbh, i think all of this is like the icing on top compared to the actual event chart conjunctions to usa natal that day. ill add those here too sometime.

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Unread 12-19-2013, 07:01 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Here is the list of conjunctions from the event chart for that day (pearl harbor dec. 7, 1941 7:48 am) to the Natal USA chart.

Event point: USA natal point

: 5.35 :Guidance/Inspiration: : AC + - : 5.01
: 15.41 : Surgery, Army, Police : AC + - : 15.23
: 29.42 :Transformative Growth, Destructive Ideals: : AC + - : 29.42
MC : 13.47 : 14.47
: 28.07 : Strategy : Ac + - : 28.10
: 15.16 Exile, Confidence : AC + - : 15.36
: 1.37 : Danger, Violence : Ac + - : 01.13
: 1.37 : Deceit, Vanity : Ac + - : 01.19

I think it is really interesting that the MC of the event chart is conjunct the USA's natal Saturn, and there are three parts involving saturn also being activated.... those parts seem very fitting... (surgery, army, police; Exile, confidence; danger & violence...)

very very telling.

And also, POF conjunct the part of surgery, army & police... oh so fitting.. the symbol is:
(taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala")

"(LEO 16): THE STORM ENDED, ALL NATURE REJOICES IN BRILLIANT SUNSHINE.
KEYNOTE: The surge of life and love after a major crisis.
The symbol speaks clearly for itself. How brilliant the light after the long "night of the soul"! The battered but unconquered consciousness finds itself exalted in the marriage of sunbeams and rising sap. This indeed is "Release" light and life singing in the cleansed and refreshed mind, flooded for a while by the waters of feeling.
This is the first stage in the twenty-eighth five-fold sequence. It is a sequence that reveals consciousness at its most inspiring moments of enjoyment. But these "peak experiences" can operate at several levels. The first and most basic level is that of life itself, and of the overcoming of its many crises THE JOY AND POWER OF NEW BEGINNINGS."

Also note that the reverse formula for part of war (strategy) is also being activated.

Last edited by Phoenix Venus; 12-22-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Unread 12-21-2013, 01:44 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

I'm not quite following you here, P.V., why are you using that date and time?
The attack was on Dec. 7th. [or is it just a typo, P.V.?
It is not only somewhat of a courtesy but also some what a general rule of science whenever demonstrating a 'proof' to provide and show all evidence...not to mention just being a real good idea... by which I mean: "Where's the chart?"]


From wikipedia:

"President Roosevelt formally requested the declaration {of war with Japan} in his Infamy Speech, addressed to a joint session of Congress and the nation at 12:30 pm on December 8.
The declaration was quickly brought to a vote; it passed the Senate, and then passed the House at 1:10 pm. The vote was 82 to 0 in the Senate and 388 to 1 in the House of Representatives. Jeannette Rankin, a committed Pacifist and the first woman elected to Congress (first elected in 1916), was the only vote against the Declaration in either house.
President Roosevelt signed the declaration at 4:10 pm the same day. The power to declare war is assigned exclusively to Congress in the United States Constitution, and it was therefore an open question at the time whether his signature was technically necessary. However, his signature was symbolically powerful and resolved any doubts."
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Unread 12-21-2013, 02:48 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

As it is 6:30 a.m. here and I've yet to sleep this night [now past] I'm just going to post these charts P.V. and let you have the honor of addressing them, if you care to. {as I already have the one for 4:10 p.m., Philadelphia, posted in another thread and as I am down to the 'nubs' as far as my allotted file space for the forum goes, I'm only going to give the link to that thread. It is an attachment to the initial post, here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=48229 }

attached event charts: Congress declares war on Japan 1:10 p.m. Philadelphia, Congress declares war on Japan 1:10 p.m. D.C., F.D.R. signs declaration of war on Japan 4:10 p.m. D.C.
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Unread 12-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Seems to me that, in theory, all are valid in some way more or less, but those D.C. ones are real doozies, imho...
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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:50 PM
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Ahh, yeah that was a typo, meant to say dec 7th. i got the time from wiki if i recall correctly... i will eventually have to look into that some more to make sure the time is correct as possible but the mc saturn thing does seem to give it some weight. i will post the chart tommorrow when i can get to a computer. thanks for the charts, i will give them a look now and post any findings at some point.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 04:37 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Cool, I was hoping you didn't mind a little chiding, there.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 07:41 PM
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Oh, no problem ptv, i appreciate it

I was looking at the charts symbols to see if they gave an accurate depiction of the differences between the governments involvement in the war and the ivolvement of the people.... the mc's for the 1:10 pm charts that you posted are interesting.... still thinking about the pof's.... another more detailed post to come later...
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Unread 12-23-2013, 09:32 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Here is the chart for the event of pearl harbor.


Notice the event chart's MC is almost EXACTLY (rounded to the minute) one degree orb approaching usa's natal Saturn.

I've got some interesting notes so far on the charts ptv posted. Very busy today so we will see if i can post it this evening.
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Unread 12-23-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Here are the conjunctions to the charts ptv posted for the USA declaration of war at 1:10 pm.


Here are the activated chart points that both the Philly and the DC chart share:
(all transiting planets are the same the only difference is the rotation of the axis and chart points resulting from axis positions.)


Transiting Planet position: Usa Natal Planet/ Point position


Mars @ 15.51 As + jupiter - sun : Increase & Benefits @ 14.37.23

Uranus @ 27.37 As + moon - Prenatal moon : Hyleg, Root of All @ 28.07.16


Osc. Lilith @ 19.05 As + neptune - mercury : Fraud, Divination @ 19.23.24


Waldemaths Moon @ 24.13 Asc + parsfortunae - neptune : Imprisonment @ 24.45.48

Pluto @ 5.34 Asc + neptune - uranus : Guidance, Inspiration @ 05.00.54 & NN @ 06.35.08


Chiron @ 14.27 Asc + uranus - moon : Unusual Events, Misinterpretation @ 13.33.02 & Asc + saturn - mars : Surgery, Army, Police @ 15.23.23


NN @ 17.56 Asc + sun - moon : Soul, Spirit @ 17.18.24


Neptune @ 29.43 Asc + mercury - moon : Faith, Trust @ 29.10.32 & Asc + jupiter - pluto : Transformative growth, Destructive Philosophy @ 29.41.55

Juno @ 5.22 Asc + pluto - sun : Sublimation of the Ego to the Spiritual, Organization, Miracles @ 06.25.01


Vesta @ 28.38 Asc + pluto - mars : Strategy @ 28.10.15

Priap Lil @ 8.26 &
Mercury @ 8.57 Asc + sun - parsfortunae : Noble & Illustrious Acquaintances: @ 08.27.19


Sun @ 16.17 Asc + uranus - saturn : Exile, Confidence @ 15.35.35 & Asc + neptune - pluto : Slyness @ 16.20.04


Venus @ 2.30 Asc + mercury - saturn : Danger, Violence @ 01.13.05 & Asc + venus - neptune: Deceit, Vanity @ 01.18.49

South Node @ 17.56 Asc + uranus - sun : Catastrophe @ 17.44.11
& Asc + mars - mercury : Intelligence, Skill @ 17.52.11

Here are the points that were being activated via the DC chart:


IC @ 2.21 2.13.46


Parsfortunae @ 28.34 Asc + pluto - mars: Strategy @ 28.10.15


12 h cusp @ 22.26 :aqua: Asc + mercury - neptune : Gossip, Intrusion @ 23.35.42


And the points being activated via the Philly chart:

DC @ 7.35 Asc + sun - pluto: Deposition of the Ego to the Spiritual @ 06.34.05

Parsfortunae @ 1.50 Asc + jupiter - parsfortunae : Success @ 01.35.09 & Asc + moon - jupiter : Luck, Sons @ 02.32.52


12 h cusp @ 24.29 Asc + mercury - neptune : Gossip, Intrusion @ 23.35.42

I find it very interesting that the DC pof is conjunct the usa part of strategy and the Philly pof is conjunct the usa part of success & part of luck, sons. That might be indicative of the difference between the government's and the general population's involvement in the war. We can further analyse the chart's symbols to find more information on this, which is to come in the next post.
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  #36  
Unread 12-23-2013, 11:27 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

I found three sets of symbols for these two charts (the DC & Philly 1:10 pm war declaration charts) that are rather fitting and appropriate for analysing the differences between a USA chart "for the people" and a relocation for the seat of the government.

(all symbols taken from Dane Rudyhar's "An Astrological Mandala")


DC MC @ 2.21 Cap:


"A HUMAN SOUL, IN ITS EAGERNESS FOR NEW EXPERIENCES, SEEKS EMBODIMENT.
KEYNOTE: A powerful yearning for whatever will increase the scope and depth of one's contacts with other living beings.
One wonders what the clairvoyant "saw" and said to the recorder of this symbol. How did she visualize a "human soul" or, as Marc Edmund Jones recorded it, its being "receptive to growth and understanding"? What is implied in the position of this symbol seems to be the strong drive in every human consciousness or will toward new experiences, whether they are constructive or destructive. Man may grow and gain understanding and wisdom through both types. Yet the yearning needs to be tempered by an instinctive evaluation of the end results of the experience.
This is the third phase of the fifty-fifth five-fold process. It shows us what is behind all uses of power, anabolic or catabolic: a strong DESIRE TO PROVE ONESELF."


Philly MC @ 4.04 Cap:


"INDIANS ON THE WARPATH, WHILE SOME MEN ROW A WELL-FILLED CANOE, OTHERS IN IT PERFORM A WAR DANCE.
KEYNOTE: The mobilization of physical and emotional energies in a spirit of conquest.
War is often undertaken mainly to mobilize the common will and avoid individualistic disintegration. The "Indian chief" in the symbol for Capricorn 1 may find it convenient or necessary to arouse the war spirit – perhaps under a very slight provocation – in order to more firmly establish his authority. The scene presents an extremely dynamic situation. The group (or the nation) affirms its solidarity and unity of purpose by taking the offensive. The group-life demands constant activity and challenges in order to remain healthy.
This is the last symbol of the fifty-fifth sequence. It suggests that AGGRESSIVENESS may be a necessary ingredient in the activation of the potential of growth inherent in any social group. "


Well... those two are quite fitting as the "how" of entering WW2, aren't they? I think it very appropriately shows the dynamic between the two charts in relation to the politics of the time around WW2.

desire to prove VS. aggressiveness....

i dare say!


DC POF @ 28.34 Scorpio:


"AN INDIAN SQUAW PLEADING TO THE CHIEF FOR THE LIVES OF HER CHILDREN.
KEYNOTE: Love as a principle of redemption.
Here the soul is presented as a mother whose sons (i.e. her active energies) have become disruptive forces in the collective life of the tribe. She seeks to counteract the karma of their misdeeds through her love and implorations. The soul is responsive to the experience of unity (the spiritual king or chief) but the energies of human nature often follow their self-seeking, divisive tendencies.
This is the fourth symbol of the forty-eighth sequence. It presents us with the value of prayer. The principle of wholeness in man – the soul – acts to offset or attenuate the dictates of karma. In a religious sense, Mary, the Mother, is seen as the Mediatrix, in constant acts of INTERCESSION for the sake of waylaid individuals. "


Philly POF @ 1.50 Sag:


"WHITE-CAPPED WAVES DISPLAY THE POWER OF WIND OVER SEA.
KEYNOTE: The mobilization of unconscious energies under the pressure of super-personal motives.
Wind and sea are in constant interplay, and the results of that interplay are inspiring and beautiful. In symbolism, the wind (pneuma is the early Greek word for "spirit") is associated with spiritual dynamism; the stirring of deep energies this dynamism produces obeys cosmic or super-personal rhythms, the power of which is irresistible.
At this second stage of the forty-ninth five-fold sequence we have a picture which contrasts the powerful but beautiful storms of nature with the often gory and hysterical crises of a civilization which progresses through war. The picture presented speaks of SUBTILIZATION THROUGH RHYTHMIC INTENSITY."


Wow.. the philly one makes perfect sense. Notice the quote "often gory and hysterical crises of a civiliation which progresses through war".......... fitting, ehhh???..... i can't help but think "baby boomers" when i see the "rhythmic intensity" part... but.... that might just be my scorp merc brain :P i guess that's one of the more fortunate aspects of involvement in the war.

uhhh... notice the "wind" vs "water"..... ahh.... nuclear attack vs. naval attack...???

Notice the keyword "intercession" and how fitting that is, regarding the action which would produce most fortunate results, as the seat of government would handle involvement in the war...


DC 12th H cusp @ 22.26 Aqua:


"A BIG BEAR SITTING DOWN AND WAVING ALL ITS PAWS.
KEYNOTE: The self-discipline which results from an intelligent development of individual faculties under proper training.
What constitutes the proper training of children or animals is a complex and much-disputed problem. The symbol seems to state simply that powerful life energies can be trained adequately – the implication or extension of the idea being that no training is really successful unless it leads to the realization of the value and power of self-discipline. We are constantly faced with situations which, whether we are aware of it or not, are in fact training situations; God or the Soul is the trainer. Much depends on the attitudes we assume in these situations.
This is the third symbol in the sixty-fifth sequence. We see in it the outcome of what is suggested in the two preceding ones. Character and a warm "under-standing" of what is involved in the process of growth and overcoming of emotional heaviness can be taught. We can learn to discipline our natural impulses and to use them for a more-than-personal purpose. This is DISCIPLESHIP in the true sense of the term. "


Philly 12th H cusp @ 24.29 Aqua:


"A BUTTERFLY WITH THE RIGHT WING MORE PERFECTLY FORMED.
KEYNOTE: The capacity to develop the rational and fully conscious aspect of the mind ahead of normal evolution.
What seems implied is a kind of mutation, and more specifically the special development of whatever is symbolized by the "right side" of the organism. Here, however, the spiritual body (the butterfly) is what the Image represents. A strong process of conscious individualization is suggested, perhaps at the expense of the instinctual-emotional aspect of the personality (its "left side").
This last symbol fittingly concludes this sixty-fifth sequence, which began with "A disappointed woman . . ." The five-fold set deals with the management of human energies at the emotional level; here management means overcoming – this, on the basis of negative or ego-challenging experiences. This fifth symbol refers thus to the results of a TRANSMUTATION OF EMOTIONAL ENERGIES. "

the Philly set of symbols seems notably more involved with development of emotional reactions wherease the dc set of symbols are more about strategy..... hmm.

Last edited by Phoenix Venus; 12-23-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:22 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Okay folks...

The second set of charts have some very interesting connections as well. Most of the planetary placements are the same as the last 2 charts, with the moon only moving 2 degrees. So here is the list of all "sensitive" points that these two charts are activating, for the 4:10 pm ww2 declaration signature charts.

DC chart:

AC @ 8.09 AC + - Astrology, Eccentricity @ 07.07.03 & MC + - Destiny @ 07.33.09 & @ 08.53.06

IC @ 15.14 AC + - Surgery, Army, Police @ 15.23.23

DC @ 8.09 AC + - Noble & Illustrious Acquaintances: @ 08.27.19

Philly chart:

DC @ 11.01 AC + - Radical Change @ 10.10.23

@ 6.42 AC + - POSpirit: Eros: @ 06.24.52 & Sn @ 06.35.08

MC @ 17.07 @ 16.50.13

Hmm... i'm beginning to notice a pattern... some of the same chart points being activated...

next to look at the symbols for these charts as well....

But it might be a day or two before i can get to that.

Have a merry Christmas ptv, and everyone else out there reading this.
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Unread 12-27-2013, 08:56 AM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Excellent work... I was hoping that you would also "see" what I was "seeing" ...in that the Philly and the D.C. charts both seem valid but as to something different... I just haven't had the time to sit and think it through...but I was kind of heading in the same direction that you found yourself, in that one seems to be about the nation as a whole and the other having to do with 'politics'.... or something along those lines,

Mad skills, P.V. ...you got 'em!
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Unread 12-27-2013, 08:59 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Ah thanks ptv, i learned from the greatest

Eventually I will have to put my info on Hiroshima and Nagasaki up, since it's all related. i have to find my notes... (hoping they didn't accidentally get thrown out! ) I remember that the nagasaki chart was very compelling and had a lot going on, even though Hiroshima is the one that everyone remembers... i suppose nagasaki had more of a political affect...

but in the mean time here are some of the interesting connections seen so far between the charts:

The part of Surgery, Army, Police has been seen in each of these charts, (as + saturn - mars) acting as the Part of fortune in the Pearl Harbor chart, and then in the "declaration of war" charts, Chiron was conjunct this part while the DC chart's IC was also conjuncting this point. Ic being the "why" and chiron dealing with wounds and healing, it makes tons of sense, eh?

The part of strategy (As + pluto - mars), which coincidentally (or not) is the reverse part to the part of war, has also been common among these charts. It was making a conjunction to vesta in the pearl harbor event chart, and conjunct Dc's part of fortune in the "declaration of war" chart.

And both of these parts have mars as the trigger!
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Unread 12-27-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
Ah thanks ptv, i learned from the greatest

Eventually I will have to put my info on Hiroshima and Nagasaki up, since it's all related. i have to find my notes... (hoping they didn't accidentally get thrown out! ) I remember that the nagasaki chart was very compelling and had a lot going on, even though Hiroshima is the one that everyone remembers... i suppose nagasaki had more of a political affect...

but in the mean time here are some of the interesting connections seen so far between the charts:

The part of Surgery, Army, Police has been seen in each of these charts, (as + saturn - mars) acting as the Part of fortune in the Pearl Harbor chart, and then in the "declaration of war" charts, Chiron was conjunct this part while the DC chart's IC was also conjuncting this point. Ic being the "why" and chiron dealing with wounds and healing, it makes tons of sense, eh?

The part of strategy (As + pluto - mars), which coincidentally (or not) is the reverse part to the part of war, has also been common among these charts. It was making a conjunction to vesta in the pearl harbor event chart, and conjunct Dc's part of fortune in the "declaration of war" chart.

And both of these parts have mars as the trigger!

YESH!
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Unread 12-30-2013, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
YESH!


Actually, upon taking another look at the hiroshima chart, there are some interesting connections,

For instance,

We have seen a pattern with all of these charts involving the part of fortune being highlighted and very appropriate overall in context. (The pof in the pearl harbor chart was conjunct usas part of surgery, army, police. the pof in the 4.10 pm philly declaration of war chart conjunct usas part of success.) In the hiroshima chart, the part of fortune is conjunct usas part of necessity also quite a few other usa parts with pof in the formula were being activated.


Also the hiroshima charts mars was conjunct usa natal uranus with a few parts involving uranus and/ or mars were activated.

i will have the list of aspects with the chart to come.. later.

Last edited by Phoenix Venus; 12-30-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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Dang.. i had some good stuff to post regarding the hiroshima and nagasaki charts.. but i am having trouble attaching the charts on this computer... (oh technology is so frustrating sometimes!) so it might be a few days before i can get to it... in the mean time have fun homies
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Unread 12-31-2013, 02:04 AM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post


Actually, upon taking another look at the hiroshima chart, there are some interesting connections,

For instance,

We have seen a pattern with all of these charts involving the part of fortune being highlighted and very appropriate overall in context. (The pof in the pearl harbor chart was conjunct usas part of surgery, army, police. the pof in the 4.10 pm philly declaration of war chart conjunct usas part of success.) In the hiroshima chart, the part of fortune is conjunct usas part of necessity also quite a few other usa parts with pof in the formula were being activated.


Also the hiroshima charts mars was conjunct usa natal uranus with a few parts involving uranus and/ or mars were activated.

i will have the list of aspects with the chart to come.. later.
THAT is interesting....!!!

wow...

...considering that I've read many opinions stating that the use of "the Bomb" was unnecessary and would have only been a matter of a few weeks or even days until Japan would have surrendered anyways... and today, while searching for the name of a notorious anarchist society, that used to exist, that relied on firebombing to accomplish their aims, I got lost on a 'tangent loop' and came across someones' comment to an article written about the U.S.'s use of "the Bomb" that it was not only necessary but it had been imperative that the U.S. did use it, in that Japan wouldn't have surrendered readily to an invading military force and that the U.S., and Japan, would have lost hundreds of thousands of more lives all together with the war stretching on for many more months, or for even a year or more.

...talk about your, synchronicity!

...good work, P.V...!
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Unread 12-31-2013, 05:00 AM
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Well then ptv, it might interest you to know that the hiroshima chart dc was conjunct usas part of catastrophe and part of skill. Also, hiroshima chart jupiter was conjounct usas part of self sacrifice and part of courage.

some of the symbolism does seem to support that idea, too... and remarkably seems as though it might have all been written in the stars (i mean just look at the symbol i mentioned before at the dec of war pof which talked abput the power of wind over the sea... the ic, the why, of the nagasaki chart is cap 26 which talks all about water, too... ) and the ac of the nagasaki chart is conj usas "trans of the mind" (asc +pluto-merc) with the event charts dc conj usas natal asc... which seems to support the idea that the second bomb did have influence in japans decision to surrender... so possibly both bombs held some influence... it will take a more in depth look at the charts symbolism to come to a complete picture...
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Unread 12-31-2013, 05:19 AM
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Since i cannot post the charts right now, here is the info i have:

Hiroshima: aug 6, 1945 8:16 am hiroshima, japan

nagasaki: aug 9, 1945 11:02 am nagasaki, japan

another interesting note:

Usa progressed jupiter at 23 cancer, progressed nn at 28 cancer with nagasaki mc in the middle at 26 cancer and usa natal merc at 25 cancer.
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Unread 12-31-2013, 07:38 AM
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Re: The "Part of War"

Burning the midnight oil, are we?
You are a Godsend, P.V. ...carrying on the 'Good Work', while I try to recharge my batteries... [if they can be... where's the trickle charger...oh heck, I may also need a jump start and a push too... to be honest...but, we'll see...]
E L & L
ptv
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Unread 12-31-2013, 07:42 AM
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Re: The "Part of War"

...so, cue the dang music, already...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Wf1XRUovw
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Unread 12-31-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Burning the midnight oil, are we?
You are a Godsend, P.V. ...carrying on the 'Good Work', while I try to recharge my batteries... [if they can be... where's the trickle charger...oh heck, I may also need a jump start and a push too... to be honest...but, we'll see...]
E L & L
ptv
Oh thanks ptv... besides, what else is an underling for? You get all the rest you need & i be here to help in whatever way i can.
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Unread 12-31-2013, 09:14 AM
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Re: The "Part of War"

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
Oh thanks ptv... besides, what else is an underling for? You get all the rest you need & i be here to help in whatever way i can.

Underling...?

girl friend...


I

DON'T

THINK SO...!
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Unread 12-31-2013, 02:20 PM
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Nah.. total underling, just face it. Your like, this crazy mad scientist guy who falls asleep with your face in your papers next to your mannequin and I'm your underling and you have me dust your collection of bugs everday and bring you a lunch with three peas. no sir, don't make me drop the fork again... please!

Lol jk.
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