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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.

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Unread 03-02-2008, 05:04 PM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 49
"Fake" Applying Trines

Hi all!

I have a technical question about horary, so I am not really asking for an interpretation of this chart, but about one particular aspect of it, or rather, a few of them. Maybe this should be in one of the more obscure threads in horary, like skills or something, but I'm afraid no one would see it, plus, it IS a relational question I asked. I do not feel like publicizing the question itself right now, but suffice it to say that it is a yes/no question.

What I saw immediately was the apparent trine between Venus and Mars which are the two significators here. Then I realized that this isn't actually a real trine, but a "fake" one, a derived trine that sees fit to draw in there as if planets would derive strength from the trine of a farther away planet.. Is this really the case that the energy of a trine gets passed along like that? In this case Neptune (and NN) is the closest trine to Mars. As you can see Venus is an improbably 13 degrees away from Mars, and Neptune, at 22 degrees, is itself 6 degrees from Venus.

1) Is this an applying trine, or a future applying trine that counts as a yes?

Another thing I wonder about is timing which, as we all know, is really hard to figure. I try to learn from the posts on this forum, and it seems there are different methods to interpret applying aspects. Sometimes an astrologer will count the actual degrees until the planets "meet", even though by that time the first (slower) planet will have moved already again. Other times it seems an ephemeris is used to determine the actual date the two planets meet up, and they use that to determine the answer.

2) When are you supposed to use which method?

In this particular case, Venus will eventually meet with Mars when the latter is in beginning Cancer. Is that what I should use in this case?

Then there is the matter of the Moon. I have read that some astrologers don't really use the Moon as secondary siginificator of the querent, (except where absolutely necessary, like Cancer rising), and they use the Moon mainly to determine events. In this case, the last aspect of it will be an inconjunct with Mars. On the other hand, that's only the case if you look at Mars as being static. Otherwise he will already be in Cancer.

3) Does the inconjunct still apply in that case, when the first planet has already moved out of sign? (If yes, then this inconjunct means, no doubt, that I will ultimately be unhappy, uncomfortable, disappointed, stressed out, or something along those lines, with the outcome? If the inconjunct is invalid, then the last aspect would be a semisextile to Uranus, or a conjunction to PoF, I suppose?)

Any help would be appreciated so much.

I hope I posted in the correct area in this forum, but feel free to move it, of course.


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Unread 03-03-2008, 02:27 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A green and pleasant land.
Posts: 2,748
Re: "Fake" Applying Trines

Hi ceres,

This seems to be as good a place as any to post this, although 'Other Horary Topics' would probably be more accurate.

1. In the case of this Venus/Mars aspect, what the Astrodienst chart shows is an applying trine for a *natal* chart. Since the Astrodienst programme uses the Natal Chart Wheel even for horary questions, we are shown a wide-orbed trine between the Aquarius Venus and the Gemini Mars.

For horary, this will not work. This is not a trine for a horary chart. The two planets are not in orb, and with Mars' imminent change to Cancer they will be even more out of orb.

You cannot extrapolate a 'yes' (e.g. applying trine) from this particular aspect because it will take so long for the actual aspect, a trine from Cancer Mars to Pisces Venus, to perfect, and Mars will have left Gemini by the time Venus gets to late Aquarius.

In short, in horary, this is not seen as an applying trine. It's simply too far away.

2. The Moon should, IMO, ALWAYS be used as the secondary significator for the querent, unless Cancer is the cusp ruler for another significator pertinent to the question (e.g. the quesited). If not used for the querent, it should be used to judge the *action* of the chart, as well as the general 'thrust' of the question.

In your question, the last aspect the Moon made was a trine to Saturn. Before that, an *opposition* to Mars. The next aspect it makes is a sextile to the Pisces Sun.

I would strongly recommend that you avoid inconjuncts, semisesquiquadrates, etc. in horary. Just stick to the usual aspects: trine, sextile, conjunction, opposition. You don't need any others to get your answer; they are utterly unnecessary.

3. For timing, it really is a personal preference, I think, for how you work it; although Frawley and others use the planets' meeting *while in motion* to judge timing; e.g. not the static degrees, but the forward degrees.

But in your query, the meeting of Venus and Mars does not happen, as too much else interferes beforehand, and the Moon carries no light from one to the other.

Hope this helps.

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Unread 03-03-2008, 06:55 PM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 49
Re: "Fake" Applying Trines

Thanks for clearing this up, AG!

And, as usual, it's awesome how the chart reflects reality....

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applying, fake, trines

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