Will my marriage survive this?

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scorpio81

Well-known member
Hi,
I dont want to start off sounding like I'm looking for sympathy, but I'm at my witts end & just need some insight if possible. I'm going through the roughest patch of my life (& I've been through a lot!)...a friend of mine suggested I join this community, so here I am.

I'm not sure what info you need, but here is my birth info:

Birthdate: 11/2/81 Time: 1:06am (EST) Location: Teaneck, NJ

Just some info regarding my current circumstances...my marriage is falling apart. There was infidelity involved on my part, nothing physical. It was via text (sexting & photos). We are in counseling, when we can afford to go or when my husband is willing to go. He says he loves me, and I know he does. But he doesn't know how to get past this incident. We have had some very rough times since this was revealed. I just don't know if I'm going through some kind of transit or what. Or when or if it'll improve. Sometimes I am willing to fight to make this work, but other times I think he's better off without me Divorce is on the table...because this situation is much more complicated. It's a life lesson for sure. But I can't see that 12 yrs together & 4 yrs of marriage was meant to come to this!

He is a Libra, if that helps any.

Thanks in advance.
 
AstroLogical

AstroLogical

Well-known member
So sorry to hear/read of your heartache and difficult period in your relationship. It should go without saying that all relationships end, one way or another. Recognizing the timing is always the challenge. Death is point blank obvious. Everything else lies somewhere in the "gray zone." Yet when our actions lead an obvious trail to the results at least a cause/effect can be traced and hopefully lead to some understanding and possible conclusions. With your Scorpio Sun within a degree of mine I can feel a kinship—both through empathy and experience—having survived the ending of relationships myself. The question I would ask or more importantly, have you ask yourself is, what restlessness within yourself or within the relationship led you to the "infidelity?" In the scheme of things your infraction was minor yet does speak to intent of heart. So, what is that all about? A gal (or guy) with Mars on her ascendant often projects a certain sexual energy that can be misunderstood—especially by a partner. Is your man a bit jealous anyway and you wanted to use this chemistry to ignite some fire in the relationship agin or was this simply about exploring your own fantasies?

Yes, you have some transits going on. Neptune is dancing on your Descendant, opposite your Ascendant and Mars... all of which contributes to the fantasy nature of Neptune's allure as it ties into the raw sexuality of Mars. I'm actually surprised your transgression did not turn physical. Perhaps you got busted before it turned down that street. Also at play, although in the passing phase is Uranus squaring your Moon, which followed the opposition of Uranus to Saturn and Mercury. Pluto transiting conjoined your moon would have also been in this general time frame. Not knowing "when" all this took place I imagine it is something that has played out over the past year or more—which would include the transits I have referred to. Also at play, during this same period, though moving on now, has been Saturn transiting your Scorpio Sun. Here we have the consequences of what has taken place and the weight of the entire relationship atmosphere. Like a fog that will not lift it hangs heavy... all the time.

With natal Saturn in your second house, leading the pack of 4 planets in Libra, I'm led to recognize "Values" are an important part of this life's curriculum. Saturn is calling you to raise the standard of your value structure with Mercury, Jupiter and Pluto there to insure you have ample experience in this area of life. As you experienced your Saturn return a few years ago I would imagine the deeper message carried now by Saturn to your Scorpio sun, some 2-1/2 years later, has brought home the message of your karma—for good, ultimately. We do learn best when we stumble.

I'm intrigued as to how you came to get caught. A Scorpio that gets caught usually wants to. Is this somehow a bit of revenge for feeling ignored? Did you feel the 12 year old relationship was being taken for granted? I really think you need to bore down to the core of this question and the answers you find will either help bring renewal to your marriage or a reason to let go.

I would add, if there is evidence now your husband's motive to hang on to your "wrong" is to hold power over you through guilt then it's not a good sign. Often these kinds of situations can dredge up a power struggle that has been covered beneath the mundane and the breach in confidence only pushes it to the surface. Following, the couple sort of remains locked in limbo in a power struggle with no winners; all the while calling it a marriage. At that point, it's not.

Transiting Neptune will be in your 7th House for quite some time and the idealism of relationship will meet the illusion on more then one occasion... in the years to come. This can include thinking, finally all is well with you two only to find one little suspicion triggers an avalanche of all past hurts. This transit period can also include any close relationship, etc. but here, now, we are working with your marriage. More the exception, this transit can provide contact with spiritual teachers, depending on your focus during this time.

You have some time to go before this plays out. I hope that by your omission of mentioning children, there are none... the little ones always create a major dynamic in these situations. My sense is that this will take a year or more to sort out. Not having your husbands chart creates a blank spot in this evaluation. In a year+ transiting Saturn will reach your 4th House and hopefully you can take advantage of the renewal of that period—either within the marriage or starting new. In either case there will be a turning of the page.

Noting your Venus Neptune conjunction in your natal chart, I hope you are finding some artistically creative channels to express your "blues" during this time. With Mars conjoined your Asc. I would think dance would be very good for your soul.

It may be hard to believe but trust the process and suffer through. Perhaps accepting an attitude of "non-expctation" would be most beneficial now. If you are hanging on to the marriage it may be coupled with fear, guilt and a lot of confused emotions that aren't healthy for a marriage. Wiping the slate clean and starting over also hold some attraction for you... to just let it all go away... But, if you do what Scorpios do best and channel your energy inward—while still mindful of your partner—to a place of stillness, and peaceful acceptance that what is best for you both will follow in its own time—if you step back and let it unfold, I have no doubt you will live to love again. A wound will not heal well if you are ripping the bandage off all the time. By stepping back from expectations which often have complicated motives you allow for the potential of what is true and good to emerge. This takes time and discipline. It is so human to get in our own way and attempt to "make" things better. This is a time to "allow" things to get better. But do not resign yourself to living in a marriage where the past is always a suspicion away. THAT is not worth hanging on to.

Good luck, sister Scorpio
A*L
 
R

rahu

Banned
hi scorpio81

your chart shows the nodal axis square to your jupite/pluto conjunction.
the nodal axis will conjunct your pluto/jupiter on june27 '14. it is difficul to see the marriage last beyong this date in lew of what you have said.
i think a composite chart would be clearer on this point.

continuing with your chart you have a severe problem with emotional and sexual intimacy as there are many indications you had a severely abusive childhood.
rahu
 
S

scorpio81

Well-known member
@rahu

Thank you for your response. I am working off of my.cell phone & cannot attach a picture/link. I've tried doing a composite chart but once I do it, I can't upload it.

Can I provide my husband's info to you instead?
If so, here it is:

Date of birth: October 13, 1978
Place of birth: North Bergen, NJ
Time of birth (not 100% accurate): 10:30am EST

Can you explain the nodal axis conjuncting my Pluto/Jupiter a little more? What does that entail?

What in my chart indicates the problems with emotional/sexual intimacy & an abusive childhood?
 
S

scorpio81

Well-known member
@AstroLogical

Let me start by saying Wow...thank you so much for taking the time to read my chart & provide me with such detailed information. I greatly appreciate your time, fellow Scorpio :)

This may have been my own exploration of my sexuality...I never thought of my marriage lacking in that dept, but I have always had insecurities & never felt good enough. Perhaps that played a role subconsciously. I know I have issues of my own, that I need to harness & dig deep to figure out. And I'm trying.

You are right...this started in the summer of 2013...I was caught in Nov. To make matters worse, this is so much more complex because not only did I do what I did, but then I was dumb enough to get my husband a job working with this man. After befriending him & becoming close he started suspecting something was off. And now here we are :(

I do not think I wanted to get caught...no way. I was actually so caught up in it that I truly believed that I could get away with it. I believed it wholeheartedly! It was the first "obsession" or "addiction" I've ever fell prey to. I liked it. Though knowing it was wrong the entire time. That's not me...the person who did this is the farthest thing I've ever imagined lied within me. My family & friends are in shock too. I was the epitome of a "goody two shoes."

I can see where values would be a lesson learned. I'm not so sure about karma, for good though. That's hard to see at this point. I took a very loving, caring, affectionate, confident man & destroyed every ounce of anything he had. I'm not an evil person, but what I've done, the lasting effects are those of an evil person. It's very hard to live with myself. Seeing the pain I've caused on a daily basis is punishment in itself. And knowing I put him in that working environment (I truly had nothing but good intentions, it wa too good of a job opportunity to pass up) where he has to constantly be reminded that this man (& maybe others!) have seen his wife & read the words that came out of my mouth. I hate that I've put him in this situation & this position in life.

I can see the guilt being held over me...and I've sort of accepted it because as you said, there is idealism going on too. We have amazing days where I can see us working through this, then others I can't. It's such a trying time, I have no idea where to begin. He's all I've ever known, I DO love him very much & he loves me which is why we are still hanging on & trying our best to make it work. Knowing it may take yrs & that it may never be the same again. It's more of a personal battle at this point...I've never had to "fight" for anything in my life...I'm quick to give up/give in. So I want to be able to say I gave it my all without any regrets (aside from destroying my marriage!).

You were also right in assuming there are no kids in this equation. As for hubbys chart, I have provided his info in my previous comment. (His birth time is not 100% accurate).

I look forward to Saturn in my 4th house for a time of renewal, I just can't see myself lasting another year or more like this. It's a daily struggle...some days worse that others, some amazing! As for channeling my inner (Scorpio) stillness/acceptance & allowing things to happen on their own time, that's nearly impossible with a Libra as your partner! We try as a couple to make things better...we have actually seen an improvement in certain areas of the marriage too. So despite the pain & deceit there is still love & a willingness to make this work. I try to remind myself that he's still here & that says A LOT! Sure a clean slate is very appealing to me...I'd love to run away from time to time. But then I remember the love that still exists. If there were no love this would be an easy decision...but its still there. Though at times I feel I've done nothing but bring him heartache & hold him back in life & that he's better off without me. He just hasn't come to accept/realize that yet because I am his whole life. Which hurts me even more to know I've ruined the image of the "angel" he married.
I hate to think fate, the stars, God, whatever you believe in; , brought us together just for me to destroy him like I have. That's the hardest thing to understand...what was the point of this relationship?
Artistic creative channels...funny you say that because the last two wks I've been feeling the need to find a "outlet", one that doesn't involve being an infidel. Such as painting. Dancing sounds fun too though! :)

I can feel your kinship just through your comment to me...I just want to say thank you again for taking the time to talk to me & read over my chart. You have provided me with greater insight than I hoped for!

Hope to talk again soon,
Scorpio81
 
M

may28gemini

Well, this isn't astrological, but I think it might be useful to suggest... have you thought about physical separation for some time so you and him can sort things out on the individual level? Clear judgments are arrived when there's less tension. No two marriages are the same.

My marriage didn't survive but it wasn't due to infidelity. We separated to have some time to think on our own and it helped...but the decisions we came up lead us to split. The time we had separated helped us cool off on our own individual terms and I think overall, it had happened because if it didn't happen now, it would happen in the future.
 
S

scorpio81

Well-known member
Hi, i have actually thought of that. I've even gone as far as leaving, but came bk home that same day. He has not once agreed with those terms, he thinks time apart will only do worse for us. At times, he wants me gone (when he's going through an emotional bout), others he can't bare to lose me.

As a Scorpio, I like my alone time. So I'd be the first one to leave, I just don't have the guts/strength/courage to, just yet. I want to give it my all so I can say I tried.

I think time apart would be ideal, but so much more goes into that...financially, emotionally, mentally. Ugh...its so stressful.

Thank you for the advice though! It's a daily struggle of what to do :-/
 
M

may28gemini

I absolutely understand the daily struggles you're touching upon. Yes, everything is tied together and emotional tides are riding high and low, which doesn't help much. It's very difficult to know who's coming or going at this point because, you're in the wrong, you've admitted to him you're in the wrong, but he's still understandably upset.

I suspect the root of the matter is the doubt that was experienced in the marriage, doubts about being each other's all and one and only. The disruption of harmony is extremely difficult for those with Libra energy to get pass, not just Libra Sun.

For some reason, I'm thinking of the film Inception. Maybe this doesn't help... or it could give some insight. I think of the relationship Cobb had with his wife. They dreamed together and built many things together for years and years and then, one day, he experimented and placed a doubt her mind which caused her to doubt her own existence and committed suicide. The power of what doubt can do...
 
Marinka

Marinka

Well-known member
I might suggest that you post your chart with transits, progressions, and solar arc. There are instructions in the "Read my chart" section of this forum.
 
S

scorpio81

Well-known member
@May28gemini

I haven't seen that movie but by your description, I can definitely relate to the power of doubt. It's awful.

And I definitely don't know whether I'm coming or going...every day holds a new challenge. You'd think it would get easier! Time heals all, right?! Not necessarily!

I understand his pain, fear, doubt...I'd feel the same way in his shoes. I've been doing everything I can to help mend this. I have very poor communication skills (verbally)...which is a very big reason I'm in this predicament. I am realizing that now. But this situation has forced me to face that fear & to grow as a person & hopefully save my marriage in the process.

The stars really dished me a doozy! (I know, I know, I did this to myself!)
 
S

scorpio81

Well-known member
Not sure I did this right...but this is as best I can do (for now). Please note: Person 2's time of birth is not 100% accurate.

Here is the composite chart of Toni Ann, born November 2, 1981, at 01:06 AM, Teaneck (Bergen), New Jersey, United States [74.00W ; 40.53N] and Daniel, born October 13, 1978, at 10:30 AM, North Bergen (Hudson), New Jersey, United States [74.00W ; 40.48N]

Position of Planets:

Sun 29°49' Libra

Moon 12°04' Aquarius

Mercury 25°04' Libra

Venus 9°30' Sagittarius

Mars 11°38' Libra

Jupiter 15°32' Virgo

Saturn 27°52' Virgo

Uranus 22°07' Scorpio

Neptune 19°34' Sagittarius

Pluto 20°49' Libra

Chiron 14°34' Я Taurus

Ceres 29°45' Scorpio

Pallas 6°42' Scorpio

Juno 24°49' Sagittarius

Vesta 8°02' Sagittarius

Node 26°04' Я Leo

Lilith 15°35' Libra

Fortune 0°45' Gemini

AS 17°20' Libra

MC 22°33' Cancer
 
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S

scorpio81

Well-known member
Assuming this will help too...

Here is the composite chart of Toni Ann, born November 2, 1981, at 01:06 AM, Teaneck (Bergen), New Jersey, United States [74.00W ; 40.53N] and Daniel, born October 13, 1978, at 10:30 AM, North Bergen (Hudson), New Jersey, United States [74.00W ; 40.48N]

List of Aspects:

Mercury Conjunction Pluto Orb 4°15'

Sun Conjunction Mercury Orb 4°44'

Mars Conjunction AS Orb 5°42'

Mercury Conjunction AS Orb 7°44'

Sun Conjunction Pluto Orb 9°00'

Mars Conjunction Pluto Orb 9°10'

Venus Conjunction Neptune Orb 10°04

Pluto Square MC Orb 1°44'

Mercury Square MC Orb 2°31'

Jupiter Square Neptune Orb 4°02'

Venus Square Jupiter Orb 6°02'

Sun Square MC Orb 7°16'

Moon Trine Mars Orb 0°25'

Uranus Trine MC Orb 0°26'

Moon Trine AS Orb 5°16'

Neptune Sextile Pluto Orb 1°14'

Venus Sextile Mars Orb 2°08'

Neptune Sextile AS Orb 2°14'

Moon Sextile Venus Orb 2°34'

Saturn Sextile MC Orb 5°18'

Mercury Sextile Neptune Orb 5°29'

Saturn Sextile Uranus Orb 5°45'

Mercury SemiSquare Venus Orb 0°34'

Sun SemiSquare Jupiter Orb 0°42'

Moon SesquiQuadrate Saturn Orb 0°47'

Venus SesquiQuadrate MC Orb 1°56'

Venus Quintile Saturn Orb 0°22'

Uranus SemiSextile Pluto Orb 1°18'
 
AstroLogical

AstroLogical

Well-known member
scorpio81 said:
@AstroLogical

Let me start by saying Wow...thank you so much for taking the time to read my chart & provide me with such detailed information. I greatly appreciate your time, fellow Scorpio :)..........

I do not think I wanted to get caught...no way. I was actually so caught up in it that I truly believed that I could get away with it. I believed it wholeheartedly! It was the first "obsession" or "addiction" I've ever fell prey to. I liked it. Though knowing it was wrong the entire time. That's not me...the person who did this is the farthest thing I've ever imagined lied within me. My family & friends are in shock too. I was the epitome of a "goody two shoes."
Click to expand...

scorpio81 said:
I can see where values would be a lesson learned. I'm not so sure about karma, for good though. That's hard to see at this point.
Click to expand...

scorpio81 said:
I can see the guilt being held over me...and I've sort of accepted it because as you said, there is idealism going on too.
Click to expand...

scorpio81 said:
You were also right in assuming there are no kids in this equation. As for hubbys chart, I have provided his info in my previous comment. (His birth time is not 100% accurate).
Click to expand...

scorpio81 said:
I look forward to Saturn in my 4th house for a time of renewal, I just can't see myself lasting another year or more like this.
Click to expand...

scorpio81 said:
Though at times I feel I've done nothing but bring him heartache & hold him back in life & that he's better off without me. He just hasn't come to accept/realize that yet because I am his whole life. Which hurts me even more to know I've ruined the image of the "angel" he married.
I hate to think fate, the stars, God, whatever you believe in; , brought us together just for me to destroy him like I have. That's the hardest thing to understand...what was the point of this relationship?
Click to expand...

Scorpio81
I have quoted a few lines from your lengthly letter back to me, to us... I just want to touch on a few items. I maybe a bit random so I hope you can track my thought. Though I didn't quote your line referring to you inability to verbally communicate, I do want to encourage you to attempt to dialogue with your husband using written words. You do well this way, from what I can tell so far. You actually write complete sentences and seem expressive and sincere. Perhaps you can supplement your verbal communication by sharing an open journal with him of your thoughts and feelings. After all, typing on the computer got you into this, maybe it can help get you out ;-)

..."wanting to get caught" In this I am referring to a subconscious need to "reveal" yourself—your true self. You see we are conditioned to "be good" and disown our dark side. So we drag it around with us—because it is part of who we are—yet attempt to deny it exists while always trying to behave and fit social expectations. In a way, a painful way for both of you, you have let your dark side out to be exposed and even still you are trying to disown it by pulling a blanket of guilt over you. This may seem tragic in the most apparent way yet in the metaphysical sense you, as an individual, must confront the real you in honesty and acceptance before you can truly evolve spiritually. And your hubby's evolution must come from learning forgiveness. Perhaps he will "own" his dark side more readily because of this matter as well. We do learn from others, you know... BTW, he does have a dark side as well... just so you don't feel alone. Both owning your complete Self and forgiveness are absolute necessities for personal spiritual evolution and healing this matter. Therefore, you can both choose to remain in a matrix world of denial or you can come clean and in so doing, the karma I referred to becomes earned credits rather then demotion and failure. It's up to you. This concept I'm trying to illustrate is difficult to do in written words but I hope you will chew on this bone a while and perhaps reach the marrow of what I am trying to express.

The guilt, both personal and that which is held over you, is all part of the denial process—denial of your dark side and denial to accept forgiveness over guilt. If he accepts forgiveness and you accept it as well, there can be no guilt. You then refuse to live in the shadow of the past and only hold in your mind the present and potential of the future. YES, I'm referring to a very ideal situation yet what is the alternative? Would you both prefer to live in a gray zone of falling in and out of love over this matter repeatedly for perhaps years to come? I think not. This transition is a matter of decision by both of you as to what kind of relationship you want from here on.

As for a composite chart... the uncertainty of his birth time lowers my confidence in using this tool. True, some facts are solid but I find the House structure in a composite chart to be very important and without accurate birth times this paints a less reliable picture. I do find some revelation in the synastry, however. The mutual Saturn influence of both one to the other is notable. His Saturn conjoined your Ascendant and Mars—Your Saturn conjoined his Sun, Pluto conjunction. Everything about this crisis smacks of Saturn's weight and the karma (past and being created). It is imperative that you both transcend the negative side of this—even if you go your separate ways. Otherwise, there will be a long dark cloud over this relationship for its duration—even apart. Saturn does offer the potential to evolve to a higher state but it will take a full surrender and lots of forgiveness. That is the change of structure Saturn will demand for this relationship to thrive. The ability or inability to take the high road is a key indicator of each ones state of spiritual evolution... as in, If God can forgive, why are you both having a problem here? This challenges your believe and faith, doesn't it?

To be or believe you are someones "whole life" holds an undue risk and responsibility. It does not seem balanced nor healthy in my "as is" understanding of your statement. By nature this kind of relationship is a setup for a fall. It says to me, you have been placed and accepted a rather elevated position which has been idealized perhaps unrealistically—and of course you have proved that in your cyber fling—you are not worth of such exaltation. Who is? Anyone sitting on a throne eventually falls off or is dethroned. To some degree I'm led to believe something would have eventually taken place to "normalize" this relationship and bring it back to earth. Don't misunderstand, I DO believe a husband and wife should hold each other in the highest regard but as one's, "whole life" this is handing over a great deal of power not intended for another.

The more I chew on this and look at the charts I am more convinced this was a logical consequence (all be it cosmic logic) of your combined chemistry and destiny. There is a theory that we make "Soul Contracts" before entering the material world to be honored or not with particular individuals with whom we will eventually come into contact with in life. Parents, siblings, spouses, etc., are some of the major players in these Soul Contracts. In all cases it can be argued that the ultimate intent is to serve, support and lift each other toward a higher Divine vibration. Although in most cases the traditional signs of love and support are not obvious in what you seem to have brought upon your relationship, sometimes destruction is part of the Divine plan and the Phoenix must have the opportunity to complete it's cycle and be reborn from its own ashes. Again, to salvage this relationship, finding purpose in the lessons of this experience is critical. This is instrumental to a rebirthing process. Otherwise you are back to denying and disowning your dark side—unable to forgive or accept forgiveness—remaining in regret, guilt and suspicion. To not recognize the value of failure is to fail again. This is part of owning your dark side.

So, sister bug, you have your work cut out for you. There's just no way around it, this is going to take time. Try my suggestion of journaling with your man. Write it down and share it with him. Spoken words evaporate so easily. Written words hold form for reflection. Pour it out and then let it go. It may seem you have initiated this matter but at this point you each hold a 50/50 part in what you do with it. Accept your responsibility but don't become the martyr. And by all means, yes, paint and/or dance but find a way to let it out and cleans your soul. God does not intend for you to live in a dungeon of guilt and regret. Why should you? Rekindle your faith and light the fire so the Phoenix can rise. There is no where else to go but onward.

Lovingly, A*L
 
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