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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Unread 05-01-2020, 09:24 PM
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Arrow Re: Interpretation of degrees?

Two esoteric degrees in the sign of Taurus, which has 2 star clusters: the Pleiades and Hyades. 10' Taurus (May day today) and 20' Taurus (represented as 3:40 hours/AM - it tends to fall on Mother's day here in North America).

Sabian symbol for 10' Taurus: A (Red Cross) Nurse Warm in Sympathy. Or A Woman Sprinkling Long Rows of Flowers.

and for 20' Taurus: Wisps of Clouds Streaming Across the Sky. Or A Moving Finger Points to Significant Passages of Time.

I would thought 10' Taurus had more to do with Mother's day and 20' Taurus about May day itself. In astronomy, the constellation's brightest magnitude star Aldebaran (Alpha Tauri) is in 9' Taurus or actually, 21' Taurus (4 hours, 35 minutes in right ascension). And fun fact Pioneer 10 is headed to the direction of Aldebaran and it'll take 2 million years from now to reach there.

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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!

Last edited by CapAquaPis; 05-01-2020 at 09:27 PM.
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Unread 05-02-2020, 01:01 AM
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Re: Interpretation of degrees?

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Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
Two esoteric degrees in the sign of Taurus, which has 2 star clusters: the Pleiades and Hyades. 10' Taurus (May day today) and 20' Taurus (represented as 3:40 hours/AM - it tends to fall on Mother's day here in North America).

Sabian symbol for 10' Taurus: A (Red Cross) Nurse Warm in Sympathy. Or A Woman Sprinkling Long Rows of Flowers.

and for 20' Taurus: Wisps of Clouds Streaming Across the Sky. Or A Moving Finger Points to Significant Passages of Time.

I would thought 10' Taurus had more to do with Mother's day and 20' Taurus about May day itself. In astronomy, the constellation's brightest magnitude star Aldebaran (Alpha Tauri) is in 9' Taurus or actually, 21' Taurus (4 hours, 35 minutes in right ascension). And fun fact Pioneer 10 is headed to the direction of Aldebaran and it'll take 2 million years from now to reach there.
So, you're back in this old thread again, the one that had lain dormant for so long when you revived it last year contending, or implying, that the Sabian Symbols you brought into question were inappropriate, as for a reason you claimed was, because that degree is known by some school of thought, or another, to be a malefic degree.
And I replied that there are no inherently malefic degrees in the Zodiac nor anything material placed in the heavens by our Creator that is intended to be as such.
If, let's say as for an example, your Astrological Part of Catastrophe happens to be in the same Sign and degree as Saturn or Pluto, for two examples of possible effect that can activate that Part, at birth, or by transit, and possibly even progression, then you might truly have a genuine cause to sweat a little.

The Sabian Symbol given for the 10th degree of Taurus is that of [ibid.]

TAURUS 10: A RED CROSS NURSE.


KEYNOTE:
The compassionate linking of all men.

This symbol reveals the feeling of human cooperation at the stage of pure altruism and service to the social Whole. On that foundation of Christ love (agape, or true companionship), man can reach a still higher level of experience made possible by the refinement of the substance of his being, his consciousness and his will. This goes beyond imagination and faith in the future - beyond Christmas tree celebrations - for it implies going into the dark to bring life and love to the tormented and the deprived.

At this final stage of the five-fold sequence we see what is finally open as new potentiality to the 'widow before an open grave' — the closing symbol of the preceding sequence. Personal attachment in love to a husband or wife has changed level becoming a
CONSECRATION TO HUMANITY.
"
This degree happens to be where the Part of Mans' Marriage is as derived from my natal chart.
It rather clearly explains why I have never married and have had long stretches of celibacy throughout my lifetime... and I will be 67 years of age on this May 5th.
One who is CONSECRATED TO HUMANITY", such as s monk of certain Orders, or a yogi of certain Orders of Yoga, or a Templar Knight, most often takes a vow of celibacy and, in addition, some even live their lives in isolation, just as many of those monks and yogis that live in monasteries and ashrams do.
As a sishya of the bij, I am not to go into seclusion but rather immerse myself in human society, among my fellow humakind, I never took a vow of celibacy, because it is not required that I do so, it's just the way that path unfolds or, at least as to, how it unfolded for me.

I am a yogi, a "sisya of the bij, OM", the Word of God is my Satguru and I am not to have any other as my means of salvation. [as explained by Swami Sivananda in his book "Japa Yoga"]That renders me as impartial, and thus unbiased, towards all other archetypes, avatars, satgurus, and the like and if they are legitimately that and you, or anyone else, that does have anyone of them in that role for you , and you earnestly follow the path they have given for you, and keep the rites of your faith holy and sacrosanct and faithfully employ them, you will achieve that goal which you have been promised by your faith. or your faiths' archetype of spiritual achievement. All paths to God are valid and worthy [as long as they are true faiths] and, then ultimately, you will realize at some point on your path that your only obstacle is yourself. As long as you remain intent on reaching that goal and don't allow yourself to be distracted by any allurement that is not a part of that path you will not fail in reaching that goal... you won't become an obstacle to yourself.

If you read Rudhyar's presentation [I am only recommending Rudhyar's presentation and interpretations as I have found then to be the most clearly and extensively explained imho, and that they certainly work best for myself] for the 30th degree of Virgo, which is the 1st step in the process of 360 such steps [or phases] of spiritual evolution that culminates with transformation into that which one must become in order to exist in the higher vibration dimension of existence that those who succeed do dwell, you will find that the Sabian Symbol for that degree is stating exactly that, as Dane presents the Sabian for the Sign and degree as... [ibid.]

"VIRGO 30: TOTALLY INTENT UPON COMPLETING AN IMMEDIATE TASK, A MAN IS DEAF TO ANY ALLUREMENT."

..and Dane's 'Keynote' phrase for that Sabian Symbol is given as...[ibid.]
"KEYNOTE: The total concentration required for reaching any spiritual goal."

....as to which Dane then offers us his summation of the symbolism that is found for that degree [ibid.]
"This is the culminating step, the decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past, glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its...".

and the Keywords to be aware of, that is to say as to how He puts it all "in a nutshell", so to speak...[ibid.]
"CONQUEST OF ILLUSION."

The 360 Sabian Symbols are in their totality a process of transformation and they are not exclusive to the Zodiac. The Zodiac is a construct of mind and was divided into 360 degrees in order to work with that process of transformation as those 360 phases have existed since the very beginning when the Universe was created. Humankind came later.

As the process of this planets' own yearly transformation, that we were born on, are in fact made of, which in turn was made of our Suns matter, begins every year with the Spring Equinox, So does the Sabian Symbol of the first degree Aries begin at the very moment of the Vernal equinox, and also gives explanation as for why the Sabian Symbols must be used in reference to the Tropical Zodiac. The Signs are ever moving in relation to the Equinoxes, and that is why the attributes of the Signs as they apply to you as a person must be referenced as to the Sidereal Zodiac. Thus you are also given the basis of an explanation as to why the Sabians are not relative to any Sing of the Zodiac except as a reference of placement as to where and when they begin as that process and where they culminate as that process of transformation.
...and why they also have nothing to do with man made holidays and observances of the temporal calendar.


...and btw, the Sabian for the 20th degree of Taurus is [ibid.]

"TAURUS 20: WISPS OF WING-LIKE CLOUDS STREAMING ACROSS THE SKY.

KEYNOTE:
The awareness of spiritual forces at work.

Any emergence of life potentialities from the depth of the vast Unconscious is answered by the spiritual activity of superconscious forces in a cosmic kind of antiphony. The individual who has taken a new step in their evolution should look for the 'Signature' of divine Powers confirming their progress. It may reveal the meaning of what is to come next. The 'wing-like clouds' may also symbolize the presence of celestial beings (devas, angels) blessing and subtly revealing the direction to take, the direction of "the wind" of destiny.

This is the fifth stage of the tenth five-fold sequence. It concludes a process, having experienced which the individual should find themselves more securely established in their own original nature, receiving the
BLESSINGS of super-natural forces.
"


...and the Sabian Symbol for the 21st degree of Taurus is; [ibid.]

"TAURUS 21: A FINGER POINTING TO A LINE IN AN OPEN BOOK.

KEYNOTE:
Learning to discern what in your culture and religion is meaningful to you personally.

This symbol evokes the traditional practice, when one is in need of guidance, of opening at random a Sacred Book (for Christians, the Bible) and spontaneously placing one's finger on a paragraph. We are parts of a cultural-religious whole, and every whole has a message for its many parts, if these are willing to submit their little wills to the great meaning and destiny of the whole. In an even broader sense, the open mind can learn to detect "signatures" in many events which he has allowed to occur. The too great reliance on repeated symbolizations can lead to a schizoid state of over-subjective dependence upon signs and omens.

This is the first stage of the eleventh five-fold sequence of symbolic phases in the general process of 'Differentiation' (Act One). By relying on cultural guidance a person identifies himself with a differentiated type of collective response to a particular environment. It is a state of
SUBSERVIENCE TO COLLECTIVE VALUES.
"

I do so urge you to get a copy of Dane's book on the Sabian Symbols [or Marc Edmond Jones, or even Blain Bovee, for that matter, Lynda Hill's too if you would like to, but I do recommend using Bovee and Hill for supplemental, additional, understanding but that is IMHO, of course.] Dane's book should be read from cover to cover to truly understand why He presents them in the manner as He does and why they are also so important in use for the House cusp interpretations [and I'm not saying that Jones or any of the other authors I have mentioned don't do the same, for the reason I haven't read enough from those books yet as to make such a evaluation.
But if you know those other authors in fact do, or even if you don't have any use for techniques of chart interpretation that involve symbolism found for the degrees of House cusps, as such, then choose what author you will.
]

But as to whichever of the books you do choose to study of the four I've given, please read it thoroughly, and then LEARN IT, KNOW IT, AND LIVE IT"

It's been my pleasure to serve to the spiritual needs of my fellow members of our human race.

We are ultimately becoming ONE RACE, AS EVENTUALLY ALL FIVE OF THE RACES OF HUMANKIND WILL MELD TOGETHER OVER TIME.

I now presently know for certain, due to my recent acquisition of analysis of my DNA, that I am a mixture of at least four of those "Five Races", those that are identified by the colours Black, Red, Yellow, and White and that of the fifth is yet pending a decision by science when they have enough samples identified as such in the data banks of their computers.

Which demonstrates that just as I have no reason to be, nor am I, biased towards any one faith over another, I have no bias towards any particular racial type, or mixture of types, over another either.

We will all Be One, in the Word and the Light, when we all have successfully completed that process of spiritual transformation.

OM TAT SAT OM
All Glory to God.
Devananda, aka piercethevale
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-02-2020 at 11:58 PM.
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Unread 05-03-2020, 07:41 AM
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Re: Interpretation of degrees?

Greetings.

I'm going to attempt another way, a different approach, of explaining what the Sabian Symbols are and what they mean to us all and maybe it'll help a few people that might need another, or different, explanation by which to understand....I hope that I am successful or at least that this attempt helps even just one person.

You can't assign the location of the Sabian Symbols to any fixed star or constellation, in fact nothing that one can point to in the Heavens has anything to do with, as to, where the Sabian Symbols are. Not where they begin, or end, not even a single one of them. They are not affixed to any thing in the Heavens nor are they even affixed to only the realm of astrology. They represent what is within any cycle found in nature that is a cycle of transformation.

Our planet earth goes through a cycle of transformation in a years time. Beginning at the Vernal Equinox when all nature blooms with new life and the Sun completes its journey through the first 90 phases, the first 90 Sabian Symbols of the 90 degrees from Aries 01* to Gemini 30*.

Then through a Summer season of life at its fullest, as the Sun passes through the 90 degrees following Gemini 30*, from Cancer 01* to Virgo 30*. Now the Sun has journeyed half way through the Tropical Zodiac, and on Earth all has undergone 180 of the transformative phases, half of the complete cycle.

Then next comes the Autumnal Equinox, when the cycle of life begins to wane and nature starts losing its vitality a little more, as the hours of Sunlight here on Earth grow shorter, with each passing day. The Autumnal Equinox coincides with the first degree of Libra and the Sun passes through another 90 degrees and the 90 phases of the transformational cycle that comes with each of those degrees from Libra 01* to
Sagittarius 30*.

At that point, the final quarter of the cycle, the last 90 phases of the transformational cycle, begins with the Sun entering the next degree of the Tropical Zodiac, which is also the Winter Solstice, the hours of sunlight here on Earth are at their least and the hours of darkness are at their greatest. Life has died out, or gone dormant. Yet during those last 90 phases of the transformational cycle, those 90 degrees from Capricorn 01* to Pisces 30*, the length of time of sunlight on the Earth begins to increase again and then, when the Sun has passed through all 90 of those degrees and the final 90 phases of cyclic transformation have been completed here on Earth, comes the next Vernal Equinox... and the cycle repeats itself.

The phases of the Moon is another cycle of transformation, the Vedic cycle of the great ages which is known as the Yugas, is another cycle of transformation. Every seven years every atom of our physical self has been replaced in a cycle of atomic replication.* The universe is a creation of multiplex, myriad, cycles of transformations everywhere from the Macro, to the Meso, to the Micro.
What the Sabian Symbols are is the symbolism of what each phase of the "program", the "blueprint". the "computer code", of any, of all of those cycles have been developed from. It is a part of the "Divine pattern", or "Divine template", by which our Creator used to construct all the cycles that were "written into the master program" for the Universe.

As we are born of this earth we are a part of the cycle given for this earth as its program. That cycle begins anew at every Vernal Equinox and the only astrological connection it has is that the Tropical Zodiac is a means by which to keep track of when each one of those 360 phases of that cycle begin and end.

The moment your are born, where everything in the cosmos is at that moment, is when you where born from that "program". You are a part of the entire program, but who you are is a Being that arose from that which the program was at the moment you were born. Your birth chart is then that template of that moment in the program, that you were born, and arose from which out of. It is a blueprint of where, and what, the program was at that moment, where everything in the Heavens was at the moment, you were born. You are a construct of that template, that is your "Being" and as the Universe does change immediately after you are born and then changes again the next moment, as it is never static, but always changing and seamlessly as such as it is ephemeral, what this science of astrology is, is thus, the understanding of what your template of "Being" is, and how the change, at any given time you care to choose to know of, is affecting you at that moment, or had affected you in retrospect, or will affect you in the future.

*[If you ae curious about the 7 year cycle of atomic replication. From what I know about it, is what I read which I initially learned from the readings given by the late, 20th century clairvoyant, a channel for "messengers from the throne of Grace", Edgar Cayce, although I seem to recall also reading something about it in Sri Yuketeswars book, "The Holy Science". I feel that it is also important for me to elaborate on this just a bit. The firth year of each of those cycles is a most important year as it is said to be the most crucial year in that process of replication an d that is the year that one should take the best care of themselves as is possible. Abstaining from harmful food, drink, not getting adequate sleep, and not getting enough exercise,, as to have those atoms that are being replicated the in the best shape they can be as the one that will replace it is being modeled upon it. That is what aging is, or has to do with a great percentage of it. The inability of your physical self to replicate perfection, or the perfection that it should have been, In the world as it presently is, that is an impossible task for anyone to achieve but you can live a much longer and less physically troublesome life by doing what you can by following this guideline as to the best that you are able. The first cycle is from the day you are born to the day you have your 7th birthday, and the fifth year of that cycle is from the day of your 4th birthday to that of your 5th.

Now given that, just add 7 to each birthday from that of the 4th and you can easily determine when during each cycle that crucial fifth year begins.
Here's the sequence for anyone that might have trouble doing the math Each of them is that birthday to be followed for a year there after. the 4th, 11th, 18th, 25th, 32nd, 39th, 46th, 53rd, 60th, 67th, 74th, 81st, 88th, 95th ...and if you make it to your 95th birthday, May God Bless you and may you continue to live for as many more years as you wish to.

My 67th birthday is this May 6th. I will be abstaining from a number of of things on the list I made for myself and plan on keeping "regular hours" and that will mean that I might not be writing as much here for awhile as I have in the past. I like to write at night and into the wee hours as that allows me to write undisturbed and as such I am able to maintain trains of thought ...which is most beneficial when pondering some of these questions concerning the understanding of "True Astrological' understanding and practices.
...it may have something to do with the fact I was born right at sunset, too? Since I was in grade school, I've found that I've always done my best academical work at night and wrote my best term papers after midnight.... those that got me the highest grades, anyhow.
]
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-05-2020 at 01:37 PM. Reason: corrected grammar and rewrote a few sentences for clarity
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Unread 05-03-2020, 02:24 PM
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Happy birthday on the 5th, piercethevale!
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Unread 05-04-2020, 12:09 AM
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Re: Interpretation of degrees?

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Happy birthday on the 5th, piercethevale!
Thank you passiflora, although my birthday is on the 6th.

I do want to add to what I wrote above or, maybe I should say, that I wish to clarify...

As to the Sabian Symbols being written into every cycle there is to be found in the entire universe, that is as to those cycles that are cycles of transformation, who is to say that they don't only just apply to our own planet earth and who is to say that they do?

I'm certainly convinced that they apply to our planet although the symbolism given seems to me to indicate that this "program's" precepts are interpreted through particular symbols that are only relative to humankind.

Dane Rudhyar saw that it does apply to all cycles of transformation but ...as far as I know... He never gave an explanation, nor a demonstration, as to how they apply to any other cycle of transformation other than that of humanity. As I explained, and did so give a partial demonstration, that they also apply to all life on this earth, as one can truly see for themselves just by observing the seasonal changes and the effect that has on all life forms, but as to these particular images, as seen and given by the clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler, and whether they are also appropriate in regards to any other life forms on earth does appear rather sketchy.

The Creator knows precisely what each of the 360 phases is, but does humankind have a word for each one, or even just one for that matter. Dane did leave us with a "Keyword" for everyone of them, and some seem very appropriate, and may even be the perfect single word that says all that is needed. But for many of the symbols Dane found it necessary to use more than a single word in his "Keyword" summation and a few of the "Keywords" He used, He used more than once.

If all materiality, the physical universe and everything born out of it and within it, were written as a computer code...which in a sense it is, that is the Hebrew Kabbalists say that numbers are the construct of it [not the exact words I read, and I'll try to find that passage that I read and post it in a follow up, but it is sufficient for now.], then each of these 360 phases would have then a different numerical code. That's where the spoken and written languages we use fall short. I have been in correspondence with Sabian Symbol Astrologer, and author, Blain Bovee, recently and He wrote that He thinks that Rudhyar fell short in interpreting some of the symbols and I believe so as well. .. although it seems that He might be finding fault with more of them than I...but we haven't gotten to that stage in our communications with one another as yet.

Blain Bovee is a most cordial man a true gentleman, a scholar of much erudition, and whom writes some of the most beautiful prose I've ever read. In fact I am a bit envious of his skill at writing. It certainly isn't my forte nor could I ever hope to improve myself to such a level, I just wasn't born with the ability nor the potential... in other words, 'It ain't in my stars"

He has some of his writing posted online at a website named 'Medium', but He informed me that he no longer participates at that website, any comments anyone might care to leave will likely not even be seen by Blain, and definitely not answered. He does have his own website and does do personal horoscopes but I don't know what his fee is, not offhand, anyways.

Thank you all for reading, and your interest in the Sabian Symbols, and I certainly hope that your interest continues and your knowledge expands.
To better astrology, and the betterment of astrology, yours truly ptv

P.S. I was going to add to the above that as to the dilemma of the difference of Season between the Northern and Southern hemispheres here on our planet and as to whether the Sabians then should be adjusted, turned 180* for a rectification?, or continued to be used doen under as they are up yonder? I can't say, I've not a single birthchart that I've ever done an analysis for from someone born South of the equator. I suppose I could work with a natal chart of someone as such of much historical and or public exposure but even then I wouldn't have anywhere near a sufficient amount of data by which to reach a conclusion... and besides, at my age? I haven't got any where near the time left to me to even get started on it and get beyond a rudimentary stage of understanding.
That's a task for you younger and, imho, especially those that are also of the Southern Hemisphere.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-05-2020 at 01:32 PM. Reason: added the P.S.,and afterward clarification and grammar.
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