Finding your mother in your natal chart

Often it is said that the Moon represents the mother...but I believe that traditionally, in order to find the planet that signifies the mother, we need to look at a couple of things. To find the Almuten (or planet representing) of the mother, several members here (BobZemco, and Roy, most recently) have suggested that we need to look at the ruler of the 10th house, the ruler of the Lot (or part) of the mother (ASC+Moon-Saturn? found at this calculator http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php) or Venus, and determine which planet has the most dignity (I suppose per Lily's table, found here? http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html#liltab ?) My question is this...

What if, in looking at one's own chart, Venus is found to be conjunct within a degree the Lot of the Mother? Would that change anything?

Going by my personal horoscope: I have the 10th house, which is Aries and the planet Venus right in the Medium Coeli or on top/facing up! To have a Moon plus Sun in Aquarius, Cancer rising and Saturn in Virgo, it comes to show that explains my timid but vital role my mother played in this early 30-something year old male (LoL). Furthermore, her solar sign is Taurus on the 11th house...and my ruling planet Uranus in Scorpio : things can be complicated.

Mother can be associated with the 4th house of the horoscope from Ascendant and the Moon..

Vedic uses the reverse of our Western for house significations relative to father/mother (they use 4th for mother and 10th for father, although there is a large body of practitioners who use 9th for father) They have, however, like Western astrology, always given the Sun to the father and Moon to the mother (as planetary significators).
Me? I have been satisfied with our usual house allocations (4th father/10th mother)
But in horary, etc, I use the Lot of the Mother in preference to 10th house significator or to the generic mother significator, the Moon(if the question is about the mother, ie, if the mother is the primary quesited)

Happy New Year Tamara.

May I ask if the comments posted are applicable to your family charts?
(sid/trop)

What do you think Eminem's 10th could be?
Born Marshall Mathers III,17 October 1972,Kansas City,no time.

Hope you and your family are well.

J.R.R.

dr. farr said:

Vedic uses the reverse of our Western for house significations relative to father/mother (they use 4th for mother and 10th for father, although there is a large body of practitioners who use 9th for father) They have, however, like Western astrology, always given the Sun to the father and Moon to the mother (as planetary significators).
Me? I have been satisfied with our usual house allocations (4th father/10th mother)
But in horary, etc, I use the Lot of the Mother in preference to 10th house significator or to the generic mother significator, the Moon(if the question is about the mother, ie, if the mother is the primary quesited)

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In my son's chart my sun sign rules his 4th house, and his dad's sun sign rules his 10th .

astrology is symbolic.. the symbols can change depending on who is doing the astrology.. whether it connects to the chart is up to the person learning astrology to decide..

i tend to think of seeing the parents in my chart a few different ways.. feminine planets - moon and venus as having a connection to women in general, and sun and mars and saturn has perhaps having more of a connection to men in general.. this isn't foolproof.. the midheaven axis - 10th and 4th houses, signs capricorn and cancer always seem to have a connection to parents... there is different thoughts about whether the 10th or 4th connects with the father or mother and i have read literature that goes both ways.. what i have never read is making a distinction between the same sex parent, or opposite sex parent in connection to this.. my own thinking is that the 4th represents the same sex parent, but i am sure this isn't consistent either...

the other area to look is the rulers of the midheaven axis for more clues in your own chart.. those planets may in turn be ruled by other planets and perhaps you will discover something in this process..

another way to consider the question if you are old enough to do this is to look at important transits or directions at the time of either parent dying.. this may strengthen a particular way of seeing what the astro symbolism for one of the parents might be..

in my own case i have a conjunction of my moon to my dads sun.. this plays into the vedic theme of father as 9th house, as moon rules my 9th house... my mom has a moon conj to my mercury and sun which happens to be the 10th house ruler regardless the house system.. perhaps doing some synastry between your chart and your mom and dads chart will point in one direction or the other..

i have always seen the 4th as my dad and 10th as my mom which goes with the idea of parent of opposite sex as 10th.. also i have moon/venus in a hard aspect pattern with pluto/jupiter which certainly fits with the way i perceived my mom too, so i believe i can see my mom using these symbols as well.. ultimately the symbols aren't so much about them as they are about me, but that idea takes some time to come to terms with as well i suppose..

i also wonder of the role that sect might play in all this too, but have never read anyone discussing this in relation to how one's mom or dad are represented using sect as a guideline.. these are some of my thoughts on the topic..

In my opinion, 10th House denotes the mother and 4th denotes the father. Moon for the mother, Saturn and sometimes Sun for the father.

frank, i like the simplicity of your approach..

The 4th house is the father, the opposite of the 10th. I thought Leo the sign of fatherhood represents an influential role depending on the house in ones' natal chart. Now in my chart: Libra with the (dwarf) planet Pluto and poses a risk of personal and marital conflict involving ones' father.

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worrybean said:

i
my mother was libra; in my chart, libra is in my 4th (father) & 5th house, which is apparently affiliated with Leo & Sun, both affiliated with father. i have Pluto 3° Я Libra in 4th house and Uranus 20° Я Libra in 5th house.

in my 12th house i have in my sign (Gemini): Sun (father) at 8° and Saturn (father) at 23°, and between those two are (my) Mercury at 18° right beside Venus (mother) at 21°. To me this reflects father overwhelming/squeezing my relationship with my mother.

then, i have in my 10th (mother) house Pisces, with Mars (masculine) at 15° & Midheaven at 13°. just beside this, my father's sign Aquarius straddles my 8th & 9th houses, again squeezing up beside what should be mother's area of representation.

finally, between mom's libra in 4th/5th houses & dad's aquarius in 8th/9th houses, i have my true lilith 26° Я Sag in 6th house & true north node 9° Я Cap in 7th house. dad is almost cap, b/d is jan.21.

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Hello worrybean, I want to make a suggestion to include Chiron on your charts and examine the powerful Moon-Chiron conjunct/aspects about your relationship with your Mom.

Feel free to check out my star chart and give me your opinion based on the results, in regards to my relationships with my parents. In addition to the Sun and Moon share the same sign: Aquarius and 5 degrees apart in my birth. Would there be some friction and conflict with my family because of this incident? The next day there was a total solar eclipse!

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...325247734&hsy=-1&smon=1&nhor=4&go.x=26&go.y=8

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JerryRR said:

Happy New Year Tamara.

May I ask if the comments posted are applicable to your family charts?
(sid/trop)

What do you think Eminem's 10th could be?
Born Marshall Mathers III,17 October 1972,Kansas City,no time.

Hope you and your family are well.

J.R.R.

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Thanks for the New Year blessings, and to you as well.

Roy said:

hi snoopy, when you judge a chart you should ask questions first then look at the chart for answers.

You have keep in mind that Ptolemy only used one Arabic part, the Lot of Fortune, he didn't use the Lot of Mother, Father, or whatever. The Persians did that.

Venus Conjunct er.. note when Lily says "Conjunct" he means aspect, so to him Trine, Square, Opposite, etc.. means Conjunct to him. When we say Conjunct, he words it as "joined by body" or you know how we use it, Conjunct.

Anyways, when the Lot receives aspects it either inhibits or strengthens it's condition (the Lot), you would have to look at Venus itself, so is it in Sect, does it aspects beneficial Planets, correct term, is it Peregrine?

If Venus is strong, then it would be beneficial for the Lot.

hmm, I don't use Arabic Parts, I follow Ptolemy so I only use the Lot of Fortune.

To find your mother in a Natal Chart, you look at the Moon and Venus, but again don't look at Venus and the Moon just yet, ask questions first.

So if you want to judge her riches, there's a way to do that.
The length of her life whether short or long, there's a way to judge that.
If you wanted to know how she would die, again there's a way to judge that.

It's not hard, but if you don't understand the terminology your getting to be scared and quit.

I'll give an example another time, in the mean time,

Here's a link to Ptolemy's judgement of Parents:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3A*.html#4

The real book is 500 pages long. Its the bible of Astrology

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Thanks, Roy, I went back and re-read the chapter in Ptolemy on parents. I noticed he gives the Moon and Venus for the mother. I am unclear what he means when he writes of the "attendants" of the luminaries. It appears that the attendants are planets in the same sign (note he does not say "house") or the next following. However, he goes on to say that if the luminaries are unattended, and "hold no connection with the planets..." Does this mean make no aspect?

Regarding Venus with Part of the Mother in my case, Venus is ASC ruler (in fall tho) and now joined with PoM. Interesting to note that my mother is financially unable to support herself, and so has lived with me for the last 17 years or so.

CapAquaPis and worrybean, thanks for your thoughts here. I see CapAquaPis concurrs with giving the 4th to the father, while worrybean gives it to the mother?

May I <gently> suggest that if we want to consider Pluto and Chiron in regards to parents that a new thread be started in the Natal astrology forum?

i'm sorry tsmall,
i thought i could get clarity on why my mom is in dad's house & vice-versa, wasn't challenging the wisdom of 4th for father at all, & was given the understanding there was some info on mom in chiron. in any case i'm sorry for the misunderstanding & wish you the best,
worrybean

worrybean said:

i'm sorry tsmall,
i thought i could get clarity on why my mom is in dad's house & vice-versa, wasn't challenging the wisdom of 4th for father at all, & was given the understanding there was some info on mom in chiron. in any case i'm sorry for the misunderstanding & wish you the best,
worrybean

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worrybean, don't worry. I saw earlier that you made a post in the RMC forum, I believe? There is a member here, R4VEN, who has extensive knowledge of Chiron. Perhaps a pm directing her to your thread would help? No misunderstanding at all, this is a new subforum (traditional astrology) so I expect that there will be a little confusion about what constitutes traditional methods.

As far as which house represents father/mother, I am intrigued by sandstone's post about the 4th representing the parent of the same gender as the native. I am still learning just about everything, so I don't know if there are sources for this idea or not, as from Ptolemy (referenced by Roy, above) it appears that he does not say which house would be involved.

In my case the 10th house represents my mother.


-mother is a Gemini Sun, Virgo Moon, Sagittarius Asc, and Jupiter in Pisces.
-father is a Sagittarius Sun, Gemini Moon, Sagittarius Asc, and Jupiter in Capricorn.

My 10th house is in Virgo with the Sun and Mars there, and Mercury in Libra.
My 4th house is Pisces, empty with Neptune in Capricorn. Neptune is also ruled by Jupiter.

mother is more mercury than my father so she fits in my 10th house.

father is more jupiter than my mother so he fits in the 4th.


My Moon in in Taurus.
Mother doesn't has any Taurus. Just her Mars, and it doesn't has any strength in her chart. Her Venus is in Cancer placed in her 7th gives her some strength.

Sun is in Virgo aspecting Mars and Uranus... it doesn't fit with my father.

Direct and to the point.