How about the Lunar Nodes

I have some doubts about the Lunar Nodes, how were they seen in traditional astrology.

Are the South and North Node considered? What are their means?

I know some meanings used in other traditions that I would like to clarify if they are present in traditional:

- South Node related with past lifes, or this is a total Indian tradition?

- Concepts of the South refering to "scattering", "apathy", "indifference", also from India

- South being considered our "support", "ground"

- North being more mundane, what we want on life

Or, the very basic notion of South being "Origin", and North the "goal"


The timeless popular expression of "our North" being our goal (this expression exists in many languages) might be related to this? If so, I would most probably suppose a western traditional astrological origin for the expression.

Thanks

aldebaran said:

I have some doubts about the Lunar Nodes, how were they seen in traditional astrology.

Are the South and North Node considered? What are their means?

I know some meanings used in other traditions that I would like to clarify if they are present in traditional:

- South Node related with past lifes, or this is a total Indian tradition?

- Concepts of the South refering to "scattering", "apathy", "indifference", also from India

- South being considered our "support", "ground"

- North being more mundane, what we want on life

Or, the very basic notion of South being "Origin", and North the "goal"


The timeless popular expression of "our North" being our goal (this expression exists in many languages) might be related to this? If so, I would most probably suppose a western traditional astrological origin for the expression.

Thanks

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Rhetorius and after him the majority of Western Arabic and Medieval tradition sees the north node as more benefic, while the south node as more malefic. However, the north node is good with benefics and worse with malefics, and vice versa for the south.

Vettius Valens used the nodes differently though: ''It will be necessary to examine if benefics are in aspect with these positions, especially with the ascending node. If so, the nativity will be prosperous and effective. Even if the nativity is found to be average or inclined toward diminution, the native will ascend and rise to a high rank. Malefics portend upsets and accusation'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Generally every star that is configured or present with the descending node would also always be configured with the Ascending Node via whole sign aspect which is what Valens refers to. I want to note this as a different approach from the later one.

Origins, karma and goals are the modern and Indian ways to look at them as far as I know. The western tradition has struggled a bit because at the one hand those are the places of eclipses (tail and head of the dragon), at the other hand it is where the Moon ascends and descends south and north every two weeks, which has a separate astrological significance.

This is a bit quick and dirty, because there's a lot to say and I haven't thought all of it out properly in written form yet. For that I apologise.

Nodes are a tricky thing. In horary I've found the north node to be largely beneficial and the south node to be bad. That's fine, and most everyone agrees.

What I've found in birth charts is that both nodes can be rather rugged, which seems to contradict the tradition - until you dig a little bit. Jyotish sees planetary conjunctions of the nodes to be quite challenging.

So do some of the writers of the western tradition. Bonatti said that the north node conjunct the moon or the ascendant ruler can make life quite...challenging. In my experience, he's right. Arguably Jupiter can handle a NN conjunction a bit better than other planets, but that's not saying a lot. The south node tends to corrupt, and I really haven't seen it reduce maleficence by much, it seems to act more as a corrupter wherever it falls. The planet doesn't live up to its promise somehow, albeit there are situations where that can be a good thing, depending on what the promise is.

You also want to look at any planets in the bendings (that's square to the nodes) if there are any. Whatever that planet is representing in your chart could become a prominent theme in your life from time to time.

For what it's worth.

Hi. I don't know very much about traditional astrology, but I gather that the north lunar node has been traditionally referred to as the dragon's head; the south lunar node as the dragon's tail. Rudhyar has some interesting things to say about this in The Lunation Cycle. He says that the head is where we need to take in new experiences while the tail is where we give out. He notes that this does not just involve defecation, for the reproductive organs are also located around the base of the tail. So the north node can be seen as showing what we need to consciously look for in order to take in new nourishment, and the south node shows what we have already assimilated and can dispense creatively. Just as the generative organs can be satisfied irresponsibly without conscious deliberation, so the south node's sign etc. can expressed in this way.

The lunar nodes are also associated with relationships with others, and often with 'fated encounters'. This concurs with the approach discussed in the previous paragraph, because it is largely through relationships that we find new experiences and have a chance to express what we have assimilated.

I think some people say that the north lunar node is more solar; the south lunar node more lunar. But when we think deeply about the implications of this it falls apart because the solar and lunar functions are seen to each have a need to take in new experience, and also each have a need to express something of what has been absorbed.

Best wishes

Miquar