A Planet's POSITION or LOCATION by HOUSE is STRONGER THAN RULERSHIP

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TRADITIONALLY POSITION IS STRONGER THAN RULERSHIP


example

Aries on 5th house cusp.
Jupiter in Aries.
Jupiter is much more important for the issues of the house
than the ruler Mars.

The house represents the beginning of a matter
the ruler of the house represents the development of the matter
a kind of middle point
and
the planet that rules the sign in which the ruler is placed
represents the end of the matter.


The planet closest to cusp is the most important in the house
and dominates the affairs of the house,
because of the rule
that position is stronger than rulership
unless the ruler of the house is also in the house.


Planets can do three things.
Planets can produce something,
Planets can deny something
or
Planets can destroy something once it has been
produced.




OMNISPHERICUS mentions
on DELINEATING NATAL CHART thread
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382268&postcount=8




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'.....The art of synthesizing chart factors
in the process of analysis
calls us to consider many factors

One of the most important is
the strength and dignity of the planets.

The 'benefics' are not constant sources of good fortune,
the 'malefics' are not always damaging

nor is it fair to assume that all planets express an equal importance
at all times...'

COMPLETE FREE GUIDE TO UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY STRENGTH
at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html




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JUPITERASC said:

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TRADITIONALLY POSITION IS STRONGER THAN RULERSHIP


example

Aries on 5th house cusp.
Jupiter in Aries.
Jupiter is much more important for the issues of the house
than the ruler Mars.

The house represents the beginning of a matter
the ruler of the house represents the development of the matter
a kind of middle point
and
the planet that rules the sign in which the ruler is placed
represents the end of the matter.


The planet closest to cusp is the most important in the house
and dominates the affairs of the house,
because of the rule
that position is stronger than rulership
unless the ruler of the house is also in the house.


Planets can do three things.
Planets can produce something,
Planets can deny something
or
Planets can destroy something once it has been
produced.


OMNISPHERICUS mentions
on DELINEATING NATAL CHART thread
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382268&postcount=8


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Click to expand...

Thank you for this, JA. Very interesting.
A clarification please.
You write:

Aries on 5th house cusp.
Jupiter in Aries.
Jupiter is much more important for the issues of the house
than the ruler Mars.

The house represents the beginning of a matter
the ruler of the house represents the development of the matter
a kind of middle point
and
the planet that rules the sign in which the ruler is placed
represents the end of the matter.

So you have


Going back to your example, is Jupiter in Aries what you are referring to as ruler of the house?

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That's a brief extract from OMNISPHERICUS thread
a thorough reading of the thead - titled DELINEATING NATAL CHART
provides more detail to my brief extract

i.e.

Omnisphericus wrote much more detail at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382268&postcount=8
as I mentioned previously

JUPITERASC said:

TRADITIONALLY POSITION IS STRONGER THAN RULERSHIP


OMNISPHERICUS mentions
on DELINEATING NATAL CHART thread
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382268&postcount=8



.

Click to expand...

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IleneK said:

Thank you for this, JA. Very interesting.
A clarification please.
You write:
Aries on 5th house cusp.
Jupiter in Aries.
Jupiter is much more important for the issues of the house
than the ruler Mars.
The house represents the beginning of a matter
the ruler of the house represents the development of the matter
a kind of middle point
and
the planet that rules the sign in which the ruler is placed
represents the end of the matter.
So you have

the house,

the ruler of the house and

the planet that rules the sign in which the ruler is placed.
Going back to your example, is Jupiter in Aries
what you are referring to as ruler of the house?

Click to expand...

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Thanks for the reference.


In wonder, JA, are you able to answer my question from all this information you are propounding?

IleneK said:

Thanks for the reference.


In wonder, JA, are you able to answer my question from all this information you are propounding?

Going back to the example you chose to cite, is Jupiter in Aries what is referred to as ruler of the house?​

Click to expand...

the example cited is OMNISPHERICUS personal choice
and the rationale is easily read on that thread
which I linked to for any interested readers
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=382273#post382273

Omnisphericus said:

7. Position is stronger than rulership.

Aries on 5th house cusp. Jupiter in Aries.
Juptier is having much more important for the issues of the house then the ruler Mars.

8. The planet in detriment can not produce effectively what it promise.


9.The house represents the beginning of a matter, the ruler of the house,
represents the development of the matter, a kind of middle
point, and the final dispositor, i.e. the planet that rules the sign in which
the ruler is placed represents the end of the matter.

10. The planet which is closest to cusp is the most important in the house and dominates the affairs of the house, because of the rule that position is stronger than rulership, unless the ruler of the house is also in the house.

11. Planets can do 3 things. They can produce something,
they can deny something, or they can destroy something once it has been
produced.

Click to expand...

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for beginners



"...essential dignities..." in astrology
looking in-depth at the categories of rulership
explores common misconceptions about planetary dignities, along the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDQiISa7SY

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Finding the Ruler of the Year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETAkGgqoEsI








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a lecture on the ancient method
of identifying
the overall ruler of a birth chart
called the Master of the Nativity
https://theastrologypodcast.com/tag/rulerships/



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Caring for Our Language
by Charlie Obert, October 2020.

....importance of language awareness in the world today.

It is a vitally important topic
we need to study it to stay sane
we need it to practice astrology effectively
– and, we need it to protect our political freedom
our ability to choose our own speech and thought
rather than have it chosen for us.

looking specifically at language and astrology
the importance of recovering traditional astrology language.
how our use of language shapes how we do astrology
Benefic and Malefic
....a comment I saw in an astrology discussion group on Facebook.
“Is benefic and malefic still the thing anymore?...”

I assume this comment came from a relative novice.
This statement assumes that the study of astrology is trendy
and that it changes with fads
you only study whatever happens to be IN this week
Being a serious long-time student of traditional astrology
I find that to be a mind-boggling concept.
https://studentofastrology.com/2020/10/caring-for-our-language/






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Each house has a SIGN
Impossible to have a planet in every house.
Having an empty House doesn't mean having no events signified by that house
i.e.
with no planets in an empty house
those areas of life
are addressed by the planet ruling the SIGN on that house

THUS
A planet can occupy a house
without having influence over the affairs of that house.

To get to know the HOUSE INFLUENCE
you look to the planet that RULES the house.
The ruler of a house
is the planet the rules the SIGN on the cusp of that house.
i.e.

The planet that RULES a house
is in charge of the affairs of that house
and is the manager of that part of your life.
When something goes wrong in the affairs of a house
the planet that rules that house takes action to address the problem.
And the way the problem is addressed
with that particular part of your life
is determined by THE NATURE of the ruling planet of the SIGN of that house


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to any interested beginners reading this thread
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=991407#post991407

greybeard said:

Houses do not rule planets.
Planets rule signs
and a sign ruled by a particular planet appears on the cusp of some house.
The planet that rules the sign on the cusp of a house is lord of that house, its ruler.
The ruler of a house has dominion over the affairs of the house
and of any planets found within the boundaries of the sign it rules.

Whether the ruler operates for good or evil depends on its conditioning
for which there are many measurements.



A planet in a house operates most strongly there
because directly,
although its behavior is determined by its ruler,
even though indirect.

Rather than "ruler"
we might say that the planet ruling the sign on a cusp "disposes" that house
and whatever it contains.

Houses are fixed in relation to Earth.
They are earth-bound, or mundane, and symbolize "surrounding circumstances".

Click to expand...

.


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Ancient Astrology ​

Vol.2 Demetra George. The Lord of a House ​

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Ancient Astrology ​

Vol.2 Demetra George. Outcome & Delineation of house topics ​

Chapters 82&83.​

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JUPITERASC said:

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TRADITIONALLY POSITION IS STRONGER THAN RULERSHIP

Planets can do three things.
Planets can produce something,
Planets can deny something
or
Planets can destroy something once it has been
produced.

Click to expand...

It's a shame more people don't understand that. On the 5th place it explains why some people never have children or their first born (if a planet indicates that) dies young, or the 2nd place why people have or don't have money, or squander what they have, and on the 8th place why some live longer than others or die violent deaths.

DC80 said:

It's a shame more people don't understand that.
On the 5th place it explains why some people never have children or their first born (if a planet indicates that) dies young,
or the 2nd place why people have or don't have money, or squander what they have, and on
the 8th place why some live longer than others or die violent deaths.

Click to expand...

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This is a good thread. While browsing, I wanted to distinguish something for everyone. Which is in the above posts there is a table of essential dignities according to Ptolemy in post #7, and (to my distaste) he does not use the Dorothean Triplicities, which are in post #10. Although this does not immediately apply to "a planet in a place being stronger than the lord" - I want to make sure everyone knows.
Having said that - Firmicus has a lovely analogy for this - being something to the effect of - the "management of an estate". Suppose you own a property - a beach house for instance. You are the Lord. And while you manage the affairs of the house - you are not in it. Some other body is in it. That other body is immediate - it is the one using the dishes and the laundry, it has the functionality inside the house. Unless you are in aversion, the other body may contact you, and you can manage their affairs from some other place. But the immediacy of the other body is the actual presence occupying the space.
The Lord may say - water the garden. The body is responsible for that.
Saturn - leaves the hose on and falls asleep
Jupiter - questions how much water is needed
Mars - waters too quickly
Sun - does not water
Venus - does just right
Mercury - may or may not
Moon - waters by night
This is not a quote btw, just my retelling.

*Morph* said:

This is a good thread. While browsing, I wanted to distinguish something for everyone. Which is in the above posts there is a table of essential dignities according to Ptolemy in post #7, and (to my distaste) he does not use the Dorothean Triplicities, which are in post #10. Although this does not immediately apply to "a planet in a place being stronger than the lord" - I want to make sure everyone knows.

Click to expand...

*Morph* said:

Having said that - Firmicus has a lovely analogy for this - being something to the effect of - the "management of an estate". Suppose you own a property - a beach house for instance. You are the Lord. And while you manage the affairs of the house - you are not in it. Some other body is in it. That other body is immediate - it is the one using the dishes and the laundry, it has the functionality inside the house. Unless you are in aversion, the other body may contact you, and you can manage their affairs from some other place. But the immediacy of the other body is the actual presence occupying the space.
The Lord may say - water the garden. The body is responsible for that.

Click to expand...

*Morph* said:

Saturn - leaves the hose on and falls asleep
Jupiter - questions how much water is needed
Mars - waters too quickly
Sun - does not water
Venus - does just right
Mercury - may or may not
Moon - waters by night

Click to expand...

*Morph* said:

This is not a quote btw, just my retelling.

Click to expand...