Mental illness and a wedding

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Hi PlutorisingLee,

It's strange but some of what you said resonated with me.

My guy and I also started off with a lot of push/pull but unknowingly and strangely, our feelings grew stronger. It took us awhile and I almost gave up but we managed to come through with greater understanding of each other and I must say, HONESTY was a great agent for us. We saw the good and bad in each other and also realised how much the other person mean to us. Now I can say that I've never been so comfortable and "myself" with any partner before. [\Quote]
That is incredible! I don't know if by being "yourself" you mean also feeling you can be the shadow of yourself or vulnerable and "weak"?

I can definitely relate to that...We have seen the worst of each other and actually that is a comfort. No Neptunian fog like in some relationships. We also gave up msny times but there is a deep intemacy. It is almost frightening like a blood bond, like someone touching your inner child or internal orgens with bare hands, like being seen with no defence, like an out of body experience...It is very mystical.

When the honeymoon period came, it was SWEET because we worked hard for it. It is rare but not strange for a r/s to progress this way. In fact, I find it strengthening because you won't take each other for granted.[\quote]
That is beautiful. Are you different as people?
You can see in my partners chart he is a very free spirited Saggiterius and will always be a "lone wolf". I used to think the whole traditional framework can't be for us or for him...Yet we seem to want it because we don't want to be separate. Although, we are very opposite in our body rythems, food, sleep... Don't know if that too is Mars/Saturn?

My guy did that too although his motivation isn't to test if I'll stay by his side, but rather, how much I love him. It all stems from his own insecurities (and jealousy tendency) so this is something he has to work within himself. One day I snapped and from there on, he refrained from such behaviour. I think he realised he was on the verge of really losing me. Once in awhile he still gets insecure but it's much controlled. So your guy needs to understand that trust-building is the answer, not keep testing and pushing you away.[\quote]
Yes, I think it is the same reason here. I just find it hard to sign up for marriage if he can just walk away due to this one day. I choose to trust.
I can live with no money and with no support but I need to know he would still be there. Can you tell from his chart what kind of family person he would be?

Btw, we also have Taurus Mars in 3H square Leo Saturn in 5H. This tension aspect can make you feel out of sync at times but it can be managed with a strong communicative bond which you have with your Mercury conjunct Sun/Venus sextile Mars/Uranus. Use these positive aspects wisely and don't force your will down each other's throats. Also, I noticed with cMars square Saturn, the man in the r/s can often be overly cautious about everything and need to be coaxed or given time to come around.[\quote]
Oh yes! Talking, talking and talking. Really interested in the last point you bring...I often feel our gender roles are swapped?
On the surface we are both very feminine Vs masculine but in leading the way he wants me to choose or fight and win him and choose him. It is something I noticed in the dynamic and seems to go deep.
I wonder why?

We also have a stellium in 5H (in Cancer) with a Scorpio Moon (9H) and Pisces rising so there're several similarities between our charts. I find our r/s extremely emotional, intuitive and intimate and it brings out lotsa feelings in us - love, anger, intensely missing each other, resentment etc. How did yours feel?
Yes it is extremely emotional and watery and just...I feel tearful over love here and I'm not the type. All feeling is very extreme and we can overdo it. Also we tend to trigger a lot of old trauma in each other and memories we have supressed.

Does your guy have some water in him?
It's funny how with all this fire/earth we are in such a Piscean sphere.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I think the real issue is making our lifestyle/goals match..
How do your lifestyles and goals not match? (Not asking for specific details, because that could be identifying, but a general sense.) It's one thing if your lifestyles require different kinds of housing arrangements, or different setups in the home (for example, one of you plays loud music well into the night and the other works early shifts and needs to sleep). It's another if you simply have different professional goals (as long as those different professional goals don't require living in different places). Or if one of you wants kids and the other doesn't (from what you said up thread, it sounds like you both do--that's just an example). Or one of you can't live without pets and the other is allergic to them. Things like that.

The important compatibility points for a couple are the ones that involve their living arrangement and anything they would do together. Outside of that, it's fine to have different personal desires and goals, as long as you can come together on the crucial parts.

I am just wondering wether going the traditional route (cohabitation and marriage) would bring us a certain stability. We often fear losing each other or being separated...That can create fear and trust issues that are really consuming and appear "huge".
Security issues makes me think Moon. Moon/Pluto is big in this relationship. In the composite chart, Moon is conjunct Pluto. In your natal charts, both of your Moons are in what might be considered a wide orb or just out of orb (and out of sign, too, in his case) conjunction to Pluto. Your shared Pluto placement is essentially the midpoint of your Moon and his.

So yes, I would think any Moon-related issues are going to be big in this relationship. Potentially transformative, and potentially divisive. And with the properties of both Moon and Pluto being what they are (plumbing the depths of the unconscious), you're mutually stirring up whatever is deeply unconscious for both of you.

Another very strong signature on your relationship is Uranus-Venus. Both of you have Uranus involved with your own Venuses--a tight trine in your case, sharing a stellium in his--and your composite chart has a Uranus-Venus sextile. Relationships with a Uranus-Venus signature have a reputation, among relationship astrologers, for starting quickly, with great infatuation, and ending just as suddenly, usually after no more than a year or two. They can be longer lived in some cases, particularly if Saturn also has a strong involvement, but this happens often enough with Uranus-Venus that it's called the divorce aspect.

Getting married or cohabitating won't change the undercurrents of the relationship. When couples gain more stability from a legally recognized relationship, it's because the basic stability was already there, and formalizing it just made it more so.

Knowing all this, I would suggest that you wait at least another year before tying the knot or signing a lease (although if you want to try a less formal kind of live together arrangement, one that will leave both of you an out if things suddenly change, that could be an option.) If you're still together a year from now and still want to be, then you could consider a more permanent arrangement.

Uranus also brings a need for plenty of space. Whether the two of you live together or not, it's vital that you both have your space. If you ever do live together, be sure you build lots of personal space for each of you into the arrangement, both physically and emotionally.
 
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PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
How do your lifestyles and goals not match? (Not asking for specific details, because that could be identifying, but a general sense.) It's one thing if your lifestyles require different kinds of housing arrangements, or different setups in the home (for example, one of you plays loud music well into the night and the other works early shifts and needs to sleep). It's another if you simply have different professional goals (as long as those different professional goals don't require living in different places). Or if one of you wants kids and the other doesn't (from what you said up thread, it sounds like you both do--that's just an example). Or one of you can't live without pets and the other is allergic to them. Things like that.[\quote]

We are very different in all that you listed but that fades away and is not a big issue. We enjoy living together (on short term) and spending every moment together.
The issue is as I see it is that his philosophy is that we should continue living and making goals for ourselves (each as an individual). Although this sounds like a beautiful ideal and I agree with it...In practice that means often being divided about living far apart, spending long time away in long distance and so on...At the same time he can't stand us not actually being together and we do suffer for it.
Knowing this I find it hard to plan my life and goals and work because every such success is a failure for the relationship.
The only possible option is that one of us will compremise thier aspirations so we can be together.

Currently, I am more than willing to sacrifice but don't think it is right for me to do so...If at least in theory he isn't as willing to try and build his life around me as well. Especially as he is making new choices about work and living while I'm already responsible for long term plans that started years ago.

I truly believe this is due to his strong held beliefs and individualism and not his lack of care for me. He does a lot for me and for us...He just doesn't believe in happiness and needs my support. It is a slow process. On top of that he would need many years before we can afford to have a family.
Am I wrong? Am I being a romantic? I am very willing to sacrifice a lot.


Security issues makes me think Moon. Moon/Pluto is big in this relationship. In the composite chart, Moon is conjunct Pluto. In your natal charts, both of your Moons are in what might be considered a wide orb or just out of orb (and out of sign, too, in his case) conjunction to Pluto. Your shared Pluto placement is essentially the midpoint of your Moon and his.

So yes, I would think any Moon-related issues are going to be big in this relationship. Potentially transformative, and potentially divisive. And with the properties of both Moon and Pluto being what they are (plumbing the depths of the unconscious), you're mutually stirring up whatever is deeply unconscious for both of you.
Yes. Very deep work and a lot of flashbacks to trauma. A lot of healing too. It is very binding as well.

Another very strong signature on your relationship is Uranus-Venus. Both of you have Uranus involved with your own Venuses--a tight trine in your case, sharing a stellium in his--and your composite chart has a Uranus-Venus sextile. Relationships with a Uranus-Venus signature have a reputation, among relationship astrologers, for starting quickly, with great infatuation, and ending just as suddenly, usually after no more than a year or two. They can be longer lived in some cases, particularly if Saturn also has a strong involvement, but this happens often enough with Uranus-Venus that it's called the divorce aspect.

Getting married or cohabitating won't change the undercurrents of the relationship. When couples gain more stability from a legally recognized relationship, it's because the basic stability was already there, and formalizing it just made it more so.

Knowing all this, I would suggest that you wait at least another year before tying the knot or signing a lease (although if you want to try a less formal kind of live together arrangement, one that will leave both of you an out if things suddenly change, that could be an option.) If you're still together a year from now and still want to be, then you could consider a more permanent arrangement.

Uranus also brings a need for plenty of space. Whether the two of you live together or not, it's vital that you both have your space. If you ever do live together, be sure you build lots of personal space for each of you into the arrangement, both physically and emotionally.

Oh! Interesting. I thought only hard Uranus aspects had this effect. Would spending time apart and separating over and over apply? In a way that kind of allows us to stay together and perhaps "plays" Uranus.
I also see a huge energy issue. Just being in same room is like living in high speed motion and so time apart is needed.

And isn't Neptune right there with Uranus? :)

So basically I'm unsure how much of my plans and gaols should be balanced and conpremised here.
It does look like every time I was willing to make choices from the point of unconditional love...The trust grew.
Am I a fool?
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
We are very different in all that you listed but that fades away and is not a big issue. We enjoy living together (on short term) and spending every moment together.
The issue is as I see it is that his philosophy is that we should continue living and making goals for ourselves (each as an individual). Although this sounds like a beautiful ideal and I agree with it...In practice that means often being divided about living far apart, spending long time away in long distance and so on...At the same time he can't stand us not actually being together and we do suffer for it.
Knowing this I find it hard to plan my life and goals and work because every such success is a failure for the relationship.
The only possible option is that one of us will compremise thier aspirations so we can be together.
And compromising your aspirations will make you miserable. I've been in a relationship that worked similarly, and yes, when I did compromise, it made me miserable! We lasted ten years, though. There was no Uranus/Venus aspect in our composite or either of our natal charts, and none in our synastry, but Uranus had a strong stamp on both our charts... as it does on yours and your love's.

Currently, I am more than willing to sacrifice but don't think it is right for me to do so...If at least in theory he isn't as willing to try and build his life around me as well. Especially as he is making new choices about work and living while I'm already responsible for long term plans that started years ago.
You are absolutely right. If anything, he should be the one to change course, since he's already changing course. You have responsibilities you're locked into. He's choosing new ones.

But with that strong Uranus signature you both have, and affecting relationships for both of you--even if you were not in a relationship with each other, you both still have a Uranus-Venus connection that shades all of your relationships--he can't and shouldn't wrap all of his choices around you. He needs to feel he has his space and individuality, independently of you. And you need the same for yourself, independently of him.

Oh! Interesting. I thought only hard Uranus aspects had this effect. Would spending time apart and separating over and over apply? In a way that kind of allows us to stay together and perhaps "plays" Uranus.
Yes, playing Uranus is the only way a Uranus-Venus relationship can last. Or any strongly Uranian relationship.

When the Uranus aspects are soft ones, it's likely to be easier to play Uranus than it is with hard aspects. It comes more naturally and easily. But you still have that Uranian energy, and it still will break the relationship if you don't allow space for it.

Even if you do allow space for Uranus, the relationship might end at some point just because it's run its course. That might be far in the future, or it might not. All relationships end eventually. If you stay together til one of you dies, that's the end point. If you don't, then you've simply completed the relationship before completing your lives. Uranus-Venus increases the chances of the relationship being completed sooner because of the high speed motion involved (the energy issue you described) and because, as you know from experience, creating the right kind of space for it in a couple relationship is very challenging. Lots of couples don't even try.

And isn't Neptune right there with Uranus? :)
Yes. You both belong to the Neptune/Uranus conjunction cohort. That blends them seamlessly, both in your relationship with each other and your individual lives.

It does look like every time I was willing to make choices from the point of unconditional love...The trust grew.
Am I a fool?
If you're a fool, you're the tarot fool, on the fool's journey. That's what this relationship is. A step into the unknown, lead where it may, end when it may.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
And compromising your aspirations will make you miserable. I've been in a relationship that worked similarly, and yes, when I did compromise, it made me miserable! We lasted ten years, though. There was no Uranus/Venus aspect in our composite or either of our natal charts, and none in our synastry, but Uranus had a strong stamp on both our charts... as it does on yours and your love's.
You are absolutely right. If anything, he should be the one to change course, since he's already changing course. You have responsibilities you're locked into. He's choosing new ones.

I always think that Uranus is that one thing that allows me to be in otherwise very unearthy connections to people. I actually really hope to develop that aspect more and I feel this relationship allows me to learn unconditional love and to let go of my need for "stability".
I very much relate to the vision of love and relationship as a lesson and being worthy as such without any expectation...
And yet I find that at some point when choices are made a lofty idealistic view isn't always enough- hence reaching out to Astrology.
I can afford to "waste" ten years on love but it can't me moral to do that to my future family if I know this is such a relationship. This is the dilemma.

But like you say...You never know and you have to trust.

But with that strong Uranus signature you both have, and affecting relationships for both of you--even if you were not in a relationship with each other, you both still have a Uranus-Venus connection that shades all of your relationships--he can't and shouldn't wrap all of his choices around you. He needs to feel he has his space and individuality, independently of you. And you need the same for yourself, independently of him.Yes, playing Uranus is the only way a Uranus-Venus relationship can last. Or any strongly Uranian relationship.
I can see that, yes. Although if we think of Uranus as co-ruler of Capricorn and a force that wants to create a (new) structure+ all that Capricorn in his chart....What do we get? Because funnily enough, relatively speaking it is not me that is the traditional one here! I always found Aquarius energy to e very unbending.

When the Uranus aspects are soft ones, it's likely to be easier to play Uranus than it is with hard aspects. It comes more naturally and easily. But you still have that Uranian energy, and it still will break the relationship if you don't allow space for it.

Even if you do allow space for Uranus, the relationship might end at some point just because it's run its course. That might be far in the future, or it might not. All relationships end eventually. If you stay together til one of you dies, that's the end point. If you don't, then you've simply completed the relationship before completing your lives. Uranus-Venus increases the chances of the relationship being completed sooner because of the high speed motion involved (the energy issue you described) and because, as you know from experience, creating the right kind of space for it in a couple relationship is very challenging. Lots of couples don't even try.

Oh it is! Many don't try...But as you know I don't connect to a challenge free relationship. Where in the charts would you look to see ways to bring more harmony and balance into this chaotic energy?
I don't mean looking for a way "out" rather where to channel this energy instead. For example, I found we get along well when we are moving and traveling.
I remembered that our first meeting was during a Saturn-Uranus conjunction. The whole topic of tradition vs new ways, creating structure, family, institutions...
Yes. You both belong to the Neptune/Uranus conjunction cohort. That blends them seamlessly, both in your relationship with each other and your individual lives.
Really interesting...And indeed a connection to this generation that is magnified.
If you're a fool, you're the tarot fool, on the fool's journey. That's what this relationship is. A step into the unknown, lead where it may, end when it may.

Thank you.
 

Kite

Well-known member
Not sure I would characterize his problem as Mental Illness - more like Mental Absence ---He has no Air in his chart and neither do you except for your Saturn in Aquarius. I guess its up to you to instill objectivity into the relationship and both of your lives. That may be the purpose of getting together shown by your airy and partnery Libra ascendant. Detachment is a key theme for you to be able to put all the other stuff into perspective. Sounds interesting though.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Where in the charts would you look to see ways to bring more harmony and balance into this chaotic energy?
I don't mean looking for a way "out" rather where to channel this energy instead. For example, I found we get along well when we are moving and traveling.

Think of everything Uranus can mean. Then, go towards the positive versions.

Change. Changing structures. Non-traditional. Common causes.

Perhaps you two would do best to deliberately plan on not having a conventional relationship, if you weren't already doing so. Your idea that getting married or at least cohabitating would make you a more stable couple is a conventional assumption. It won't make the two of you a conventional couple. It will just make you miserable trying.

That doesn't necessarily mean you can't marry or cohabitate, but if you do, you have to do it on your terms. With plenty of personal space, too.

You might also find it a good relationship if you're working on a common cause together. Is there any cause that you both believe in, and are willing to work for?
 
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PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Not sure I would characterize his problem as Mental Illness - more like Mental Absence ---He has no Air in his chart and neither do you except for your Saturn in Aquarius. I guess its up to you to instill objectivity into the relationship and both of your lives. That may be the purpose of getting together shown by your airy and partnery Libra ascendant. Detachment is a key theme for you to be able to put all the other stuff into perspective. Sounds interesting though.

So cool that you noticed! Haven't thought of it big picture like that.
Although his chart has Mercury conjunct Uranus which I think of as very "airy".
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Think of everything Uranus can mean. Then, go towards the positive versions.

Change. Changing structures. Non-traditional. Common causes.

Perhaps you two would do best to deliberately plan on not having a conventional relationship, if you weren't already doing so. Your idea that getting married or at least cohabitating would make you a more stable couple is a conventional assumption. It won't make the two of you a conventional couple. It will just make you miserable trying.

That doesn't necessarily mean you can't marry or cohabitate, but if you do, you have to do it on your terms. With plenty of personal space, too.

You might also find it a good relationship if you're working on a common cause together. Is there any cause that you both believe in, and are willing to work for?

Luckily just us being together is already unconventional so no need to do that...I will do my best to not impose any framework on this relationship and to let it be what it is. I'll also stick to my values as much as I can.
Still...That huge desire to settle down and build something lasting is just well..HUGE.

Common cause..We have some strange dream of humanitarian action regarding education systems. I also would like a business together or some project that is creative...See that is the issue! A lot of lofty ideas and in practice it all gets out of hand.

Would you advise doing any business together? Especially with those hard aspects to Jupiter in the Synastry? I would really like to try that.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Would you advise doing any business together? Especially with those hard aspects to Jupiter in the Synastry? I would really like to try that.

If you do business together, you'll have to be together all the time. Much more intensely together than if you were just business partners or just romantic partners. Many times more intensely than if you were just living together.

You already need so much personal space for both of you that living together is a challenge. It's already inadvisable that you consider any permanent arrangements before you've been together for a couple of years (considering the usual lifespan of relationships with Uranus-Venus). Having a business together would be an even bigger commitment than cohabitating.

So no, probably not a good idea. And then there's the way you described the relationship as having lots of ups and downs. That's not the kind of relationship you should have with a business partner. If ups and downs in your personal relationship spill over into your business relationship--and they will--that would be greatly detrimental to your business.

For a common cause, it would probably work better if you both join some kind of effort, so that you're in a bigger group than just the two of you, and the group's efforts don't depend on your relationship.
 
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wan

Well-known member
He is the Pluto rising one yes. I'll say anti-social personality, prone anger and to risk seeking.

This doesn't sound like mental illness to me, more like personality disorder (as someone mentioned). I dont know him well enough to tell you whether it's "ok" to marry him, but I honestly don't think stuff like that is a huge deal-breaker. A lot of people with questionable personality traits get married and manage to make it work.
 
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