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  #1  
Unread 12-01-2019, 03:02 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Mental illness and a wedding

There is no simple say to write this.
I am asking for your honest Astrological opinion. My partner is a unique person who I love very much but some (like the medical establishment) would label him as being mentally unhealthy.

Older people would warn me on going through and marrying someone with a diagnosis like that and yet our relationship has been nothing but great, loving and very open.
Not to say it hasn't been full of emotional transformation and difficult times... but I accept that and the hard work any relationship takes- from both people. He never hid his issues from me and if anything I feel we work well together at delving into deep waters and healing ourselves.

I don't know what the truth is anymore. It hurts to even consider.

Attached is his chart and our Synastry.
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File Type: jpg Chart.jpg (55.6 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg Synastry.jpg (45.3 KB, 28 views)

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  #2  
Unread 12-01-2019, 07:08 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Is he diagnosed with some kind of personality disorder?
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  #3  
Unread 12-01-2019, 11:13 PM
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passiflora passiflora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
There is no simple say to write this.
I am asking for your honest Astrological opinion. My partner is a unique person who I love very much but some (like the medical establishment) would label him as being mentally unhealthy.

Older people would warn me on going through and marrying someone with a diagnosis like that and yet our relationship has been nothing but great, loving and very open.
Not to say it hasn't been full of emotional transformation and difficult times... but I accept that and the hard work any relationship takes- from both people. He never hid his issues from me and if anything I feel we work well together at delving into deep waters and healing ourselves.

I don't know what the truth is anymore. It hurts to even consider.

Attached is his chart and our Synastry.
Your screen name is Plutorising Lee, but he is the one with Pluto rising, correct?

What diagnosis has he been given? How has it manifested in his life?
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  #4  
Unread 12-01-2019, 11:33 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Your screen name is Plutorising Lee, but he is the one with Pluto rising, correct?
This is weird.
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  #5  
Unread 12-02-2019, 12:43 AM
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Osamenor Osamenor is online now
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
our relationship has been nothing but great, loving and very open.
Not to say it hasn't been full of emotional transformation and difficult times... but I accept that and the hard work any relationship takes- from both people. He never hid his issues from me and if anything I feel we work well together at delving into deep waters and healing ourselves.
Any relationship you have will call for that kind of deep work. We've discussed that before.

The important thing is how this relationship works for you. Not other people who might think they have something to say about it. You have the right kind of chart, and you are the right kind of person, to marry someone who has a mental illness and is aware of it, and not have it wreck the marriage. (Your alternative would be a partner who has a mental illness or some other major issue and is unaware and reactive--which would be a nightmare relationship. Your seventh house and its rulers, especially the traditional one, and the yod involved, speak to that.)

Basically, you need this kind of challenge from your partner(s). If you marry anyone, it will have to be someone who brings you this kind of deeply transformative relationship. Without this deeply transformative work, you wouldn't be satisfied and probably wouldn't be able to make yourself stay. The best you can do is choose someone who is aware of their issues and open with you. As this guy is.

But how long have you been together? Just a year ago, you were posting here heartbroken over a breakup with someone else. This relationship can't be any older than that, and it's likely newer. I would guess it's not more than a few months old, since this is the first time you've posted about this guy (or at least the first time you've posted this natal chart). If you've only been in this relationship for a few months, is that really enough time to know if you want to marry him?
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  #6  
Unread 12-02-2019, 06:15 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Your screen name is Plutorising Lee, but he is the one with Pluto rising, correct?

What diagnosis has he been given? How has it manifested in his life?
He is the Pluto rising one yes. I'll say anti-social personality, prone anger and to risk seeking.
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  #7  
Unread 12-02-2019, 06:40 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Any relationship you have will call for that kind of deep work. We've discussed that before.

The important thing is how this relationship works for you. Not other people who might think they have something to say about it. You have the right kind of chart, and you are the right kind of person, to marry someone who has a mental illness and is aware of it, and not have it wreck the marriage. (Your alternative would be a partner who has a mental illness or some other major issue and is unaware and reactive--which would be a nightmare relationship. Your seventh house and its rulers, especially the traditional one, and the yod involved, speak to that.)
Dear Osamenor,
Yes, a lot of my journey and what makes it possible to thrive in this kind of dynamic is due to some of the work you have been so helpful with before and aspects we discussed. I would not be able to thrive in this relationship without all that came before (Mars work especially). I couldn’t care less what other people think. That being said, I do care about my future and the future of my family and would not want them to hurt just because…This is what I’m like and what I chose.

Quote:
Basically, you need this kind of challenge from your partner(s). If you marry anyone, it will have to be someone who brings you this kind of deeply transformative relationship. Without this deeply transformative work, you wouldn't be satisfied and probably wouldn't be able to make yourself stay. The best you can do is choose someone who is aware of their issues and open with you. As this guy is.
I admit that is true, the transformation and challenge and battle…Not mentioning choosing someone who is “outside” social. That Mars in me rejoices at the opportunity to learn to wrestle and stand up for itself while my Venus teaches me love and femininity is the real answer and puts those flames of my own ego out. Although he is aware and open it doesn’t mean that the dark aspects can always be controlled or won’t create havoc.
Quote:
But how long have you been together? Just a year ago, you were posting here heartbroken over a breakup with someone else. This relationship can't be any older than that, and it's likely newer. I would guess it's not more than a few months old, since this is the first time you've posted about this guy (or at least the first time you've posted this natal chart). If you've only been in this relationship for a few months, is that really enough time to know if you want to marry him?
You are right it has been about a year and a very fast development. It is not strange for us to talk about marriage. The funny thing is I see this relationship as going backwards…It started with the deep dark work and conflicts and is slowly coming to the honeymoon phase that usually happens for couples in the beginning. Strange?

“You asked how this relationship works for you?” It teaches me what real love is and what my power/flaws are. It also does take a lot of energy and constant awareness. The hardest part is for both of us to decide what to do and what path to follow together. A lot is always getting in the way from outside circumstances (work, family members and their issues, lack of money).
Would it really be such a bad idea to “settle down”? I would be very grateful if you can take a look at the compatibility and perhaps notice how and why we are so bonded from early on.

Thank you so much for your time.
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  #8  
Unread 12-09-2019, 08:07 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

I'm lost. Like it has been said, yes I'm very capable of being and helping someone who is sick and loving them.
Although he loves me he is not capable of not repeating a pattern where his fear and lack of trust ( due to past relationships) destroys what we have until I prove him wrong. He tends to "wake up" to his actions only after they created damage. He tests me by picking fights and seeing if I would still stay by his side no matter what. I walk away only to find the strength to fight for us again. So far we kept rising from the ashes stronger. When we fight he says he wants me to fight for him and prove that real love is possible. That over time he would become better and change.

To make it short:He loves me but can't stop destructive patterns of relating when he gets scared. He keeps pushing me away to protect me.
The catch 22 is is that if i do put my foot down and walk away I prove him right "that it can't last". If I stay? I can't help but feel I can't fully trust myself.

Please look at the charts I posted and explain what is going on. Neither of us is capable of ending this and we keep "working" on it.
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  #9  
Unread 12-09-2019, 08:15 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

This is the composite chart:
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  #10  
Unread 12-09-2019, 10:07 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

His natal shows he will have strife in his partnerships as he has a very intense, volatile emotional nature. Scorpio rising with Pluto conj ASC = control issues. Sag Moon = can be very blunt. Taurus Mars = fixed, difficult to budge. The 2 planets oppose each other in 1H/7H. Can't hide his emotions. He feels it, he says it. Almost never process plus Moon-Mars opposition gives him a volatile emotional nature... sensitive and easily offended but temper also blow over fast. Also gives him a very passionate nature. Moon-Mars formed a t-square with MC = affects his public image.

You actually have a nice composite just that Mars in 7H t-square Saturn/MC can cause a lot of strife and disagreements on r/s goals.
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  #11  
Unread 12-09-2019, 01:57 PM
Zora Zora is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
Attached is his chart and our Synastry.

Hi,

why is only his chart in here and not your chart as well ? You have the questions and the problem in the moment and need individual personal information you can go through with from your own chart energies.

And you have venus/pluto opp. energy (to make yourself a victim, or see the other person as a victim- constellation) and this is also your attraction you put him on his AC/DC axis.

Every synastry is always as good as both individual charts are and their aspects coming along with into a synastry.

A person having 5 planets in house of setting boundaries and selfprotection needs it for a certain reason and self-purpose and had surely experienced it at least once (probably in a helpless state as a child) that life can be dangerous.

Mercury in his 2nd house rules 8th house - genetic inheritance and predisposition for health issues.


And mars as ruler of his health house is in 7th house relationship on 29 degree - like being between chairs. Relationship in general -for him can cause health issues. If he doesn't know how to manage it. Mercury rules 8th house - what is marriage and longlasting relationship as well.

Last edited by Zora; 12-09-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 12-09-2019, 09:12 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

That Mars/Saturn square in the composite chart does worry me.

Angular mars in Taurus, it’s fall, in the 7th of relationships squaring an exalted Saturn in the 4th of family and emotional foundation.

Over time, the volatility in your relationship may aggravate and chip away at your emotional foundation and your family support. It will likely be just you two against the world.

Are you truly prepared for a lifetime of that?

That triple Pisces conjunction in the 5th does show a tremendous amount of unconditional love that you shower upon each other. So it is not question about a lack of love. It is more about your quality of life.

If you choose this person as your lifetime partner, you may also be choosing a lifetime of emotional turmoil, roller coaster type events, and you may not have solid support from family or public reputation to fall back upon.

The Moon/Pluto conjunction in the 2nd squaring Jupiter in the 10th can be very difficult as well. Finances may be a lifelong struggle and it could become exhausting.

I feel like this man will test you endlessly, over and over, and it may become exhausting---to the point that you cannot go o in that way. So you may need to decide if he is making progress in his ability to trust.

If not, it might be impossible for you to make a success of this marriage.


I see the profound amount of love between you two, and would hate to see you lose that because it is rare. But as they say, sometimes love itself is not enough.
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  #13  
Unread 12-10-2019, 09:55 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
His natal shows he will have strife in his partnerships as he has a very intense, volatile emotional nature. Scorpio rising with Pluto conj ASC = control issues. Sag Moon = can be very blunt. Taurus Mars = fixed, difficult to budge. The 2 planets oppose each other in 1H/7H. Can't hide his emotions. He feels it, he says it. Almost never process plus Moon-Mars opposition gives him a volatile emotional nature... sensitive and easily offended but temper also blow over fast. Also gives him a very passionate nature. Moon-Mars formed a t-square with MC = affects his public image.

You actually have a nice composite just that Mars in 7H t-square Saturn/MC can cause a lot of strife and disagreements on r/s goals.
Yes very much as you describe. It is true that the greatest challenge has been goals and life plans clashing. I am conflicted about when and how to compromise career goals if at all. With my 7th house Mars I tend to put a lot of energy in my relationships as it is...I'm trying my best to make sure that my goals also come first.
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  #14  
Unread 12-10-2019, 10:00 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zora View Post
Hi,

why is only his chart in here and not your chart as well ? You have the questions and the problem in the moment and need individual personal information you can go through with from your own chart energies.

And you have venus/pluto opp. energy (to make yourself a victim, or see the other person as a victim- constellation) and this is also your attraction you put him on his AC/DC axis.

Every synastry is always as good as both individual charts are and their aspects coming along with into a synastry.

A person having 5 planets in house of setting boundaries and selfprotection needs it for a certain reason and self-purpose and had surely experienced it at least once (probably in a helpless state as a child) that life can be dangerous.

Mercury in his 2nd house rules 8th house - genetic inheritance and predisposition for health issues.


And mars as ruler of his health house is in 7th house relationship on 29 degree - like being between chairs. Relationship in general -for him can cause health issues. If he doesn't know how to manage it. Mercury rules 8th house - what is marriage and longlasting relationship as well.
Hi Zora and thank you for your insights.

He is a person who went through a lot no doubt about it. I have a lot of understanding and empathy towards those issues. I am not sure what can be done to manage the mental/physical better? Can you see something in his chart that could help him and bring more stability?
I don't see either of us as victims...I hate victim mentality. The Pluto Venus opposition is something i have with most people my age and I am used to that dynamic. I have to reclaim the power of Venus and her morality and bring Pluto into the light for what he really is...Beyond the fear.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 10:13 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
That Mars/Saturn square in the composite chart does worry me.

Angular mars in Taurus, it’s fall, in the 7th of relationships squaring an exalted Saturn in the 4th of family and emotional foundation.

Over time, the volatility in your relationship may aggravate and chip away at your emotional foundation and your family support. It will likely be just you two against the world.

Are you truly prepared for a lifetime of that?

That triple Pisces conjunction in the 5th does show a tremendous amount of unconditional love that you shower upon each other. So it is not question about a lack of love. It is more about your quality of life.

If you choose this person as your lifetime partner, you may also be choosing a lifetime of emotional turmoil, roller coaster type events, and you may not have solid support from family or public reputation to fall back upon.

The Moon/Pluto conjunction in the 2nd squaring Jupiter in the 10th can be very difficult as well. Finances may be a lifelong struggle and it could become exhausting.

I feel like this man will test you endlessly, over and over, and it may become exhausting---to the point that you cannot go o in that way. So you may need to decide if he is making progress in his ability to trust.

If not, it might be impossible for you to make a success of this marriage.


I see the profound amount of love between you two, and would hate to see you lose that because it is rare. But as they say, sometimes love itself is not enough.
Dear Katy,

Yes, our love is magical and the type of rare delicate thing no one wants to walk away from. I do see that my partner is aware of the issues and he wants to work on it but it would take a long time to happen...Meanwhile I have to be ok with what that takes.

I should also mention he is very into physical combat and his profession is dangerous law enforcement.

I know for centuries love and marriage were separate things for this reason.
Seems almost unfair doesn't it?

It is either love but a lot of compromise about life as you described or saying no to this rare thing.
What a sad conflict! I guess I'm a stupid romantic after all.

Children and charity is also a topic we for some reason care a lot about. Not just having them but helping other children. All that 5th house maybe?

Is there any way to work with that Mars-Saturn square? Maybe some other outlet for this issue?

The real question is if we both would grow to be better people out of this. I don't want to lose myself in the process.
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  #16  
Unread 12-10-2019, 06:29 PM
Zora Zora is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
I am not sure what can be done to manage the mental/physical better? Can you see something in his chart that could help him and bring more stability?
This is only possible if he is willing to ask for help- then he is open for help. Not a second before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
I don't see either of us as victims...I hate victim mentality. The Pluto Venus opposition is something i have with most people my age and I am used to that dynamic. I have to reclaim the power of Venus and her morality and bring Pluto into the light for what he really is...Beyond the fear.
Venus/pluto is first of all mainly a very intense energy, a deep passionate, truthful energy even beyond death, a persisting energy - but always kinda endangered to get a victim of own rituals they intend to repeat for a long time- running in a circle of repeating uncontrollable behaviour.

Such a strong and intense energy needs to flow and to be used - as otherwise it gets inside and can get self-destructive. And venus pluto mostly meets mars pluto as counterpart - as both are of same stuff and able to stand this intense energy.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 11:39 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
Dear Katy,

Yes, our love is magical and the type of rare delicate thing no one wants to walk away from. I do see that my partner is aware of the issues and he wants to work on it but it would take a long time to happen...Meanwhile I have to be ok with what that takes.

I should also mention he is very into physical combat and his profession is dangerous law enforcement.

I know for centuries love and marriage were separate things for this reason.
Seems almost unfair doesn't it?

It is either love but a lot of compromise about life as you described or saying no to this rare thing.
What a sad conflict! I guess I'm a stupid romantic after all.

Children and charity is also a topic we for some reason care a lot about. Not just having them but helping other children. All that 5th house maybe?

Is there any way to work with that Mars-Saturn square? Maybe some other outlet for this issue?

The real question is if we both would grow to be better people out of this. I don't want to lose myself in the process.
As to the bolded portion above, that is the real question.

Have you grown to be a 'better' person out of this so far? How so?

With the Mars/Saturn square you might learn how to stand up for yourself, even under severe or aggressive circumstances. Even under adversity you would learn to stick up for yourself, if things were 'fair.'

Are you getting stronger and better from this relationship?
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  #18  
Unread 12-11-2019, 06:02 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
As to the bolded portion above, that is the real question.

Have you grown to be a 'better' person out of this so far? How so?

With the Mars/Saturn square you might learn how to stand up for yourself, even under severe or aggressive circumstances. Even under adversity you would learn to stick up for yourself, if things were 'fair.'

Are you getting stronger and better from this relationship?
I have. I'm learning to stand up for myself and be more grounded and confident. On the other hand, I'm sure there is no objective way to say if this is true.

Here is what I don't understand: the composite chart shows what the couple is experiencing together right?
In that case if I'm experiencing the strife from his nature (and learning to stand up for myself) what is hardship/lessons is he receiving from me?
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Unread 12-12-2019, 12:16 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

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Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
I have. I'm learning to stand up for myself and be more grounded and confident. On the other hand, I'm sure there is no objective way to say if this is true.

Here is what I don't understand: the composite chart shows what the couple is experiencing together right?
In that case if I'm experiencing the strife from his nature (and learning to stand up for myself) what is hardship/lessons is he receiving from me?
He is experiencing the same strife. You trigger his insecurities and uncertainty. He gets angry and questions your loyalty and trustworthiness.

.... you trigger his anger and doubt.

He triggers your shame, guilt and anger as well.

He needs to learn to trust and accept that you are trustworthy. But you both need to see progress in each other. You both should be able to go through much longer periods of no stress, no fighting, no strife, and enjoy each other's company.

If that is not happening, then it might be a toxic relationship that is beyond repair?

Last edited by katydid; 12-12-2019 at 12:19 AM.
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Unread 12-13-2019, 06:07 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Hi PlutorisingLee,

It's strange but some of what you said resonated with me.

"The funny thing is I see this relationship as going backwards…It started with the deep dark work and conflicts and is slowly coming to the honeymoon phase that usually happens for couples in the beginning. Strange?"

My guy and I also started off with a lot of push/pull but unknowingly and strangely, our feelings grew stronger. It took us awhile and I almost gave up but we managed to come through with greater understanding of each other and I must say, HONESTY was a great agent for us. We saw the good and bad in each other and also realised how much the other person mean to us. Now I can say that I've never been so comfortable and "myself" with any partner before.

When the honeymoon period came, it was SWEET because we worked hard for it. It is rare but not strange for a r/s to progress this way. In fact, I find it strengthening because you won't take each other for granted.

"He tests me by picking fights and seeing if I would still stay by his side no matter what. I walk away only to find the strength to fight for us again. So far we kept rising from the ashes stronger."

My guy did that too although his motivation isn't to test if I'll stay by his side, but rather, how much I love him. It all stems from his own insecurities (and jealousy tendency) so this is something he has to work within himself. One day I snapped and from there on, he refrained from such behaviour. I think he realised he was on the verge of really losing me. Once in awhile he still gets insecure but it's much controlled. So your guy needs to understand that trust-building is the answer, not keep testing and pushing you away.

Btw, we also have Taurus Mars in 3H square Leo Saturn in 5H. This tension aspect can make you feel out of sync at times but it can be managed with a strong communicative bond which you have with your Mercury conjunct Sun/Venus sextile Mars/Uranus. Use these positive aspects wisely and don't force your will down each other's throats. Also, I noticed with cMars square Saturn, the man in the r/s can often be overly cautious about everything and need to be coaxed or given time to come around.

We also have a stellium in 5H (in Cancer) with a Scorpio Moon (9H) and Pisces rising so there're several similarities between our charts. I find our r/s extremely emotional, intuitive and intimate and it brings out lotsa feelings in us - love, anger, intensely missing each other, resentment etc. How did yours feel?
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Unread 12-13-2019, 05:36 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
He is experiencing the same strife. You trigger his insecurities and uncertainty. He gets angry and questions your loyalty and trustworthiness.

.... you trigger his anger and doubt.

He triggers your shame, guilt and anger as well.

He needs to learn to trust and accept that you are trustworthy. But you both need to see progress in each other. You both should be able to go through much longer periods of no stress, no fighting, no strife, and enjoy each other's company.

If that is not happening, then it might be a toxic relationship that is beyond repair?
I think the real issue is making our lifestyle/goals match..I don't see the relationship as toxic just very difficult. He is willing to be honest and work on the problems. What you said about lifestyle hardships and not being accepted by society is the greatest difficulty.
I am just wondering wether going the traditional route (cohabitation and marriage) would bring us a certain stability. We often fear losing each other or being separated...That can create fear and trust issues that are really consuming and appear "huge".
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  #22  
Unread 12-13-2019, 05:58 PM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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[QUOTE=ellie04;1014916]Hi PlutorisingLee,

It's strange but some of what you said resonated with me.

[Quote]My guy and I also started off with a lot of push/pull but unknowingly and strangely, our feelings grew stronger. It took us awhile and I almost gave up but we managed to come through with greater understanding of each other and I must say, HONESTY was a great agent for us. We saw the good and bad in each other and also realised how much the other person mean to us. Now I can say that I've never been so comfortable and "myself" with any partner before. [\Quote]
That is incredible! I don't know if by being "yourself" you mean also feeling you can be the shadow of yourself or vulnerable and "weak"?

I can definitely relate to that...We have seen the worst of each other and actually that is a comfort. No Neptunian fog like in some relationships. We also gave up msny times but there is a deep intemacy. It is almost frightening like a blood bond, like someone touching your inner child or internal orgens with bare hands, like being seen with no defence, like an out of body experience...It is very mystical.

[quote]When the honeymoon period came, it was SWEET because we worked hard for it. It is rare but not strange for a r/s to progress this way. In fact, I find it strengthening because you won't take each other for granted.[\quote]
That is beautiful. Are you different as people?
You can see in my partners chart he is a very free spirited Saggiterius and will always be a "lone wolf". I used to think the whole traditional framework can't be for us or for him...Yet we seem to want it because we don't want to be separate. Although, we are very opposite in our body rythems, food, sleep... Don't know if that too is Mars/Saturn?

[quote]My guy did that too although his motivation isn't to test if I'll stay by his side, but rather, how much I love him. It all stems from his own insecurities (and jealousy tendency) so this is something he has to work within himself. One day I snapped and from there on, he refrained from such behaviour. I think he realised he was on the verge of really losing me. Once in awhile he still gets insecure but it's much controlled. So your guy needs to understand that trust-building is the answer, not keep testing and pushing you away.[\quote]
Yes, I think it is the same reason here. I just find it hard to sign up for marriage if he can just walk away due to this one day. I choose to trust.
I can live with no money and with no support but I need to know he would still be there. Can you tell from his chart what kind of family person he would be?

[quote]Btw, we also have Taurus Mars in 3H square Leo Saturn in 5H. This tension aspect can make you feel out of sync at times but it can be managed with a strong communicative bond which you have with your Mercury conjunct Sun/Venus sextile Mars/Uranus. Use these positive aspects wisely and don't force your will down each other's throats. Also, I noticed with cMars square Saturn, the man in the r/s can often be overly cautious about everything and need to be coaxed or given time to come around.[\quote]
Oh yes! Talking, talking and talking. Really interested in the last point you bring...I often feel our gender roles are swapped?
On the surface we are both very feminine Vs masculine but in leading the way he wants me to choose or fight and win him and choose him. It is something I noticed in the dynamic and seems to go deep.
I wonder why?

Quote:
We also have a stellium in 5H (in Cancer) with a Scorpio Moon (9H) and Pisces rising so there're several similarities between our charts. I find our r/s extremely emotional, intuitive and intimate and it brings out lotsa feelings in us - love, anger, intensely missing each other, resentment etc. How did yours feel?
Yes it is extremely emotional and watery and just...I feel tearful over love here and I'm not the type. All feeling is very extreme and we can overdo it. Also we tend to trigger a lot of old trauma in each other and memories we have supressed.

Does your guy have some water in him?
It's funny how with all this fire/earth we are in such a Piscean sphere.
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  #23  
Unread 12-13-2019, 06:23 PM
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

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Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
I think the real issue is making our lifestyle/goals match..
How do your lifestyles and goals not match? (Not asking for specific details, because that could be identifying, but a general sense.) It's one thing if your lifestyles require different kinds of housing arrangements, or different setups in the home (for example, one of you plays loud music well into the night and the other works early shifts and needs to sleep). It's another if you simply have different professional goals (as long as those different professional goals don't require living in different places). Or if one of you wants kids and the other doesn't (from what you said up thread, it sounds like you both do--that's just an example). Or one of you can't live without pets and the other is allergic to them. Things like that.

The important compatibility points for a couple are the ones that involve their living arrangement and anything they would do together. Outside of that, it's fine to have different personal desires and goals, as long as you can come together on the crucial parts.

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Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
I am just wondering wether going the traditional route (cohabitation and marriage) would bring us a certain stability. We often fear losing each other or being separated...That can create fear and trust issues that are really consuming and appear "huge".
Security issues makes me think Moon. Moon/Pluto is big in this relationship. In the composite chart, Moon is conjunct Pluto. In your natal charts, both of your Moons are in what might be considered a wide orb or just out of orb (and out of sign, too, in his case) conjunction to Pluto. Your shared Pluto placement is essentially the midpoint of your Moon and his.

So yes, I would think any Moon-related issues are going to be big in this relationship. Potentially transformative, and potentially divisive. And with the properties of both Moon and Pluto being what they are (plumbing the depths of the unconscious), you're mutually stirring up whatever is deeply unconscious for both of you.

Another very strong signature on your relationship is Uranus-Venus. Both of you have Uranus involved with your own Venuses--a tight trine in your case, sharing a stellium in his--and your composite chart has a Uranus-Venus sextile. Relationships with a Uranus-Venus signature have a reputation, among relationship astrologers, for starting quickly, with great infatuation, and ending just as suddenly, usually after no more than a year or two. They can be longer lived in some cases, particularly if Saturn also has a strong involvement, but this happens often enough with Uranus-Venus that it's called the divorce aspect.

Getting married or cohabitating won't change the undercurrents of the relationship. When couples gain more stability from a legally recognized relationship, it's because the basic stability was already there, and formalizing it just made it more so.

Knowing all this, I would suggest that you wait at least another year before tying the knot or signing a lease (although if you want to try a less formal kind of live together arrangement, one that will leave both of you an out if things suddenly change, that could be an option.) If you're still together a year from now and still want to be, then you could consider a more permanent arrangement.

Uranus also brings a need for plenty of space. Whether the two of you live together or not, it's vital that you both have your space. If you ever do live together, be sure you build lots of personal space for each of you into the arrangement, both physically and emotionally.
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Last edited by Osamenor; 12-13-2019 at 06:46 PM. Reason: typos and something to add
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Unread 12-15-2019, 07:27 AM
PlutorisingLee PlutorisingLee is offline
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[QUOTE=Osamenor;1015060]How do your lifestyles and goals not match? (Not asking for specific details, because that could be identifying, but a general sense.) It's one thing if your lifestyles require different kinds of housing arrangements, or different setups in the home (for example, one of you plays loud music well into the night and the other works early shifts and needs to sleep). It's another if you simply have different professional goals (as long as those different professional goals don't require living in different places). Or if one of you wants kids and the other doesn't (from what you said up thread, it sounds like you both do--that's just an example). Or one of you can't live without pets and the other is allergic to them. Things like that.[\quote]

We are very different in all that you listed but that fades away and is not a big issue. We enjoy living together (on short term) and spending every moment together.
The issue is as I see it is that his philosophy is that we should continue living and making goals for ourselves (each as an individual). Although this sounds like a beautiful ideal and I agree with it...In practice that means often being divided about living far apart, spending long time away in long distance and so on...At the same time he can't stand us not actually being together and we do suffer for it.
Knowing this I find it hard to plan my life and goals and work because every such success is a failure for the relationship.
The only possible option is that one of us will compremise thier aspirations so we can be together.

Currently, I am more than willing to sacrifice but don't think it is right for me to do so...If at least in theory he isn't as willing to try and build his life around me as well. Especially as he is making new choices about work and living while I'm already responsible for long term plans that started years ago.

I truly believe this is due to his strong held beliefs and individualism and not his lack of care for me. He does a lot for me and for us...He just doesn't believe in happiness and needs my support. It is a slow process. On top of that he would need many years before we can afford to have a family.
Am I wrong? Am I being a romantic? I am very willing to sacrifice a lot.


Quote:
Security issues makes me think Moon. Moon/Pluto is big in this relationship. In the composite chart, Moon is conjunct Pluto. In your natal charts, both of your Moons are in what might be considered a wide orb or just out of orb (and out of sign, too, in his case) conjunction to Pluto. Your shared Pluto placement is essentially the midpoint of your Moon and his.

So yes, I would think any Moon-related issues are going to be big in this relationship. Potentially transformative, and potentially divisive. And with the properties of both Moon and Pluto being what they are (plumbing the depths of the unconscious), you're mutually stirring up whatever is deeply unconscious for both of you.
Yes. Very deep work and a lot of flashbacks to trauma. A lot of healing too. It is very binding as well.

Quote:
Another very strong signature on your relationship is Uranus-Venus. Both of you have Uranus involved with your own Venuses--a tight trine in your case, sharing a stellium in his--and your composite chart has a Uranus-Venus sextile. Relationships with a Uranus-Venus signature have a reputation, among relationship astrologers, for starting quickly, with great infatuation, and ending just as suddenly, usually after no more than a year or two. They can be longer lived in some cases, particularly if Saturn also has a strong involvement, but this happens often enough with Uranus-Venus that it's called the divorce aspect.

Getting married or cohabitating won't change the undercurrents of the relationship. When couples gain more stability from a legally recognized relationship, it's because the basic stability was already there, and formalizing it just made it more so.

Knowing all this, I would suggest that you wait at least another year before tying the knot or signing a lease (although if you want to try a less formal kind of live together arrangement, one that will leave both of you an out if things suddenly change, that could be an option.) If you're still together a year from now and still want to be, then you could consider a more permanent arrangement.

Uranus also brings a need for plenty of space. Whether the two of you live together or not, it's vital that you both have your space. If you ever do live together, be sure you build lots of personal space for each of you into the arrangement, both physically and emotionally.
Oh! Interesting. I thought only hard Uranus aspects had this effect. Would spending time apart and separating over and over apply? In a way that kind of allows us to stay together and perhaps "plays" Uranus.
I also see a huge energy issue. Just being in same room is like living in high speed motion and so time apart is needed.

And isn't Neptune right there with Uranus?

So basically I'm unsure how much of my plans and gaols should be balanced and conpremised here.
It does look like every time I was willing to make choices from the point of unconditional love...The trust grew.
Am I a fool?

Last edited by PlutorisingLee; 12-15-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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  #25  
Unread 12-15-2019, 04:47 PM
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Re: Mental illness and a wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
We are very different in all that you listed but that fades away and is not a big issue. We enjoy living together (on short term) and spending every moment together.
The issue is as I see it is that his philosophy is that we should continue living and making goals for ourselves (each as an individual). Although this sounds like a beautiful ideal and I agree with it...In practice that means often being divided about living far apart, spending long time away in long distance and so on...At the same time he can't stand us not actually being together and we do suffer for it.
Knowing this I find it hard to plan my life and goals and work because every such success is a failure for the relationship.
The only possible option is that one of us will compremise thier aspirations so we can be together.
And compromising your aspirations will make you miserable. I've been in a relationship that worked similarly, and yes, when I did compromise, it made me miserable! We lasted ten years, though. There was no Uranus/Venus aspect in our composite or either of our natal charts, and none in our synastry, but Uranus had a strong stamp on both our charts... as it does on yours and your love's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
Currently, I am more than willing to sacrifice but don't think it is right for me to do so...If at least in theory he isn't as willing to try and build his life around me as well. Especially as he is making new choices about work and living while I'm already responsible for long term plans that started years ago.
You are absolutely right. If anything, he should be the one to change course, since he's already changing course. You have responsibilities you're locked into. He's choosing new ones.

But with that strong Uranus signature you both have, and affecting relationships for both of you--even if you were not in a relationship with each other, you both still have a Uranus-Venus connection that shades all of your relationships--he can't and shouldn't wrap all of his choices around you. He needs to feel he has his space and individuality, independently of you. And you need the same for yourself, independently of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
Oh! Interesting. I thought only hard Uranus aspects had this effect. Would spending time apart and separating over and over apply? In a way that kind of allows us to stay together and perhaps "plays" Uranus.
Yes, playing Uranus is the only way a Uranus-Venus relationship can last. Or any strongly Uranian relationship.

When the Uranus aspects are soft ones, it's likely to be easier to play Uranus than it is with hard aspects. It comes more naturally and easily. But you still have that Uranian energy, and it still will break the relationship if you don't allow space for it.

Even if you do allow space for Uranus, the relationship might end at some point just because it's run its course. That might be far in the future, or it might not. All relationships end eventually. If you stay together til one of you dies, that's the end point. If you don't, then you've simply completed the relationship before completing your lives. Uranus-Venus increases the chances of the relationship being completed sooner because of the high speed motion involved (the energy issue you described) and because, as you know from experience, creating the right kind of space for it in a couple relationship is very challenging. Lots of couples don't even try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
And isn't Neptune right there with Uranus?
Yes. You both belong to the Neptune/Uranus conjunction cohort. That blends them seamlessly, both in your relationship with each other and your individual lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutorisingLee View Post
It does look like every time I was willing to make choices from the point of unconditional love...The trust grew.
Am I a fool?
If you're a fool, you're the tarot fool, on the fool's journey. That's what this relationship is. A step into the unknown, lead where it may, end when it may.
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Not receiving an answer to your natal chart-based question? You are welcome to submit it to the Ask the Astrologer feature on my blog, provided that it follows the feature's ground rules.
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