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  #1176  
Unread 06-16-2020, 09:33 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
So benevolent prejudice is good, but malevolent is bad?
If you don't act according to your prejudice, whether malevolent or benevolent, no harm done, and you're not what I'd consider a true racist.

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  #1177  
Unread 06-16-2020, 09:36 AM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

In an experiment run by Judd, Park, Ryan, Brauer, and Kraus (1995), perceptions of African Americans held by European Americans show that they held hostile beliefs indicating that they viewed African Americans as hostile, cliquish, irresponsible, and loud. However, the same European American participants held benevolent beliefs that African Americans were athletic, musical, religious, and had strong family ties. The study was also done with African American participants who were asked to share their beliefs about European Americans. The African Americans said that European Americans were self-centered, greedy, stuffy/uptight, and sheltered from the real world. However, the same African Americans held benevolent beliefs that European Americans were intelligent, organized, independent, and financially well-off. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_prejudice
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  #1178  
Unread 06-16-2020, 09:43 AM
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
In an experiment run by Judd, Park, Ryan, Brauer, and Kraus (1995), perceptions of African Americans held by European Americans show that they held hostile beliefs indicating that they viewed African Americans as hostile, cliquish, irresponsible, and loud. However, the same European American participants held benevolent beliefs that African Americans were athletic, musical, religious, and had strong family ties. The study was also done with African American participants who were asked to share their beliefs about European Americans. The African Americans said that European Americans were self-centered, greedy, stuffy/uptight, and sheltered from the real world. However, the same African Americans held benevolent beliefs that European Americans were intelligent, organized, independent, and financially well-off. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_prejudice
I really like the use of the terms "African-American" and "European-American", instead of color-coding them as "Black" and "White".

Last edited by david starling; 06-16-2020 at 10:12 AM.
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  #1179  
Unread 06-16-2020, 10:39 AM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Hey, a white guy invented the flush toilet!

Gotta admire the Caucasian European culture for that!
Invention of first simple toilets was 2500 BCE credited to Mesopotamia
First known toilet showed up in Pakistan, India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaSrf2DNy5w


.
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  #1180  
Unread 06-16-2020, 10:46 AM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

*

Lee died in 1870, as Democrats and ex-Confederates
were commencing a wave of terrorist violence
that would ultimately reimpose their domination over the southern states.

The KKK was founded in 1866
there is no evidence Lee ever spoke up against it.
On the contrary

he darkly intimated in his interview with the Herald
that the South might be moved to violence again
if peace did not proceed on its terms. That was prescient.
Lee is a pivotal figure in American history worthy of study.

Neither the man who really existed
nor the fictionalized tragic hero of the Lost Cause
is a hero worthy of a statue in a place of honor.
As one Union veteran angrily put it in 1903
when Pennsylvania was considering
placing a statue of Lee at Gettysburg,

“....If you want historical accuracy as your excuse
then place upon this field
a statue of Lee holding in his hand the banner under which he fought

bearing the legend:

‘....We wage this war
against a government conceived in liberty and dedicated to humanity....’..”

*

WOW!!!

Black protester carries white man through angry crowd to safety
to 'stop someone from being killed - his life was under threat'.



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  #1181  
Unread 06-16-2020, 11:37 AM
eekndyn eekndyn is offline
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I really like the use of the terms "African-American" and "European-American", instead of color-coding them as "Black" and "White".
Why use the term African American, or European American when most are born in America making us American.

As for the post that was deleted, which I won't call you out. If you live in America you are privileged. Doesn't matter what race you are. If you have good morals you are privileged. If your parents worked their asses off to keep you out of poverty, you are privileged. As I said before, you treat others by the context of their character not by the race. Most normalized people do not wake up and think oh today I will make it a point and ruin the lives other another because they are different than me. If you want to stop racism stop talking about and treat others the way you want to be treated.
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  #1182  
Unread 06-16-2020, 12:52 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by eekndyn View Post
Why use the term African American, or European American when most are born in America making us American.

As for the post that was deleted, which I won't call you out. If you live in America you are privileged. Doesn't matter what race you are. If you have good morals you are privileged. If your parents worked their asses off to keep you out of poverty, you are privileged. As I said before, you treat others by the context of their character not by the race. Most normalized people do not wake up and think oh today I will make it a point and ruin the lives other another because they are different than me. If you want to stop racism stop talking about and treat others the way you want to be treated.
It's about one's cultural heritage.
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  #1183  
Unread 06-16-2020, 01:17 PM
eekndyn eekndyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It's about one's cultural heritage.
There are melatonin deficient Africans.
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  #1184  
Unread 06-16-2020, 01:56 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by Inquisag View Post
You're right Dirius, I have been silent about her statement. I did not want to agree with you because I disagreed with several statements you made. The statement she made was racist by the dictionary definition of racist - "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race." There is really no getting around it. Thank you for being persistent.
In aquarius7000 defense, she didn't say it out of malice or hatred - and it was a minor thing to be honest.

But there is this tendency to ignore racism that comes from "left-leaning" individuals. Or racism that comes from minorities. Or from progressive politicians.
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  #1185  
Unread 06-16-2020, 02:31 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Here is an example of a relative large and growing racist religious group of black people that claims to follow Christ.

''On December 10, 2019, a kosher market in Jersey City was attacked by two individuals. The store's owner, an employee, and one customer were killed, as was Detective Joseph Seals. There are reports that the alleged perpetrators may have been members of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement.

There are many sects which refer to themselves with variations of the name Black Hebrew Israelites. Some, but not all, are outspoken anti-Semites and racists. It should be emphasized that the extremist and anti-Semitic sects of Black Hebrew Israelites are unrelated to the thousands of black Jews and other Jews of color in the US, who are genuine members of the Jewish faith. Furthermore, they should not be confused with Ethiopian Jews who mostly live in Israel today. Anti-Semitic Black Hebrew Israelites assert that white people are agents of Satan, Jews are liars and false worshipers of God, and blacks are the true “chosen people” and are racially superior to other ethnicities.'' - https://www.adl.org/resources/backgr...rew-israelites

This movement along the fellow vitriolic nation of Islam deserve a bit stronger condemnation.
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  #1186  
Unread 06-16-2020, 05:13 PM
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by eekndyn View Post
There are melatonin deficient Africans.
A good reason for using "African-American" instead of "Black".
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  #1187  
Unread 06-16-2020, 05:52 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

A good reason for using "African-American" instead of "Black".

On the contrary
The term “African American” has a tendency to create
a disposition for implicit bias
by making “Black” people seem recent immigrants.

“White” people are not called European Americans
but instead are called Americans of European descent.

and

using “White” instead of “European American”
is to identify
in such a way
as to put “White” people
in an elite catagory
inferring “Whites” are the original Americans.
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  #1188  
Unread 06-16-2020, 06:33 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Maybe there was originally one human race physically speaking that in the beginning of time travelled in secret water slides under the earth grounds to the different continents and then erased their memory of their one human origin, placed out skeletons of artificial monkeys and apes all over the world and then imprinted strings of dna from them in the human dna to make it seem like we were connected to primates originally and not the original human race that created the primates?

Does not at all sound like a conspiracy theory to me!

Y
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  #1189  
Unread 06-16-2020, 06:46 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
No drama, please. Just well-considered insights, and personal observations.
I judged my post bearing points that might serve the threads agenda if you look at the purpose behind it with respect to your intentions.

Y
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  #1190  
Unread 06-16-2020, 08:18 PM
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Should I start a similar campaign jumping from member to member asking them if they find Dirius’ campaign as harassment of a member (me in this case), mobbing against a member by approaching other members and systematically asking them - if they find my statement racist - like putting words in people’s mouths!!!

What is the dictionary definition of harassment, ridicule and mobbing??

Reaching out to member after member to get them to agree that a person is being racist - despite that he author of that statement has clarified their intent. What is the dictionary definition of people ‘ganging up’. This is a perfect example on this thread of racism!! Ridiculousl and abominable. That members even respond when clearly they can see what Dirius is working towards...

A real lowly, highly offensive, personally attacking and disgusting behaviour .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisag View Post
You're right Dirius, I have been silent about her statement. I did not want to agree with you because I disagreed with several statements you made. The statement she made was racist by the dictionary definition of racist - "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race." There is really no getting around it. Thank you for being persistent.

Last edited by aquarius7000; 06-16-2020 at 08:24 PM.
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  #1191  
Unread 06-16-2020, 08:19 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
On the contrary
The term “African American” has a tendency to create
a disposition for implicit bias
by making “Black” people seem recent immigrants.

“White” people are not called European Americans
but instead are called Americans of European descent.

and

using “White” instead of “European American”
is to identify
in such a way
as to put “White” people
in an elite catagory
inferring “Whites” are the original Americans.
I agree that "African-American" doesn't distinguish recent immigrants from those whose family-tree went through the hell known as "Slavery".
Neither does the appellation, "Black".
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  #1192  
Unread 06-16-2020, 08:31 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

aquarius7000, are you originally from India? In my experience only. India has a lot of divisions by geography, language, culture, custom, class, caste. So Indians are more used to talking about difference casually than people in most other countries. Americans and other westerners can find it uncomfortable. Definitely doesn’t make you racist.
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  #1193  
Unread 06-16-2020, 08:39 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Passiflora, let me begin by saying that I am very allergic to people treating others unfairly. More allergic to people misconstruing what people say, attack others to secure a win or popularity for themselves.

And, with the afore - I don't think that our Western World should at all find talking about differences uncomfortable. I understand absolutely though that it does. I mean think about it - how Europe - the West - actually thrived on creating differences for 100's of years. They used the divide and rule concept as colonists to create differences and keep the locals busy with that whilst they looted their wealth away. Of course it makes them uncomfortable. When is truth comfortable?!

In the West, we are just very good at shutting people up, and pushing problems that we created under the carpet - when they become known, all under the big farce of 'political correctness'. So yes, the West is very uncomfortable about it.

Anyway, I am done with this thread. Good day.
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Last edited by aquarius7000; 06-16-2020 at 08:50 PM.
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  #1194  
Unread 06-16-2020, 10:15 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
What is the dictionary definition of harassment, ridicule and mobbing??
The term would be witch-hunt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-...se_of_the_term

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Should I start a similar campaign jumping from member to member asking them if they find Dirius’ campaign as harassment of a member (me in this case), mobbing against a member by approaching other members and systematically asking them - if they find my statement racist - like putting words in people’s mouths!!!


Reaching out to member after member to get them to agree that a person is being racist - despite that he author of that statement has clarified their intent. What is the dictionary definition of people ‘ganging up’. This is a perfect example on this thread of racism!! Ridiculousl and abominable. That members even respond when clearly they can see what Dirius is working towards...

A real lowly, highly offensive, personally attacking and disgusting behaviour .
I'm sorry if you feel that way, not my intention to be honest, but I don't think there is anything wrong to ask other members about their position on your statement.

It is a political thread after all. I don't think you are a bad person - or a racist for the matter. I think your statement was. I also don't believe it is personal, given I refered to your statement, not to you as a person.
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  #1195  
Unread 06-16-2020, 10:16 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
I mean think about it - how Europe - the West - actually thrived on creating differences for 100's of years. They used the divide and rule concept as colonists to create differences and keep the locals busy with that whilst they looted their wealth away. Of course it makes them uncomfortable. When is truth comfortable?!
Like every other culture in the world, who has fought and conquered other nations for their land. This behaviour is not unique to Europe or the West - but somehow it is the only one that gets blamed.

Did you know that while Europe and most of its junior colonies abolished slavery by the mid 19th century - slavery was still prevalent in the rest of the world?

Iran had slavery in 1929.
Ethiopia had slavery until 1942.
Japan had slavery until 1945.

Most of these nations gave up on slavery because of the influence, either by diplomacy or force, from western powers who pressured them to abolish slavery
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Last edited by Dirius; 06-16-2020 at 10:25 PM.
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  #1196  
Unread 06-16-2020, 10:28 PM
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

A good reason for using "African-American" instead of "Black".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

On the contrary
The term “African American” has a tendency to create
a disposition for implicit bias
by making “Black” people seem recent immigrants.

“White” people are not called European Americans
but instead are called Americans of European descent.

and

using “White” instead of “European American”
is to identify
in such a way
as to put “White” people
in an elite catagory
inferring “Whites” are the original Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

I agree that "African-American"
doesn't distinguish recent immigrants
from those whose family-tree went through the hell known as "Slavery".
Neither does the appellation, "Black".

The term “African American” has a tendency to create
a disposition for implicit bias
by making “Black” people seem recent immigrants.
i.e.
"Whites" are “European American” recent immigrants
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  #1197  
Unread 06-17-2020, 12:01 AM
Inquisag Inquisag is offline
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Should I start a similar campaign jumping from member to member asking them if they find Dirius’ campaign as harassment of a member (me in this case), mobbing against a member by approaching other members and systematically asking them - if they find my statement racist - like putting words in people’s mouths!!!

What is the dictionary definition of harassment, ridicule and mobbing??

Reaching out to member after member to get them to agree that a person is being racist - despite that he author of that statement has clarified their intent. What is the dictionary definition of people ‘ganging up’. This is a perfect example on this thread of racism!! Ridiculousl and abominable. That members even respond when clearly they can see what Dirius is working towards...

A real lowly, highly offensive, personally attacking and disgusting behaviour .
Actually, I began writing two retorts to Dirius' claim that the statement was racist and I could not finish and post them because I could not make a reasonable argument. I did not think your responses contradicted her claim. I think that any racist statements made in a thread about racism should be called out as such because the person making the statement may not have realized that it was racist.

I am fortunate in that I get called out on statements I didn't think were racist, but are, by my daughter before I say anything to someone besides her. I try to rid myself of unconscious bias I have against people, who don't look like me and who look like me, everyday. I prefer knowing if I have been misinformed or digested information incorrectly.
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  #1198  
Unread 06-17-2020, 05:27 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
The term “African American” has a tendency to create
a disposition for implicit bias
by making “Black” people seem recent immigrants.
i.e.
"Whites" are “European American” recent immigrants
Yeah, but a recent immigrant from Africa is considered "Black". So, what's the difference?
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Unread 06-17-2020, 05:38 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisag View Post
Actually, I began writing two retorts to Dirius' claim that the statement was racist and I could not finish and post them because I could not make a reasonable argument. I did not think your responses contradicted her claim. I think that any racist statements made in a thread about racism should be called out as such because the person making the statement may not have realized that it was racist.

I am fortunate in that I get called out on statements I didn't think were racist, but are, by my daughter before I say anything to someone besides her. I try to rid myself of unconscious bias I have against people, who don't look like me and who look like me, everyday. I prefer knowing if I have been misinformed or digested information incorrectly.
Admiring traits that happen to be ingrained in the culture of a particular race doesn't make one a racist.

The fact that Dirius admires things about the European culture which was developed mostly (not entirely), by the race known as "white", or "Caucasian", doesn't make him a racist. He just admires some of the traits that happen to be engrained in the European culture.

Last edited by david starling; 06-17-2020 at 05:40 AM.
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  #1200  
Unread 06-17-2020, 08:45 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: A Discussion Thread About Racism in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
aquarius7000, are you originally from India? In my experience only. India has a lot of divisions by geography, language, culture, custom, class, caste. So Indians are more used to talking about difference casually than people in most other countries. Americans and other westerners can find it uncomfortable. Definitely doesn’t make you racist.
Aren't there a lot of similarities between racist and casteist oppression? Like between "Untouchability" and Black Segregation?

''Despite its constitutional abolition in 1950, the practice of "untouchability"-the imposition of social disabilities on persons by reason of birth into a particular caste- remains very much a part of rural India. Representing over one-sixth of India's population-or some 160 million people-Dalits endure near complete social ostracization. "Untouchables" may not cross the line dividing their part of the village from that occupied by higher castes. They may not use the same wells, visit the same temples, or drink from the same cups in tea stalls. Dalit children are frequently made to sit at the back of classrooms. In what has been called India's "hidden apartheid," entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste.'' - https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/glo...ste0801-03.htm
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