Sympathy between hour ruler & asc. ruler?

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Thanaterus

Member
Ok, I have another question. I've been following William Lilly's advice about strictures, and have discarded any charts where these strictures are present. My question concerns that stricture which is present when the planetary ruler of the hour does not match the ascendant's natural ruler, triplicity ruler, or is not of the same element.
What I've noticed very quickly is that, with this stricture in place, way less than 50% of charts cast will be readable. If Cancer rises, you've got only a 2 in 7 chance of a readable chart, for example.
My question is, how many of you actually use this stricture? Having perused the forums, many seem to ignore it. Just wondering whether or not this is something I can abandon without it seriously hurting the reliability of my charts.
 
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Olivia

Well-known member
It's not a stricture, it's a consideration, and a hugely important one. But on this forum, it's largely ignored - I almost never see anyone post the planetary hour of the question.

The idea is that if you have a planetary hour match, the question is radical because you have the sympathy of heaven to answer it. That's from authors like Sahl and Bonatti, so I tend to take it quite seriously in my own practise. You can still interpret if the question isn't radical, but in that case the heavens may not be sympathetic to your query.

There are virtually no radical charts on this forum, sadly. If you ask it then you need to be the astrologer - but often that's not the case here. Most people ask and don't interpret much, if at all, making the astrologer who sees and understands the question first and offers interpretation the de facto astrologer (which means they should do up a chart for the time and place they were at when they read and understood the question!), so I don't hold out much hope. If you ask it yourself, you need to be the de facto astrologer and do the better part of the interpretation, or you've automatically invalidated your own chart. The question is 'born' when it's asked and undertstood both, so....

Or the question is too trivial to be a true horary - 'will he text me this morning?' is just impatience - wait a couple hours and you'll know.

I do try to use the place for practise. I'm not in the habit of answering many horaries here because it's not fair to paying clients, but I like to keep track of the few charts we get that do have outcomes to see what can be gleaned from them.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Olivia's answer is, of course, absoultely correct (as always); however, I myself never use the planetary hour consideration in horary or astro-therapeutic, nor was it mentioned by old time horary authors (Al-Biruni, Al-Kindi, Ibn Ezra, nor in what I learned about the "Ankara" tradition); planetary hour consideration was a big deal in electional work, from the most ancient times.

The problem with the planetary hour consideration, which we face today in the modern world, is that all of our time-guides are based on standard (conventional) time parameters, rather than real Sun/Cosmic time (called local apparent time): prior to 1800, the old time astrologers didn't have this problem because their sundials and connected water-clocks were always based on real (Sun/Cosmic) time. Today when you look at the time of sunrise or the time of sunset, that time (the beginning of the first day or first night planetary hour) could be off by as much as 16 minutes (too early or too late) from the real Sun/Cosmic time! What does that do to the planetary hour situation? Well, unless you correct for local apparent time (Sun/Cosmic time) by using the Daily Sun Data tables (available on the internet), you will often have the wrong planetary hour for your given time (such as the time of the horary question or the time of the electional act) So, if you do decide to give attention to planetary hour correlations in horary, so as not to fool yourself, adjust the time to the real time (Sun/Cosmic time) in determining the actual planetary hour...
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
Olivia

I do press attention to radicality of the chart. If the Asce ruler/triplicty does not match the hour ruler, I tend to find those questions to be more in a rush asked vs having a serious need for an answer. Having said that, if there is no hour agreement

I do not know if you read the horary i posted on skyscript about the gig/job. The chart wasnt radical BUT it was fit to be judged because the planets told the story.
From my own experience, if the chart is not radical (absense of a planetary hour agreement) I find those charts hard to read or i end up sketchy / foggy / contradictory /questionable chart planet positions.

so it is easier to read a radical chart vs not-radical one

cheers
T


Olivia said:
It's not a stricture, it's a consideration, and a hugely important one. But on this forum, it's largely ignored - I almost never see anyone post the planetary hour of the question.

The idea is that if you have a planetary hour match, the question is radical because you have the sympathy of heaven to answer it. That's from authors like Sahl and Bonatti, so I tend to take it quite seriously in my own practise. You can still interpret if the question isn't radical, but in that case the heavens may not be sympathetic to your query.

There are virtually no radical charts on this forum, sadly. If you ask it then you need to be the astrologer - but often that's not the case here. Most people ask and don't interpret much, if at all, making the astrologer who sees and understands the question first and offers interpretation the de facto astrologer (which means they should do up a chart for the time and place they were at when they read and understood the question!), so I don't hold out much hope. If you ask it yourself, you need to be the de facto astrologer and do the better part of the interpretation, or you've automatically invalidated your own chart. The question is 'born' when it's asked and undertstood both, so....

Or the question is too trivial to be a true horary - 'will he text me this morning?' is just impatience - wait a couple hours and you'll know.

I do try to use the place for practise. I'm not in the habit of answering many horaries here because it's not fair to paying clients, but I like to keep track of the few charts we get that do have outcomes to see what can be gleaned from them.
Click to expand...
 
DiDi

DiDi

Well-known member
My question concerns that stricture which is present when the planetary ruler of the hour does not match the ascendant's natural ruler, triplicity ruler, or is not of the same element.
Click to expand...

Can someone tell me please what is a planetary ruler of the hour?

I just thought it meant
say a chart was asked where scorpio rises on 15 degrees and so we look at mars to see where it is.. if we see it placed at 15 virgo or pisces does that mean the same thing here?
I somehow think its not lol which i why im asking for a example please as id also like to know more about this.
thanks:joyful:
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
No: the planetary ruler of the hour is calculated from whatever planet rules that day of the week: that planet rules the first hour, then the next planet (following the Chaldean Order of the planets) rules the next hour,. and so on: say its Monday: the Moon rules the first hour after sunrise; Saturn rules the next hour (following the sunrise hour), Jupiter rules the hour after that, then Mars rules the hour after that, and so on; most practitioners divide up the day between sunrise and sunset, with day planetary hours and night planetary hours (this was introduced around the 8th century) The ancients divided the entire 24 hours (going from sunrise to sunrise), which was approved of as being the correct method as late as the 11th century by Al-Biruni; I too follow this latter method, although 99% of those who use the planetary hours (for elections, or in horary, and in esoteric workings) follow the former method of dividing into day hours and night hours.
 
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DiDi

DiDi

Well-known member
thanks dr farr for answering me.

Is there a chart around or its by familiarity for people who just know it?
thanks again
 
T

Thanaterus

Member
Thanks everyone. I suppose I will keep to my rule of only interpreting radical charts, if only because I'm just beginning and such charts really do seem to be easy to read.
Not to plug one of my own threads, but I was disappointed that no one commented on the chart I posted. The chart in question was radical, and I did offer my own (probably error filled) interpretation.
As an extra bonus, the question the chart answers has nothing to do with romantic relationships.
 
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