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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #26  
Unread 06-08-2018, 10:48 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Question about the outer planets

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Originally Posted by Kernix View Post
Actually,I didn't care about how they were named - I wanted to know where the keywords asscoiated with them come from. If the keywords weren't stripped from Mars, Saturn & Jupiter, then where did they come from.

As for modern vs. traditional - am I the only one who thinks it sure takes a lot of explaining to differentiate the 2 terms?
I've found that most of the terms were connected with events in history around their discovery. Uranus became associated with rebelliousness, discovery, enlightenment simply because it was discovered around the time of the French Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment. Similarly Neptune was associated with idealism, inspiration, dreams and the like because it coincided with the uprise of Romanticism. Similarly Pluto destructiveness, death, rebirth and the stuff are associated with its discovery around WW2.

Those qualities are bound to be taken from some traditional planets because traditional astrology claims to be fully coherent, complete and capable of reproducing the whole human experience only resorting to seven planets. (In traditional, rebelliousness is explained by Mars, subversion of subordinates/slaves by Saturn and trickery by Mercury, similarly inspiration and arts are related to Venus and Mercury the most, while death and destructiveness is Mars and Saturn like.)


Last edited by petosiris; 06-08-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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  #27  
Unread 06-08-2018, 11:00 PM
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Re: Question about the outer planets

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I've found that most of the terms were connected with events in history around their discovery. Uranus became associated with rebelliousness, discovery, enlightenment simply because it was discovered around the time of the French Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment. Similarly Neptune was associated with idealism, inspiration, dreams and the like because it coincided with the uprise of Romanticism. Similarly Pluto destructiveness, death, rebirth and the stuff are associated with its discovery around WW2.
However, the zeitgeist of the time each of those planets was discovered could only be seen in hindsight, after enough time had gone by to turn it into a historical era. How long did it take astrologers to assign those qualities to those planets?
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  #28  
Unread 06-09-2018, 06:17 AM
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Re: Question about the outer planets

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Originally Posted by Kernix View Post
Actually,I didn't care about how they were named - I wanted to know where the keywords asscoiated with them come from. If the keywords weren't stripped from Mars, Saturn & Jupiter, then where did they come from.

As for modern vs. traditional - am I the only one who thinks it sure takes a lot of explaining to differentiate the 2 terms?
The history of modern astrology is not so well known, but basically 20th century astrologers interested in questions like, "What does Neptune rule?" or "How does Neptune manifest in a horoscope?" tended to look at a lot of horoscopes, looking for commonalities. I've got some of the old books by one of the grand daddies of anglophone modern astrology, Alan Leo, and he indicates qualities for Aquarius (which he saw as a malefic) and Neptune but his delineations are provisional. Because of his influence on the rest of anglophone astrology, I think a lot of his delineations stuck.

So yes, some modern planets' meanings were borrowed from the traditional planets. Neptune took over some of the thematic rulerships of the moon, like alcohol, for example.

However, the modern planets also took on rulerships of phenomena that didn't exist during traditional astrology's reign, such as electricity and aviation (Uranus,) and nuclear energy (Pluto.) Venus generically rules the arts, but I think film (cinema) relates more specifically to Neptune.
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  #29  
Unread 06-09-2018, 02:20 PM
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Modern astrology only, to All

All,

The Modern Astrology Forum is ONLY dedicated to Modern Astrology. if you want to discuss Traditional astrology, do it in the Traditional Astrology forum.

Back to Modern,

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  #30  
Unread 06-09-2018, 03:00 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Question about the outer planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernix View Post
Actually,I didn't care about how they were named - I wanted to know where the keywords asscoiated with them come from. If the keywords weren't stripped from Mars, Saturn & Jupiter, then where did they come from.

As for modern vs. traditional - am I the only one who thinks it sure takes a lot of explaining to differentiate the 2 terms?
What keywords? And it's simple--Modern has 10 primary Sign-rulers, Traditional has 7. Here's an easy pattern: Originally, since the Sun and Moon move in one direction they ruled one Sign each, and the planets have both direct and retrograde motion, and ruled two Signs each, with 5 planets then ruling 10 Signs, for a total of 12. But, with the use of 8 Planets, the pattern changes: Sun, Moon, and Planets all rule 1 Sign each, except the two Inner Planets, Mercury and Venus, which appear as both Morning and Evening "stars", and therefore rule 2 Signs each, for a total of 12.
As for assigning Rulerships to the recently incorporated Planets, here's another pattern: Beginning the Seasonal-year with Sun entering Aries (a Modern practice), as each Planet beyond Saturn was brought into the fold, the more Seasonally advanced Sign of the 2 Signs ruled by the outermost Planet still ruling 2, was given to the next Planet out. Aquarius is more Seasonally advanced than Capricorn, Pisces more so than Sagittarius, and Scorpio even more so than Aries. So, the way Rulership was expanded fits this pattern.
As for Planetary characteristics, [IMO] it's ridiculous to equate slow-moving Uranian influence with that of quicksilver Mercury, slow-moving Neptune with fast-moving Venus, or slow-moving Pluto with fast-moving Mars. There's no need to mix characteristics of other Planets to jury-rig descriptions of the Outermost Planets--each has its own unique type of influence.

Last edited by david starling; 06-09-2018 at 08:17 PM.
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  #31  
Unread 06-09-2018, 03:20 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Question about the outer planets

Kernix, what are your "keywords" for the Sun, Moon, and Merc through Saturn? Usually, Modern has keywords for the Signs, not the Planets. There are possible keyword connections for the Outermost Planets and their rulerships: Uranian influence increases cosmic-Awareness, and Aquarius has the keyword "Knowledge". Neptune is a channel to Spirituality, and the Piscean keyword is "Belief". And, Pluto relates to Life after Death, which explains what it is that Scorpio really "Desires".

Last edited by david starling; 06-09-2018 at 03:22 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 06-09-2018, 08:37 PM
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Smile Re: Question about the outer planets

To get a sense of what sort of influence the Sun, Moon, and Planets are about, look at the Elements of the Signs they rule. All 3 Fire-sign and all 3 Earth-sign rulers in Modern are included in the 7 pattern of Traditional. Modern adds 1 Air-sign ruler and 2 Water-sign rulers, and all 3 "go deep", compared to the closer, faster-moving Modern rulers of those Elements.

Last edited by david starling; 06-09-2018 at 09:01 PM.
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