The Future King of Great Britain

piercethevale

Well-known member
So appropriate, the Asc. being the 28th degree of Scorpio...
From Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala"

SCORPIO 28*
"THE KING OF THE FAIRIES APPROACHING HIS DOMAIN.

KEYNOTE: The capacity in man to recognize and to pay homage to an integrating Principle at the core of all existence.

This rather peculiar picture tells us perhaps a good deal about the limitations of the mind of the clairvoyant who saw it, though it can be related to the symbolism of the various creatures of a spirit world mentioned in some alchemical and Rosicrucian books. What seems to be implied is that beyond both outer nature and the realm of the proud ego, a spiritual world exists to which the intuitive consciousness of man can pay allegiance. In that world, all manifested entities are seen as multiple aspects of a central Power and Consciousness. It is such a central principle of unity that human societies have sought to revere symbolically in human, all-too-human kings. In an individual sense, this principle is the Self.

This is the third stage in the forty-eighth five-fold pattern of symbols. It adds a new dimension to the two preceding ones. At this stage the presence of a spiritual unifying factor begins to be sensed by the individual perhaps weary of the outer shows of his culture. An INNER ALLEGIANCE begins to polarize the consciousness."

It's A Boy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Z4atC9Atc
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
The lads 12th house cusp by Sabian interpretation is His answer to what he [eventually will] sees as the greatest problem the world faces. That is represented by the 11th degree of Scorpio.
[ibid.]

SCORPIO 11*
"A DROWNING MAN IS BEING RESCUED.

KEYNOTE: The deep concern of the social group for the safety of individuals.

This symbol should be interpreted as revealing the basic feeling of relationship between the individual and his fellow-men. What is pictured is the expression of this relationship rather than the experience of the person who, carelessly perhaps, ventured too far beyond his depth and then was given a 'second chance' to live. A man risks his life to save another: this is love, based on a sense of responsibility produced by a vivid sense of interrelatedness. Sustained by this love, the individual may be more secure in venturing forth; but this assurance can also lead to unwarranted daring and trust.

This is the first stage of the forty-fifth sequence of five symbolic phases. It pictures the concern of the social whole for any one of its parts, even if this concern is merely the spontaneous act of rescue performed by a chance bystander. The HUMANITARIANISM thus displayed has deep cultural roots."

[....somehow, I know that Arthur is pleased.]
...Long live the future King!
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
His Desc. the "WHERE-TO" of His chart axis is the 28th of Taurus.
[ibid.]

TAURUS 28*
"A WOMAN, PAST HER "CHANGE OF LIFE," EXPERIENCES A NEW LOVE.

KEYNOTE: Man's capacity to rise in consciousness and feelings above biological limitations.

After having stated the youthful and the aged approach of the human individual to the use of what his culture has brought to him, the symbolism stresses man's capacity to rise above the limitations which both biological nature and the 'normal' social pattern of behavior have tried to impose on him. As in many of the preceding symbols, a 'woman' is pictured, because at this early stage of the cyclic process the individual consciousness still has a receptive or 'feminine' polarity — as was indicated in the very first symbol of the entire cycle (Aries 1°).

Whenever this third stage of the twelfth sequence is brought to a person's consciousness, the indication is that he or she should freely open his or her mind to the possibility of always new REBEGINNINGS. Ideally, the new beginning should imply a more mature response to the new possibility of experience."

...that the Part of Fortune is the 26th degree of Taurus is an auspicious sign! It will add it's symbolism in a fair amount of influence...thus it's symbolism being representative of the attitude or action [or both] that he can best employ to fulfill His dharma ...succeed at achieving the transition of from "WHO" to "WHERE-TO" by what is indicated as "HOW" at the M.C. [unless He becomes a man only interested in the mundane affairs of living, in which case one must look to the Sabian Symbol for the I.C. for that.....but somehow I believe I know He need not concern himself with any of that.]
[ibid.]

TAURUS 26*
"A SPANISH GALLANT SERENADES HIS BELOVED.

KEYNOTE: The ritualization of individual desires.

At this level we see the play of collective values as they affect the individual person and indeed confirm his individuality by giving it a solid basis in a tradition. The individual is still attached to these group-values; he "belongs." Nevertheless, this state is necessary for a safe and secure sense of differentiation within an enfolding whole. Music and the culturally acceptable rituals of love are cultural products, yet each person can use them for the spontaneous fulfillment of his very own desires.

This is the first symbol in the twelfth five-fold series. It reveals the individual human being making use of his personal status to find fulfillment and a sense of social identity. This is ROLE-PLAYING in its most enjoyable form."
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
A chart interpreted for someone that is making the effort for spiritual evolution [as I'm pretty sure this lad will be of that nature] the Mid Haven is symbolically interpreted as "HOW" one is to make that transition from the symbolic "WHO" to the symbolic, "WHERE-TO"... for the Prince, that is the 21st of Virgo.
[ibid.]

VIRGO 21*
"A GIRL'S BASKETBALL TEAM.

KEYNOTE: Physical training as a means to inculcate the feeling of participation in a collective culture.

Basketball presents an interesting symbol. The ball must be thrown into a narrow opening high above the head of the player. The ego-consciousness (the ball) must be driven upward to a focal point or circle that is ready to receive it. In a sense, this parallels what the boy on the merry-go-round (Virgo 6°) can do if he succeeds in penetrating the ring with his stick, but there are notable differences. Here the players operate as a team; in the original formulation of the symbol there was no reference to two teams and thus to the competitive character of the game. What should be stressed here is the formation of a group acting as an organic whole and training itself to operate in a social context.

This is the first stage of a second-level sequence of five symbols, as was the symbol of the merry-go-round. A definite type of educational activity is implied with cultural, and as well emotional, overtones. It implies the training for GROUP INTEGRATION of 'girls,' i.e. of a type of consciousness more specifically receptive to collective forces."

...it's all adding up to be a the basic psychological makeup of someone well suited for the role he, most likely, will have to assume one day. [imho...of course!]
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...and the Nadir, the I.C., is symbolically the "WHY", He will need to get to "WHERE-TO" by the means that the M.C. is symbolically requesting [I'd say demanding... but this is a future King... Who am I to say that the Cosmos may make demands upon Him?]

This is symbolically given through the 21st degree of Pisces.
[ibid.]

PISCES 21*
" UNDER THE WATCHFUL AND KIND EYE OF A CHINESE SERVANT, A GIRL FONDLES A LITTLE WHITE LAMB.

KEYNOTE: Growth in consciousness in its earliest tactile awareness of the wonders of unsophisticated living.

This symbol recalls the one for Phase 174 (Virgo 24°) — 'Mary and her little lamb' — but it occupies a different position in the five-fold sequence and a new factor is added: the 'Chinese servant.' According to the occult tradition, the original Chinese race was an extension of the humanity (or "Root Race") preceding ours — thus the stress upon the biological factors of family and ancestors,[Italics and underlining for emphasis is my doing... ptv] and also on the dualism of the Yang and Yin interplay. The 'Chinese servant' represents the past as a servant of the new evolution. (The 'white lamb' suggests the sign of all beginnings, Aries.) This new evolution is just about to begin during the late Pisces phase of the year cycle. It is as yet an ideal, a white loveliness. The girl discovers the new feeling of the touch of wool and of animal warmth. The preceding five-fold sequence began with a symbol suggesting the inspiring revelation of new truths or facts which the creative person is seeking to formulate. Now we witness another kind of discovery — a sensuously emotional discovery, perhaps a presentiment of the mother-feeling.

This is the first symbol of the seventy-first sequence. It brings together past and future, an overlapping of levels. The Chinese kindly watching the white girl; the girl fondling the white lamb. There is charm and ingenuousness in the scene — a vision of WHITE HOPE, a hope for a future that can only be felt, almost naively."

May I use the words [ somewhat] of Mr. Rudhyar, here, that I believe sums it up very nicely?

"A Hope for the future"!​
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I' a bit worn out and weary today ...so just to conserve time and energy, I'm copying and pasting what I posted at the recognized, living, world authority on the Sabian Symbols, Lynda Hill's, facebook page as to some, further, observations on this chart of the young Prince.

...as follows...

I don't try to 'force feed' any of my personal astrological beliefs on anyone Lynda...and I think you know me well enough by now to know that. But I would like to point out that this child has Jupiter in the same sign and degree of the natal chart I believe is that of the USA [a zero hour chart, folks, for those that wish to know what I'm talking about. 12:00:01 a.m July 4, 1776, Philly]

That same chart has Venus @ 02* Cancer 14', I.C. @ 11* Cancer 44' and Sun @ 12* Cancer 38'. The USA chart also has a Capricorn Pluto, @ 27* 34' and notably the USA Part of Bankruptcy is @ 19* Libra 18'.

The thing that has got me, a bit, very much intrigued though, is that the chart of a certain historical figure from a time about 2000 yrs. ago that I believe in, has the North Node @ 13* Scorpio 18'.

[I too have been getting an impression of a reincarnation of someone of the Royal family. But also, someone, of great antiquity. That 'King of the Faeries' thing and the legends about Glastonbury, being what as to whom I am alluding to.]

[follow up post, to Lynda]

I forgot to mention that his Part of Fortune is the exact opposite sign and degree as that for that same USA chart, too.

[and another, follow up post]

...and an Asc. the same sign and deg. as the USA natal Part of Delusion [Asc. Neptune - Moon] which I have no observational exp. with..and don't know that should even be the title of influence of the formula...but I thought I'd just'put it out there', so to speak.
 

rahu

Banned
hi
this is off subject but i was wondering if you ever looked at the chart for the period when the sabians symbols were received in trance.

rahu
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I have derived what the lads Part of Hyleg is.
09* :gemini: 10' 18".
[ibid.]

"AN AIRPLANE PERFORMING A NOSE DIVE.

KEYNOTE: A superior ability to challenge nature and play with danger.

Through the controlled use of mental powers man is able to challenge the most basic force in nature: gravitation. He enjoys playing with it as a lion tamer with his violent animals. But what he challenges is within himself as well as outside. Gravitation is the universal binding force of the material world. By challenging it man prepares himself to pierce beyond the physical and to reach higher realms of existence. He may lose the struggle, but that prospect makes the effort more exciting. He might gain 'immortality.'

This is the final stage of the fourteenth sequence. The symbol for it has a strong sense of finality. No possibility of half measures exist. Man is committed irrevocably to success or failure — at least as a conscious and self-reliant mind. The alternatives are clear-cut. One may describe it as MIND vs. MATTER, or as Man's will against the fate that gravitation so aptly symbolizes."

I'm attaching the chart for the Hyleg event as well as that for the birth, which I didn't do yesterday as I figured that everyone had cast, or acquired, one for themselves, but I wish to be thorough.
 

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piercethevale

Well-known member
Whoops!
I apologize, Rahu, that isn't the thread i was looking for, that one is an analysis of Elsie's natal chart.
I'll try to get to it in a bit... I'm still dealing with last years operation and must attend to certain priorities.


Still can't seem to find it... oh well, maybe later.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I've been studying this chart some more...got a lot to mention, but it'll have to wait. I've got too much on my plate as it is...a few neglected threads that i promised myself I was going to finish up with.

But, I do have to mention, as there are so many connections between his chart and that I believe is the natal of the USA, that his Part of Soul/Spirit is @ 28* Taurus 53' and that is conjunct the Part of Hyleg of that USA natal chart.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I should have noticed and now need to clarify a point, I was alluding to in post #6 above, that the 20th degree of Libra, which is conj. the Part of Bankruptcy of the USA natal chart I use, is the lads 11th house cusp.
As the 11th house is the 'House of Friends', and as I see a great potential for affinity between the Prince and the United States, that might be interpreted to be indication of assistance from Great Britain in the future if the U.S. finds itself in such a position [and hopefully not a situation, that I believe we are about to have to face here in the States, that will last the next 50, or so, years.]. Possibly it should be interpreted quite literally...or even in both ways.
As the Sabian Symbol for the 20th degree of Libra is:
[ibid.]

"A RABBI PERFORMING HIS DUTIES.

KEYNOTE: The ability to draw on the power of an ancestral tradition in order to serve and inspire one's fellowmen.

Here we see at work the constructive use of rather rigid yet effectual sociocultural and religious patterns. The energies of the collective Unconscious are channeled through well-defined, age-old forms and formulas. This implies limitations and the possibility of sclerosis or inertia when confronted with new situations, yet there is beauty and wisdom in such a ritualization of behavior and of thinking.

This is the fifth stage of the fortieth five-fold sequence. At this stage the relation of man, the individual, to his community — and beyond it, the universe — is seen in stabilized and effective operation. INHERITED WISDOM can be focused through a person who accepts its limitations."

As I have only looked at the chart axis, a couple of other house cusps and a little more than just a dozen Astrological Parts, I find to be of particular interest of this degrees' symbolism, Rudhyar's interpretive analysis the "Keynote" statement, "The ability to draw on the power of an ancestral tradition in order to serve and inspire one's fellowmen." for reason that I've already encountered this precept in a noticeable number of the aforementioned.
 

kimbermoon

Well-known member
Thanks for posting the nativity for the future king. Sorry, I know that you are busy but how do you think the current Mystic Triangle [Grand Trine] in the heavens represents the significance of his role in life? Also what is symbolized by the last degree of Cancer for his Sun? Your insights are honoured...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
hi
this is off subject but I was wondering if you ever looked at the chart for the period when the sabians symbols were received in trance.

rahu

I will make another attempt to look for the thread I wrote about that.
I was a bit occupied with following up on another thread this eve, that got way more involved than I thought I was going to allow myself at the onset.

Unless, I dreamed that I wrote it, it is in this forum somewhere.
[and I believe you'll find it pretty interesting as the month and year that is given, if instead be the following year...WOW! ...what aspects to Elsie's natal chart for just such an endeavor! As Marc Edmond Jones certainly couldn't have been a slouch at Astrology, I do wonder why he didn't wait until the following year...?]

p.s. maybe he thought that Elsie being of the poor health, I've read accounts of, that he shouldn't wait until the following year. In retrospect, I think they did quite well, although Dane Rudhyar felt it necessary to slightly 'tweak' a couple/few of the symbols and do a complete makeover on a couple of others [it may have been a couple more, I've never done a, 'Let's sit down and go over them all, one by one', complete analysis.] and I've mentioned a number of times that I find it very odd that Dane did those complete makeovers on the very symbols that I would have, if not for the changes Dane made, otherwise missed the, very profound, significance of.
Aquarius 30* being the prime example of that.

I know it's not at all proper to make such judgements on people and especially the dead, as they cannot speak in defense of themselves, but I sometimes wonder if Marc faltered, stumbled a bit, on his dharmic path. When Dane discovered that Marc was altering a few of them from what Elsie had described [it took Dane awhile too, as at first he was awed by them and knew them to be 'The Real Deal', but eventually noticed a few that didn't fit the sequence, the process of transformation, that He saw the symbols as.] He sought out, and found, that Elsie was living in San Diego and at that time Dane was in Los Angeles. He made the drive down there, and visited her, and from what I have been able to gather, without Marc's permission or knowing about it. When, he met Elsie, he asked her if she could remember the exact descriptions of the symbols, as she had given them to Marc, to which Elsie answered she could do better than that....Marc had let her keep the cards he had written the descriptions on, all 360 of them. Dane immediately saw that Marc had changed some to fit a theory he must of had before Elsie's day of divination, or wanted to promote, regardless of her descriptions. That seems to me to be a man that hadn't matured enough spiritually to handle, to be in possession of the Sabian Symbols [if they are the real McCoy, that is...and I know they are...Dane saw it...why didn't Marc? Or did he think that they were just a bunch of fluff but that he could somehow use them anyways...or did he, like Dane later on, perceive some as needing a 'tweaking' and actually thought he was improving their legibility? What ever the reason, Marc wasn't quite worthy. ...IMHO...of course...]

If you read between the lines in the accounting of Dane's history with the symbols in his book on the symbols, I think you'll see what I believe I saw and then deduced. That he had Marc in a tight jam...why else would Dane start publishing his interpretations at the rate of three or four symbols a year in the mid 1940's ...as that would've taken at least 90 years to publish them all. I see it as Dane 'playing poker' with Marc and Marc eventually folded. Why do I think so? Because, according to Danes account Marc not only approved of Dane writing his version of interpretation of the symbols but graciously gave Dane his blessings to alter any as Dane saw fit to not very long after he hadn't published any descriptions for a number of months, breaking the pattern of regularity at which Dane was publishing them, one at a time. It probably took a few months of negotiation before Marc is on the record for giving his consent and blessing.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
And yet no one I know of caught on to this, or at least hasn't said so to my knowledge.
Yet the two of them have appeared to everyone to have been in good stead with one another.
... NOW, THAT'S CLASS, OLD SCHOOL!
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Thanks for posting the nativity for the future king. Sorry, I know that you are busy but how do you think the current Mystic Triangle [Grand Trine] in the heavens represents the significance of his role in life? Also what is symbolized by the last degree of Cancer for his Sun? Your insights are honoured...

Thanks, but a good as I believe I am at interpreting aspects, I know that there are astrologers way more qualified at that.
Considering how much respect I have [even though I am a Yank and one descended from Quakers fleeing oppressive conditions in England in the 17th century] for the Royal family, I don't have that audacity to do so.

I might make an observation or two...sometime, somewhere down through time...but right now. I'm bowing to the more qualified. But do know [if you don't already] that I find some techniques of 'Traditional Astrology' to be very questionable, if not outright wrong. I will just bide my time and see how it all goes down... and even then, if I do, I know I'll draw the wrath of, a fair number, of those that are British subjects among the astrological community...especially of the "Lilly Camp"... tis verily a mind ****, if you don't mind my saying it so crudely?
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I did find something in the chart, that I have a strong hunch, no one else might catch on to.
I gave that observation to Lynda Hill this morning, as I feel she is the one to interpret it, being as accomplished as she is in both using Sabian interpretation and 'Trad. Astrology' techniques. ...and it may be something altogether of no account?

What the heck, I might as well spill it [as Dane wrote.]

"LEO 30° AN UNSEALED LETTER.

KEYNOTE: The realization by the individual that all thoughts and all messages are inevitably to be shared with all men.

Coming as it does as the end of this tenth scene and linked with the last degree of the zodiacal sign, Leo, this symbol seems at first quite puzzling; when it has been thought of as an isolated symbol, its essential meaning has not been apparent. The fact that a letter is unsealed does not imply a trust that other people will not read its contents, but rather the idea that the contents are for all men to read. The letter contains a public message in the sense that when man has reached the stage of true mental repolarization and development — which we see in the very first symbol for Leo — he has actually become a participant in the One Mind of humanity. Nothing can really be hidden, except superficially and for a brief time. What any man thinks and deeply realizes becomes the property of all men. Nothing is more senseless than possessiveness in the realm of ideas. If God speaks to a man, Man hears the word. Nothing can remain permanently 'sealed.'

As this thirtieth sequence of five symbols ends, it is made clear to us, and particularly to the inherently proud Leo type, that all that takes form within the mind of a man belongs to all men. Communication and SHARING must always prevail over the will to glorify oneself by claiming sole possession of ideas and information."


One of Lynda's facebook friends, noted that the lads chart is so chock full of interplay that the only thing missing was a YOD. I don't know if many of the members of this forum, know that I consider the Quintile YOD to be the true "Finger of God" , and not the sextile based one.
Why?
Because a Sextile YOD is based on a "Grand Semi Sextile Matrix"... which is a perfectly symmetrical twelve point matrix.
The Quintile yod, though, is based on a ''Grand Semi Quintile Matrix"... which is a perfectly symmetrical ten point matrix.
How many fingers do you have and how many do you think God has?
We are created in Gods' image, are we not?

So I went looking for any possibility of a Quintile YOD,. That is two influences in Quintile aspect with another influence in opposition to the midpoint, the semi-Quintile point, between the first two. I didn't find any of that but I did find that the Sun is in bi-Quintile to Neptune on one side of a hemi circle and that Waldemath's Moon is Tredecile to both the Sun and Neptune on the other side.
But here's a gasser, I hadn't noticed this morning [as I had been staring at it too long and needed a break] and only just now noticed that Uranus is semi-Quintile to Neptune and Tredecile to the Sun and bi-Quintile to Waldemaths' Moon... Geeez-zuz....wow....:andy::sideways:
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
This is reminiscent to the matrix that I discovered in Clarisse's natal chart [my clairvoyant friend] which I dubbed the 'Clairvoyants trine', and subsequently found one of a similarity in Elsie Wheeler's natal chart.
I'm going to have to look up that thread I titled as such [the clairvoyants trine] and Elsie's chart, because, offhand, i can't quite recall those configurations...but even if this one is dis-similar to either of those two... it's still something to not just toss off as some innocuous oddity... IMH, but somewhat experienced, O, of course.

NOW THAT, I WILL WRITE ABOUT!

..but, later on...it's nearly 1 a.m. here and I've had a long night already.

...thank you for the 'prodding', kimbermoon!:wink::smile::joyful::biggrin:
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
Okay...
Here's the skinny on Clarisse.
The 'Clairvoyants' Trine', she was born with is; Sun in Aquarius Bi-Quintile Uranus in Gemini, Uranus Tredecile Neptune in Libra, Neptune Tredecile Sun.
...so, this is also Sun, Uranus and Neptune but with the addition of Waldemath's Moon !

Elsies chart is coming up next...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Well, I apologize again, Rahu, the thread I was looking for is that one here in this same sub-forum. I was in a hurry the other night and took it to be something else. As it turns out [as I didn't recall so correctly as I thought] no actual month and day was ever given but I do expound on what I believe are the obvious choices that Marc had to chose from.

here's the link.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60334

...and there are some connections I saw immediately to this lads chart...did you already know that and were toying with me? if:surprised::annoyed: so, good for you... as it was good for me too...to review, and discover, that is...:tongue::rolleyes:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
It's late, I'm tired...here's Elsie's chart... the notable aspects are notated on the chart itself... tough luck, if ya ain't a member of the forum.... Faccia Tua!:kissing::lol:
 

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