Antiscia
- Thread starter Olivia
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Spicadilly
Well-known member
Interesting, Tikana uses antisicia maybe she had something similar before.
I don't have a software to run chart so never look at it.
Do you always check this in horary? When a chart looks negative, can antisicia "save" it?
I don't have a software to run chart so never look at it.
Do you always check this in horary? When a chart looks negative, can antisicia "save" it?
Lilly used it; I prefer parallel of declination myself (which Lilly didn't use) but it is true that antiscia show something that parallels don't-viz, forces and influences underlying, behind or "causing" things seen in the "obvious" chart. I don't use antiscia in horary (except occasionally in medical horary) but do sometimes use it in astro-therapeutic analysis of natal, profected, SR and diurnal charts, and in decumbiture. I have only rarely seen a double antiscia conjunction and I have not read anything specific about such in the literature (at least the literature I have read over the years) I would think that in the case Olivia mentions it means that the Moon is behind the Jupiter influences of the chart and Jupiter in return is behind the Lunar influences of the chart: so which would be more influential behind the scenes?
That would, I believe, depend upon the relative strength of the two planets-the one with the greatest totality (essential and accidental) dignities would be the "primum"; if this chart is a current one, almost certainly the Moon would be "primum" because Jupiter is currently in a pitted degree and therefore its influence is "boxed" to a great extent (if Moon happens also to be in a pit, then I would take the double antisicia conjunction to be of very little influence)
Anyway, what I wrote is certainly not authoritative and is merely the way I regard this matter...
That would, I believe, depend upon the relative strength of the two planets-the one with the greatest totality (essential and accidental) dignities would be the "primum"; if this chart is a current one, almost certainly the Moon would be "primum" because Jupiter is currently in a pitted degree and therefore its influence is "boxed" to a great extent (if Moon happens also to be in a pit, then I would take the double antisicia conjunction to be of very little influence)
Anyway, what I wrote is certainly not authoritative and is merely the way I regard this matter...
BobZemco
Well-known member
I'm not sure I would characterize it as a "good sign."
The Sun's light striking a Planet casts a shadow. When a Planet is in a certain Sign, that shadow will fall in another certain certain Sign at a known Degree. That's the antiscion (the point opposite that is the contra-antiscion).
Before there was software (and before most people could afford it) we used to calculate charts and antiscia by hand. There are Tables of Antiscia all over the internet.
Like the saying, "What lies in the hearts of men? Only the Shadow knows" that's what antiscia are for (just look at some of the, um, "love" horaries -- antiscia are a great way to spot gold-diggers and trophy-hunters). The antiscia show people's true motivations and intentions. If the Quesited is a Matter and not a Person, it shows what's going on behind the scenes. In Mundane/Event Charts, the antiscia can show the true origin of something as well as things behind the scenes.
In lawsuits the antiscia can show you the real reason for legal action, does someone have something against you personally, is it a matter of law, are they seeking money, trying to recover damages/losses, trying to prove a point, is it a matter of Ego, or are they merely trying to enforce the terms of a contract or other written/oral agreement.
That's probably how dr. farr uses them in medical horaries. The antiscia might show the true origin or cause of the ailment, or perhaps where the true "cure" lies. For example a decumbiture might show bone fragments at C5/C6/C7 depressing the spinal cord to be only part of the problem and the real problem is blunt force trauma to the elbow, upper arm and shoulder caused by concussive blast.
Antiscia are Chart Points (just like the Asc, MC, Midpoints, Parts/Lots etc) and they give off no light, emanate no rays and have no energy. They are empty points in space with no physical definition, so they cannot cause things to happen nor can they "save" a chart.
The Significators conjunct the other's antiscia here might show they're "in tune" or that their goals are mutually supportive, but then if he has found his "trophy" and she her "money-pump" I wouldn't say that's a "good" thing.
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Mr. Zemco:
Yes that's how I use them in medical horary and decumbiture, and in helping to delineate other types of charts from the astro-therapeutic perspective.
Spicadilly:
I also agree with Mr. Zemco that antiscia won't help "save" a horary, because of the nature of what they are (which was well described, above, by Mr. Zemco) Parallels of declination are the potential saviors of a chart: say no (longitudinal) aspect (or conjunction) exists between querent's significator and quesited significator; that would be not too promising testimony-now we find that both significators are in parallel of declination: that is equvalent to a conjunction (many, like Alvidas, Carter, Ivy Goldstein Jacobson, considered it equivalent in strength to a partile conjunction) So suddenly what looked (by longitude) like a no-connection-between significators situation, is transformed into a conjunction of significators-quite a radical change in testimony!
There is a related defacto conjunction (described relative to horary by Ibn Ezra and other earlier authors) which also might "save" a horary: that is the "conjunction by diameter" (diametric conjunction) where the planets involved are in exactly the same degree of distance from the "Line of Justice" (the equinoctial axis) This is not similar to antiscia, because the antiscia is the "shadows" whereas here we are talking about a relationship of the "actual" (bodily) planets to each other, relative to the Line of Justice...
Yes that's how I use them in medical horary and decumbiture, and in helping to delineate other types of charts from the astro-therapeutic perspective.
Spicadilly:
I also agree with Mr. Zemco that antiscia won't help "save" a horary, because of the nature of what they are (which was well described, above, by Mr. Zemco) Parallels of declination are the potential saviors of a chart: say no (longitudinal) aspect (or conjunction) exists between querent's significator and quesited significator; that would be not too promising testimony-now we find that both significators are in parallel of declination: that is equvalent to a conjunction (many, like Alvidas, Carter, Ivy Goldstein Jacobson, considered it equivalent in strength to a partile conjunction) So suddenly what looked (by longitude) like a no-connection-between significators situation, is transformed into a conjunction of significators-quite a radical change in testimony!
There is a related defacto conjunction (described relative to horary by Ibn Ezra and other earlier authors) which also might "save" a horary: that is the "conjunction by diameter" (diametric conjunction) where the planets involved are in exactly the same degree of distance from the "Line of Justice" (the equinoctial axis) This is not similar to antiscia, because the antiscia is the "shadows" whereas here we are talking about a relationship of the "actual" (bodily) planets to each other, relative to the Line of Justice...
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BobZemco
Well-known member
Well, if you find anything, let us know. Lily is the first I know of to mention them. I have some stuff from Masha'allah and al-Biruni and they never mention them. Neither does Bonatti, so I'm not sure where they originated, but it would be nice to find out.
Gadbury also has a table and explains how to calculate them, but then he doesn't explain how to use them, and I don't remember seeing where he ever uses them. Lily lists them in a speculum for Primary Directions, but then never discusses them.
Well I'm not. I'm a veteran, but I was listening to Bobby Sherman records during the Vietnam War.
I think it was 1994 Astro-Services or whatever (they published a lot of astrology books and offered chart services) wanted $1700 for their software.
You can find open-source documentation on the internet. I was thinking about trying to talk some friends into making modifications. I like to progress the House Cusps, especially for Secondary Progressions and Solar Returns and none of the current software allows you to do that, so I still have to do that by hand. I use SolarFire and it doesn't always calculate the Hyleg correctly and I still have to jump through hoops to get the prenatal New/Full Moon to show up in a chart.
Culpeper
Premium Member
This should be favorable for the question if there are other supporting indications. I use antiscia and first found them mentioned in Firmicus. Antiscia points are favorable and contra-antiscia points unfavorable. The benefic or malefic nature of the planets involved must also be considered.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
theV
Well-known member
thanks but what is this for?
theV
Well-known member
what you said is so true
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The diagrams illustrate antiscia and contra-antiscia
'…4th century Roman astrologer Firmicus Maternus provides a detailed demonstration of antiscia in practice
but the technique and philosophy was introduced much earlier.
Firmicus states Hipparchus taught antiscia in 2nd century BC. Astrological texts of Manilius, Ptolemy, Dorotheus, Antiochus,
Palchus, Paulus Alexandrinus, et al discuss antiscia
Greek 'scia' means shadows.
'Opposite-shadows' or 'reflective-degrees' philosophy was belief each zodiac degree has its own counter degree
mirroring its distance from the solstice axis on opposite side of chart.
Solstice axis runs from 0° Cancer to 0° Capricorn;
so planet at 20° Sagittarius will cast its antiscion to 10° Capricorn, both planets being an equidistant from Sun's solstice point 0° Capricorn....' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/antiscia.html
'….Antiscion gives a notion of 'likeness'
based upon similarity of zodiac degree as it relates to rising times and equality of days and nights.
Contra-antiscia are based upon an inverse reflection
because days of one are mirrored by night of the other.
With antiscion a more immediately equivalent factor is involved;
contra-antiscion is an opposing principle
so the relationship is more difficult or antipathetic.
These philosophical principles tally with William Lilly's assessment: "as there are antiscia, which of the good planets we think are equal to a sextile or trine, so there are contra-antiscions, which we find to be of the nature of a square or opposition".....'
'….Lilly uses antiscia where they fall directly upon planet or house cusp,
but not where they fall upon the trine or square of planet or cusp as Firmicus did.
Other than the opposition, which reveals the contra-antiscion.
CHRISTIAN ASTROLOGY shows Lilly required an exact correspondence or very close orb,
with antiscia contacts to promising planets supportative,
but contacts with impeding planets as destructive
with contra-antiscia contacts judged less helpful.
e.g. Moon's conjunction with Ascendant Lord antiscion is a promising factor in life or death matters
Ascendant ruler's conjunction with antiscion of 8th Lord argues for death
as does the Sun's conjunction with antiscia of malignant planet....'
poyi
Premium Member
I had a thread explaining in Chinese system we have the same antiscia and contra antiscia system. Is greatly used with equally great importance. In relationship, antiscia shows great level of beneficial relationship/attraction as friends, family members, or in romantic relationship also. Contra antiscia very much as natural enemies.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=510596#post510596
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=510596#post510596
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theV
Well-known member
theV
Well-known member
The diagrams illustrate antiscia and contra-antiscia
'…4th century Roman astrologer Firmicus Maternus provides a detailed demonstration of antiscia in practice
but the technique and philosophy was introduced much earlier.
Firmicus states Hipparchus taught antiscia in 2nd century BC. Astrological texts of Manilius, Ptolemy, Dorotheus, Antiochus,
Palchus, Paulus Alexandrinus, et al discuss antiscia
Greek 'scia' means shadows.
'Opposite-shadows' or 'reflective-degrees' philosophy was belief each zodiac degree has its own counter degree
mirroring its distance from the solstice axis on opposite side of chart.
Solstice axis runs from 0° Cancer to 0° Capricorn;
so planet at 20° Sagittarius will cast its antiscion to 10° Capricorn, both planets being an equidistant from Sun's solstice point 0° Capricorn....' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/antiscia.html
'….Antiscion gives a notion of 'likeness'
based upon similarity of zodiac degree as it relates to rising times and equality of days and nights.
Contra-antiscia are based upon an inverse reflection
because days of one are mirrored by night of the other.
With antiscion a more immediately equivalent factor is involved;
contra-antiscion is an opposing principle
so the relationship is more difficult or antipathetic.
These philosophical principles tally with William Lilly's assessment: "as there are antiscia, which of the good planets we think are equal to a sextile or trine, so there are contra-antiscions, which we find to be of the nature of a square or opposition".....'
'….Lilly uses antiscia where they fall directly upon planet or house cusp,
but not where they fall upon the trine or square of planet or cusp as Firmicus did.
Other than the opposition, which reveals the contra-antiscion.
CHRISTIAN ASTROLOGY shows Lilly required an exact correspondence or very close orb,
with antiscia contacts to promising planets supportative,
but contacts with impeding planets as destructive
with contra-antiscia contacts judged less helpful.
e.g. Moon's conjunction with Ascendant Lord antiscion is a promising factor in life or death matters
Ascendant ruler's conjunction with antiscion of 8th Lord argues for death
as does the Sun's conjunction with antiscia of malignant planet....'
thank you very much
theV
Well-known member
The contra antiscion vertex could mean enemies
theV
Well-known member
I've done some of example of Ansticia/Natal connection.for instance,let's take Marilyn Monroe who lived an unstable life filled with changes and upheavel.
In her chart,the antiscia of her pluto/node is in a conjunct to her sun/mercury explains why she went so many crisis in her life and so many changes,she suffered from sexual abuse and power struggle with men and she was known with her connection with powerful people symbolized by the pluto/node,reading her journal she had deep thought and intelligence that was hidden underneath the fake persona(pluto),maybe writing was regenrative to her.
Her Antiscia Mc is in her natal AC and vise versa,explains the use of appearance for the adventage of one's career,she was an actrees and to rienforce this she had natal neptune conjunct antiscia mc and antiscia neptune conjunct natal asc.
edit:I think the MC/AC connect in antiscia/natal founded in famous people chart,muhamed ali has it he have antiscia mc and mars conjunct the asc
In her chart,the antiscia of her pluto/node is in a conjunct to her sun/mercury explains why she went so many crisis in her life and so many changes,she suffered from sexual abuse and power struggle with men and she was known with her connection with powerful people symbolized by the pluto/node,reading her journal she had deep thought and intelligence that was hidden underneath the fake persona(pluto),maybe writing was regenrative to her.
Her Antiscia Mc is in her natal AC and vise versa,explains the use of appearance for the adventage of one's career,she was an actrees and to rienforce this she had natal neptune conjunct antiscia mc and antiscia neptune conjunct natal asc.
edit:I think the MC/AC connect in antiscia/natal founded in famous people chart,muhamed ali has it he have antiscia mc and mars conjunct the asc
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theV
Well-known member
Isn't the contra antiscion of the vertex is anit vertex could that mean the anti vertex means enemy?because I have met a lot of gemini who turned up to my enemy.nice avatar pretty creepy artistic